Ranger holds 5 of the top 15 DPS benchmarks

[Mell.4873]

I'm sure this bound to change but right now as of this date it is true. It is also pretty evenly spread with Untamed comming last. 

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks

 

[merrua.7385]

The linked videos show lower damage.

[Sandzibar.5134]

wont it be funny when it gets nerfed before cata is.

[Peter.3901]

And what? you want every profession to be nerfed to the untamed level?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

We only have one in the top 5, which are the only ones that matter.  That one also happens to revolve around using CA form other than what it was intended for and could be hard to do mechanics with.  

Don't worry, your precious mesmer is only ~1K DPS from the Druid.  

[Beddo.1907]

3 hours ago, Peter.3901 said:

And what? you want every profession to be nerfed to the untamed level?

Untamed is pulling 40k, so power level is there.
The issue is how annoying it is to play, not it's power level.

[AlexndrTheGreat.8310]

Low key hoping that some of the power creep overall is able to be decreased. A small group (maybe 1-2) of builds in the past having 40k+ benchmarks felt okay, but now SnowCrows has 20 builds doing that.

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Peter.3901 said:

And what? you want every profession to be nerfed to the untamed level?

Untamed is at 40k dps to. 

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

We only have one in the top 5, which are the only ones that matter.  That one also happens to revolve around using CA form other than what it was intended for and could be hard to do mechanics with.  

Don't worry, your precious mesmer is only ~1K DPS from the Druid.  

True, I more did this post because I was super surprised at the high benchmarks and alot of people have been complaining Ranger is bad PvE. 

[Levetty.1279]

15 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

We only have one in the top 5, which are the only ones that matter.  That one also happens to revolve around using CA form other than what it was intended for and could be hard to do mechanics with.  

Don't worry, your precious mesmer is only ~1K DPS from the Druid.  

Mell only plays healer Virtuoso so I don't know why you feel the need to sperg out over other classes doing good DPS too.

[Andy.5981]

Much wow against a static golem... basicially those figures are total ballcocks in the real world - for all classes not just Rangers and their elites.....

Edited July 14, 2023 by Andy.5981

[Mell.4873]

13 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Mell only plays healer Virtuoso so I don't know why you feel the need to sperg out over other classes doing good DPS too.

You do realise I played Ranger more, it's got well over 70% of my playtime. 

12 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Much wow against a static golem... basicially those figures are total ballcocks in the real world - for all classes not just Rangers and their elites.....

Kind of irrelevant since the benchmarks prove the damage potential. The reality is Ranger does great DPS much like everyone other class, it's just right now all 3 Ranger Elites have many good DPS options. Unlike before where it was only Soulbeast. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mell.4873

[aymnad.9023]

I prepared a much longer message but then realized I was only complaining about the same things over and over. Soooooooo trying to keep it short : this is a pleasant surprise.

Before the previous patch I was really unhappy. We had stuff like spellbreaker being way above soulbeast and berserker which was pure nonsense. I had swapped to reaper / engie for power builds and ele / guard for condi build. I would heal / support people on fb while having good dps or keep hitting the boss while running away on ele / reaper.

Ranger can struggle for the following reasons:

• Power ranger is not practical since you need to fight a non moving boss and in close combat (your burst roots you or uses delayed aoe). As I always remind people, during pof, when pslb had 1.5k more dps than banner warrior, it ended being worst in most fights. 
• Condi ranger needs a close combat enemy, have a slow ramp up making professions with burn or torment way better in most fights.

Since they started making sure everyone does a mechanic and not just 2-3 people we have a weird situation. Ranger gets some strong results on old content but completely falls off in the last 2-3 years content. This makes balance a bit messy. You end up with benchmarks that need to be higher to reach what other can do, making it even better for older content. 

At the moment I am really enjoying the new builds and am surprised to see them perform well 😻 because I thought the last patch would not change a single thing. I am only waiting for some improved boon generation

 

As a side note I said for multiple patches the game can probably work without 40k benchmarks so I would not mind if it gets nerfed ALONG EVERY other profession (and we avoid the previous situation of especs with free tankyness/support/range being higher than pure dps or ranger having the same benchmarks).

