(sPvP) The wider Playerbase want more Mesmer Nerfs

[ventress.4879]

I noticed an increasing number of threads on the PvP Forum about how unfair fighting a Virtuoso is.
This does all stem from the fact the wider PvP player base have no idea how the Virtuoso Damage Immunity works.

I don't see this ending well again for Mesmer, I feel like this class is too hard to understand for the normies and will just be nerfed forever.

 

Good luck on them returning the Second Dodge to Mirage, it's probably never coming back.

[katte nici.9483]

While Mesmer in general and even Virtuoso needs some buffs Virtuoso must also lose distortion.

[Duglaive.5236]

2 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

this class is too hard to understand for the normies 

 

For the "normies"?  /snorts with laughter

It's been obvious forever that even the devs do not understand their creation. Anything beyond knee-jerk reactions and thrown-wildly-at-the-dartboard changes is too much to ask of the dev team and the player base at large.

[ventress.4879]

1 hour ago, katte nici.9483 said:

While Mesmer in general and even Virtuoso needs some buffs Virtuoso must also lose distortion.

I think this is the main problem, distortion is fine since it has tell. The hardest thing to notice is Aegis but all the other damage immunitys have a blurring effect on a Mesmer. 

[draxynnic.3719]

*blink* *blink*

Maybe it's what I've been playing, maybe it's the people I've been playing against, but virtuosos haven't exactly been what I've been scared of. They're good at safe stomping and ressing, but apart from that, they've felt about average to me.

[Salt Mode.3780]

13 hours ago, katte nici.9483 said:

While Mesmer in general and even Virtuoso needs some buffs Virtuoso must also lose distortion.

I agree completely. There was no reason to give Virtuoso Distortion, this buff was unwarranted and unneeded. What it desperately needs is more mobility to reposition itself to be able to cast off the shatters. Virtuoso already has blade renewal unless they remove blade renewal as part of the distortion and give us a mobility skill that isn't blink, probably the most abused Mesmer skill in all of Mesmer history.

[ascii.1369]

The funny thing is that it's not even that good, it's just annoying because of how much invuln/block it has. And given that you can't contest while distorted it still loses nodes.

 

What I don't get is why they didn't just combine distortion and bladeturn requiem. If they want all mesmers to have distortion, just make bladeturn requiems block a distort instead. Sure virtuoso would lose the synergy between the block and psychic riposte, but that seems to be a rather small price to pay for a mauch healthier version of virtuoso.

[draxynnic.3719]

21 minutes ago, ascii.1369 said:

The funny thing is that it's not even that good, it's just annoying because of how much invuln/block it has. And given that you can't contest while distorted it still loses nodes.

 

What I don't get is why they didn't just combine distortion and bladeturn requiem. If they want all mesmers to have distortion, just make bladeturn requiems block a distort instead. Sure virtuoso would lose the synergy between the block and psychic riposte, but that seems to be a rather small price to pay for a mauch healthier version of virtuoso.

Even that shouldn't be too hard to deal with - just make bladeturn requiem trigger off distort as well.

But yeah, it's not that good, it's just hard to kill. 

[Justine.6351]

6 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I agree completely. There was no reason to give Virtuoso Distortion, this buff was unwarranted and unneeded. What it desperately needs is more mobility to reposition itself to be able to cast off the shatters. Virtuoso already has blade renewal unless they remove blade renewal as part of the distortion and give us a mobility skill that isn't blink, probably the most abused Mesmer skill in all of Mesmer history.

Rofl, they need jaunt.

[dead.7638]

1 2 3 and dodge.

[Belze Intilie.8436]

Well the fact that Virtu has the ability to sustain outnumbered a large amount of time and bind 1-3 players for a node is annoying ( if people are stupid enough to outnumber a virtu...cuz he can´t hold the node with the invuls anyway).

