Silly sword changes no one asked for [Merged]

[Mell.4873]

22 hours ago, Vulture.9351 said:

You'll just switch to another weapon but those of us that cared about sword-Ranger will be left with a weapon that is weaker AND bland af.

Like it was before this patch? Sword before was probably most unused weapon the Ranger had.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Levetty.1279]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:01 AM, Vulture.9351 said:

It's stronger but what exactly makes it fun now?

 

The thing that truly ticks me off about the people that love this is that at some point the damage will be nerfed. You'll just switch to another weapon but those of us that cared about sword-Ranger will be left with a weapon that is weaker AND bland af.

2 leaps and synergy between the skills.

If you want old Sword back mash the dodge button and bring lightning reflex. You will be just as ineffective.

[Sirius.4510]

I had a fun encounter with the more janky side of ranger sword yesterday. Playing Xera, she'd been pulled a little too close to the side of the platform - started my burst, sword 2 then 3, except sword 3 sent me through her as it sometimes does for... some reason, and that was enough to drop me off the side of the platform.

So yeah, cool. Don't know why the animation had to do that.

[Vulture.9351]

On 8/6/2023 at 3:10 PM, Levetty.1279 said:

2 leaps and synergy between the skills.

If you want old Sword back mash the dodge button and bring lightning reflex. You will be just as ineffective.

Synergy? Current sword has 0 synergy outside of 1v1'ing a ranged opponent in PvP with no cc of their own. Ooooh cripple! Real useful on enemies that aren't trying to run from you. Definitely worth having no more evasion than a core warrior now with no gain in survivability.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Vulture.9351

[Levetty.1279]

17 hours ago, Vulture.9351 said:

Synergy? Current sword has 0 synergy outside of 1v1'ing a ranged opponent in PvP with no cc of their own. Ooooh cripple! Real useful on enemies that aren't trying to run from you. Definitely worth having no more evasion than a core warrior now with no gain in survivability.

Maybe you should look up what the word synergy means and try that reply again.

[Vulture.9351]

Yes, yes, it you do more damage to the guys you cripple. I am aware of that.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Hello.

Just a quick simple request.

Can Ranger Sword skill 3; Serpent Strike, be back to the roll animation before this one?

Please?

I don't understand why this was changed.

The roll attack animation is so much cooler; and doesn't justify having two attacks that are basically the same.

 

Thanks for your time and understanding. 

[Rico.5710]

Please no. The evade frame is still the same as before and the leap we have now is way more useful than rolling around the target

[Beddo.1907]

Nah, I want two dashes. The roll looked neat, but wasn't very useful. (in comparison)

Edited August 18, 2023 by Beddo.1907

[SoulGuardian.6203]

7 hours ago, ric.3875 said:

Please no.

Calm down.

7 hours ago, ric.3875 said:

The evade frame is still the same as before

It's not meant to be an evasive move.

It's an attack move. It's a sword. 

7 hours ago, ric.3875 said:

and the leap we have now is way more useful than rolling around the target

No its not.

How do you figure that out?

Before you could evade and attack at tge same time.

5 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Nah, I want two dashes

Why?

So you can run instead of fight!?

5 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

. The roll looked neat, but wasn't very useful. (in comparison)

Yes it was... more useful than what we have now... and it was an awesome combo and it would be now following sword 2 "Pounce".

[Levetty.1279]

4 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

It's not meant to be an evasive move.

 

 

4 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

No its not.

How do you figure that out?

Before you could evade and attack at tge same time.

Make up your mind.

[Rico.5710]

4 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Calm down.

I am, thanks. I just don't want sword to be made useless again.

 

4 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

It's not meant to be an evasive move.

It's an attack move. It's a sword. 

Lots of movement skills have evade frames baked in. The funcuality is still the same as your roll attack but now you can use it for (dis-)engaging too, it's just plan better than rolling in the dirt looking cool.

 

4 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Why?

So you can run instead of fight!?

Yes! Or to stick to your target, it's way more flexible now.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Make up your mind.

I swear the troll on that edit job you did is pretty impressive, almost made it look like they were contradicting themselves.

But, alas there is no contradiction.  

You can obviously evade and attack at the same time--or rather, could, before anet reduced sword to 'new and exciting ways to press W'.  

Wanna know why shortbow is so good? The #3 is an evade that sends you backward and gives swiftness--single handedly makes the weapon very dangerous.  They should have applied this to Hornet Sting by just reducing the animation and increasing the evade time, possibly upping the damage modifiers, then left everything else alone.

The only thing we can hope for is they are playing 3D chess here and sword has some hidden synergy with offhand mace to justify gutting all of the evasion / kiting abilities it had.  There is no other spin in the world to make two forward leaps seem like anything but copy/paste.

[Levetty.1279]

On 8/18/2023 at 11:23 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I swear the troll on that edit job you did is pretty impressive

I didn't edit anything. Please stop the childish insults.

[Mell.4873]

@SoulGuardian.6203

@Gotejjeken.1267

Have you been reading any of the responses, it's obvious the new sword is better. 

I don't think you can seriously say any Ranger mains actually used the sword before. I mean I'm sorry you liked is but almost no one used the clunky old animations. I remember even trying to solo stuff with the old Sword and just gave up, with the current Sword it amazing effective at timing the leaps to avoid enemy telegraphs. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I didn't edit anything. Please stop the childish insults.

Removing words isn't editing? As you clearly removed 'it's an attack move' and then left out all the context of the quoted reply to make it seem like a contradiction.  The only insult here is to my intelligence atm...