Edited July 14, 2023 by aymnad.9023
edited too many times to have less complains

[Andy.5981]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Kind of irrelevant since the benchmarks prove the damage potential. The reality is Ranger does great DPS much like everyone other class, it's just right now all 3 Ranger Elites have many good DPS options. Unlike before where it was only Soulbeast. 

Not irrelevant. Claiming that the class is good because it does potentially high dps on a static glem is rediculous. 

You aren't getting stunned. You aren't getting knocked down. You aren't getting confused - Im sure you get the idea. The damage and the DPS is only "good" if you can land it and again in any game content that is vastly different to standing next to a golem and mashing buttons in a perfect rotation.

Factor in the damage mitigation a class can do and the healing output and the regeneration of its health when not getting hit, the ability to share boons to other players or clean conditions on a group, how long it's boons last, what boons it can access. That's when a class becomes "good" or "bad".

DPS is only part of the equation. Rangers still need work.

[Peter.3901]

18 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Untamed is at 40k dps to. 

I tried untamed today, not fightning a static golem, it was so good that i almost uninstalled the game...

Everything shines in simulacrum - Warframe

Edited July 14, 2023 by Peter.3901

[Nephalem.8921]

9 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Much wow against a static golem... basicially those figures are total ballcocks in the real world - for all classes not just Rangers and their elites.....

It has almost no ticking fields, no torment and quite a few ranged options. Why would it suffer harder on encounters than a weaver which is pure melee?

[Mell.4873]

@aymnad.9023 @Andy.5981

We must be playing different games since I remember Bosses having break bars which produces the circumstances that you claim doesn't exist.

There is plenty of time to get off your stationary skills like Whirling Defense. I mean this is essentially the point the Ranger, extremely Highly DPS burst rotation. This most true for Soulbeast than any other profession in the game with Sic Em.

I want to push this idea even further since unlike more Melee Classes most Ranger builds involve at least one Ranged option like Main-hand Axe or Longbow. This essentially plays out with you using those weapons to clear Mobs/Mechanics that other Classes can't. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Not irrelevant. Claiming that the class is good because it does potentially high dps on a static glem is rediculous. 

You aren't getting stunned. You aren't getting knocked down. You aren't getting confused - Im sure you get the idea. The damage and the DPS is only "good" if you can land it and again in any game content that is vastly different to standing next to a golem and mashing buttons in a perfect rotation.

Factor in the damage mitigation a class can do and the healing output and the regeneration of its health when not getting hit, the ability to share boons to other players or clean conditions on a group, how long it's boons last, what boons it can access. That's when a class becomes "good" or "bad".

DPS is only part of the equation. Rangers still need work.

??? Okay so every class loses 20k to getting stunned knocked down or confused; Ranger still is in the top 15.
Ranger also has a lot of passive Support, either Endurance bonuses or straight healing.

I will agree Ranger still needs work, but this goes for every Class. Most of its boon support options are very lack luster especially with Spirit changes, (the Trait should allow them to pulse the boon shake again, not just Slam).

[Levetty.1279]

10 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

You do realise I play Ranger more, it's got well over 70% of my playtime. 

I meant when you play Mesmer. The guy I was quoting was implying you were a Mesmer player come to complain about Ranger.

[Mell.4873]

18 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I meant when you play Mesmer. The guy I was quoting was implying you were a Mesmer player come to complain about Ranger.

Oh, I play both pretty equally now. It's just I started Playing Ranger a lot earlier.
https://imgur.com/Oo68Q03

Edited July 14, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Gotejjeken.1267]

14 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Mell only plays healer Virtuoso so I don't know why you feel the need to sperg out over other classes doing good DPS too.

Really? Because they agreed with my take:

On 7/13/2023 at 5:04 PM, Mell.4873 said:

True, I more did this post because I was super surprised at the high benchmarks and alot of people have been complaining Ranger is bad PvE. 

And also disagreed with your take of them only playing 'healer virtuoso':

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Oh, I play both pretty equally now. It's just I started Playing Ranger a lot earlier.
https://imgur.com/Oo68Q03

 

So, before you go throwing shade about someone 'sperging out' you may want to check your white knight card to ensure it is still valid and the person you are white knight'ing doesn't directly contradict you.

