Terrorhuz.4695 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said: Pretty sure the only thing to do is delete the entire defense traitline if you are also running spb. If you are going with a FC cd increase to do anything, it will have to be something stupid like 20+ sec baseline, 15+ traited. And even then with the options you have in defense you can still build very tanky, but dagger leaps will still hit like a truck. Not a problem with dagger leaps hitting like a truck, just the unblockable one needs to be easier to differentiate from the blockable one; a good audio queue, or a white flash on the hand, would go miles in that direction. But dagger is a damage weapon, it's supposed to deal damage. Remove that, and you're left with virtuoso dagger (thanks S*lar, how are you? Hope you are having a nice time wherever you are now but please don't kittening come back). Defense being defensive is fine to me, I guess. Full counter on 20s cd would be the way to go with me, and I made that suggestion before (20s cd and the counter window goes from 2s to 1s; if it is procced the cooldown goes back to 10s or whatever it is now. The idea would be that a skillfull usage of FC to prevent an incoming threat is rewarded, but it's easier to whiff and if it does you pay penalty). Edited January 9, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said: Full counter is the problem and the only thing I'd touch because I do not wish for other warrior builds to be nerfed just because of spellbreaker. Not a fan of the stab either, but I'll wait to see how it turns out. *aside: We can agree to disagree on things without calling them random kittens okay. I'm not here to disparage you, your gameplay, or your concerns, but to get to the root of what is the issue so that Anet touches the one thing that needs to be touched.* FC is the conduit that most of your issues run through. There is a CD reduction bug that all the warriors are pointing too. Let's focus on that and see where things are eh? That one change would be a 15% reduction in effectiveness on all the things you are talking about, which is more than a mere shave. Stalwart Strength was an interesting choice for them to make certainly. But, like I have said before, Warrior is a primarily melee class, which means it needs the tools to get into and stay in melee. Movement skills and Stability are the two most important tools for that. I think most warriors really want a viable ranged weapon to deal damage with that isn't a meme so that we don't have to rely so much on some of the things you are complaining about, but that was Anet's design decision for warrior. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said: Full counter on 20s cd would be the way to go with me, and I made that suggestion before (20s cd and the counter window goes from 2s to 1s; if it is procced the cooldown goes back to 10s or whatever it is now. The idea would be that a skillfull usage of FC to prevent an incoming threat is rewarded, but it's easier to whiff and if it does you pay penalty). The proc window is 1.5 sec. Double FC CD with the first traitline in defense would be for me. Anything else is gonna wreck the dagger/gs str build and will make sure you can only play defense spb (which IMO will still need nerfs). And honestly I have 0 wish to go from being allowed to play exactly 1 build, to being allowed to play exactly 1 other build (where the only difference is defense replacing strength). Edited January 9, 2023 by Hotride.2187 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said: NGL, I do think this propaganda that some 1.75s more cd on FC are changing everything is wishful thinking. It'd be better than now, don't get me wrong, but it's not going to solve anything. Spellbreaker is not even the worst thing in sPvP right now. Versatile Power is the only real issue here. If Warrior gets any other nerfs, then Teleports, Shadow Steps, movement speed creep, Stealth, Immobilize, AoE vomit, condition vomit and ranged damage all are in dire need of extensive shavings as well. As long as any of these are allowed to remains as over-bearing as they are now, Warrior has a right to excel, too. 1 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noneHotBuildTest.7251 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said: Spellbreaker is not even the worst thing in sPvP right now. Versatile Power is the only real issue here. If Warrior gets any other nerfs, then Teleports, Shadow Steps, movement speed creep, Stealth, Immobilize, AoE vomit, condition vomit and ranged damage all are in dire need of extensive shavings as well. As long as any of these are allowed to remains as over-bearing as they are now, Warrior has a right to excel, too. You mean it should nerf teef? I actually agree with you. But teef is not meta, they should nerf warrior first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 17 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said: Not a problem with dagger leaps hitting like a truck, just the unblockable one needs to be easier to differentiate from the blockable one; a good audio queue, or a white flash on the hand, would go miles in that direction. But dagger is a damage weapon, it's supposed to deal damage. Remove that, and you're left with virtuoso dagger (thanks S*lar, how are you? Hope you are having a nice time wherever you are now but please don't kittening come back). The problem is the same animations on leaps and 50% conditional damage that leaked into pvp from pve (idk about you, but I dont enjoy unblockable 7k slaps from a defense traitline). Dont dramatize, nothing comes close to uselesness of a virt dagger. 