CC kills this game

[Ashlin.3708]

The mechanics wrapped around using CC to break the blue bars is fine, other then it doesnt scale correctly in most big fights. On the maps that are more dead, it completely kills any chance of trying to do the map with small groups. That though, Is the small issue.

The big issue is... How does anet think that spending entire fights without the ability to do anything is okay? CC is totally out of control, and all anet does is... add MORE!!!! I know you all have been there with me, and I probably get it harder because I play a tank build so I get most the agro. but, you get hit with an ability that locks all your skills for 10-12 seconds. ( that should NEVER be allowed, utterly broken. That aside... ) then you get hit with a knock back. then an ability that throws you up in the sky, then knocked down again, sweet you get 2 seconds of fighting! then knock down, then 10-12 seconds of skills locked, que endless circle. How does arenanet look at this and say... yeah... this is good game play... 

NO!!!! It's NOT!!! Its the worst gameplay I've ever had in any game in my life of 29 years of gaming!!!!!!!!!
CC KILLS games, it does NOT make them fun, Please I beg ANYONE someone educate Anet. CC is out of control and they are doing NOTHING to get it under control.

[AliamRationem.5172]

The hyperbole is strong with this one.  First, that "tank build = aggro" is nonsense.  Second, nothing is locking all of your skills for 10-12 seconds.  You also aren't getting chain CC'd like this without any cues.  You have dodge, block, invuln, stability, and stunbreaks.  Getting CC'd happens, but if you're getting hit this much you just aren't looking at your screen and reacting appropriately.  Pro tip: Stop tunnel-visioning your skillbar and if you click, stop!

[Doctor Hide.6345]

I am guessing you are talking OW here, but just learn to dodge and you are fine. It is not that bad. If you want a CC fest, you should try WvW where you can get locked down easy if you make a mistake and accidently jump into a zerg. Not that I have done that before.... >_>. *cough*

[Ashlin.3708]

1 minute ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

The hyperbole is strong with this one.  First, that "tank build = aggro" is nonsense.  Second, nothing is locking all of your skills for 10-12 seconds.  You also aren't getting chain CC'd like this without any cues.  You have dodge, block, invuln, stability, and stunbreaks.  Getting CC'd happens, but if you're getting hit this much you just aren't looking at your screen and reacting appropriately.  Pro tip: Stop tunnel-visioning your skillbar and if you click, stop!

^^^ Thats all false, one just play pvp with any skilled player that makes cc his thing. he'll keep you CC'd until your dead, I promise. 🙂  But pvp aside, there are many bosses who do that. 
For instance, fight a high judge from Vabbi, specially Sidan who summons mobs.  Several of his mobs have instant stuns, one of his moves is a hammer upswing, with no que, its instant, its one of his stand attacks, it throws you into the air, and then across the room. He also stuns you and ... locks your powers. 🙂  yes if you have a stun break you can cancel it, but I just listed how many stuns? good luck finding a build with that many stun breaks. 
That's just one fight, the game is littered with fights like that.

First, that "tank build = aggro" is nonsense. 
^^^ this is the first CUE I have that you have zero clue how the game mechanics work, go look into how to properly use toughness and you might figure out how that works. 🙂

[Ashlin.3708]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

I am guessing you are talking OW here, but just learn to dodge and you are fine. It is not that bad. If you want a CC fest, you should try WvW where you can get locked down easy if you make a mistake and accidently jump into a zerg. Not that I have done that before.... >_>. *cough*

Yeah WvW is a good place to experience it 😄 sometimes even PvP.
Honestly though, the pvp world, I could care less if its in, Its super cheap and would be nice if it was toned down a bit there, but  Usually people going heavy CC have very little going for them so you can counter.
It's PvE where I mainly care. Some events, some bosses, It just gets totally out of control. Think Halloween, why does EVERY SINGLE MUMMY have CC. what kind of logic is that? 
Add high toughness to your character, just have fun.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

5 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

Yeah WvW is a good place to experience it 😄 sometimes even PvP.
Honestly though, the pvp world, I could care less if its in, Its super cheap and would be nice if it was toned down a bit there, but  Usually people going heavy CC have very little going for them so you can counter.
It's PvE where I mainly care. Some events, some bosses, It just gets totally out of control. Think Halloween, why does EVERY SINGLE MUMMY have CC. what kind of logic is that? 
Add high toughness to your character, just have fun.

Yeah, I am fine with it as well in the PvP/WvW world. It is par for the course there. As for PvE, I guess it depends on the fight because I can't remember a heavy CC fight. There are the knockback mummies of course, but I just outrange them at times or learned their attack look to dodge the attack. My main problem is mainly visuals in big fights which is getting fixed, but yeah, sorry, I can't really think of CC causing me much problems in PvE.

