June 27 for Elementalist

[scerevisiae.1972]

On 6/11/2023 at 10:33 PM, rotten.9753 said:

Still waiting for cata energy regen out of combat - druid has it

TBH energy should just be removed and a CD added.

[Helgaley.3619]

57 minutes ago, scerevisiae.1972 said:

TBH energy should just be removed and a CD added.

It already has a CD. It has both energy and a CD, and we've been asking for energy to be removed since the EOD specialization betas lol 

[rotten.9753]

3 hours ago, Helgaley.3619 said:

It already has a CD. It has both energy and a CD, and we've been asking for energy to be removed since the EOD specialization betas lol 

Or at least UI improvements, energy can't really be read precisely from the current one.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

The more i start to think about the spectacular sphere changes, the more i start to dislike them. The main problem with quickness on cata was never the cd on air attunement, the air sphere was completely fine. It gives one of the biggest aoe quick applications with a nice duration. 

Id argue the main problems with qcata today are: 1. The lack of energy gain while a sphere is up and 2. Having to break up in the middle of a rotation which leaves you with insufficient energy to pick up your normal rotation, especially since quickness always has the highest priority. 

Neither of these problems get solved, and in some way its even worse next patch. There's still no energy regen while having a sphere up, the energy bar is still way to small to accurately guess the amount of energy that you have, and to top it off you need even more energy to start your quickness buffs. By lowering the quickness uptime per sphere you'll need atleast 20 energy on your opener/after boss phases to have sufficient quick duration while your spheres are off cd. With the quickness only bound to air attunement in its current format you only need 10 energy (which can already be quite problematic already. 

 

[Helgaley.3619]

7 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

The more i start to think about the spectacular sphere changes, the more i start to dislike them. The main problem with quickness on cata was never the cd on air attunement, the air sphere was completely fine. It gives one of the biggest aoe quick applications with a nice duration. 

Id argue the main problems with qcata today are: 1. The lack of energy gain while a sphere is up and 2. Having to break up in the middle of a rotation which leaves you with insufficient energy to pick up your normal rotation, especially since quickness always has the highest priority. 

Neither of these problems get solved, and in some way its even worse next patch. There's still no energy regen while having a sphere up, the energy bar is still way to small to accurately guess the amount of energy that you have, and to top it off you need even more energy to start your quickness buffs. By lowering the quickness uptime per sphere you'll need atleast 20 energy on your opener/after boss phases to have sufficient quick duration while your spheres are off cd. With the quickness only bound to air attunement in its current format you only need 10 energy (which can already be quite problematic already. 

 

It also can't react to movement, so if you put the sphere down and the group moves, you're SOL for at least 15 seconds AND until you get enough energy to place it again. Catalyst is just a very poorly designed elite specialization in general, we could poke holes in it all day, just like you can with untamed. The hammer is CURSED. Lol. 

[Serephen.3420]

5 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

The more i start to think about the spectacular sphere changes, the more i start to dislike them. The main problem with quickness on cata was never the cd on air attunement, the air sphere was completely fine. It gives one of the biggest aoe quick applications with a nice duration. 

Id argue the main problems with qcata today are: 1. The lack of energy gain while a sphere is up and 2. Having to break up in the middle of a rotation which leaves you with insufficient energy to pick up your normal rotation, especially since quickness always has the highest priority. 

Neither of these problems get solved, and in some way its even worse next patch. There's still no energy regen while having a sphere up, the energy bar is still way to small to accurately guess the amount of energy that you have, and to top it off you need even more energy to start your quickness buffs. By lowering the quickness uptime per sphere you'll need atleast 20 energy on your opener/after boss phases to have sufficient quick duration while your spheres are off cd. With the quickness only bound to air attunement in its current format you only need 10 energy (which can already be quite problematic already. 

 

I didn't think of it that way...hmm 

That's a good point, I first thought it would help us be more flexible about sphere choice but that's true and I guess it's a sign of the problematic limitations of the energy system for catalyst. 

[TheBossVeigar.1306]

Most of the changes weren't bad tbh. I like the change to quickness Catalyst, but I still wish they added a passive energy generation to it, it'd definitely help a lot I think. Catalyst has always seemingly lacked quality of life...

 

I was VERY underwhelmed by the DPS Tempest buffs. While I can't complain as it is a free buff, I don't think it'll help much with the spec's core problems as DPS. With no numbers though I can't give full judgement on it.

[Serephen.3420]

14 hours ago, scerevisiae.1972 said:

TBH energy should just be removed and a CD added.

