How much and what type of stealth do you like in wvw?

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 3/28/2023 at 5:12 PM, oatsnjuices.1698 said:

I cant beat a good sa thief, but if im in group i can ignore them until the target is on them. There is nothing wrong with that class, but there is everything wrong with turning a pvp centric game mode into pve just because the silverwastes are too boring. 

 I dont play sa thief but i know a few things about roaming. Celestial anything outheals anything. Catalist in the right hands can kill 5 at a time, I have seen them in guards unstoppable. Aura ele makes 5 players like 10 in roaming. Druid can kill multiples and thief cant really stop it if someone competent is playing it. Ranger is super dangerous in the right h

ands, it can 100-0 any thief if that thiefs 1 or 2 stunbreaks are gone, im not complaining about that ranger that kills me in 5 seconds becaause i cant outdodge his 1 wolf pack and onslaught. I dont know his name but he is OP. The new celestial durability rune salvation renegade is virtually unkillable by thief, it just heals so much, so does willbender. And fresh air weaver, in the right hands, is just gnarly! And some warrior builds, it takes 10 to kill because stunbreaks, nikes, resistance, and good rotations.

Do you have any idea how much it sucks to lose a fight because the other class spams an unfair mechanic? This goes for lots of classes, not just thieves.

Quote

Celestial anything outheals anything.

Well, that's just false. It depends on your build more than it does on your gear.

Edited March 30, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[Xenesis.6389]

Totally surprised thieves aren't up in here voting for the un-nerf shadow meld option.

[oatsnjuices.1698]

 

On 3/30/2023 at 12:32 PM, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Do you have any idea how much it sucks to lose a fight because the other class spams an unfair mechanic? This goes for lots of classes, not just thieves.

Well, that's just false. It depends on your build more than it does on your gear.

like I said, zerging without consequence belongs in the silverwastes. I spent a long time learning to play this game, and still can not kill a celestial druid, why would I complain about it? I could make a post about ban celestials, that has been done many many times, but i dont. I LTP, get better, and dont take a badly built ranger, or simply no experience into a battleground and expect to win every skirmish. find players to roam with and hunt thieves, or anything that annoys you about roamers.

Edited April 2, 2023 by oatsnjuices.1698

[Morden Kain.3489]

On 3/28/2023 at 12:38 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Also if you ask me I really think the game should tell you if you did damage to a stealthed target; it's kinda stupid you get 0 feedback. 

There is some feedback for Engie if you trait right, any damage done pops a small sand shield... Works great with the Shredder Gyro, as blue numbers start popping on invisi peeps.

[Ferus.3165]

how about instead of removing stealth you remove the instant application of it. So after you applied a stealth ability it takes 3 seconds untill you are fully stealthed (exception for stunbreak stealth utilities). And any action asside from moving will reveal you. That way anet could revert many nerfs (e.g. the duration and removal of revealed nerf on shadow meld)

[stormemperor.3745]

Its always engineer anyway.

 

Good thieves don't even need stealth, they are simply that good.

[Morden Kain.3489]

3 hours ago, stormemperor.3745 said:

Its always engineer anyway.

Well, this statement does not make much sense to me, so I am lost...

3 hours ago, stormemperor.3745 said:

Good thieves don't even need stealth, they are simply that good.

Guess I have never meet a "good thief", as they all hit from stealth, then go invis as soon as I start hitting them.  Next time I see them, they are running for the hills laughing they got their backstab in. (shrug)

[cyberzombie.7348]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:50 PM, stormemperor.3745 said:

Good thieves don't even need stealth, they are simply that good.

Good d/p thieves don't camp in stealth. As the idea to be dangerous on d/p is to be more agile than sneaky. Someone that is camping in stealth isn't accomplishing much in the grand scheme outside of scouting or being a portal bot. 

Plus every other kit besides rifle aren't as dependent on stealth but lags behind in roaming situations due to either lack of dps and/or utility. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by cyberzombie.7348

[Cuks.8241]

I really like group stealth. It brings a lot of good, skill-full tactics into fights. But I think group stealth should come mostly or exclusively from blasting smoke fields.  And thats why I think the gyro change was such a dumb change.

Why only from blasting fields?

First of all you can hear it. Sounds should be integral part of the telegraphs and blasts have distinct loud sound. 