 

[Levetty.1279]

You don't know what white knight means, stop embarrassing yourself. 🙄

[aymnad.9023]

13 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

@aymnad.9023 @Andy.5981

We must be playing different games since I remember Bosses having break bars which produces the circumstances that you claim doesn't exist.

There is plenty of time to get off your stationary skills like Whirling Defense. I mean this is essentially the point the Ranger, extremely Highly DPS burst rotation. This most true for Soulbeast than any other profession in the game with Sic Em.

I want to push this idea even further since unlike more Melee Classes most Ranger builds involve at least one Ranged option like Main-hand Axe or Longbow. This essentially plays out with you using those weapons to clear Mobs/Mechanics that other Classes can't. 

Bosses have breakbars at precise moments / phases. Those moments are rare (only a few per bosses) and on some bosses it does not even matter because the boss either does not have a cc bar (cairn,mo,…) or does start its mechanics right after being cc (samarog, twin largos,…).

Anytime you know a mechanic (spread bombs, aoe cc or damage), a new phase starts (invuln for a few seconds) or the boss simply moves somewhere else in the next 5s you have to stop your rotation. This affects slow condi build (like ranger) or power build that are very wave like (like sicem).

I became interested in cast time and targeting a few months ago after getting a new mouse. It helped me throw attacks on my target in my back. I was already playing reaper wells and staff, engie grenades, ele scepter but the flexibility the “lock on” option gives is huge. The lack of flexibility in build (no real range utility damage) / movement (facing target / cast / self root) is also why range is actually not that impressive on ranger.(in my opinion)   (sidenote : I do enjoy gs way more than lb but swap often)

Sunqua peak, Ko cm, Olc cm, the recent silent surf are all “recent” releases and they check if you can move / do mechanics. Even a non moving boss like Mai trin cm checks something with the shockwave debuff. Olc cm was my breaking point but I was already getting tired before. There was just too much of a difference in performance, how much I could help my squad (fb), have an easier (scepter ele) and more fun time while being less restricted on my other professions (necro, engie).  

Edited July 15, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Mell.4873]

11 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Bosses have breakbars at precise moments / phases. Those moments are rare (only a few per bosses) and on some bosses it does not even matter because the boss either does not have a cc bar (cairn,mo,…) or does start its mechanics right after being cc (samarog, twin largos,…).

Anytime you know a mechanic (spread bombs, aoe cc or damage), a new phase starts (invuln for a few seconds) or the boss simply moves somewhere else in the next 5s you have to stop your rotation. This affects slow condi build (like ranger) or power build that are very wave like (like sicem).

I became interested in cast time and targeting a few months ago after getting a new mouse. It helped me throw attacks on my target in my back. I was already playing reaper wells and staff, engie grenades, ele scepter but the flexibility the “lock on” option gives is huge. The lack of flexibility in build (no real range utility damage) / movement (facing target / cast / self root) is also why range is actually not that impressive on ranger.  (sidenote : I do enjoy gs way more than lb but swap often)

Sunqua peak, Ko cm, Olc cm, the recent silent surf are all “recent” releases and they check if you can move / do mechanics. Even a non moving boss like Mai trin cm checks something with the shockwave debuff. Olc cm was my breaking point but I was already getting tired before. There was just too much of a difference in performance, how much I could help my squad (fb), have an easier (scepter ele) and more fun time on my other professions (necro, engie).  

So what do you suggest playing a full Ranged Elite like Virtuoso? 

Honestly I don't get your point, you can Melee bosses and you can move while attacking. Ranger only has one main source of stationary damage since barrage doesn't realy count. Ranger also has many leap options especially with sword rework. 

I think the main reason why people don't use Ranger is because you have no reactionary skills while preform the rotation since most of your utilities are for damage. One of the main reasons I like Mesmer is the condition Signets have a built in stun break and CC. With all that in mind like I mentioned they also have many amazing passive traits so that can be a pro to some people. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

11 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

So, before you go throwing shade about someone 'sperging out' you may want to check your white knight card to ensure it is still valid and the person you are white knight'ing doesn't directly contradict you.

 

Im 100% lost on this back and forth.