Dear CMC: Please Fix Bladesworn [PvP/WvW]

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

@Cal Cohen.2358

I appreciate the attention that BS got in the last balance patch; thank you!  I do, however, think that BS needs more help in order to truly compete with other professions.  A few thoughts:

 

Review of the Recent Gunsaber Changes:

Ranged AA:  Good.  Doesn't do much dmg unless you have a bunch of might, and the aftercasts don't feel great, but all-in-all it's a pretty solid upgrade.

 

Blooming Fire: Terrible.  This skill is hot trash.  In fact, I would go so far as to say that you should not use this over auto-attacking in virtually any circumstance.  The cast time is too long, the damage is too low, and the small radius of the explosions mean that most will miss if the shot is fired at a moving target (resulting in your attack frequently doing 400-700 damage).  This skill needs some serious love.    Ideally, this should be a powerful melee attack.  We now have a ranged AA and artillery slash and cyclone trigger are also ranged dmg...we really don't need another (and it's honestly a liability to have all ranged attacks when there is so much projectile hate/reflect in the game currently; you want to have tools for every occasion, especially on a mandatory weapon like gunsaber).   Returning this skill to its previous form and buffing the dmg by 25-33% and reducing the cast time to 1/2s would be ideal.

However, if you're sold on keeping it as a ranged attack, I suggest increasing the explosion radius to at least 240 so the whole attack will reliably hit moving targets.  Reduce cast time to 1/2s.  Let each explosion apply 2 stacks of vulnerability.  This will make it preferrable to an AA as well as help it a) cleave (because of the increased AoE) and b) have a niche use (applying vuln).

 

Artillery Slash: OK.  The fire-all-your-charges-at-once thing isn't as bad as I feared, especially because it is compensated for by reduced CD per charge.  The daze with 2 charges is decent (but not game-changing), too.  However, the 3/4s cast time feels awful.  Please reduce to 1/2s.  The projectile is already fairly slow and has wonky targeting (very unreliable beyond short range, esp if the target is moving--which is almost always), so it does not need to be further hindered by long cast times.

 

Cyclone Trigger:  Great.  The extra aegis is wonderful.  This would be even more powerful if the rest of the kit, esp blooming fire and artillery slash, were more reliable damage sources so you could use CT primarily for defense and not as one of your main sources of damage.

 

Bladesworn's Biggest Issue: Dragon Trigger:

There's no way around this: trying to charge DT for any length of time in the middle of a warzone without stability is a low-probability endeavor. This results in being denied your main class mechanic--and all the burst-related traits attached to it--a significant part of the time.  And when you get knocked out, you lose all your charges AND DT goes on full CD.  Imagine if CC'ing a necro in shroud (or a holo in holoforge, or a druid in Celestial Avatar, etc) knocked them out of shroud, made them lose all their shroud pts, and put the whole thing on full CD.  That's what Bladesworn is being asked to put up with.  Combined with the fact that you only get one burst, this causes BS to really struggle to maximize burst-related traits like Berserker's power, Adrenal Healing, Cleansing Ire, etc--a problem, because that further reduces BS's build diversity.  As an aside, please fix the bug that puts DT on full CD when interrupted.

 

BS needs stability to protect DT.  I think the best way to do this is to return it to Dragonscale Defense with no CD.  Getting a fully protected DT every time could be pretty obnoxious, I admit, so I propose that the stability duration be only 2s.  This is enough to protect a partial charge of DT; the player thus needs to choose between trying for a maximum charge that will not be protected by stability, or a weaker charge that will be protected.  This both potentiates BS's gameplay while allowing for counterplay....ergo, balance.

 

If you don't want to do that, you should at least put stability on Triggerguard and reduce the CD to 40s per charge.  That averages out to 1 Triggerguard being available every 20s (a little more frequently if you use Tactical Reload), or about 1 in 3 DT attempts.  I don't think that's too much to ask.  

 

Dragon Slash Reach Needs to Be a Proper Projectile:  It jumps over targets and is thrown off by any change of elevation.  This severely limits its usefulness.  Terrain is an important part of the game, and not being able to use your best attack vs players above/below you is a real issue.

 

Dragon Slash Force Needs to Not Be Jumpable:  Just make the hitbox taller. 

 

 

Pistol:

It sucks. It has neither the damage, defense, or utility of other OH weapons.  A few suggestions:

Gunstinger: Increase range to 450 and give it a second ammo charge.

