Heart of thorns is like a dream

[Cuks.8241]

One of the best maps/worlds in all gaming imo. I wish they would go back and rebalance, rescale metas for todays powers. Its just the cherry on the top, the culmination of everything going on on the maps and it feels a bit underwhelming when all the bosses die in the first push/phase. Who doesnt like a nice picnic.

Oh and disable mounts during the Mouth of mordy fight.

[Firebeard.1746]

Post PoF HoT content feels way better. I was a noob when I first got into the game in HoT Era and I could never tell what was going on and was constantly dying. 

Later, coming back in 2018 it felt way better after getting my hands on the skyscale and learning how to play elite specs with better gear. It was really punishing going from core tyria to HoT back in the day. 

I'm glad you enjoy the content. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Solvar.7953 said:

To me, the biggest problem with Tangled Depth (and any similar maps) is that the map (brought up via the M command) still makes navigation difficult, even if you have explored the entire map.  It is just hard to tell where blocking walls/paths are, how to get from point A to point B, etc.

That may be the point of the map, but figuring out how to navigate maps is not something I find particular fun.  If the full size map somehow conveyed better information, this wouldn't be as much a problem.

 

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of what the map is designed to do.  You can follow every marked pathway on the map.  Every layer transition is appropriately marked.  So if you wanted to use the map to get from A to B, you can do that. 

The reason it feels like you can't use the map is because most of the completion objectives don't have marked pathways leading to them at all.

You may also notice that all of the events occur in the areas that are marked, near waypoints and wallows.  

The idea here is to present a map that is easy to access for events, but challenging to explore to completion.  If that were understood going in, you wouldn't use the map to reach completion objectives as you'd know that following marked paths is mostly useless for this purpose.

So how are you supposed to navigate this map to completion?  That's the beauty of it.  You're meant to put down the map and explore.  Why is there an updraft there?  Where does that unmarked cave go?  That's how.

Of course, not everyone enjoys that style of exploration.  But I do wish more people understood that it isn't a poorly designed map that causes the frustration.  They could have added pathways and layer transition icons leading to objectives.  They just didn't because they wanted to create a true exploration challenge.

 

 

[CoffeePlease.3082]

To this day Tangled Depths remains one of my favorite maps. The sheer scope of the design is so impressive, and it accomplished its goals in being mazey and dangerous. I know a lot of players hate the map, but honestly for myself it's one of the most fun exploration maps in the game. I remember the first time I found the underwater part and eventually the area where you can now fish, I had already been playing on the map for so long and thought I had seen it all. But nope here is a whole other layer I didn't even know about. Very cool imo, I wouldn't want every zone to be like TD but I would enjoy at least 1 popping up every now and then. 

As much as I enjoyed PoF, that was one of the things that felt missing for me. Everything felt flat and simple, which I can only assume was done intentionally due to possibly the mounts being added but maybe more likely the feedback from HoT maps. 

[Doam.8305]

Hot was the first expansion so expectations were very high people held it to WoW standards in regards to number of maps.  Mix in the fact that we were promised a full set of legendary weapons at launch only for it to be pull backed. Raids werent what people expected and toxic raiders set in fast.  Those promised legendaries over the years were released but far from what people expected after preordering. Plus day one of HoT came to a crashing halt the game was too buggy. That guitar playing **** wouldnt let anyone continue the story. Plus there was a way to get everyone to crash at once.

HoT hands down had the most bugs out of any expac launch. People started posting Half Expac Mike all over the place hence why PoF remains the pinnacle for moat people heck PoF and its mounts defined the game till this day.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Having played all the LW and Expansion content to this point I have to say that HoT maps and the LWS3 maps are some of the most fun ones in the game. The maps we did get with IBS were good as well, but I feel like we were robbed of a good story there in the end due to real world events. But, yeah the story in HoT need more umph.

PoF and LWS4 had some great story, but the maps are far less fun.

EoD... took the wrong lessons from HoT and PoF and made something weaker as a result. There are some good things in that expac, but if I'm just playing the game for fun I don't see myself going back there again, same with PoF maps.

SotO the storytelling has started to get better again. The two initial maps I liked, but I don't see them holding up over time like the HoT or LWS3 maps. All in all this will be the second-best expansion behind HoT unless the next map is utterly amazing and dynamic. 

