Andrenal Health is too much

[eXruina.4956]

1 hour ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Some people have been quite rude in this thread. Let me start by saying I disagree with you.

am sorry 🥺😓 sprays self 💦

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

am sorry 🥺😓 sprays self 💦

Some measure of incredulity is warranted though. Still, let's not turn this into the 💩show that the PvP forum is.

[eXruina.4956]

12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Some measure of incredulity is warranted though. Still, let's not turn this into the 💩show that the PvP forum is.

at least you don't see me 💩 in other class forums. i know where my litterbox at. 💪

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, eXruina.4956 said:

at least you don't see me 💩 in other class forums. i know where my litterbox at. 💪

Good kitty.

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

The hammer spb build takes str and defense. The hp/s is for free.

Yeah ofc, that is the only reason to request nerfs. I duel on dagger str as usual (that is how I have fun), I switched to dagger defense when AFKing cause every1 else is playing broken builds anyway. I kill cele builds with this without much sweat; overall the build is not in an OK state. You see the same reception in the spvp.

But anyway, we will see what nerfs will be done. Its amazing to see so much comments in defense of this broken crap. But the other profession forums are the same so, no surprise.

Hammer spb in PVP maybe. In PVE though?

[eXruina.4956]

truth be told i don't even use defense in the warrior build i perform best in.

 

and 3 of the 4 wvw builds i have currently set up don't even use defense.

 

and as strong as spellbreaker is, i've used it sparingly. just because i prefer other specs.

 

but i don't appreciate taking a perfectly good option and turning it into 💩. which sums up anet balance over the past decade.

 

AH is ok currently, and that sustain is one of warrior's backbone. its like going to the thief forums and telling them to have stealth removed, or the necro forums and telling them to have shroud removed.

 

i do mind when threads like this come up, i'm a real warrior main afterall, so is kinda hard not to be a bit rude. 🤣💪

Edited January 2, 2023 by eXruina.4956

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Now for defense specifically, I’m not certain it needs as many multipliers as it does, given it now functions quite well as a defensive trait line. 17% of damage modifiers on a defense-first line seems a bit high imo. Chop the 10% mod off Stalwart Strength, lower Cull of the Weak to 5%, and I think you are looking at a more balanced line. 
Just my opinion though 🙂 

The mods are fine. It's actually good for trait lines to have a blend of offense and defensive traits; this promotes build diversity. Many trait lines in various professions have similar dynamics.

 

It's also important to note that, because the Defense line was intelligently designed, there are real tradeoffs in order to take the damage mods. Want those juicy hammer crits? Gotta give up defy pain and resilient roll. Want the stab and extra damage? Guess you're gonna be weak to condis without cleansing ire and you give up the barrier, vigor, and stance duration from Last Stand.  That's good design, and I applaud ANet for their work on that.

 

Cull the Weak is the one outlier here, but that's not an issue with the trait itself but rather than both dogged March and shield master are crap. If those two traits got some much needed love, there would be a real loss of another benefit when you opt for CtW.

 

ANet did a really solid job with the rework. This should be the model for future trait line reworks.

Edited January 2, 2023 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The Defense rework should be the gold standard on how core trait lines are reworked for all professions moving forward.

Any issue people are having in fighting against it are best solved with equivalent reworks to their profession trait lines.

[oscuro.9720]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

kitten, I never did that direct comparison. Engineer healing skills really suck compared to other classes it seems.

Engi, guard, and rev heals are going to be unrepresentative of their sustain capacity because they have significant sustain built into their profession mechanic. Rev gets 2 heals, guard has resolve passive+active, and engi has tool belt, plus a lot of combos they can throw into water fields.

By the same token, warrior and ranger heals are rather strong because their mechanics are less utility-focused. 
In a sense, adrenal health is just a way to build the sustain some classes gain through their profession mechanic into warrior’s profession mechanic. 
Though yes, engi (and necro) heals are not phenomenal.

 

edit;

For example; medic gyro has a pulsing protection+4 second water field on tool belt on the same CD, giving the opportunity for that healing to probably peak over 300 (im not familiar enough with engi to say for certain).

Healing turret stacks 10+ seconds of regen, 6 seconds from tool belt, and has tool belt water field. Idk if it gets to perms regen, but that does increase the healing of the total skill (I didn’t feel like calculating) 

AED’s conditional peak is 409 h/s, the highest I’ve seen.

Also none of this takes into account the scaling, which can become a significant factor.

So don’t feel too down about engi heals!

Edited January 2, 2023 by oscuro.9720

[oscuro.9720]

24 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

The mods are fine. It's actually good for trait lines to have a blend of offense and defensive traits; this promotes build diversity. Many trait lines in various professions have similar dynamics.

 

It's also important to note that, because the Defense line was intelligently designed, there are real tradeoffs in order to take the damage mods. Want those juicy hammer crits? Gotta give up defy pain and resilient roll. Want the stab and extra damage? Guess you're gonna be weak to condis without cleansing ire and you give up the barrier, vigor, and stance duration from Last Stand.  That's good design, and I applaud ANet for their work on that.

 

Cull the Weak is the one outlier here, but that's not an issue with the trait itself but rather than both dogged March and shield master are crap. If those two traits got some much needed love, there would be a real loss of another benefit when you opt for CtW.

 

ANet did a really solid job with the rework. This should be the model for future trait line reworks.