Dragon's Roar:  Reduce cast time to 1/4s and remove aftercasts.  The explosions themselves roll out over about 1/2-3/4s, so there really doesn't need to be a lengthy telegraph and animation lock on this skill.  It makes it too hard to hit moving targets.  This change, combined with an extra charge of Gunstinger, should significantly improve the usefulness of the skill.

 

Traits:

Most traits are useless/far inferior to other traits.  Some ideas:

 

Unseen Sword:  This hits for 1/2 the damage of an auto attack.   You could easily triple or quadruple this damage, especially since it would only be a significant source of damage if you run Discipline for Fast Hands, which itself is a significant sustain/dps loss.

 

Fierce as Fire:  way too much work to gain/maintain stacks for the amount of the dmg mod.  Look at Guardian: +10% for having resolution (which they can upkeep almost indefinitely), or Lethal Tempo providing up to +15% dmg with refreshable stacks.  Or Vindicator getting +15% dmg mod just for dodging.  Not gonna lie, it's really frustrating to have to point out just how inconsistent the balance is between professions here...Warrior plays by a different (and far worse) set of rules than everyone else.

 

Anyway, FaF should provide either +2% dmg per stack, or +1.5% with refreshable stacks, or +1% and gain 1 might (5s) (or some other boon).  Simply put, it needs MORE.

 

Lush Forest:  needs a complete rework.  I made a thread on that if you're interested.

 

Unyielding Dragon Or Bust:  UD is the only reasonable choice for a GM trait.  The other 2 will only be remotely viable if you make Dragon Slash attacks unblindable/unblockable at baseline.

 

Daring Dragon: So clunky.  Should not HAVE to immediately enter DT.  It's further nerfed by having a flow cost to enter DT.

I think it would be healthier (especially if you make all DT attacks unblockable/unblindable) as:

 

DT charges twice as fast.  Max charges =5.  DT CD reduced to 6s.

 

Thanks for considering it!  I hope to see some positive changes for the May patch!

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

On 3/12/2023 at 1:28 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Fierce as Fire:  way too much work to gain/maintain stacks for the amount of the dmg mod. 

This was what I've been looking at lately in regards to BS. I kept trying to make a glass build that could blow up people quickly. Sadly, the only way to make Bladesworn bursty is to build up Fierce as Fire stacks, and like you pointed out, it takes time.

That's the downside. The upside is that the less glassier builds can hit harder after gaining stacks.

My guess is that Anet doesn't like warrior being able to burst down people suddenly, which is why we still have adrenaline decay and our only way to vaporize people instantly is to build full glass with no survivability.

I just wish Bladesworn had a sudden burst 😕. Charging flow then charging again in DT really slows my quickdraw attempts lol.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

With the other especs from EoD they had such buff stacks refresh all stack's duration when adding a new stack. Not FaF though. It's changes like that which make it look like warrior is either an afterthought to them or purposefully given inferior versions of things.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

20 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

This was what I've been looking at lately in regards to BS. I kept trying to make a glass build that could blow up people quickly. Sadly, the only way to make Bladesworn bursty is to build up Fierce as Fire stacks, and like you pointed out, it takes time.

That's the downside. The upside is that the less glassier builds can hit harder after gaining stacks.

My guess is that Anet doesn't like warrior being able to burst down people suddenly, which is why we still have adrenaline decay and our only way to vaporize people instantly is to build full glass with no survivability.

I just wish Bladesworn had a sudden burst 😕. Charging flow then charging again in DT really slows my quickdraw attempts lol.

Yeah, I agree...

I really wish things like signet of Fury or To The Limit gave chunks of flow instead of just making it generate faster.  Would be great to be able to build for a "quick start" bladesworn build.

[August.5934]

 @CalmTheStorm.2364 @Cal Cohen.2358 🙂

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by August.5934

[eXruina.4956]

On 3/14/2023 at 2:00 PM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

My guess is that Anet doesn't like warrior being able to burst down people suddenly

yet every other class can, somethings really wrong with their balance direction in regards with warrior.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Honestly, I think reworking Daring Dragon as suggested in the OP could do for Bladesworn in PvP/WvW what Eternal Champion did for berserker.

