Elemenstalist changes

[MysteryDude.1572]

Thank you for nerfing spheres btw .

in the path to appease to pvp and whoever cried "cata broken boohoohoo", you're nerfing support wvw  catalyst in the process

yes it is too much while roaming on cele, yes it is still too much in pvp aparently 

WHY did u even put auras in signet trait in the first place , it was NOT needed

at least less stab in pvp , ye ?

🤡

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by MysteryDude.1572

[soulknight.9620]

Well atleast they have solved issues with catalyst energy system... oh wait...

[Dorsai.1458]

They need to remove aura gain on signets or remove (not reduce length) of the additional buffs you get from the auras when traiting for it (prot, stab).  The aura already come with buffs ...stop stuffing them with more passive bloat.

Very cute on the wordplay to make it look like they addressed the power of instant aura gain ...but look close.  They really didn't do squat.  They didn't even touch magnetic or shock aura.  Might generation is still easy ......and scepter auto-attack burn is still way overtuned.

This game has become so random and unreactive.  Passive mitigation/boon application is king (AKA: PVE defense). 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

I really like how people complain about giving back good old Aura on Signet trait that's a tiny bit buffed.
The real question is: when Elementalist will get real e-spec from EoD?

[Ram.5981]

Yay Ele nerfs!  I'm not surprised.  One of the most difficult classes to play well, and no reward for being able to master the finger gymnastics required to effectively play it.

I main ele, I have over 6.5k hours playing my ele (I know.. small compared to some), but my next highest class has 300 hours, that's how much I love ele! lol

Just for kicks, I have been playing a necro, specifically a harb cele build. I have been playing in WvW and PvE, and the ease I am able to do things compared to my main weaver is disguising. Killing elites/champs in PvE? No problem. Solo roaming, capping tiered up camps, etc? Piece of cake. While I can do this on my main weaver build, I am doing this on harb with only playing it for 15 hours, and I don't really know what I'm doing on necro.

[Dorsai.1458]

Get off the whole "Eles are hard to play".  The only thing hard about any class is understanding how the class mechanics works.  Once established, it's muscle memory.

You want hard to play?  Play any class trying to fight 1v1 against a still overtuned Cata and watch them make a ton of mistakes and still drop your kitten if you don't run.

Your comment about picking up necro and having it ez mode .... I have around 20 hours on a new Cata and I'm soloing camps in WvW, killing champs and elites in pve ...and I'm just pumping skills and signets and watching my health bar never go below 50%.  I don't even move most of the time.  Just face tank most of them.  So what does this mean with regards to your point about necro?

[soulknight.9620]

4 minutes ago, Dorsai.1458 said:

I'm soloing camps in WvW, killing champs and elites in pve

Just saying, thats not hard at all with any class. 

[Dorsai.1458]

I know ...I was just responding to his post his new necro soloing these things.  Obvious deflection attempt from ele.

[RaveOnYou.2819]

anet again screwed the balance, while they are trying to fix their own fault(signet kitten), they delete one spec from competitive game modes. there was a simple solution first remove signet/aura thing and bring some slight arrangements to scepter and hammer skills. they totally halved all cata traits god sake.

Edited July 18, 2023 by RaveOnYou.2819

[Polar.8634]

1 hour ago, bluberblasen.9684 said:

Ele nerfed in wvw because of pvp

Why would you think so? 

It is overturned in wvw too.

But I would prefer to nerf cele stat instead of ele. Would kill flock of birds with one stone

Edited July 18, 2023 by Polar.8634

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Ram.5981 said:

Yay Ele nerfs!  I'm not surprised.  One of the most difficult classes to play well, and no reward for being able to master the finger gymnastics required to effectively play it.

I main ele, I have over 6.5k hours playing my ele (I know.. small compared to some), but my next highest class has 300 hours, that's how much I love ele! lol

Just for kicks, I have been playing a necro, specifically a harb cele build. I have been playing in WvW and PvE, and the ease I am able to do things compared to my main weaver is disguising. Killing elites/champs in PvE? No problem. Solo roaming, capping tiered up camps, etc? Piece of cake. While I can do this on my main weaver build, I am doing this on harb with only playing it for 15 hours, and I don't really know what I'm doing on necro.

Ele is not exempt from nerfs when something is overperforming. Ele is so hard in PvP that it was on the level of core Necro people complained about before EoD. 
A person not even halfway through leveling could play Ele efficiently in PvP. Grab Signets, pick Cata. Pre EoD core Necro tier build.
Though, I have to say that I actually had more success on Cata than on core Necro.

Anet could have started by not buffing it into oblivion, but it is amusing seeing people complain when something clearly broken gets nerfed.

Edited July 18, 2023 by IAmNotMatthew.1058
Core Necro, not Condi...

[Loke.1429]

The way they nerfed signets instead of the trait will hurt many other specs that were already underperforming (which is annoying).

I guess it was a catch 22 for them, keep trait and nerf other things (e.g. signets), or roll back an interesting mechanical change (i.e. hard to make mechanical changes without this result).

