Revenant getting Main Hand Scepter in expansion 4!

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think ArenaNet has set a precedent of establishing that the revenant PC avoids using their own personal enemies as power sources, even when it's established that such power sources exist such as with Scarlet and Joko. I suspect this is a 'maintaining their own mental health' thing - it's one thing to have to listen to Mallyx muttering impersonal threats occasionally, it would likely be quite different to have a hostile legend where it's personal.

I don't think they've established that at all. They did make it clear they have no plans for new elite specs going forward, though I think they have room for at least one more, like giving revenants a more ambusher based or even mantra based build but we will see by the time they get to expansion 5.

[draxynnic.3719]

40 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I don't think they've established that at all. They did make it clear they have no plans for new elite specs going forward, though I think they have room for at least one more, like giving revenants a more ambusher based or even mantra based build but we will see by the time they get to expansion 5.

The precedent was Joko - in S4E1 the revenant PC channels Joko to break out of prison, but declares "never again" on doing so. Which indicates that there is a Joko legend available, but the revenant Champion of Aurene has made a conscious choice not to use it.

There isn't such a direct observation regarding Scarlet, but it's likely that the same thinking, both the Watsonian reason given in my previous posts and the potential Doylist reasons of "we don't want players using antagonist legends to set up a mirror match" or "we don't want a new player's first experience of an antagonist being another player using that legend", would apply to Scarlet as well.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The precedent was Joko - in S4E1 the revenant PC channels Joko to break out of prison, but declares "never again" on doing so. Which indicates that there is a Joko legend available, but the revenant Champion of Aurene has made a conscious choice not to use it.

There isn't such a direct observation regarding Scarlet, but it's likely that the same thinking, both the Watsonian reason given in my previous posts and the potential Doylist reasons of "we don't want players using antagonist legends to set up a mirror match" or "we don't want a new player's first experience of an antagonist being another player using that legend", would apply to Scarlet as well.

This is a big reach, especially the fact that Joko can't be a legend anymore since he's been devoured, essence and all, by Aurene. I don't recall channeling Joko either, since you can use multiple methods to break out of the prison anyways.

This isn't a precedent either and still leaves plenty on the table. It's probably why Balthazar will never appear either since his essence was devoured by Kralkatorik. The only precedent so far is that over time we can have some control, but does not mean we don't get access to them as the constant nagging in our heads that the legends present demonstrate. They are always there. Mallyx and Shiro are proof of that. The blind fold is just there to help a revenant focus and listen to a particular legend.

 

[Dyllethia.5786]

14 hours ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

Would be great to have a ranged Condi option.  Something that inflicts torment/bleed or burn.

We have this... It's called "Shortbow".

I'm excited for Scepter. Hope it's a mid-ranged power/heal weapon.  Having the auto change based on legend wouldn't be so bad either. (Heal/support for Ventari/Glint/Viktor, power for Shiro/Jalis/Archemorus, Condition for Mallyx/Kalla)  In any case I just hope Revenant never gets a fire arm thrown on them; I would like one of the magic professions to remain a pure mage class (very salty about Mesmer Rifle....)

11 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think ArenaNet has set a precedent of establishing that the revenant PC avoids using their own personal enemies as power sources, even when it's established that such power sources exist such as with Scarlet and Joko. I suspect this is a 'maintaining their own mental health' thing - it's one thing to have to listen to Mallyx muttering impersonal threats occasionally, it would likely be quite different to have a hostile legend where it's personal.

Think they were just pointing to the fact that anet seemed to be hinting at pistol as a weapon choice for Rev, nothing about the actual legend.  As we don't know if we're getting another trait line (and in this case legend) to come along with the weapons or not it will most likely just be the weapon.  Scepter works well as it would be the base line "Revenant" weapon where all others are tied to legends; a weapon to channel pure Mist energy and could be tied to the Invocation line.

[Dyllethia.5786]

delete

Edited July 2, 2023 by Vyriis.6258
accidental repost

[Dyllethia.5786]

Delete

Edited July 2, 2023 by Vyriis.6258
accidental repost

[DeathPanel.8362]

59 minutes ago, Vyriis.6258 said:

We have this... It's called "Shortbow".

