Guardian is getting dual pistols

[kenji ural.1782]

To be honest, I'm so happy to be able to play as a sister of battle ! God kitten, holy warriors with guns and swords ! 

[albotelho.2931]

Holy gunslinger on the way! I think it will be pretty fun.

[Ultimaistanza.4793]

I hope one of the pistol skills is basically lobbing a Holy Hand Grenade. xD

[Saiyan.1704]

On 6/30/2023 at 10:39 AM, Marckan.9526 said:

I think the animation of the ultimate skill for Reaper from Overwatch would look really good as an AoE!

*jumps in a crowd, spins around with pistol#5*

"BOONS... BOONS... BOONS!"

[Infinity.2876]

I'm guessing the pistols will be offhand condi/mainhand power, vise versa, or both condi.

 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I'm hoping they will lean toward power offense on both pistols, and give scepter a condi rider to make it better for condition builds. We have enough OH support options and a condi OH, but only focus to support ranged power builds, which is only halfway good for ranged DPS. At least we'll have LB on all specs, but that's half measure and locks all 5 weapon skills, and it needs some work. 

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I'm hoping they will lean toward power offense on both pistols, and give scepter a condi rider to make it better for condition builds. We have enough OH support options and a condi OH, but only focus to support ranged power builds, which is only halfway good for ranged DPS. At least we'll have LB on all specs, but that's half measure and locks all 5 weapon skills, and it needs some work. 

I'm kinda wondering what sort of guardian they envision to be using pistols, since that might influence their design. If they're intended to be a witchhunter theme, they've already drawn that analogy with dragonhunter. Holy assassin, on the other hand, is more willbender, while a 'military commander' theme would be more firebrand. The first would push towards power, the last to condi, and willbender could go either way.

Personally, though, I'm leaning towards condi - it'd be nice if torch was no longer the only condi offhand available.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I'm kinda wondering what sort of guardian they envision to be using pistols, since that might influence their design. If they're intended to be a witchhunter theme, they've already drawn that analogy with dragonhunter. Holy assassin, on the other hand, is more willbender, while a 'military commander' theme would be more firebrand. The first would push towards power, the last to condi, and willbender could go either way.

Personally, though, I'm leaning towards condi - it'd be nice if torch was no longer the only condi offhand available.

A witch-hunter theme for the pistols would be dope. I'd like to see that, and it could complement DH rather well. Yeah, DH was heavily inspired by witch hunters already. DH also needs some love. All ranged guardians really. 😄

I can see a divinely-inspired martial leader using a sidearm too. There is room for both DPS and support if they decide to mix the skills between the MH and OH. It wouldn't be the first time for guardian. Only issue I see there is we have that in spades already. We have no purely-offensive power OH (except maybe OH sword which needs works and is a melee only weapon) and only one for condition builds (torch).

For willbender, maybe a midrange option for power WB that skirmishes hit-and-run style. Dashing in with swords and jumping back out to fire off shots with the pistol after proccing Justice flames.

I just prefer pistols as a power weapon, solely because I see the scepter as a more thematic condi/hybrid weapon. Personal preference. And torch already serves as the ranged condition option, quite well thematically at least.

[draxynnic.3719]

I think focus does reasonably well as a power offhand, just need to time the shield so that it will explode instead of breaking. People take it instead of OH sword for a reason. The thing is that power has several offhands that work (even shield kinda does if you want more defence) as well as the 2H options being pretty much all power. When it comes to condition damage, though, you're pretty much limited to MH1/torch and MH2/torch. And torch isn't really a ranged offhand - skill 5 is short range and skill 4 is only ranged on a flipover.

So I think the need is greater for a condi offhand. Now, being guardian, that could manifest as being a power weapon on paper but with a rapid strike rate so it can trigger the Justice passive a lot. But I do see power builds having a lot of options - greatsword, hammer, longbow, various combinations of sword or scepter with multiple feasible offhands - while condi guardians are usually carrying torches in both sets because there's no 2H condi option and no other offhand is worth switching out of torch. I'd like to see that change.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think focus does reasonably well as a power offhand, just need to time the shield so that it will explode instead of breaking. People take it instead of OH sword for a reason. The thing is that power has several offhands that work (even shield kinda does if you want more defence) as well as the 2H options being pretty much all power. When it comes to condition damage, though, you're pretty much limited to MH1/torch and MH2/torch. And torch isn't really a ranged offhand - skill 5 is short range and skill 4 is only ranged on a flipover.