17 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said: Full counter on 20s cd would be the way to go with me, and I made that suggestion before (20s cd and the counter window goes from 2s to 1s; if it is procced the cooldown goes back to 10s or whatever it is now. The idea would be that a skillfull usage of FC to prevent an incoming threat is rewarded, but it's easier to whiff and if it does you pay penalty). FC needs drastic nerfs, a simple sacrifice to make way for overall warrior rebalance. If they had balls to nuke continuum split on its 105s cd, they should find some to nerf FC. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 8:29 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said: Not a problem with dagger leaps hitting like a truck, just the unblockable one needs to be easier to differentiate from the blockable one; a good audio queue, or a white flash on the hand, would go miles in that direction. But dagger is a damage weapon, it's supposed to deal damage. Remove that, and you're left with virtuoso dagger (thanks S*lar, how are you? Hope you are having a nice time wherever you are now but please don't kittening come back). Defense being defensive is fine to me, I guess. Full counter on 20s cd would be the way to go with me, and I made that suggestion before (20s cd and the counter window goes from 2s to 1s; if it is procced the cooldown goes back to 10s or whatever it is now. The idea would be that a skillfull usage of FC to prevent an incoming threat is rewarded, but it's easier to whiff and if it does you pay penalty). 20's too much but that sounds tolerable as a solution. How about 16, with proccing setting it to 8 to keep it nice and tidy (half cd) Couple things: CD is 8 seconds base. Counter window is 1.5 second, same as bandit's defense. Cue on one dagger leap remains a suitable idea. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: How about 16, with proccing setting it to 8 to keep it nice and tidy (half cd) Kill me, insult me, call me a liar, 8s cd on full counter should not be a thing, ever, period. 10s is as low as it can get IMHO. I can begrudgingly accept lowering the upper CD from 20s to something else, I can't accept the lower limit to be anything below 10s. It's just too strong of a mechanic. Edited January 10, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 12/22/2022 at 3:55 AM, Sahne.6950 said: i always did sympathize with those poor warriormains that stuck with their profession for years even tho it was garbage... what i dont like is, that the same people that were speaking alot of sense back then.. are now the ones that are heavily biased when it comes to anything warrior related.... "just bring boonrip and your fine" okey... the only specs with reasonable boonrip/strip are mesmer, thief, necro, and spellbreaker necro gets stunlocked by defensebreakerr..... memesmer..... looses the sidenodebattle against condibreaker any day..... Thief...... yeah...... let me just sidenode against defensbreaker with thief..... The only real answer here... is warrior itself..... The solution to defensebreaker is..... another warrior..... The wicked thing is, that the classes that have wide access to boonrip... still get hardcountered by warrior so they will loose. The only answer would be thief with boonrip and blindspam and another warrior. Condibreaker is absurd as a sidenoder and the quote "just bring boonrip" is a joke to say the least. Because the builds with boonrip will still loose. 80% of builds cant deal with a Condibreaker thats sitting on their node, no matter what they do. And that isnt a L2P thing either. Im sorry warriormains... but this needs a nerf. I'm terrible at untamed, so I'm no good to test this myself, but could untamed be a good answer to it? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said: I'm terrible at untamed, so I'm no good to test this myself, but could untamed be a good answer to it? Its pretty strong against the old spb build. The new ones though... You would need to play better than the spb. And you are definitely not taking the node before you kill the spb (which will take a while). Should be good enough for a +1 though. Edited January 10, 2023 by Hotride.2187 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noneHotBuildTest.7251 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 10:41 PM, Fueki.4753 said: Spellbreaker is not even the worst thing in sPvP right now. Versatile Power is the only real issue here. If Warrior gets any other nerfs, then Teleports, Shadow Steps, movement speed creep, Stealth, Immobilize, AoE vomit, condition vomit and ranged damage all are in dire need of extensive shavings as well. As long as any of these are allowed to remains as over-bearing as they are now, Warrior has a right to excel, too. bias 🤢 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 57 minutes ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: bias 🤢 Takes