CD is already there, that's the thing😅

[draxynnic.3719]

Energy really feels like it's a leftover from when the sphere was sustained. It exists because a sustained effect has to have some limit. It can't be built up while a sphere is up because it wouldn't be much of a limit if someone was able to figure out a way to build energy faster than it drains.

But those considerations don't apply any more. 

[Serephen.3420]

42 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Energy really feels like it's a leftover from when the sphere was sustained. It exists because a sustained effect has to have some limit. It can't be built up while a sphere is up because it wouldn't be much of a limit if someone was able to figure out a way to build energy faster than it drains.

But those considerations don't apply any more. 

You are right,it is exactly that. And in some ways emergy would be more acceptable if it worked like that, but it currently does not. 

That's why I'm in the camp of energy is not required with the whole mechanic in its current state. It would need to be changed again to justify it.

[The Boz.2038]

I am amazed how they're sticking to the morbidly mind-puzzling design of arcane skills being "this is meant for power builds that are normally designed to crit all the time, and the super special ability of these skills is that they make you crit, which, if you want them, you can already do".
Baffling.

I like tossing out quickness with any jade sphere, though! My WvW zerger will love that.

[zetherin.8372]

Catalyst went through a phase during the EoD beta where it didn't have energy and that was the best phase. Then they re-added it back for launch and that was, IMHO, the biggest mistake for the class. I don't think energy serves any purpose other than being an annoyance. It's a large QoL detriment and the only reason I currently get turned off the spec. I absolutely love cata overall, annoyance of energy though is like water drip torture. After a little while I can't take it anymore. 

[Meva.8327]

As a D/D elementalist main in PVE and WvW since the vanilla days, I am not happy at all with the changes in Churning Earth.

Churning Earth in WvW is lethal in two particular ways: either when you immobilise your foes with Earthen Rush (skill 3 Earth) or when just before the end you teleport into your foes using Lightning Flash.

In PVE I use Churning Earth as my highest damage spell. When coupled with Fresh Air (cast Churning Earth then during animation swap to Air to get extra ferocity) it can hit for around 20k strike damage, plus some healthy stacks of bleeding and cripple.

Churning Earth is is a nice change of tempo from the normally very mobile and hyperactive D/D rotation. The cripple, bleed and channel seem to "slow down time" whilst you are building momentum for a grand, explosive finale.

I have the guilty pleasure of seeing WvW foes going "oh no here comes the big one" and trying to move out of Churning Earth's radius in panic.

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Meva.8327

[crosknight.3041]

just realized, dps alac tempest is most likely going to have to give up another dps trait now for alac in addition to the one needed. unless you are confidant you're not gonna be knocked/dazed/or stunned during your 4 second channel.

anet really botched the ball with tempest alac.

[zeyeti.8347]

Does anyone has an idea if the new dps trait for tempest is gonna be only power/only condi or both ?

I don't see it becoming power because you need a huge pack of boon duration for the alacrity as tempest dps , so the lack of précision and just the +5% crit. chance in air won't be enough , but a tempest condi/alac could see the day depending on this new trait.

[Serephen.3420]

21 hours ago, Meva.8327 said:

As a D/D elementalist main in PVE and WvW since the vanilla days, I am not happy at all with the changes in Churning Earth.

Churning Earth in WvW is lethal in two particular ways: either when you immobilise your foes with Earthen Rush (skill 3 Earth) or when just before the end you teleport into your foes using Lightning Flash.

In PVE I use Churning Earth as my highest damage spell. When coupled with Fresh Air (cast Churning Earth then during animation swap to Air to get extra ferocity) it can hit for around 20k strike damage, plus some healthy stacks of bleeding and cripple.

Churning Earth is is a nice change of tempo from the normally very mobile and hyperactive D/D rotation. The cripple, bleed and channel seem to "slow down time" whilst you are building momentum for a grand, explosive finale.

I have the guilty pleasure of seeing WvW foes going "oh no here comes the big one" and trying to move out of Churning Earth's radius in panic.

 

I am gonna miss that skill🥲

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Churning earth deal huge damage and it has its use with flash or stealth etc, but I used it more as a "defense" skill to scare players,to cripple and force to use stamina, as the 2sec cast time was a bit long but animation was impressive too. *And as blast combo finisher.

It will be regretted but a skill with some mobility and lower cast-time could be great too, more fluid. Yet I still find the changes on Earthen Rush and Burning Speed are worst than this one.
Please Anet, revert this mess.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[RazieL.5684]

i am excited for the new changes but please please please please do something about staff auto attacks velocity and cast time. It shouldn't be that hard and it won't break the game

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The Churning Earth change is a DPS buff.  Scale 3.5 over 2 seconds is less DPS than scale 3 over 0.8 seconds.  The radius is smaller, but quicker cast time means it is easier to hit things with.  It won't be as cool looking, but it's still going to crack heads open.  