I agree, but the more sophisticated complaints I’ve seen about Defense builds is that Defense also helps you hit harder as well as providing good sustain (usually pertaining to the hammer build). My response is generally to say that they should remove or tone down damage mods before they cut sustain in the current balance format. Not that I’m actively advocating for that, just that if Warrior is deemed to be over performing, that’s the first thing I would consider toning down personally. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

13 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I agree, but the more sophisticated complaints I’ve seen about Defense builds is that Defense also helps you hit harder as well as providing good sustain (usually pertaining to the hammer build). My response is generally to say that they should remove or tone down damage mods before they cut sustain in the current balance format. Not that I’m actively advocating for that, just that if Warrior is deemed to be over performing, that’s the first thing I would consider toning down personally. 

Yeah hammer is in a weird place. Tbh, it's a bad weapon buffed to relevance by tweaking numbers--resulting in something that "works" (and is even "good") but still poorly designed. It's a one-trick pony that does massive dmg if it can land a CC-fierce blow combo, but nothing otherwise.

 

In a perfect world, it would be reworked to be more like Vindicator GS, with a mix of damage, defense, and mobility in addition to its CC. Then you could justify nerfing the FB dmg and spreading it out to the rest of the kit. That way, it loses the one-shot potential while still bringing a good mix of dmg, CC, and utility.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

It's so weird to see this take resurface in 2023 when the past three expansions have been a meticulously crafted course in "no, actually; warrior without sustain is bad, especially when they have to land telegraphed skills to get access to any fraction of sustain. 

12 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I'm given a 2nd heal for free, the only condition is that I must land bursts. Which I must land either way to do anything.

You wrote this and didn't come to any realization? Nothing?

 

Quote

I agree, but the more sophisticated complaints I’ve seen about Defense builds is that Defense also helps you hit harder as well as providing good sustain

This is more agreeable. Put the strength mods in strength, pls. If you want to play defense so you can live it should take you a little longer to kill people, IF there is any fault to be found with the defense line to begin with. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[KryTiKaL.3125]

9 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Its not gonna stay what it is right now, I can tell you that much. I'd rather have adrenal health take the hit than something that is used actively.

I don't get the "wall of text" thing. I play war actively, I want it to be in good shape. Good shape doesn't mean, bloated mess.

It is far from bloated. Its actually still lacking quite a bit in comparison to other classes and their self sustain, and Warrior is also not outputting near the same kind of consistent damage as other classes either due in large part to the class just overall lacking comparative boon generation and uptime as those same other classes.

I think you are vastly over-estimating where Warrior is at currently in the overall environment in competitive play. Also using PvE as a gauge for if Adrenal Health is too much sustain is...probably one of the most silly things I've seen; because general open world PvE in this game is laughably easy to get through even without that and in Fractals/Raids you're not typically choosing Defense because that is cutting into your DPS by a lot and even if you did, Adrenal Health is certainly not something that is going to carry you through Fractal/Raid content anyway because it is "so strong" or bloated. It isn't. Bladesworn sustain was bloated until they justifiably nerfed it.

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Hammer spb in PVP maybe. In PVE though?

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/warrior/power-spellbreaker/

I'm surpised you dont know this one, in all the metas I do this regularly is in top 3 dps. Has nearly perma stab too.

For the rest of the replies I'm not gonna bother. Apparently its all spb fault and all of war must become as overloaded as the current defense. We'll see how long that lasts.

[Peacekid.1463]

i dnt think adrenaline health is too much 

[Dadnir.5038]

I just wanna ask everyone to stand and applaud the OP that manage to land bursts while being AFK in WvW.

[Zuko.7132]

7 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/warrior/power-spellbreaker/

I'm surpised you dont know this one, in all the metas I do this regularly is in top 3 dps. Has nearly perma stab too.

For the rest of the replies I'm not gonna bother. Apparently its all spb fault and all of war must become as overloaded as the current defense. We'll see how long that lasts.

Seeing as spellbreaker is the only spec being used in pvp, it’s safe to say that adrenal health and defense is not op in and of itself. If it was, core war, berserker, and bladesworn running defense would all be top picks. They’re not. Without the active defense of full counter, war struggles quite a bit. Not to mention fullcounter is what makes it so much easier to stack adrenal health in the first place.

[Infusion.7149]

12 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/warrior/power-spellbreaker/

I'm surpised you dont know this one, in all the metas I do this regularly is in top 3 dps. Has nearly perma stab too.

For the rest of the replies I'm not gonna bother. Apparently its all spb fault and all of war must become as overloaded as the current defense. We'll see how long that lasts.

Is it benchmarked at all? I'm not a part of hardstuck

Edit: it seems flaschorLP benchmarked it around 34.6K?

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Infusion.7149

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Defense fine. SpB abusing. 

People hate fighting SpB daze/immob. 

They are dazed immobed and FC provides an invuln frame. 

This gives the necessary windows for spb to heal tick with adrenal. 

Try playing power zerker with defense and see how mediocre it is (tho it's also the fact that Berserk mode got annihilated as a non-burst). 

Core warrior with defense and strength is usable to very good. That's core warr tho, always reliable. 

Just remove FC daze and the proc from no escape won't happen. Cook a baseline boonrip to compensate. 

People will have a far easier time against warrior and it pains me for such a nerf to happen, but it would allow core to be potent.