Optimistic for the future, not so much at launch: what do you all think?

[AzureNightmare.3914]

I'll admit I took a few years off GW2 and mostly am a dedicated PvE player so take some of my opinions with salt, but I've been into Guild Wars since I was 14 (now in my late 20s) and played GW2's beta, so I have a lot of love for this game, so I'm incredibly curious to see this game's direction post-Dragon Saga. Looking at the plans for Secrets of the Obscure I increasingly find myself in a space where I like the ideas going forth, but I'm worried SotO will debut with a lackluster launch riddled with problems. And I'm curious- is anybody else in this boat?

On one hand, I do like this style a bit more than just waiting for Living World. More story content being delivered to us without needing months for part of a chapter I can get behind. While the idea of not having the full expansion is weird, I can mind not waiting months for like, an hour of story if I hurry through it. Of course, this one is extremely hard to judge now because we don't know how much story we're getting right away. However, while I prefer regular story updates over a year of nothing happening in the game and relatively little new content other than skins and festivals, not having the full expansion at launch feels weird. Only time can tell how this is gonna be.

I like what's going on with weapons. And yeah: obviously, some Elite Spec weapons lose some shine when they're not on that spec. Sword Engineer is pretty lackluster without being able to generate Heat, but Hammer Holosmith was fun to play with. Mace could be an alternative for Sword if you're willing to sacrifice Heat tiers and Quickness in favor of some CC while still being able to inflict conditions. Sword/Warhorn Weaver and Tempest was fun, but this is personal taste. Personally, I think this can be good for future Elite Specs. I've always considered things like the Photon Forge transformation, shrouds, etc. I think it'd be nice if future Elite Specs no longer need to worry about the constraints of heavily prioritizing a weapon that some builds might not even use in favor of tuning and tweaking the mechanics itself.

However, and this is a big thing relating to this style of release, it feels like the new Core Weapons should be launching with the expansion.

A little more freedom is great, but more than anything, I'd appreciate being able to go into SotO with a Rifle Mesmer or double Pistol Guardian. However, we apparently will be waiting months for this. Sure we'll have more freedom playstyles going into it. This really feels like something that should be here at launch: not waiting a few months after launch, and I heavily question that decision. There's also the new Legendary Armor: I'm looking forward to it. I've wanted Legendary Armor for a while, but never really liked doing raids. I'm considering finally just doing raids with a guild I'm in to hopefully be able to get one set of the Perfect Envoy Armor just because it gives you your first precursor set for free, and do the rest for PvE. But why are we waiting for the Obsidian Armor? If anything, this would give players something to do while waiting. I assume you'll need to clear the part of the story that releases at launch to start doing it: it would be great to have that grind there so we have something to do, but it's something we're being told we have to wait for.

I feel kind of optimistic. I'm a bit unsure about Relics just because I'm worried that means every expansion we'll have a new armor piece to grind for that you can't be competitive without, but I want to reserve my judgment until we see it. But it just feels like a lot of stuff that should be here at launch won't be, and that bothers me. Given this is the first expansion with this kind of release cycle I expect ANet will help fine-tune it in the future, but I'm not very optimistic for the launch of SotO. I'm sure by its end it'll be great, but delaying the release of new weaponry and new legendary armor for several months after release leaves me unfortunately extremely cautious for the launch. Does anyone else feel the same?

[Fueki.4753]

After Champions EoD and Gyala Delve all having been subpar, I see no reason to be optimistic.

A neutral "wait and see" approach is much more reasonable than having hopes.

22 hours ago, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

More story content being delivered to us without needing months for part of a chapter I can get behind. While the idea of not having the full expansion is weird, I can mind not waiting months for like, an hour of story if I hurry through it.

But it'll be less content at once than with a full expansion, while we still have to wait months for the next tidbits of story like we did with Living World seasons.

The only things that change with this system are:

1) no more elite specializations (at least for SotO),

2) less content for our money,

3) The new post-launch episodes will unlocked with their expansion, rather than having to log in while it's the current episode or buying them on the Gem Store.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[idpersona.3810]

22 hours ago, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

I like what's going on with weapons. And yeah: obviously, some Elite Spec weapons lose some shine when they're not on that spec. Sword Engineer is pretty lackluster without being able to generate Heat, but Hammer Holosmith was fun to play with. Mace could be an alternative for Sword if you're willing to sacrifice Heat tiers and Quickness in favor of some CC while still being able to inflict conditions. Sword/Warhorn Weaver and Tempest was fun, but this is personal taste. Personally, I think this can be good for future Elite Specs. I've always considered things like the Photon Forge transformation, shrouds, etc. I think it'd be nice if future Elite Specs no longer need to worry about the constraints of heavily prioritizing a weapon that some builds might not even use in favor of tuning and tweaking the mechanics itself.