The next fact is u can actually kill classes like ele (or other nodeholders, beside warrior) if they don´t watch out for confusion,...spamming skill into 10+ stacks of confusion isnt smart. But overall the playstyle of virtu is kinda toxic...and i abuse it myself (even now with mimic to double blink or blade renewal). On the other hand...what do we have left to play...a chrono spamming wells kitten build (boring) and a one shot chrono build (dead to 1 condi hits u). And tbf, if a decent thief +1 vs you...ur pretty much dead

[dead.7638]

Virtuoso is balanced compared to other specs

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, Belze Intilie.8436 said:

Well the fact that Virtu has the ability to sustain outnumbered a large amount of time and bind 1-3 players for a node is annoying ( if people are stupid enough to outnumber a virtu...cuz he can´t hold the node with the invuls anyway).

The next fact is u can actually kill classes like ele (or other nodeholders, beside warrior) if they don´t watch out for confusion,...spamming skill into 10+ stacks of confusion isnt smart. But overall the playstyle of virtu is kinda toxic...and i abuse it myself (even now with mimic to double blink or blade renewal). On the other hand...what do we have left to play...a chrono spamming wells kitten build (boring) and a one shot chrono build (dead to 1 condi hits u). And tbf, if a decent thief +1 vs you...ur pretty much dead

That might well be a large part of it. Catalyst, especially scepter catalyst, has been popular for a while, and a build that can absorb that burst while punishing it with Confusion would be pretty painful. And a lot of players don't stop to consider whether a build is punishing them because it's OP or just that it happens to be a counter to their own build.

[ventress.4879]

9 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

New account out of nowhere, is that Mell's replacement?

  Hide contents

just a reminder, that OP thinks having 1 evade on mirage is almost the same amount of evades if you had two, upon explaining why thats bs, still believes its true

 

 

The moderators banned my old account so shhhh or they will do it again.

Honestly i try and be really balanced, this post is about preparing you all for Distortion nerf on Virtuoso. Seems like everyone wants it so meh.

Edited March 23, 2023 by ventress.4879

[dead.7638]

Your post comes off as a troll post because you have been clapped by a Mesmer too often.

[ventress.4879]

23 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

Your post comes off as a troll post because you have been clapped by a Mesmer too often.

Yeah true, arg I don't really know how not come off as a troll. Like I said I'm either trying to provide what the larger player base is feeling or the developers. 

Ultimately what makes my posts troll like is the fact that most of the time I'm right. The second dodge nerf has not really neutered Mirage since its still a valid pick for WvW roaming. Its is mostly due to its mobility. 

Everyone claimed Virtuoso would be horrible and never be played inside any PvP game mode due to projectiles but again its now one of the most popular picks sPvP and Roaming. I see far more Mesmer Virtuosos than the other two elites combined.

Honestly I don't know what to say. Right now Mesmer is in the best state it has been in a long time. 

[ventress.4879]

I mean go look at the PvP forum right now, I don't want to name names but someone is asking for the deletion of the Mesmer class. 

No mater how often I criticise the negative view of Mesmer right now we might end up in a deleted state if the narrative is only Mesmer are OP. Gives CMC more justification to just nerf it more. 

[Nodster.5264]

Speaking as a virtuoso in PVE (raids) its survivability because of all the PVP driven nerfs feels abysmal now.

[ventress.4879]

4 hours ago, Nodster.5264 said:

Speaking as a virtuoso in PVE (raids) its survivability because of all the PVP driven nerfs feels abysmal now.

It hasn't been nerfed, unless you mean core stuff.

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 3/21/2023 at 9:37 PM, ventress.4879 said:

I noticed an increasing number of threads on the PvP Forum about how unfair fighting a Virtuoso is.
This does all stem from the fact the wider PvP player base have no idea how the Virtuoso Damage Immunity works.

I don't see this ending well again for Mesmer, I feel like this class is too hard to understand for the normies and will just be nerfed forever.

 

Good luck on them returning the Second Dodge to Mirage, it's probably never coming back.

1 we knew sec dodge to mirage is never coming back, and if it is, there would be futher nerfs to ensure mirage is garbage.
2 playerbase at large hates mesmer, and I dont see more complaining then usuall, its less if anything.
3 there is 1 delete post made by angry guy that abuses cata/spb, dont mind himm he can whine all he wants.
4 kitten virtuoso, kitten design, scrap class and re-do, lazy devs.