 

Having a fast-charging, lower CD DS could do wonders for improving BS's viability.  The fast charge would make DS effectively closer in function to a normal burst skill (ya know, ones that don't have lengthy charge times...) and provide less opportunity for it to be interrupted.  This, combined with a lower CD, would make frequent DS attacks a thing and would help BS maximize traits like Adrenal Healing and Berserker's power.

 

 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

On 3/14/2023 at 2:00 AM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

This was what I've been looking at lately in regards to BS. I kept trying to make a glass build that could blow up people quickly. Sadly, the only way to make Bladesworn bursty is to build up Fierce as Fire stacks, and like you pointed out, it takes time.

That's the downside. The upside is that the less glassier builds can hit harder after gaining stacks.

My guess is that Anet doesn't like warrior being able to burst down people suddenly, which is why we still have adrenaline decay and our only way to vaporize people instantly is to build full glass with no survivability.

I just wish Bladesworn had a sudden burst 😕. Charging flow then charging again in DT really slows my quickdraw attempts lol.

These aren't true one-shot builds, but they do pack a pretty hard punch and have decent sustain:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgEcEWWK7ihxsYuYRLlGLB-zZILjMLgeTAbHAA

or

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgEcEWWK7ihxsYu4wLlGLB-zZILjMLgeTATGAA

 

The Arms variant is more reliable, but the Strength variant has higher total dps potential.  Max out your Berserk's power and even your AAs become very threatening, even if your DS doesn't crit

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Another problem that Bladesworn has is lack of good weapons to use with it. That's more of a weapon issue rather than a BS issue per se, but the fact is the most of Warrior 's weapons are pretty bad without their burst skills. Currently, only MH axe is really viable on BS.

 

I really wish the hundred blades was reworked into something more useful (preferably no root and shorter cast time), because GS would be an ideal weapon for BS. The in-and-out playstyle of GS would help disengage and set up the ranged gunsaber attacks, as well as provide the mobility that BS otherwise lacks.

[Vancho.8750]

Personally I think Flow should start at 100% out of combat and in combat you will be trying to get your flow back up, basically reverse Adrenaline. 
Daring Dragon should work like Decapitate and just reset the CD if you hit or reduce it to 3 seconds or something idk, so you go burst skill burst and use the burst like a normal skill.
Break Step should have longer range so it is actual gap closer and do something else on top, since the skill is anemic in comparison to everything that came in HoT, PoF and EOD, I don't get the big idea of balancing the mobility of Warrior when everyone is doing Instant transmissions everywhere.
Swift as the Wind should give Supper speed.
@CalmTheStorm.2364 About the kitten Main Hand situation, what if using the Bladesworn elite changes the skills to something else, like sword getting cooler and explosive attacks maybe even one ranged one, they did that for virtuoso for the sword since it didn't work mechanically with the elite, but it shows  that they can do that.   

[eXruina.4956]

47 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Personally I think Flow should start at 100% out of combat and in combat you will be trying to get your flow back up, basically reverse Adrenaline.

please make adrenaline be a self-charging, non-decaying resource across all warrior specs.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Personally I think Flow should start at 100% out of combat and in combat you will be trying to get your flow back up, basically reverse Adrenaline. 
Daring Dragon should work like Decapitate and just reset the CD if you hit or reduce it to 3 seconds or something idk, so you go burst skill burst and use the burst like a normal skill.
Break Step should have longer range so it is actual gap closer and do something else on top, since the skill is anemic in comparison to everything that came in HoT, PoF and EOD, I don't get the big idea of balancing the mobility of Warrior when everyone is doing Instant transmissions everywhere.
Swift as the Wind should give Supper speed.
@CalmTheStorm.2364 About the kitten Main Hand situation, what if using the Bladesworn elite changes the skills to something else, like sword getting cooler and explosive attacks maybe even one ranged one, they did that for virtuoso for the sword since it didn't work mechanically with the elite, but it shows  that they can do that.   

That's a neat idea, Vancho. I've never thought of something like that. I'd be down 🙂

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

A few small QoL things I neglected to put in the OP:

 

Why does entering DT have a 1/4s cast time?  Do we REALLY need to slow this down any more? 1/4s to enter DT, 2.5s for a full charge, then 1/2s cast for the attack itself. Good lord. It's like they really, really don't want you to get this off.