People use that in full zerk builds.  It's not really good for pure condi.

[Dyllethia.5786]

9 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

People use that in full zerk builds.  It's not really good for pure condi.

I'm assuming you're talking about PvP and WvW as Shortbow is used for the Viper build in PvE.

[Duglaive.5236]

My least favorite weapon on every class that can use it ... even when it's the best choice 

Maybe Rev scepter will surprise, or rather, shock me. Not holding my breath, however.

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

This is a big reach, especially the fact that Joko can't be a legend anymore since he's been devoured, essence and all, by Aurene. I don't recall channeling Joko either, since you can use multiple methods to break out of the prison anyways.

This isn't a precedent either and still leaves plenty on the table. It's probably why Balthazar will never appear either since his essence was devoured by Kralkatorik. The only precedent so far is that over time we can have some control, but does not mean we don't get access to them as the constant nagging in our heads that the legends present demonstrate. They are always there. Mallyx and Shiro are proof of that. The blind fold is just there to help a revenant focus and listen to a particular legend.

 

The method used to break out depends on your profession. Revenant PCs always go 'never again' and then channel Joko's power to break out.

Also, whether a character's spirit is still present in the Mists or not is irrelevant for a revenant, because revenants don't actually channel the spirit of the individual they're emulating. Instead, they channel the Mists echo of the individual. You could think of it as though, somewhere in the Mists, each legend has one or more fractals that recreates their deeds (possibly inaccurately), and that's what the revenant is drawing from.

But those echoes still have a mirror of their original knowledge and personality. If I was the PC, I wouldn't want even an echo of Joko or Scarlet in my head. Because unlike Mallyx's easily brushed off threats, both of those are able to play mindgames with the PC's actual psychological weak spots.

[Jobber.6348]

Scepter is cool but what we really needed are more offhand options. 

We only have 3 offhand options and one of them is bad. With one Power focused offhand and one somewhat-hybrid offhand, figured we could have gotten Focus, OH dagger, OH mace or Torch to compliment the neglected child that is Condi builds and Mace. 

Would be nice to have an OH condi which can do something pretty nice to round out mace with a Pull for one, not unlike Firebrand's Axe or Reaper GS and a neat little Blast Finisher with some burst Condi. 

 

[Uete.3805]

I think scepter could be a ranged heal/support option, given that we have:

• Strike weapons: Greatsword/Swords/Hammer?
• Condi weapons: Shortbow/Mace/Axe
• Support weapons: Staff/Shield

Essentially we are missing a MH option to have a full support weapon kit. I've got to agree that having a more pure condi OH weapon (like the datamined dagger from HoT) would be swell though.

On 7/2/2023 at 10:27 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

The precedent was Joko - in S4E1 the revenant PC channels Joko to break out of prison, but declares "never again" on doing so. Which indicates that there is a Joko legend available, but the revenant Champion of Aurene has made a conscious choice not to use it.

There isn't such a direct observation regarding Scarlet, but it's likely that the same thinking, both the Watsonian reason given in my previous posts and the potential Doylist reasons of "we don't want players using antagonist legends to set up a mirror match" or "we don't want a new player's first experience of an antagonist being another player using that legend", would apply to Scarlet as well.

Also, I thought it was pretty clear that Joko always comes back, i.e. he lives within Aurene and will use her goddess-like power in GW3 to conquer Tyria, no?

[cmdrpengu.3012]

On 6/27/2023 at 6:22 PM, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Hopefully Scepter skills change based on the Legend the player is using

I think this is highly likely.

Every class is getting at least 5 new weapon skills. Two hand weapons obviously. Two one hand weapons obviously. That leaves Ele, Thief, and Rev. Ele will get 3 skills for each attunement. Thief gets the 1 and 2 skill, plus dual wield skills with dagger and pistol, plus a stealth attack, making 5. So that leaves Rev with getting less than 5 new weapon skills. Unless scepter comes with variation with Legends.

[Knighthonor.4061]

5 hours ago, cmdrpengu.3012 said:

I think this is highly likely.