[Sindust.7059]

It's not HoT maps that are awesome, it's just Verdant Brink. Tangled Depths is a matter of taste, and in the opinion of a lot of players (including mine) the absolutely worst map of the game, which would cancel out the awesomeness of Verdant Brink. And the other maps are just as forgettable as those in the later expansions, but with more invisible walls.

[mazut.4296]

Op I'm with you, but to many whiners pushed the game back toward flat and linear maps. VB and TD maps are amazing. 

[RisingDawn.5796]

On 5/19/2023 at 9:00 PM, Loboling.5293 said:

HoT was an amazing experience when it came out and even now it's still very good. I found the nerfs a bit heavy handed, but I realize that more people wanted it than not. Still PoF and EoD pale in comparison to HoT. 

 

The only thing I didn't like about HoT was the effects it had on PvP, but that got fixed over time and the game found this perfect rhythm that will probably never be recreated. That was also before I hit the daily cap, or knew about it, so my motivation to log in daily was stronger, so my attachment to my character was stronger as well.

I went in with an engineer, mostly because the idea of fighting a plant dragon with a flamethrower seemed like a match made it heaven. I loved the idea of building little droids you could send out to carry out tasks. Good times for sure.

Glad new players are still enjoying discovering that expansion. It'll always be my favorite expansion in any MMO to date. Again minus shield Chrono season 1😵

Sorry for the double reply, the forum servers seemed to malfunction.

Edited November 7, 2023 by CrimsonOneThree.5682

[RisingDawn.5796]

On 5/19/2023 at 9:00 PM, Loboling.5293 said:

HoT was an amazing experience when it came out and even now it's still very good. I found the nerfs a bit heavy handed, but I realize that more people wanted it than not. Still PoF and EoD pale in comparison to HoT. 

 

The only thing I didn't like about HoT was the effects it had on PvP, but that got fixed over time and the game found this perfect rhythm that will probably never be recreated. That was also before I hit the daily cap, or knew about it, so my motivation to log in daily was stronger, so my attachment to my character was stronger as well.

I went in with an engineer, mostly because the idea of fighting a plant dragon with a flamethrower seemed like a match made it heaven. I loved the idea of building little droids you could send out to carry out tasks. Good times for sure.

Glad new players are still enjoying discovering that expansion. It'll always be my favorite expansion in any MMO to date. Again minus shield Chrono season 1😵

PvP and WvW suffered, due to balancing issues due to the new Elite specs and the change to stability months before HoT iirc. Also the fact,  every Alpine  map was replaced with the Desert Borderlands.

[babak.3654]

Agreed, HoT was the highlight of the game for me. It was at its best before the difficulty was reduced and before the introduction of mounts with PoF.

[AliamRationem.5172]

19 hours ago, Doam.8305 said:

Hot was the first expansion so expectations were very high people held it to WoW standards in regards to number of maps.  Mix in the fact that we were promised a full set of legendary weapons at launch only for it to be pull backed. Raids werent what people expected and toxic raiders set in fast.  Those promised legendaries over the years were released but far from what people expected after preordering. Plus day one of HoT came to a crashing halt the game was too buggy. That guitar playing **** wouldnt let anyone continue the story. Plus there was a way to get everyone to crash at once.

HoT hands down had the most bugs out of any expac launch. People started posting Half Expac Mike all over the place hence why PoF remains the pinnacle for moat people heck PoF and its mounts defined the game till this day.

PoF was great.  It brought us a lot of content and a fantastic mount system, then launched quickly into LS4, which brought a lot more content.  However, I personally thought the maps were a letdown after what HoT delivered.  I liked the aesthetic well enough, but the return to core style flat layouts with hearts, a sparse offering of one-off events, and weak metas made PoF maps feel quite boring and unrewarding, in my opinion.  I feel like HoT got all of this stuff right, but because the average player at the time couldn't handle difficulty above Queensdale and became frustrated the moment they couldn't map complete by walking a straight line, the kneejerk reaction from ANet was to regress to the core design.

It's unfortunate because I really don't think they have the resources to do anything as ambitious as HoT now.  We'll likely never see anything like it again.

 

[Perisemiotics.4579]

Tangled Depths is still my favorite map; the bewilderment of going into Verdant Brink for the first time is unforgettable. Hopefully you didn't use mounts or at least stopped using them soon enough in order to fully take in the experience.

However PoF was very special as well - certainly not as challenging or innovative but in terms of map art and design I'd argue it's even superior to HoT - The Dwarven Ruins in the Highlands or the Branded wasteland in Vabbi never get old.