 

Also, why is there a flow cost? I already need to generate one resource, and then turn it into another resource (while standing still, no less) before I can use it. Why do I need to be taxed on this resource use, too?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

A few small QoL things I neglected to put in the OP:

 

Why does entering DT have a 1/4s cast time?  Do we REALLY need to slow this down any more? 1/4s to enter DT, 2.5s for a full charge, then 1/2s cast for the attack itself. Good lord. It's like they really, really don't want you to get this off.

 

Also, why is there a flow cost? I already need to generate one resource, and then turn it into another resource (while standing still, no less) before I can use it. Why do I need to be taxed on this resource use, too?

Because warrior has to have hoops. Why? Something, something, high effective HP pool, something, something, noobs wouldn't be able to handle it.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

21 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Instant transmissions

Liked for the DBZ reference.

[Rongaron.9213]

they wont fix warrior in general because i bet every streamers who are not warriormains but like muklukmancer or other overpopulary class like thief or guardian will cry their dolyak rearsides over it and Anet will be like "ok we dont make another fav chil" and left Warrior in deeper grave 

[gmmg.9210]

Hit the nail on the head, dragon trigger is easily the biggest sore thumb right now and needs the most work. Some ability to store ammo mid charge up, or having stability access is a must here. Otherwise the user is way to vulnerable and prone to getting wrecked.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

To be honest, all of the above (very justified) gripes notwithstanding, BS would be so much better if they just fixed the freaking bug that puts DT on a full 8s CD whenever it gets interrupted.  

 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Also of note: BS's utilities are trash in competitive modes.

 

Flow Stabilizer could be good if it gave stability in addition to Fury.

 

Dragonspike mine could be good if it cleansed immobilize and had a 25s CD (see Ranger's Lightning Reflexes or Willbender's Roiling Light for comparisons).

 

Electric Fence has, at best, a niche use in WvW pirate ship fights. Would be much more useful if it were a PBAoE dome that moved with the bladesworn; should grant shocking aura on activation and pulse cripple on enemies within.

[Dadnir.5038]

Well... Is it really wise to invest time into making bladesworn competitive in competitive modes? If it can land bursts that actually do damage, the competitive modes subforums will be out for bladesworn blood and have it nerfed down to uselesness anyway.

I mean, Dragontrigger's design is unfit for competitive modes. We all know it. We knew it even before EoD release. Why even bother? Taking bladesworn in competitive is going to the fight with a handicap by design. They should just leave it to PvE and focus on improving the playability of Berserker and Spellbreaker.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

41 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Well... Is it really wise to invest time into making bladesworn competitive in competitive modes? If it can land bursts that actually do damage, the competitive modes subforums will be out for bladesworn blood and have it nerfed down to uselesness anyway.

I mean, Dragontrigger's design is unfit for competitive modes. We all know it. We knew it even before EoD release. Why even bother? Taking bladesworn in competitive is going to the fight with a handicap by design. They should just leave it to PvE and focus on improving the playability of Berserker and Spellbreaker.

I disagree with that. For starters, bladesworn isn't that far off from being a viable, if not top-tier, pick. I have tons of success with power shoutsworn in ranked and unranked play. The damage is excellent, and the sustain is otherworldly, even after the TR nerf. All it truly needs is a bit of stab back on Dragonscale Defense (1.5-2s or so) and to rework blooming fire into an actually decent skill, and it will be very competitive, at least for Joe Q Public.

 

Don't get me wrong, BS would still have a bunch of jank and bad design that would limit it, even with some stab and the BF rework. But there would be at least one truly solid build, and that's a great start.

 

Further, it's poor form to decide that "this spec just isn't meant for competitive modes." If something is that poorly designed, it should be fixed (like firebrand), not just abandoned.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

@Cal Cohen.2358

 

Please oh please fix blooming fire. This skill often has half its explosions miss the target even when it is stationary. I routinely have BF hit for 400-700 dmg in real game situations (i.e. not vs a golem). As it stands, it is almost always preferable to use an AA over BF, esp since the 2nd and 3rd AA do almost as much dmg as BF is theoretically capable of, do it much more reliably, and have a shorter cast time.

 

As noted above, a simple fix would be to reduce BF's cast time to 1/2s, increase the explosion radius to 240, and allow the explosions to inflict a stack or 2 of vulnerability per hit. This would make it more likely for all the explosions to hit the target and make it preferable to an AA in most situations (a low bar for a skill, I know, but this would be a massive upgrade over the current situation).

 

Thanks for considering it!