I like the idea of opening up the weapons list, but some just don't work wihtout their elite spec. So more of less I will wait to judge this until we know more about how it will be implemented.

22 hours ago, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

However, and this is a big thing relating to this style of release, it feels like the new Core Weapons should be launching with the expansion.

100%.

22 hours ago, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

A little more freedom is great, but more than anything, I'd appreciate being able to go into SotO with a Rifle Mesmer or double Pistol Guardian. However, we apparently will be waiting months for this. Sure we'll have more freedom playstyles going into it. This really feels like something that should be here at launch: not waiting a few months after launch, and I heavily question that decision. There's also the new Legendary Armor: I'm looking forward to it. I've wanted Legendary Armor for a while, but never really liked doing raids. I'm considering finally just doing raids with a guild I'm in to hopefully be able to get one set of the Perfect Envoy Armor just because it gives you your first precursor set for free, and do the rest for PvE. But why are we waiting for the Obsidian Armor? If anything, this would give players something to do while waiting. I assume you'll need to clear the part of the story that releases at launch to start doing it: it would be great to have that grind there so we have something to do, but it's something we're being told we have to wait for.

Yea, the spacing between the initial release and the first content drop seems weird to me. I just hope there is enough to do to hold player's interest.

22 hours ago, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

I feel kind of optimistic. I'm a bit unsure about Relics just because I'm worried that means every expansion we'll have a new armor piece to grind for that you can't be competitive without, but I want to reserve my judgment until we see it. But it just feels like a lot of stuff that should be here at launch won't be, and that bothers me. Given this is the first expansion with this kind of release cycle I expect ANet will help fine-tune it in the future, but I'm not very optimistic for the launch of SotO. I'm sure by its end it'll be great, but delaying the release of new weaponry and new legendary armor for several months after release leaves me unfortunately extremely cautious for the launch. Does anyone else feel the same?

I want to feel optimistic. I do mostly I think. I like a lot of the concepts of what's to come. It's going to be a matter of implementation on a lot of it. I think that's going to make or break the experience. Relics are a big one. There's already plenty in the other threads about that. The armor not actually being attainable at launch is an odd choice imo. It just seems like the big draws from previous expansions are in the works, but none are really ready so we have to wait additional months for it. And after some previous content drops, it's just hard to stay completely positive for upcoming content.

8 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

After Champions EoD and Gyala Delve all having been subpar, I see no reason to be optimistic.

A neutral "wait and see" approach is much more reasonable than having hopes.

That's dour, but I can absolutely see where you;re coming from.

[Fueki.4753]

25 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

That's dour

No, it's not. It's a realistic and neutral view of things.

[idpersona.3810]

12 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

No, it's not. It's a realistic and neutral view of things.

It can be both 😔

[Fueki.4753]

27 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

It can be both

Dour literally means "relentlessly severe, stern, or gloomy in manner or appearance", which gives dour negative meaning.

And if something is neutral, like my view, it can't be negative at the same time.

[idpersona.3810]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Dour literally means "relentlessly severe, stern, or gloomy in manner or appearance", which gives dour negative meaning.

And if something is neutral, like my view, it can't be negative at the same time.

ha. fair enough. I meant dour and realistic as both. But I suppose there were 3 adjectives.

[Endaris.1452]

Unless the replayable PvE content in the wizard tower really kills it and the story returns to a quality of standard, this expansion is pretty much devoid of actual content and just piggybacking on previous expansions' efforts.

Putting new weapons and legendary armor into the updates rather than launch will cause this expansion to be 3-4h of new story + PvE gameplay and then we're done. I don't see how this is going to be any different compared to usual living story. The story we'll get on launch will at best have the volume of 2 living story chapters and in the updates we'll get 2 chapters more because this is a mini expansion with backloaded promises.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Endaris.1452
grammar

[Dante.1508]

I am not optamistic..

• One map Apparently 3 maps..
• I assume story of EoD caliber.
• Runes that seem gimmicky and yet another grind?
• Legendary Armor in open world, nice but it will be real life years of grind i assume.
• All "class" weapons allowed but.. they were never designed for them "under the hood" seems gimmicky at best and game breaking at worst..
• No new Races, Classes or Specs
• No new mounts.. (possibly a good thing)
• Old recycled enemies with new shadow skins?