So I think the need is greater for a condi offhand. Now, being guardian, that could manifest as being a power weapon on paper but with a rapid strike rate so it can trigger the Justice passive a lot. But I do see power builds having a lot of options - greatsword, hammer, longbow, various combinations of sword or scepter with multiple feasible offhands - while condi guardians are usually carrying torches in both sets because there's no 2H condi option and no other offhand is worth switching out of torch. I'd like to see that change.

I said it better in my first post. Guardian lacks a good ranged, power OH. Focus does well as a power offhand, but loses quite a bit of offense at range. The 2H weapons are decent, mostly. Most of the problem is pairing the MH weapons. That said, I would support a range buff to torch #5 (and ticking burns), and fix to the wonky way Radiant Fire works.

I also would like to see more options for conditions builds, both ranged and close, but mostly ranged. Virtue of Justice is a great mechanic for adding some burning to any fast weapon, but it would be nice to have other sources. Especially since the heavy nerf to the Tome of Justice passive and the limited range of willbender flames. I put Focus #4 into my burst rotation for WVW for that reason, but #5 can be rather clunky to use against ranged opponents.

Mostly I agree with your comments. Ranged guardian builds in general can be difficult, especially with FB and WB, even with the somewhat mid-range extent/wee-bit-longer-than-melee-range of their virtue skills.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[draxynnic.3719]

It's focus. If you're going to claim torch is a suitable ranged OH for condi builds because you can throw the fire from skill 4, then focus is at least as good for a ranged power build. You might not get to deal damage with Shield of Wrath at long range, but it's still a good defensive skill in a ranged fight. Most ranged weaponsets are not pure ranged damage on every skill.

Another consideration you're missing with the push to make scepter the condition option instead is that there are some weapon combinations that are generally intended to work together. When a weapon is available as both a MH and an OH, they usually have broadly the same role in each slot so that using two of them makes sense. In the case of scepter, you don't have an offhand, but focus is the natural offhand counterpart to scepter. While there is an exception to this rule (you don't often see scepter/focus necro - although it can be made to work), it would be odd to see scepter and focus being pushed in different directions.

Ultimately, though, I think the real kicker is that condi builds usually have the same skill 4 and 5 in each weaponset, while power builds have a lot of options there already. That sort of doubling up is the main thing I'd like to see addressed with a new OH. And if that is the approach being taken, then it stands to reason that they'll be looking to make both pistols condition-oriented, or at least suitably hybrid to keep them useful for condi builds, while power builds have scepter/focus and longbow as ranged options.

Could be interesting if they also find a way to make condition dragonhunter a practical option.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

11 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It's focus. If you're going to claim torch is a suitable ranged OH for condi builds because you can throw the fire from skill 4, then focus is at least as good for a ranged power build. You might not get to deal damage with Shield of Wrath at long range, but it's still a good defensive skill in a ranged fight. Most ranged weaponsets are not pure ranged damage on every skill.

Another consideration you're missing with the push to make scepter the condition option instead is that there are some weapon combinations that are generally intended to work together. When a weapon is available as both a MH and an OH, they usually have broadly the same role in each slot so that using two of them makes sense. In the case of scepter, you don't have an offhand, but focus is the natural offhand counterpart to scepter. While there is an exception to this rule (you don't often see scepter/focus necro - although it can be made to work), it would be odd to see scepter and focus being pushed in different directions.

Ultimately, though, I think the real kicker is that condi builds usually have the same skill 4 and 5 in each weaponset, while power builds have a lot of options there already. That sort of doubling up is the main thing I'd like to see addressed with a new OH. And if that is the approach being taken, then it stands to reason that they'll be looking to make both pistols condition-oriented, or at least suitably hybrid to keep them useful for condi builds, while power builds have scepter/focus and longbow as ranged options.

Could be interesting if they also find a way to make condition dragonhunter a practical option.