Every class is getting at least 5 new weapon skills. Two hand weapons obviously. Two one hand weapons obviously. That leaves Ele, Thief, and Rev. Ele will get 3 skills for each attunement. Thief gets the 1 and 2 skill, plus dual wield skills with dagger and pistol, plus a stealth attack, making 5. So that leaves Rev with getting less than 5 new weapon skills. Unless scepter comes with variation with Legends.

Yup Logically it would make the best sense for a new core weapon that isnt bound to a specific Core Legend or Elite Spec Legend to have some universal conformity across multiple legends this time around.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Knighthonor.4061

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

11 hours ago, cmdrpengu.3012 said:

I think this is highly likely.

Every class is getting at least 5 new weapon skills. Two hand weapons obviously. Two one hand weapons obviously. That leaves Ele, Thief, and Rev. Ele will get 3 skills for each attunement. Thief gets the 1 and 2 skill, plus dual wield skills with dagger and pistol, plus a stealth attack, making 5. So that leaves Rev with getting less than 5 new weapon skills. Unless scepter comes with variation with Legends.

I almost guarantee Rev is just getting screwed and only getting 3 skills

[draxynnic.3719]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:45 AM, Yasai.3549 said:

We only have 3 offhand options and one of them is bad. 

Shield is good, it's just not good if what you want to do is maximise DPS.

On 7/3/2023 at 7:45 PM, Uete.3805 said:

Also, I thought it was pretty clear that Joko always comes back, i.e. he lives within Aurene and will use her goddess-like power in GW3 to conquer Tyria, no?

I get the feeling that it's a bit of a "Vampires have risen from the dead, the grave and the crypt, but never managed it from the cat" situation*, except replace 'vampire' with 'lich' and 'cat' with 'dragon' (which is probably even harder). Aurene didn't just eat Joko's physical form, she ate his magic, too, which meant that she also ate his immortality. Every supposedly immortal undead keeps coming back until someone figures out a way to stop them from coming back.

*Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad.   

[Aeolus.3615]

Grawl legend >D HAHAHA would be hilarious and very trolly from Anet side.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Shield is good, it's just not good if what you want to do is maximise DPS.

Between a projectile based delayed heal on location and a self rooting Block, it's a really poorly functioning defensive set in Gw2's action combat setting.
I still won't say Shield is "good" but more "serviceable" 

[draxynnic.3719]

49 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Between a projectile based delayed heal on location and a self rooting Block, it's a really poorly functioning defensive set in Gw2's action combat setting.
I still won't say Shield is "good" but more "serviceable" 

Those downsides only matter when they matter. Which I know is a truism, but often enough the downsides are either irrelevant or can be mitigated against. It's a good defensive/support tool in the right circumstances. (Fighting a reaper with Nothing Can Save You is not the right circumstance.)

[Buran.3796]

On 7/3/2023 at 3:45 AM, Yasai.3549 said:

Scepter is cool but what we really needed are more offhand options. 

We only have 3 offhand options and one of them is bad. 

  Off hand weapons as the the "main new weapon" in Berserker (torch) and Bladesworn (pistol; yes you can argue that the bang is in the gunsaber, but gunsaber has the problem of disabling your traditional burst which places Warriors in a niche) is the main reason the new weapon mastery feature is mostly useless in Warriors.

   I have no clue if the scepter will be good (or have any use), but for sure being a main hand weapon will allow more chances of having some potential use than being a off hand weapon.

[Jobber.6348]

4 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Off hand weapons as the the "main new weapon" in Berserker (torch) and Bladesworn (pistol; yes you can argue that the bang is in the gunsaber, but gunsaber has the problem of disabling your traditional burst which places Warriors in a niche) is the main reason the new weapon mastery feature is mostly useless in Warriors.

   I have no clue if the scepter will be good (or have any use), but for sure being a main hand weapon will allow more chances of having some potential use than being a off hand weapon.

Well, you could be Hammer. A whole two hand and actually useless. 

[TwistedAlga.4235]

I'm so glad Rev is getting Scepter! I am hoping it will be somehow similar to Ritualist casts/spells back in GW1 with this weapon. Although it's only 3 skills as for the mainhand... but still?