No new anything from reading the update.. seems like a very low budget expac.. I only pre ordered it because if i don't i'll only have half a game at release..

Edited July 16, 2023 by Dante.1508

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

7 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

One map

There are three maps. Two at launch one added over time later.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 7/13/2023 at 5:15 PM, idpersona.3810 said:

That's dour, but I can absolutely see where you;re coming from.

Actually a neutral "wait and see" approach, based on a lot of what we've heard (including the fact that the whole release cycle changes added to scope of SotO seem to suggest severe lack of resources Anet is willing to dedicate to GW2) seems quite optimistic to me.

On its own, taken without wider contexts, SotO seems quite fine. Taken with that context however it looks like a low cost attempt to change from content-based release cycle into one that will mostly revolve on forced grind, and nothing more.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I actually really liked EoD's story(excluding the gala delves stuff) and most of the additions apart from research notes so I'm a bit more optimistic about the expansion, curious about how they'll implement a fair few things. 

[Tails.9372]

19 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

I am not optamistic..

...

• Legendary Armor in open world, nice

That you think that this is going to be an OW armor set seems rather optimistic to me.

[Dante.1508]

4 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

That you think that this is going to be an OW armor set seems rather optimistic to me.

Possibly, but i'm only going by what the devs wrote and players decoded it as.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure will also introduce a new set of legendary armor: Obsidian armor. This will be the first set that doesn’t require heavy investment into raids or competitive experiences—instead, the various crafting components come from open-world gameplay in Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/12/2023 at 6:51 PM, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

I'll admit I took a few years off GW2 and mostly am a dedicated PvE player so take some of my opinions with salt, but I've been into Guild Wars since I was 14 (now in my late 20s) and played GW2's beta, so I have a lot of love for this game, so I'm incredibly curious to see this game's direction post-Dragon Saga. Looking at the plans for Secrets of the Obscure I increasingly find myself in a space where I like the ideas going forth, but I'm worried SotO will debut with a lackluster launch riddled with problems. And I'm curious- is anybody else in this boat?

Pretty much any game or game expansion will release with bugs/problems. So that's my expectation. It's not whether or not SoTO will release with problems but rather how many. You can be worried about that, but imo it's just part of the reality. Whether it will be lacklustre remains to be seen. I'm a bit more positive on that.

On 7/12/2023 at 6:51 PM, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

On one hand, I do like this style a bit more than just waiting for Living World. More story content being delivered to us without needing months for part of a chapter I can get behind. While the idea of not having the full expansion is weird, I can mind not waiting months for like, an hour of story if I hurry through it. Of course, this one is extremely hard to judge now because we don't know how much story we're getting right away. However, while I prefer regular story updates over a year of nothing happening in the game and relatively little new content other than skins and festivals, not having the full expansion at launch feels weird. Only time can tell how this is gonna be.

I think you'll find that this is more of the direction they wanted to do with Sagas. The idea is that they have updates more regularly to keep people busy continuously. Whether they will succeed or not, well, time will tell. If they do, then I think it's the right approach. If it's like Gyala Delves then it's a fail.

On 7/12/2023 at 6:51 PM, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

I like what's going on with weapons. And yeah: obviously, some Elite Spec weapons lose some shine when they're not on that spec. Sword Engineer is pretty lackluster without being able to generate Heat, but Hammer Holosmith was fun to play with. Mace could be an alternative for Sword if you're willing to sacrifice Heat tiers and Quickness in favor of some CC while still being able to inflict conditions. Sword/Warhorn Weaver and Tempest was fun, but this is personal taste. Personally, I think this can be good for future Elite Specs. I've always considered things like the Photon Forge transformation, shrouds, etc. I think it'd be nice if future Elite Specs no longer need to worry about the constraints of heavily prioritizing a weapon that some builds might not even use in favor of tuning and tweaking the mechanics itself.

However, and this is a big thing relating to this style of release, it feels like the new Core Weapons should be launching with the expansion.

A little more freedom is great, but more than anything, I'd appreciate being able to go into SotO with a Rifle Mesmer or double Pistol Guardian. However, we apparently will be waiting months for this. Sure we'll have more freedom playstyles going into it. This really feels like something that should be here at launch: not waiting a few months after launch, and I heavily question that decision.

I think it's about balancing things and keeping things fressh for the releases that come after. To balance the weapon options that will be released with SoTO is already bad enough I would think.

