Celestial Gear needs to go, these builds are unfun and boring to fight against as well as to play.

[Ketharius.9018]

I'm just adding another thread to the many topics. The fact that it takes no effort to 1vX in celestial gear through or to outsustain most other builds by just brainlessly spamming your sustain and incredibly long lasting boost is stupid. Cele covers up way too many mistakes and makes fights last way too long while invalidating builds that require a much higher understanding of the game to succeed, but against cele builds a couple of mistakes is the end of you while the cele player can make a plethora of mistakes and still rebound from them all. Why do my celestial builds have more power, more condi damage, and nearly comparable crit through perma boons and traits than builds that need to sacrifice stuff? If I swap to cele I can just shrug off most power and pure condi builds without even trying because they had to sacrifice stuff I didn't in order to make those builds "work." Too many classes have too many builds that work too well with cele stats, it's stupid all around. It takes way too many resources to "adapt" and "counter" groups running full celestials comps AND Minstrel supports, like wtf is even the point of logging on nowadays?

Cele gear was originally buffed to make PvE lives easier, you can nerf Cele gear and it would still be an OP crutch for PvE casuals, it has no reason to be as strong as it is right now in WvW. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

32 minutes ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

I'm just adding another thread to the many topics. The fact that it takes no effort to 1vX in celestial gear through or to outsustain most other builds by just brainlessly spamming your sustain and incredibly long lasting boost is stupid.

No effort as in you still took the target down though you used more numbers and zerged it. Point is it distracted you from getting back to that zerg you were running with?

32 minutes ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

Cele covers up way too many mistakes and makes fights last way too long while invalidating builds that require a much higher understanding of the game to succeed,

Invalidating because you should have 1 shot it and didn't. Interesting so the game should be about who has the fast internet connection to the server?

 

32 minutes ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

but against cele builds a couple of mistakes is the end of you while the cele player can make a plethora of mistakes and still rebound from them all.

So when your one shot or rotation failed and you were prepared for them to shot back you fell since you were a paper tiger looking to jump other paper tigers you needed to come say I created a build that needed a pile of people to work and my zerg wasn't around.

 

32 minutes ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

Why do my celestial builds have more power, more condi damage, and nearly comparable crit through perma boons and traits than builds that need to sacrifice stuff?

Wow. Yup while on my full condi builds all that extra power/prec sure helped. While on my power builds all that extra condi/expertise helped them. So are you running Cele on all your builds? sPvP already fell to the propaganda, head there.

32 minutes ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

 

If I swap to cele I can just shrug off most power and pure condi builds without even trying

Sure, have a bridge you want sell?

 

32 minutes ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

Too many classes have too many builds that work too well with cele stats, it's stupid all around.

As in they have been adding more hybrid elites builds over time and now Cele has more of a role and people are not liking that its not just the power versus cele back and forth. Sorry you have to deal with more diversity in the game play. esports ======> that way.

32 minutes ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

It takes way too many resources to "adapt" and "counter" groups running full celestials comps AND Minstrel supports, like wtf is even the point of logging on nowadays?

Full groups? This sounds like a Monty Python skit. Are they calling you silly English Kiiiinigggitts?

32 minutes ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

Cele gear was originally buffed to make PvE lives easier, you can nerf Cele gear and it would still be an OP crutch for PvE casuals, it has no reason to be as strong as it is right now in WvW. 

So 6 of you jumped one player and it took a while for you to zerg them down so its off to the forums you go. -1 here for removing build diversity.

[flyingplanet.6912]

42 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So 6 of you jumped one player and it took a while for you to zerg them down so its off to the forums you go. -1 here for removing build diversity.

@TheGrimm.5624 Again, too late to say about this man. Where were you for last ~2yrs when stats were getting deleted in pvp. This is the trend anet decided for themselves. You gotta accept it :)

[Hotride.2187]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 -1 here for removing build diversity.

"build diversity"

The only diversity there is with cele right now is, are you fighting a cata/scrapper or are you fighting anything else. The cata or scrapper can do decent power dmg on top of the condis, the rest is just condi vomit. And of course they are all tanky af.

Boring, watching the paint dry fights is all there is in roaming right now, thanks to cele. Enjoy though, I only afk in wvw at this point while doing something else. No point in investing actual time in it.