[Noodle Ant.1605]

not that the current version of churning earth is any better, but i dont know why daggers (both mainhand and offhand) keep getting shoehorned into 130 melee range when there are already dedicated weapons for that (sword/half of hammer). its not as if pairing scepter/dagger isnt counterintuitive enough

understandably, burning speed and earthern rush were changed because they had signifcant offensive value attached to them. however, i cant see why some of this offensive value couldnt have been diverted into the #2 skills, which mightve made more sense (drakes breath being an obvious channel and ring of earth being the lowest range skill on mh dagger). earthern rush can remain if it means removing the leap from churning earth, but burning speed remains a real head scratcher when it sabotages itself and negates the extra range on literally every other skill that follows it

the question for churning earth is: why does it need to move? the skill wouldve worked fine with a lower commitment 360 range stationary cast and is now looking like a burning speed v2.0, which i dont think is needed

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

I  stepped in here to see what changes were coming for Ele due to the extreme OP of catalyst right now and find peeps complaining that there aren't good enough buffs. As a dedicated necro main I have seen nerf after nerf on Necro with small buffs to things which no one uses. Ele seems to get awesome buffs as is seen in Catalyst playing WvW, takes more then 2 players to down them the majority of time. The boon corruption nerf has made that even worse. Just wanted to point that out....carry on.

Edited June 21, 2023 by DaVid Darksoul.4985
misspell

[Serephen.3420]

1 hour ago, DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

I  stepped in here to see what changes were coming for Ele due to the extreme OP of catalyst right now and find peeps complaining that there aren't good enough buffs. As a dedicated necro main I have seen nerf after nerf on Necro with small buffs to things which no one uses. Ele seems to get awesome buffs as is seen in Catalyst playing WvW, takes more then 2 players to down them the majority of time. The boon corruption nerf has made that even worse. Just wanted to point that out....carry on.

Ele has gotten years of nerfs. It's only recently we got some love again but it is usually quickly undone most of the time leaving us back where we started. Or it is directed to areas no one felt the need for and actual issues are ignored.

I hope you're still enjoying your reaper buffs. One of the easiest and tankiest power classes to play right now. At least that wasn't entirely reverted yet.

But yes, boon corruption change sucks.

[Helgaley.3619]

1 hour ago, DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:

I  stepped in here to see what changes were coming for Ele due to the extreme OP of catalyst right now and find peeps complaining that there aren't good enough buffs. As a dedicated necro main I have seen nerf after nerf on Necro with small buffs to things which no one uses. Ele seems to get awesome buffs as is seen in Catalyst playing WvW, takes more then 2 players to down them the majority of time. The boon corruption nerf has made that even worse. Just wanted to point that out....carry on.

Show some solidarity with your fellow scholar profession - I think we should both be upset that the fun and actual playability of both our main classes has been eroded over the years, and this patch is doing nothing to address it. Yes, catalyst can be very tanky in pvp and especially wvw where it has access to celestial gear, but it's still just core ele with an F5, and it still feels like garbage to play in virtually every other game mode. 

[scerevisiae.1972]

On 6/13/2023 at 12:43 AM, Helgaley.3619 said:

It already has a CD. It has both energy and a CD, and we've been asking for energy to be removed since the EOD specialization betas lol 

sorry i meant a more restrictive CD if needed to balance.

or... a global F5 CD if needed so you can't just cycle through all 4 elements to drop 4 fields at once (although you can pretty much do that now).

my point is, it's all very balanceable with just CDs, no need to have a clunky AF "energy" resource that 1) we can't see easily cause it's tiny and 2) just adds tedium as you havw to go farm energy on ambient mobs in WVW and elsehwere before actually playing the game.  

[Serephen.3420]

55 minutes ago, scerevisiae.1972 said:

sorry i meant a more restrictive CD if needed to balance.

or... a global F5 CD if needed so you can't just cycle through all 4 elements to drop 4 fields at once (although you can pretty much do that now).

my point is, it's all very balanceable with just CDs, no need to have a clunky AF "energy" resource that 1) we can't see easily cause it's tiny and 2) just adds tedium as you havw to go farm energy on ambient mobs in WVW and elsehwere before actually playing the game.  

First there was no cd and just energy, then there was a low cd (5 seconds) with energy, then changed to 10 seconds....now15 seconds with energy. I don't think the cd needs to be much higher, especially with it being hammers only access to fields and the need for said fields to combo in them integral to catalyst functioning at all. 

It would be perfectly fine with its current cd and no energy.