On 7/12/2023 at 6:51 PM, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

There's also the new Legendary Armor: I'm looking forward to it. I've wanted Legendary Armor for a while, but never really liked doing raids. I'm considering finally just doing raids with a guild I'm in to hopefully be able to get one set of the Perfect Envoy Armor just because it gives you your first precursor set for free, and do the rest for PvE. But why are we waiting for the Obsidian Armor? If anything, this would give players something to do while waiting. I assume you'll need to clear the part of the story that releases at launch to start doing it: it would be great to have that grind there so we have something to do, but it's something we're being told we have to wait for.

I think it's to not overwhelm people. It's OW legendary armour after all and I think many OW players haven't got any legendary stuff and may be taken aback by the sheer amount of mats and collections that will be needed probably. You can already start your path towards the new Legendary Armour sets as of the release of SoTO. There are other armour sets like the one for the Rifts that you need as a prerequisite for example. Also it's about spreading things out to keep things fresh over the year after. They want you to keep coming back.

On 7/12/2023 at 6:51 PM, AzureNightmare.3914 said:

I feel kind of optimistic. I'm a bit unsure about Relics just because I'm worried that means every expansion we'll have a new armor piece to grind for that you can't be competitive without, but I want to reserve my judgment until we see it. But it just feels like a lot of stuff that should be here at launch won't be, and that bothers me. Given this is the first expansion with this kind of release cycle I expect ANet will help fine-tune it in the future, but I'm not very optimistic for the launch of SotO. I'm sure by its end it'll be great, but delaying the release of new weaponry and new legendary armor for several months after release leaves me unfortunately extremely cautious for the launch. Does anyone else feel the same?

Well Relics are just one item that you can equip and the main purpose of it is to be able to separate the 6-piece bonus from the stats of the runes. And they'll finally be able to reduce the ridiculous amount of runes that exist today. I think there's like 100 of them. I'm not sure why you think Anet would add another armor piece every expansion. That would be very strange to me.

And as for the launch, if you're worried about it, just wait a few weeks to play it. And in the meantime I'll be working on the new mastery lines, playing the Rifts and the new story line and trying out new weapon combo's. I'm actually glad they didn't add all those weapons in one go tbh.

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure will also introduce a new set of legendary armor: Obsidian armor. This will be the first set that doesn’t require heavy investment into raids or competitive experiences—instead, the various crafting components come from open-world gameplay in Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure.

It could still need the new fractal and strikes and if Anet wants even the cm of those strikes.

[Tails.9372]

10 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

i'm only going by what the devs wrote and players decoded it as

The issue is that what players "decoded it as" often times ignores one crucial thing, the devs wrode: "doesn't require heavy investment into...". See the word "heavy"? There is no reason for them to include it unless there still is some "investment", just not as much as previous sets.

I feel like many players who believe this to be "OW legendary armor" are setting themselves up for disappointment here.

[Raknar.4735]

19 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

The issue is that what players "decoded it as" often times ignores one crucial thing, the devs wrode: "doesn't require heavy investment into...". See the word "heavy"? There is no reason for them to include it unless there still is some "investment", just not as much as previous sets.

I feel like many players who believe this to be "OW legendary armor" are setting themselves up for disappointment here.

Yeah, the issue really is what players "decode it as", e.g. players reading too much into words like "heavy", when it could just relate to the old sets.

We could just wait for the release of SOTO & more blog-posts with information on the armour after the release, but i guess spreading negativity due to lack of information is just too much fun.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Raknar.4735

[Gehenna.3625]

7 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

The issue is that what players "decoded it as" often times ignores one crucial thing, the devs wrode: "doesn't require heavy investment into...". See the word "heavy"? There is no reason for them to include it unless there still is some "investment", just not as much as previous sets.

I feel like many players who believe this to be "OW legendary armor" are setting themselves up for disappointment here.

Well there is another reason and that's because OW players currently do have to do a heavy investment into other modes that they don't really enjoy or flat out hate. So they could be just vibing with those people who are indeed complaining about not having OW leggy armour and why. It also wouldn't be the first time a game developer uses an unfortunate turn of phrase. Now I'm not saying you're wrong about the use of the word "heavy" but I do feel that Anet did present it as OW armour sets and if it ends up being not quite what they presented it as, a lot of people will be upset and they will only have themselves to thank for it.

It's not like that hasn't happened before but I do question the wisdom of any game company whenever they set themselves up for unnecessary negativity towards them. I'd think they already get enough of that. But who knows, maybe Anet devs are suckers for punishment?