[senftube.6081]

Cele is literally the jack for all things. Do good DMG? Check. Boon Duration? CHECK. Have good sustain? CHECK. Do  good condi DMG? CHECK. Do have overall more Stats? CHECK.

 

 

[blp.3489]

I won't be convinced until someone posts a truly OP cele build that I can win with. 😁

Btw, just how long are these long fights anyway?  And isn't endurance a virtue?

[Zero.3871]

cant agree with OP.

1. cele is a hybrid playstyle that is meant to create sustained fights . obviously, everyone that is aiming for 1 shotting an cheesing opponents, will be somewhat frustrated since cele is not easy 1 shottable, though it still is possible.

2. claiming it is IN GENERAL unfun is wrong, since OP can only speak for himself. 

3. claiming it can easily 1vX while the x also can play celestial makes no sense at all.

4. and in fact cele has not more power then only power builds, and not more condi then only condi builds. even on e.g. full power builds you can put in enough concentration and boon duration buffs with runes and more, that you can achieve high boon uptimes. dont see why full power builds wouldnt have access to boons like cele.

5. there are enough builds that are at least equally strong as cele , like builds that rely on high uptime of e.g. invis, blocks, invulns. that way e.g. builds on mesmer, thief,... can easily outsustain several players while being capable of 1 shotting. so this builds are at least as viable as cele builds are.

OP should stop searching for excuses for lack of success at the game. if you are a very good player it doesnt matter what builds people play, you will easily win 99,9% of your fights by pure skill diff.  if you cant, u are just not good enough.

 

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Zero.3871 said:

1. cele is a hybrid playstyle that is meant to create sustained fights . obviously, everyone that is aiming for 1 shotting an cheesing opponents, will be somewhat frustrated since cele is not easy 1 shottable, though it still is possible.

It's not just glass that strugglers vs cele. Everything not cele struggles vs cele (and cele vs cele can be pretty stale - but there is simply no better counter). The fact that all you cele defenders aren't even considering anything but full glasss "oneshot" builds or cele shows this pretty clearly. And that's the problem.

1 hour ago, Zero.3871 said:

4. and in fact cele has not more power then only power builds, and not more condi then only condi builds. even on e.g. full power builds you can put in enough concentration and boon duration buffs with runes and more, that you can achieve high boon uptimes. dont see why full power builds wouldnt have access to boons like cele.

Cele builds have better sustain and dmg that non cele builds. You can not have the same amount of dmg and sustain in one build with anything else. There is no alternative and there is no counter but running cele yourself.

1 hour ago, Zero.3871 said:

5. there are enough builds that are at least equally strong as cele,

No there aren't.

1 hour ago, Zero.3871 said:

OP should stop searching for excuses for lack of success at the game. if you are a very good player it doesnt matter what builds people play, you will easily win 99,9% of your fights by pure skill diff.  if you cant, u are just not good enough.

 

This isn't about someone complaining about losing to something. This is a complaint about a glaring imbalance.

 

I have been abusing cele ever since it got buffed and i'm winning the vast majority of my fights unless i'm getting zerged. The whole "you are only crying because you lose to cele" argument is invalid.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Zyreva.1078

[andrewlcl.8176]

Take away cele, and we will have the trailblazer/minstrel meta. Take those away and we will have the foo-zerka one-shot/Dire meta.

 

And let's not get started on how many of the newest elites are so overperforming, that they have become overplayed. 

 

So go ahead and knock yourself out. Open a can of worms. The game has its great and fun bits, but I don't think "balance" is one of them. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by andrewlcl.8176

[MalekithDG.6124]

1 hour ago, Zero.3871 said:

cant agree with OP.

1. cele is a hybrid playstyle that is meant to create sustained fights . obviously, everyone that is aiming for 1 shotting an cheesing opponents, will be somewhat frustrated since cele is not easy 1 shottable, though it still is possible.

2. claiming it is IN GENERAL unfun is wrong, since OP can only speak for himself. 

3. claiming it can easily 1vX while the x also can play celestial makes no sense at all.

4. and in fact cele has not more power then only power builds, and not more condi then only condi builds. even on e.g. full power builds you can put in enough concentration and boon duration buffs with runes and more, that you can achieve high boon uptimes. dont see why full power builds wouldnt have access to boons like cele.