[Obtena.7952]

Don't get the complaint really. How simple do you want this game to be? The CC is there as a strategic element to the game to add complexity to the encounters. If you take away CC, it's almost just a DPS race.. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Dante.1508]

I agree its terrible especially in HOT and PoF, its why i uninstalled again. I took a break for a few years.

[Ashlin.3708]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

Yeah, I am fine with it as well in the PvP/WvW world. It is par for the course there. As for PvE, I guess it depends on the fight because I can't remember a heavy CC fight. There are the knockback mummies of course, but I just outrange them at times or learned their attack look to dodge the attack. My main problem is mainly visuals in big fights which is getting fixed, but yeah, sorry, I can't really think of CC causing me much problems in PvE.

The high judge Sidan is a good example, he's just who I know off the top of my head, as posted below, the entire fight is almost pure CC. half of which has cue's but the other half are normal attacks.
and like the mummies in halloween, sometimes, sure you can learn the cues, but when theres 12 of them all doing it... your dodges and stun breaks have cooldowns. 
There is another high judge in vabbi, he has a massive CC attack, the aoe circle expands the entire battle field, its not meant to be dodged and cant be.its designed for you to cc him first and break his bar, or it sends you to the cells below. This is fine, other then the map is so inactive now, its near impossible to CC his bar and he ends up ending the fight with that one move. It caps on how many people it ends to the cells, but again, issue with CCing him is theres never enough people anymore.
Theres many more fights with heavy CC, but off the top of my head I cant accurately name them.

[Ashlin.3708]

Just now, Dante.1508 said:

I agree its terrible especially in HOT and PoF, its why i uninstalled again. I took a break for a few years.

Yeah ive bene achieve grinding in POF and thats where I've been noticing it so out of control. when there were 50 people per fight it wasnt as bad either, but now that the maps arent very active, the fights get insane.

[Ashlin.3708]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Don't get the complaint really. How simple do you want this game to be? The CC is there as a strategic element to the game to add complexity to the encounters. If you take away CC, it's almost just a DPS race.. 

Suu won. The game isnt just a DPS race already? the stun bar isnt bad, but I do think the scaling on it needs work, as i said, going back onto more inactive maps, some of the fights the bar is just so hard to break even with EMP you cant break it. I play herald and have like 6 moves that break the bar, add EMP for 7, and even with all that there are fights that there are 2-3 of us and we cant break that bar, even with EMPS.

But the complaint is more towards PvE enemies using CC against you. Its fine if they want it as a mechanic so you cant just face roll, I get it. Thats not bad.
But as I said before there are some fights Specially in POF now that its more dead, that you spend the whole fight unable to fight back because you are getting cc'd so much.

[Obtena.7952]

14 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

Suu won. The game isnt just a DPS race already? the stun bar isnt bad, but I do think the scaling on it needs work, as i said, going back onto more inactive maps, some of the fights the bar is just so hard to break even with EMP you cant break it. I play herald and have like 6 moves that break the bar, add EMP for 7, and even with all that there are fights that there are 2-3 of us and we cant break that bar, even with EMPS.

But the complaint is more towards PvE enemies using CC against you. Its fine if they want it as a mechanic so you cant just face roll, I get it. Thats not bad.
But as I said before there are some fights Specially in POF now that its more dead, that you spend the whole fight unable to fight back because you are getting cc'd so much.

Well, sure, some encounters are DPS races but to advocate they all go that direction by eliminating CC? That's not realistic. That CC is there to maintain some minimum difficulty because frankly, trivial content sucks and I don't believe that's a good direction for sustainable content in an MMO. 

Here is the reality you are encountering. There is a balance in GW2 between group and solo content. Yes it's unfortunate that it's hard for people to assemble people for older releases but that's not necessarily a problem with CC or even how the game is designed. It simply speaks to how the game is intended to be played.

A solution to this problem (one which HoT solved quite well IMO) is to have rewards that maintain value in these encounters, even as the game ages. That ensures high replayability and therefore, enough people to complete the content with. PoF is a fail in that regard. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Ashlin.3708]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, sure, some encounters are DPS races but to advocate they all go that direction by eliminating CC? That's not realistic. That CC is there to maintain some minimum difficulty because frankly, trivial content sucks. 

Here is the reality you are encountering. There is a balance in GW2 between group and solo content and yes it's unfortunate that it's hard for people to complete some content solo from older releases but that's not necessarily a problem with CC or even how the game is designed. It simply speaks to how the game is intended to be played. 

Im not saying get rid of it totally, Im saying get it under control, you are right about the balance, however,  I personally would say the balance is far from perfect.