Second it does bring a nice group play component to it. It's natural to anyone that plays with coordinated groups but it still is somewhat skill-full coordination to blast properly and possibly on the move. You need to time your fields and blasts and you need to be careful someone doesn't put another field on top of smoke and messes up the blast priority.

[wolfer.7945]

Stealth is mostly good where it is.   Save for the Deadeye dodge stealth.   The reveal on that should be like twice as long.  And we need more ways to remove stealth. 

But sadly they would have to buff thieves survivability to counter longer times with out stealth.  Also remove the ability to remove reveal. 

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, wolfer.7945 said:

Stealth is mostly good where it is.   Save for the Deadeye dodge stealth.   The reveal on that should be like twice as long.  And we need more ways to remove stealth. 

But sadly they would have to buff thieves survivability to counter longer times with out stealth.  Also remove the ability to remove reveal. 

Shadow Meld doesn't remove revealed anymore. Agree with most of that about DE though. Except, I wanted to take out Silent Scope and Shadow Meld for better Kneel boosts but then they went and adjusted those two things, so it's kind of alright and the new Kneel is a lot of fun. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by kash.9213

[Gehenna.3625]

14 hours ago, wolfer.7945 said:

Stealth is mostly good where it is.   Save for the Deadeye dodge stealth.   The reveal on that should be like twice as long.  And we need more ways to remove stealth. 

Considering you can't see your target when it's stealthed, I'd be really interested to know what you're thinking of in ways to remove stealth.

14 hours ago, wolfer.7945 said:

But sadly they would have to buff thieves survivability to counter longer times with out stealth.  Also remove the ability to remove reveal. 

I can get behind thieves getting more health instead of stealth, but they also have survivability with strong mobility. Stealth gets them out of combat so their survivability is all about getting out of combat. But you can do that with high mobility or stealth. It just seems to me that both is too much.

 

Edit: In fact I would say the same for the Guardian and Elementalist. Give them more health so they can tone down the blocks and boons on these classes. But that's off topic of course.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Gehenna.3625

[kash.9213]

5 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Considering you can't see your target when it's stealthed, I'd be really interested to know what you're thinking of in ways to remove stealth.

I can get behind thieves getting more health instead of stealth, but they also have survivability with strong mobility. Stealth gets them out of combat so their survivability is all about getting out of combat. But you can do that with high mobility or stealth. It just seems to me that both is too much.

 

Edit: In fact I would say the same for the Guardian and Elementalist. Give them more health so they can tone down the blocks and boons on these classes. But that's off topic of course.

Within both Stealth and mobility, the mitigation comes from the use of space, because full damage and control modifiers will still hit you, and other classes have a lot of attacks that make full use of that space you're trying to move around in to maybe land a directional attack while they're also partially or fully mitigating the kind of damage or control the thief needs to fully avoid. You kind of have to maintain an M7 cycle on Deadeye if you want to ride on boons or whatever.

Specter can kind of fight group or 1v? but it can't bug out like DE or something else can. It can stick around in a smaller area that's lit up longer, especially with Shroud that kind of has a mix of mitigation types, but they would need to dominate. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by kash.9213

[Xenesis.6389]

You know, an actual funny fix to stealth would be, when you go into stealth, your enemies can't see you, but you also can't see where your enemies are! Then it would mostly only be used for escapes, would stop the combat spam of it, would make group usage scary and unpredictable but exciting when pulled off, are you doing the ambushing or are you showing up to an ambush? Actually this effect should be what blind does, not missing your next attack, but you actually not seeing anyone for the duration (Everquest mmo use to have a black screen when you got blinded). Ah well, stealth is never going to change in this game, even though the votes look pretty lopsided to none/some/rework.

[Zok.4956]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:52 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Totally surprised thieves aren't up in here voting for the un-nerf shadow meld option.

Why should they? As long as Anet's staff love thieves and creates mechanics for their own benefit, the class and its stealth will be safe. 😉

 

[kash.9213]

14 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Why should they? As long as Anet's staff love thieves and creates mechanics for their own benefit, the class and its stealth will be safe. 😉

 

They love them so much they don't play them when they play WvW. Brilliant. Kind of weird though since so many thief nerfs were born from the spvp and wvw forums. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by kash.9213