15 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

@SoulGuardian.6203

@Gotejjeken.1267

Have been reading any of the responses, it's obvious the new sword is better. 

I don't think you can seriously say any Ranger mains actually used the sword before. I mean I'm sorry you liked is but almost no one used the clunky old animations. I remember even trying to solo stuff with the old Sword and just gave up, with the current Sword it amazing effective at timing the leaps to avoid enemy telegraphs. 

 Since we have no statistics here other than 'almost no one used it' I'll just say anyone good on ranger used it to great effect.  It was hard for casuals to use, but so is the ranger class as a whole at a mid to high level.  Talking competitive of course, I'm not sure it has been used in PvE since all the DPS got removed when the AA animation was changed.

Basically, Sw/Wh and Sw/Dagger have always been very good.  The latter was THE evade coupling before the dagger #4 range nerf. 

Now sword is just objectively worse in every regard except damage.  If they nerf the damage of either leap the sword will actually be far worse than it was pre-change. 

[kharmin.7683]

As a ranger main, I used LB and Sw/D consistently, even before the previous sword changes.  I had to relearn the rotation for me to get the benefits from the evasion, which wasn't too difficult to do once it was relearned.  Granted, I don't play competitively, so I can't speak to MH sword there, but to say that no one used it is simply wrong.  The animations weren't clunky for me at all once I learned them.  Perhaps you gave up too quickly?  The current sword may be amazing to you for timing leaps, but the previous way was stronger for me and I was able to take great advantage of the Skirmishing trait line because of the movement.  Now, that trait line is pretty useless, for me at least.

 

EDIT:  But the point of this thread is that Anet made these changes when literally no one was asking for them.  Those who enjoyed sword enjoyed it a lot; others moved on to different weapons (like I assume you had when you gave up on trying sword).  Why Anet made this radical change is questionable in light of no one wanting or asking for it.

Edited August 20, 2023 by kharmin.7683

[Mell.4873]

@Gotejjeken.1267

@kharmin.7683

The answer is baked into the thread, the reason these changes were made is becouse no one used this weapon. 

I will give you the old Sword was stronger in PvP even if the damage was lower but in terms of popularity this is a PvE game.

PvP especially conquest accounts for not even 10% of the player base. Well over 50% of players play primarily PvE and this is where those changes are directed towards. PvP is a dying game mode, when was out last sPvP/WvW content drop? 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Mell.4873

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267

@kharmin.7683

The answer is baked into the thread, the reason these changes were made is becouse no one used this weapon. 

 

You have absolutely zero data to back up this claim.  Please stop making it.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267

@kharmin.7683

The answer is baked into the thread, the reason these changes were made is becouse no one used this weapon. 

 

Just as @kharmin.7683

Said: "You have zero evidence that's the case", and in fact, there are numerous threads in this very forum about people asking for changes to be reverted.

Not to mention the pre changes ideas/requests people made for this weapon.

Also @Gotejjeken.1267 is speaking in a very intelligent and logic way.

It is obvious these two people know their stuff about Ranger and the topic in hand.

Most important points at this stage.

1. They made changes nobody asked for.

(Or at least these were not the changes requested).

2. Old sword skill 3 was a lot more useful than what is now. 

3. Still does not justify 2 skills being exactly the same. Just with different names and slightly different animation.

4. The forum pop is only a small portion of the huge player base.

You will find people in-game tend to be more truthful and realistic, at least 90% of the time.

This, is offcourse subjective, and depending on the right time, place, and situation; players may give you different answers/feedback.

 

Question is: How many people are actually viable and truthful in order to gather proper data and create a statistical chart?

How many people would actually, truthfully be happy with Ranger Sword now and then?

All we have is speculation, at best, and knowing people can change their minds at sime point or another, does not change the FACT that the previous skill layout was much more effective than the current one.

It does not matter which lines of argument you want to present, or try manipulate other people's posts by "half smart" editing and making it look like a contradiction... to try undermine it; still does not change facts.

Facts are gathered from numbers... and numbers says that the previous version of Ranger sword was a lot more effective than the current nonsense. 

Full stop. Period.

[Zyreva.1078]

12 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Facts are gathered from numbers... and numbers says that the previous version of Ranger sword was a lot more effective than the current nonsense.

What numbers and facts are you talking about?

The fact that for the first time in this games history sword is used in PvE meta builds for more than just its autoattack? The fact that for the first time in idk how many years sword is used in a PvP meta build? The fact that nobody who wants old sword back used it in content where performance actually matters? No, roleplaying in open world does not count.

So please, show me those numbers you are talking about.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

2 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

What numbers and facts are you talking about?

The fact that for the first time in this games history sword is used in PvE meta builds for more than just its autoattack? The fact that for the first time in idk how many years sword is used in a PvP meta build? The fact that nobody who wants old sword back used it in content where performance actually matters? No, roleplaying in open world does not count.

So please, show me those numbers you are talking about.

Numbers that @Gotejjeken.1267 was talking about.

Including DPS, Overall damage output, Condition Damage, Overall performance, including 2 evades if you play MH sword and Dagger, just like @kharmin.7683 mentioned too.

Those kind of numbers.

It's there. You just gotta look for it... ir so you want me to do your homework for you too?

[Zyreva.1078]

I don't remember any numbers posted here and i'm not going through everything again, so can you please quote/link what you are talking about?

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Just now, Zyreva.1078 said:

I don't remember any numbers posted here and i'm not going through everything again, so can you please quote/link what you are talking about?

Do your own research.

[Zyreva.1078]

I did, and my conclusion is very clear.