I have just as much complaint about standing there face rolling the keyboard as much as everyone else, but CC should be controlled, it should be a mechanic, just as I like balance in everything not being just a DPS race, I also think CC shouldnt be face rolled out either. In this game I feel its very heavily face rolled. I'm a big lover of the Nioh and Darksoul series, and used to be a GM tank main on Overwatch. Im far from a stranger to CC use and counter play. Nioh and Darksouls you mess up once or miss your dodge, its gg, start all over.  but even in those games, they balanced it so it wasnt just chaos. Overwatch realized that getting rid of CC all together, made their game substantially better by a land slide, because as I said, CC kills games, it doesnt make for good gameplay. 

Now the way anet has done their system, yeah removing CC totally from the game would be a bad idea, they would have to do a total overhaul of the game mechanics. however, that doesnt mean CC has to be out of control either. THATS my problem, its not that its in the game, its that it's gotten totally out of control. 

[Obtena.7952]

That's the thing ... if the content you are doing was being played as intended (with a group), it wouldn't be out of control. You would have people sharing aggro, throwing AoE Stability, reviving downed people that are focused with CC and dying ... I mean, at SOME point in the game, people completed this content, so all the sudden CC isn't just 'out of control'. 

So again, it's not a problem of 'out of control' CC ... it's simply that you are trying to solo something that wasn't designed to be soloed. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

Im not saying get rid of it totally, Im saying get it under control, you are right about the balance, however,  I personally would say the balance is far from perfect.

I have just as much complaint about standing there face rolling the keyboard as much as everyone else, but CC should be controlled, it should be a mechanic, just as I like balance in everything not being just a DPS race, I also think CC shouldnt be face rolled out either. In this game I feel its very heavily face rolled. I'm a big lover of the Nioh and Darksoul series, and used to be a GM tank main on Overwatch. Im far from a stranger to CC use and counter play. Nioh and Darksouls you mess up once or miss your dodge, its gg, start all over.  but even in those games, they balanced it so it wasnt just chaos. Overwatch realized that getting rid of CC all together, made their game substantially better by a land slide, because as I said, CC kills games, it doesnt make for good gameplay. 

Now the way anet has done their system, yeah removing CC totally from the game would be a bad idea, they would have to do a total overhaul of the game mechanics. however, that doesnt mean CC has to be out of control either. THATS my problem, its not that its in the game, its that it's gotten totally out of control. 

Your opinions are getting more reasonable.  Did you get the salt out of your system? 

So here's the deal.  You found a boss or two that is intended for a large group and happens to have a lot of CC and you went at it solo or with too few players and got stomped.  This does not indicate a general problem with CC in the game and that is why you're catching flak here.  That and the fact that typing in all caps, adding extra exclamation points, and exaggerating everything isn't a great way to start a discussion.

[Ashlin.3708]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's the thing ... if the content you are doing was being played as intended (with a group), it wouldn't be out of control. You would have people sharing aggro, throwing AoE Stability, reviving downed people that are focused with CC and dying ... I mean, at SOME point in the game, people completed this content, so all the sudden CC isn't just 'out of control'. 

So again, it's not a problem of 'out of control' CC ... it's simply that you are trying to solo something that wasn't designed to be soloed. 

And I can completely agree. When I played POF on release, yeah it wasnt that bad, could be a bit of an annoyance, but doable. now, there are fights that are pure impossible, But anet isnt going to go back and fix those fights, we all know they wont, they never have, and never will. So how do you fix the problem so that once a map dies, which usually doesnt take long, go look at most EoD maps, they are already pretty much dead. I see more failed new Kaineng meta's then completed ones. So if we know anet wont go back and fix them, and we know maps arent going to stay populated as intended, how do we fix it? Most surefire way is, tone down the CC usage. 

Sure there are other ways to do it, but not ways that will likely work for anet.

[DexterousGecko.6328]

I know trash mobs with unavoidable CC and then doing zero damage while I'm on the ground definitely adds a strategic element to the game. It definitely makes the game more exciting that's for sure.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Just now, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

I know trash mobs with unavoidable CC and then doing zero damage while I'm on the ground definitely adds a strategic element to the game. It definitely makes the game more exciting that's for sure.

Heck I even get CC'd on the login screen!  This game is crazy!

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

And I can completely agree. When I played POF on release, yeah it wasnt that bad, could be a bit of an annoyance, but doable. now, there are fights that are pure impossible, But anet isnt going to go back and fix those fights, we all know they wont, they never have, and never will. So how do you fix the problem so that once a map dies, which usually doesnt take long, go look at most EoD maps, they are already pretty much dead. I see more failed new Kaineng meta's then completed ones. So if we know anet wont go back and fix them, and we know maps arent going to stay populated as intended, how do we fix it? Most surefire way is, tone down the CC usage. 