5. there are enough builds that are at least equally strong as cele , like builds that rely on high uptime of e.g. invis, blocks, invulns. that way e.g. builds on mesmer, thief,... can easily outsustain several players while being capable of 1 shotting. so this builds are at least as viable as cele builds are.

OP should stop searching for excuses for lack of success at the game. if you are a very good player it doesnt matter what builds people play, you will easily win 99,9% of your fights by pure skill diff.  if you cant, u are just not good enough.

 

"Skill" in GW2 lol. This forum is fun! I am going to enjoy my time spent here.

[Polar.8634]

I don't like celestial only because it makes other hybrid sets useless. Zealot, Marshal and others, they have no meaning now, as cele will do damage and heal/boon/tankiness whatever you would want to mix in better. If they shaved stat value evenly on cele, so overall value would match other sets, would be cool.

[Riba.3271]

Celestial is very busted yes and I think we can all agree that they buffed celestial for sake of PvE open world, not for WvW.

 

So we need a solution that doesn't ruin PvE balance as WvW players are like stepsons that comes after the real ones: PvE casuals. I would say tune down concentration and expertise stats in WvW to around 60% effectiveness. Not sure why we need permaprotection and 10s+ condition applications anyways.

 

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, andrewlcl.8176 said:

Take away cele, and we will have the trailblazer/minstrel meta. Take those away and we will have the foo-zerka one-shot/Dire meta.

Unlike cele, trailblazer goes down cause it doesn't have the healing and boon uptime cele has. Minstrel is already meta for zergs and smaller groups with supports. Can't say I'm a big fan of minstrel but at least you are forced into a role. You are not a tank that does dmg that does support...

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, flyingplanet.6912 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 Again, too late to say about this man. Where were you for last ~2yrs when stats were getting deleted in pvp. This is the trend anet decided for themselves. You gotta accept it 🙂

I stopped sPvPing and said no more, I stopped buying gems weekly from them and said, you are going the wrong way. I spoke with my wallet and told them no. I do the same in WvW. 🙂

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

"build diversity"

The only diversity there is with cele right now is, are you fighting a cata/scrapper or are you fighting anything else. The cata or scrapper can do decent power dmg on top of the condis, the rest is just condi vomit. And of course they are all tanky af.

Boring, watching the paint dry fights is all there is in roaming right now, thanks to cele. Enjoy though, I only afk in wvw at this point while doing something else. No point in investing actual time in it.

 Who uses Cele on Scrapper lol, its a power build, and I have 4 Engis.

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, Yunari.9065 said:

Cele is literally the jack for all things. Do good DMG? Check. Boon Duration? CHECK. Have good sustain? CHECK. Do  good condi DMG? CHECK. Do have overall more Stats? CHECK.

 

 

Do lackluster unless the Core or Elite is Hybrid, check.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Sorry stop trying to witch hunt Cele that it works on all builds. It doesn't. It has its place as do others. Again if you find outliers that are over the top, then share class/elite/traits/weapons. But the Monty Python burn the witch routine, not so much.

[andrewlcl.8176]

7 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 Who uses Cele on Scrapper lol, its a power build, and I have 4 Engis.

Jen does.

 

Running marauder gear myself, but at least some players consider celestial reasonable for scrapper. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 minutes ago, andrewlcl.8176 said:

Jen does.

 

Running marauder gear myself, but at least some players consider celestial reasonable for scrapper. 

Do you play this build?

[Hotride.2187]

34 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 Who uses Cele on Scrapper lol, its a power build, and I have 4 Engis.

The power gear versions dies in 2 seconds if focused. Not so on cele (as usual).

Though cele scrapper is not new, just the old version was purely condi.

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 minute ago, Hotride.2187 said:

The power gear versions dies in 2 seconds if focused. Not so on cele (as usual).

Though cele scrapper is not new, just the old version was purely condi.

Usually have more than half my heath in barrier on the power versions and that's without boons and diving deep on a zerg. The Cele version tests were dead way before that. Is this a Zerk power version?

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Usually have more than half my heath in barrier on the power versions and that's without boons and diving deep on a zerg. The Cele version tests were dead way before that. Is this a Zerk power version?