I find focus underwhelming as a ranged, offensive weapon in most cases. Maybe it's due to the lack of ranged AOE. It's good as a single target, utility weapon for duels or bosses. 🤷‍♀️ Torch I mostly use as a short/mid-range weapon around 400-600, since that's the extent of where Tome of Justice can work reasonably well. Also a decent range for willbender hit-and-run retreats. That said, I'm not going to say no to another good ranged weapon for condition builds (that's what I prefer to play the most), it just that the range is already severely limited by the profession mechanics for specs that can utilize it well. The preferred shift for scepter into a hybrid weapon is a style choice, as said. Nothing more.

I'd be down for pistols working as hybrid weapons and would certainly be down for condition options on DH, but I think DH needs better support and utility options first. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Rainbow Dragon.7268]

19 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I find focus underwhelming as a ranged, offensive weapon in most cases. Maybe it's due to the lack of ranged AOE. It's good as a single target, utility weapon for duels or bosses. 🤷‍♀️ Torch I mostly use as a short/mid-range weapon around 400-600, since that's the extent of where Tome of Justice can work reasonably well. Also a decent range for willbender hit-and-run retreats. That said, I'm not going to say no to another good ranged weapon for condition builds (that's what I prefer to play the most), it just that the range is already severely limited by the profession mechanics for specs that can utilize it well. The preferred shift for scepter into a hybrid weapon is a style choice, as said. Nothing more.

I'd be down for pistols working as hybrid weapons and would certainly be down for condition options on DH, but I think DH needs better support and utility options first. 

you say you want better support options yet focus 5 is amazing. power player's always wanting more smh the only true condi main hand we have is axe. so i hope pistol mh is a mix of power and condi. i'm perfectly fine with using torch as my off hand still. and trying to push scepter to condi i hope this never happens it's fine as it is. "if it's not broke don't fix it" as they say.

the only part of scepter i would change is that god awful noise on aa.

[Dante.1508]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:24 AM, crazyhusky.2985 said:

Finally a good ranged option on guardian.

Been waiting for pistol on guardian for ages.

I might actually play guardian again after the expac. Go for that inquisitor build design.

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Rainbow Dragon.7268 said:

you say you want better support options yet focus 5 is amazing. power player's always wanting more smh the only true condi main hand we have is axe. so i hope pistol mh is a mix of power and condi. i'm perfectly fine with using torch as my off hand still. and trying to push scepter to condi i hope this never happens it's fine as it is. "if it's not broke don't fix it" as they say.

the only part of scepter i would change is that god awful noise on aa.

Even axe is really a hybrid when you look closely at it, it's just that power firebrand hasn't been a thing for years so you don't see it being used that way, while there's nothing on guardian that really goes all-in on conditions.

Mind you, I don't really expect that to change in the foreseeable future either.

[crazyhusky.2985]

10 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

I might actually play guardian again after the expac. Go for that inquisitor build design.

Sounds like a plan, but gives me an idea, get few friends on guardians and all dress in red, Run around with pistols using Judge's Intervention teleporting to people.

HA! no one expects the spanish inquisition.

[draxynnic.3719]

44 minutes ago, crazyhusky.2985 said:

Sounds like a plan, but gives me an idea, get few friends on guardians and all dress in red, Run around with pistols using Judge's Intervention teleporting to people.

HA! no one expects the spanish inquisition.

I saw where that was going as soon as I read 'dress in red', so this time at least, somebody DID expect the Spanish Inquisition.

[Rainbow Dragon.7268]

15 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Even axe is really a hybrid when you look closely at it, it's just that power firebrand hasn't been a thing for years so you don't see it being used that way, while there's nothing on guardian that really goes all-in on conditions.

Mind you, I don't really expect that to change in the foreseeable future either.

when i say "true condi wep" i mean it's the only main hand with damage condi's on the skill's without needing to rely on f1.didn't say it wasn't hybrid 😛 i just didn't mention it because power damage to me is useless (mostly) as a condi player.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Rainbow Dragon.7268

[EdwinLi.1284]

Let us put things this way. 

 

It is time for the Guardians to embrace the power of a Space Marine for their Faith is their Shield and they will purge the Heretics!

[Dante.1508]

On 7/26/2023 at 5:01 PM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Let us put things this way. 

 

It is time for the Guardians to embrace the power of a Space Marine for their Faith is their Shield and they will purge the Heretics!

The new creatures definitely look like Heretic Xenos.. Nurgle is that you?