Sure there are other ways to do it, but not ways that will likely work for anet.

The game fix ... make it so the maps are places people want to go back to. Until Anet does that, the only way players can fix that is to ask for help. 

I mean, what do you mean by 'we' fix it? This isn't a problem 'we' can fix. What makes you think reducing the CC is the way that will likely work for Anet and there aren't other ways that would work for them?

I actually don't think toning down CC usage is a 'surefire' fix because the idea here shouldn't be to trivialize the encounters because 'dead' maps. That's just the solution you want. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

And I can completely agree. When I played POF on release, yeah it wasnt that bad, could be a bit of an annoyance, but doable. now, there are fights that are pure impossible, But anet isnt going to go back and fix those fights, we all know they wont, they never have, and never will. So how do you fix the problem so that once a map dies, which usually doesnt take long, go look at most EoD maps, they are already pretty much dead. I see more failed new Kaineng meta's then completed ones. So if we know anet wont go back and fix them, and we know maps arent going to stay populated as intended, how do we fix it? Most surefire way is, tone down the CC usage. 

Sure there are other ways to do it, but not ways that will likely work for anet.

Okay, so it's difficult to find enough players to participate in certain events.  Assuming that's true, why is the solution to reduce CC?  It seems to me that you really have to search around to find examples where this is a major issue and even then I don't see how you've established that this is the primary factor in why a map or event is not populated.  Isn't it more likely the issue is the map or event is unrewarding?  I think it's more likely if you removed the CC nothing would change.

[Ashlin.3708]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The game fix ... make it so the maps are places people want to go back to. Until Anet does that, the only way players can fix that is to ask for help. 

I mean, what do you mean by 'we' fix it? This isn't a problem 'we' can fix. What makes you think reducing the CC is the way that will likely work for Anet and there aren't other ways that would work for them?

I actually don't think toning down CC usage is a 'surefire' fix because the idea here shouldn't be to trivialize the encounters because 'dead' maps. That's just the solution you want. 

You are correct, theres not a lot of ways "we" can fix it.

however, toning down the CC being used by PvE enemies would limit how much anet would need to go back and adjust them.
there is already a scaling mechanic in the game to scale to the number of people, but no such scale exists for CC, at least not to my knowledge or one that I've seen, the amount of CC added for a large group is still the amount of CC used against a small group. 

As for it being a way that would work for Anet, Anet doesnt go back and change anything. very rarely ever. they release a spot, pay attention to it for a bit, then move on and go forward with new stuff. By lessening how much CC they sue to start with, it ensures there arent issues when the maps start to die.

It is a solution I want, I dont think it trivializes the encounters I actually think CC itself trivializes the encounters. You want encounters with more skill, you dont want CC. you want more attacks like in sun qua fractal. fast, takes accuracy to dodge, and good timing. Sun qua, has zero CC in it, and is still one of the hardest fractals for people who dont pay attention.

[Ashlin.3708]

10 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Okay, so it's difficult to find enough players to participate in certain events.  Assuming that's true, why is the solution to reduce CC?  It seems to me that you really have to search around to find examples where this is a major issue and even then I don't see how you've established that this is the primary factor in why a map or event is not populated.  Isn't it more likely the issue is the map or event is unrewarding?  I think it's more likely if you removed the CC nothing would change.

I feel my answer  to Obtena might help answer these too.

[Dawdler.8521]

23 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

You are correct, theres not a lot of ways "we" can fix it.

While you are under the efftect of CC you cant get hit by another similar CC ie diminishing returns for stacking CC, immo cant stack, stuns dont get reapplied while stunned, etc. 

Wasnt that hard to think of a fix.

Talking about WvW/PvP of course. If this thread is about PvE, it's laughable.

[Ashlin.3708]

3 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

While you are under the efftect of CC you cant get hit by another similar CC ie diminishing returns for stacking CC, immo cant stack, stuns dont get reapplied while stunned, etc. 

Wasnt that hard to think of a fix.

Talking about WvW/PvP of course. If this thread is about PvE, it's laughable.

Its about all, but your answer works for all of them, it is mostly concerning PvE though, its not laughable if you've played PoF or HoTs recently now that you have to do the fights in small teams now. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If this thread is about PvE, it's laughable.

I don't know about that chief. Most of OW is fine and in metas you have dozen of People soaking single target CC. But I'm pretty sure there are a couple of places and side events where you get absolutely hammered by single target CC, because Anet couldn't fathom you do anything in OW without your closest 10 friends.

Edited May 29, 2023 by SlayerXX.7138