I'm comparing the usual marauder+zerk scrapper (pistol/shield usually for survival) to the cele hammer version I've fought in roaming. With players who focus and do dmg, not some zerg that doesn't care where you are (or some randoms at a camp).

[andrewlcl.8176]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Do you play this build?

Nope. The build I use is actually old and outdated. It was from Metabattle where marauder gear was used, and the focus was generating barrier through dealing physical damage. 

 

I had pretty good results with that build. Could take a lot of punishment and also hit reasonably hard, while supporting the team in group encounters. It seemed pretty nuts actually, to have something that had so much utility and group support, while being a bruiser on its own.

 

Looking at Metabattle now, their explosive hammer scrapper build now uses celestial as well. 

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Usually have more than half my heath in barrier on the power versions and that's without boons and diving deep on a zerg. The Cele version tests were dead way before that. Is this a Zerk power version?

Barrier is capped at half health, so you can't have more. Not that it matters, if that zerg turned on you you'd be dead within a second either way. You are just describing a situation where you are getting hard carried by your zerg and your build doesn't matter at all, which further supports that don't have much knowledge about balance, especially at small scale.

[Ketharius.9018]

17 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Quote

No effort as in you still took the target down though you used more numbers and zerged it. Point is it distracted you from getting back to that zerg you were running with?

No I solo roam mostly, I don't know what you're trying to project here. I don't run with zergs or play around zergs.

Quote

Invalidating because you should have 1 shot it and didn't. Interesting so the game should be about who has the fast internet connection to the server?

No? What the heck is this supposed to mean? I want back and forth fights where there are risks and you are rewarded for appropriately using your skills at the correct time, as well as being punished for making mistakes, things Cele gear doesn't allow.
 

Quote

So when your one shot or rotation failed and you were prepared for them to shot back you fell since you were a paper tiger looking to jump other paper tigers you needed to come say I created a build that needed a pile of people to work and my zerg wasn't around.

I don't play 1 shot cheese builds so I don't know what you're projecting here as well. I don't even know how to translate this.
Unless you're just being cute?
 

Quote

 

Wow. Yup while on my full condi builds all that extra power/prec sure helped. While on my power builds all that extra condi/expertise helped them. So are you running Cele on all your builds? sPvP already fell to the propaganda, head there.

Sure, have a bridge you want sell?

 

You're not using Cele gear properly if this is how you think. <-- This is on one of the worse elite specs to use Cele gear on btw, the better classes can get even more ridiculous stats. I have 1500 condi damage in cele gear while running a condi build because I have perma 25 might, vigor, perma fury, perma prot, perma regen, and perma whatever else the class I am using can provide, so while I'm condi I am still doing 3k power worth of damage and 60%-70% crit chance (80%+ with some classes) crit chance and ~200% ferocity. With Trailblazer gear I have ~1500-1700 condi damage give or take, but no boon duration, no healing power, and no 3k power and the other crit stats. You can play a condi build and deal a kitten load of power damage inadvertently because ALL condi skills have power coefficients whether you like it or not. You can even play power builds with the same screenshot of stats I posted and your random condis will tick hard even if you don't focus on condis, a lot of skills still apply condi.

 

Quote

As in they have been adding more hybrid elites builds over time and now Cele has more of a role and people are not liking that its not just the power versus cele back and forth. Sorry you have to deal with more diversity in the game play. esports ======> that way.

This isn't Hybrid, Hybrid would be something like Grievous, Commander, Diviner, Plaguedoctor, Crusader, etc. Those are hybrids, Cele does it all, that's not hybrid.
 

Quote

 

Full groups? This sounds like a Monty Python skit. Are they calling you silly English Kiiiinigggitts?

So 6 of you jumped one player and it took a while for you to zerg them down so its off to the forums you go. -1 here for removing build diversity.

 

I'm the solo player being jumped by groups of 6 cele idiots who can't fight and are too scared to engage enemies unless they have their cele lovers around.  Whenever I put on cele I can 1vX without putting in any effort and on classes I don't know how to play properly because of how stupid easy the game becomes. If I play my main in cele gear I end up logging out because of how monotonous and boring fights are due to all the sustain and perma boons REGARDLESS of me winning or losing.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Ketharius.9018