one to know one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: bias Maybe you should try telling that to someone who actually play Spellbreaker in sPvP. I do not. Or maybe at least try to bring something (other than a disgusting emoji) to the discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hederrain.9207 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said: Maybe you should try telling that to someone who actually play Spellbreaker in sPvP. I do not. Or maybe at least try to bring something (other than a disgusting emoji) to the discussion. Judging by the amount of your posts (and especially its content), you dont play the game as well Edited January 11, 2023 by Hederrain.9207 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 2 hours ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: bias 🤢 NHBT´s first "Forum metric" post. They grow so fast. ☺️👶 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said: Maybe you should try telling that to someone who actually play Spellbreaker in sPvP. I do not. Honstly your Profilepic is kinda misleading then 😄 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 27 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said: Honstly your Profilepic is kinda misleading then 😄 You shouldn't judge people just by their visual appearance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said: You shouldn't judge people just by their visual appearance. Thats right, but people will always look at someone that has big colorful shoes, a white painted face and a red nose and think: Yeah thats a clown. People will also look at someone that has a SPB icon and who comments under every SPB post, saying that Spellbreaker isnt overtuned, and think: Yeah, thats a biased SPB main. Thats just how people work unfortunately. Honestly a lot of things your saying make sense, just wanted to point out why everyone thinks your a Spb main... its cuz of your pic 😄 Edited January 11, 2023 by Sahne.6950 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noneHotBuildTest.7251 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said: Thats right, but people will always look at someone that has big colorful shoes, a white painted face and a red nose and think: Yeah thats a clown. People will also look at someone that has a SPB icon and who comments under every SPB post, saying that Spellbreaker isnt overtuned, and think: Yeah, thats a biased SPB main. Thats just how people work unfortunately. Honestly a lot of things your saying make sense, just wanted to point out why everyone is telling you that your a biased SPB player... its cuz of your pic 😄 That makes sense! got it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: That makes sense! got it. NHBT: *swaps his profilepicture from Tempest to warrior* oh god... i have no clue where this is going... but i am scared. Edited January 11, 2023 by Sahne.6950 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miriforst.1290 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said: NHBT: *swaps his profilepicture from Tempest to warrior* oh god... i have no clue where this is going... but i am scared. What have you done now...? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 52 minutes ago, miriforst.1290 said: What have you done now...? Quick, everyone swap your icons to tempest! 3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said: Thats right, but people will always look at someone that has big colorful shoes, a white painted face and a red nose and think: Yeah thats a clown. People will also look at someone that has a SPB icon and who comments under every SPB post, saying that Spellbreaker isnt overtuned, and think: Yeah, thats a biased SPB main. Thats just how people work unfortunately. Honestly a lot of things your saying make sense, just wanted to point out why everyone thinks your a Spb main... its cuz of your pic 😄 There is a reason why my icon is core warrior 😉 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) Don't even play anymore, but its hilarious to see a class being stacked 2/3 per team in tournaments, and all the warrior-mains who in past years provided very fair and well thought out criticisms of other OP classes, now meming just as hard that "you just gotta learn to play against it" and "if we just nerf this one thing by 0.3%, that's all it needs". Edited January 11, 2023 by Ragnar.4257 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 More like warrior was in the wilderness for almost three years and finally has an equal spot only for people to QQ about it. Those same warriors are pointing to a 15% nerf on the one skill that is giving people problems due to a years long bug in a CD reduction trait. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: More like warrior was in the wilderness for almost three years and finally has an equal spot only for people to QQ about it. Those same warriors are pointing to a 15% nerf on the one skill that is giving people problems due to a years long bug in a CD reduction trait. i dont wanna be that guy... but like 0.75 seconds extra Cooldown, that would be added if they fix the trait... wont cut it.... Edited January 11, 2023 by Sahne.6950 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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