[roederich.2716]

people are just used by now to use EoD spec or scrapper to blink or dash on everyone and immediately burst 150% of that players health away with 2-3 button press. as soon that dont works cause that other player knows how to sustain / block / dodge this blink nonsense they come on the forum and talk about "xyz is op, needs nerf"

mesmer is neglected since years by anet, it lacks damage in pvp and wvw. if you play full power vs a condi spec you have more than a hard time and mostly only one chance to attack , if that fails you can say goodbye cause lack of cleanse in power build.

in pvp you play bunker chrono or viruoso then, in wvw squads completely jailed to utility support...

everything that worked with mesmer has been cut off like boonshare from signet of inspiration while a other classes just spread boons around like wild... but nerf the mesmers...

is there even any of the original mesmer designers who know the class mechanics in the company? all ele, warri and engi mains in charge buffing their specs... 

[Dr Meta.3158]

Mesmer has never been in a healthy state.

Mesmer itself isn't good for new players who not only are struggling to learn what skill is dangerous to be hit by and which isn't because many if the skills aren't distinct in that like pve is, but who also have to deal with trying to figure out which mesmer is the real mesmer while not trying to get killed in 0.2 seconds by a power shatter combo.

Since the expansions every new mesmer spec has an unhealthy bunker that also deals a ridiculous amount of damage. HOT was bunker chrono. Chronomancer itself being the spellbreaker for mesmer in which its unique mechanic resulted in the destruction of mesmer traits and skills across the board due to how grossly abusive continuum split is.

POF was Mirage which someone before calculated the meta build to have a 92% invulnerability uptime with permanent 50% damage reduction and some have pushed this to doing fractals in pve while taking 0's as damage in return. This is why mirage has one dodge.

Then along with that came the phantasm rework and the phantasm spam bunker chronomancer that shorts kept sending videos about everywhere to ensure every mesmer player played it so it could be prominent enough to be nerfed out of existence.

Then now we have bunker virtuoso which isn't too particularly useful against a good team in tournaments but a semi plague in ranked and another build to add to sic em soulbeast and condi p/p daredevil as a sadism enabler.

And right now, and thankfully only a few people know of it, how to build, and how to play it, but virtuoso is far from the most dangerous mesmer spec right now.

Mesmer overall needs an overhaul and a focus in their core identity of battlefield control through disorienting means rather than the two options of cs:go sniper and "take up space and ignore game mechanics"

[Dadnir.5038]

6 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

POF was Mirage which someone before calculated the meta build to have a 92% invulnerability uptime with permanent 50% damage reduction and some have pushed this to doing fractals in pve while taking 0's as damage in return. This is why mirage has one dodge.

As far as I know mirage kept it's 2nd dodge in PvE, why do you suggest that it was nerfed in competitive modes due to PvE? The truth is that this second dodge was removed because the sPvP subforum had been exploding with complaints about a mirage condi build with exceptional survivability. Removing the 2nd dodge was in order to both reduce survivability and the condition burst (While the resulting loss of QoL is what effectively deleted the mirage).

[draxynnic.3719]

I've said before that they should consider reducing base Distortion on mirage to 1s and making Desert Distortion baseline, and revert one dodge. That would reduce mirage's ability to have long periods of invulnerability, but would restore mirage's ability to use a dodge to trigger an ambush while still having a dodge in reserve for defensive purposes.

[Dr Meta.3158]

10 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

As far as I know mirage kept it's 2nd dodge in PvE, why do you suggest that it was nerfed in competitive modes due to PvE? The truth is that this second dodge was removed because the sPvP subforum had been exploding with complaints about a mirage condi build with exceptional survivability. Removing the 2nd dodge was in order to both reduce survivability and the condition burst (While the resulting loss of QoL is what effectively deleted the mirage).

I didn't. I just mentioned it as an indicator of how absurd mirage was in every game mode. I didn't expect anyone to get confused by that.