I mean I want them to keep making changes, and that means builds will get affected, some for the better some for the worse. I just wish they would pay attention to staff, or make pistol 1200-1500 range. It's like they want ele to be support or melee bubble brawler, but I dont want either. Game has way too much damage avoidance mechanics, so it is not something I want to see more of. I simply want the ranged mage-esque damage dealer that I chose when I started this game ages ago during beta. You can make things "interesting" all you want, with weird squishy brawlers, but dont make that the majority of the options, thats way too skewed into a very specific taste that will not please the majority of the potential playerbase. We need an interesting take on mages, not a bait-and-switch ward/monk/"magic warrior".

Edited July 18, 2023 by Loke.1429

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

3 hours ago, Dorsai.1458 said:

Get off the whole "Eles are hard to play".  The only thing hard about any class is understanding how the class mechanics works.  Once established, it's muscle memory.

You want hard to play?  Play any class trying to fight 1v1 against a still overtuned Cata and watch them make a ton of mistakes and still drop your kitten if you don't run.

Your comment about picking up necro and having it ez mode .... I have around 20 hours on a new Cata and I'm soloing camps in WvW, killing champs and elites in pve ...and I'm just pumping skills and signets and watching my health bar never go below 50%.  I don't even move most of the time.  Just face tank most of them.  So what does this mean with regards to your point about necro?

I took down catas on tempest. What is your point?

You know what is hard to do? Kill Willbenders with their infinite mobility. Catch thieves with their hit&stealth. That is HARD. Cata? not that much. No.

[RaveOnYou.2819]

18 minutes ago, Loke.1429 said:

The way they nerfed signets instead of the trait will hurt many other specs that were already underperforming (which is annoying).

I guess it was a catch 22 for them, keep trait and nerf other things (e.g. signets), or roll back an interesting mechanical change (i.e. hard to make mechanical changes without this result).

I mean I want them to keep making changes, and that means builds will get affected, some for the better some for the worse. I just wish they would pay attention to staff, or make pistol 1200-1500 range. It's like they want ele to be support or melee bubble brawler, but I dont want either. Game has way too much damage avoidance mechanics, so it is not something I want to see more of. I simply want the ranged mage-esque damage dealer that I chose when I started this game ages ago during beta. You can make things "interesting" all you want, with weird squishy brawlers, but dont make that the majority of the options, thats way too skewed into a very specific taste that will not please the majority of the potential playerbase. We need an interesting take on mages, not a bait-and-switch ward/monk/"magic warrior".

anet usually doest swallow their words. if they change smth to brutal, they change again to balance to  a completely different thing which nobody ask at the begining. its like 10 years old child behaviour.

[Mauti.3520]

This abomination named Condi Signet Cata clearly needed a punch in it's face but...other builds kinda didn't. And Catalyst in it's other roles didn't really either.

For WvW the promising boon zerg Cata build and Staff DPS took quite a hit, as boons was basically all they provided over much better heals+cleanse (Tempest) or better spikes and higher DPS Uptime (Weaver).

Also stability 1 second now, yay. You can almost remove that trait now - it will still block a lot of cc by accident now but doesn't really allow on point usage to tank certain combos or finish a guy or else.

[Jski.6180]

At this point cata only roll seems to be an means of nerfing ele over all. Maybe anet needs to stop nerfering all of ele because of spvp problems that have nothing to do with wvw.

[Serephen.3420]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

At this point cata only roll seems to be an means of nerfing ele over all. Maybe anet needs to stop nerfering all of ele because of spvp problems that have nothing to do with wvw.

Pretty much spvp whiners ruin the game for everyone else, the sooner the game mode is put down the better it will be for the rest of the game. Takes one rotten apple to spoil the bunch.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Serephen.3420

[DanAlcedo.3281]

12 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Well atleast they have solved issues with catalyst energy system... oh wait...

I know it is off topic but I find it fascinating that the Catalyst energy system is just a better version on Adrenaline and people loose their kitten on how bad it is. All while an entire class has to deal with it but worse. 

 

[soulknight.9620]

21 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I know it is off topic but I find it fascinating that the Catalyst energy system is just a better version on Adrenaline and people loose their kitten on how bad it is. All while an entire class has to deal with it but worse. 

The problem is that cata energy is far worse than adrenaline. As a warrior you can get boosts of adrenaline via specific skills (like heal, headbut etc), cata cant. The only viable posibility for cata to get energy is to attack enemies and when there is no enemies or they die in 1 hit - out of luck buddy no energy for you (which translates to no quickness if ur a quick cata). Furthemore after using cata sphere there is a 5 sec ICD on energy generation (that means if you attack during these 5 secs you wont get a single energy point), warriors can generate adrenaline immediately after using burst skill (thats why you can chain a few burst skills in a row).

Altogether, you can get adrenaline out of combat (by precasting), maintain it with different skills and nonstop generate it with constantly attacking. Cata on the other hand cant generate it out of combat (you can only start a fight with full energy IF you managed to get it to full before and in instanced content where you get full resource before the encounter), it has a 5 sec icd after using a sphere, skills dont generate any energy aside from damaging (and you have to take into consideration that BIG hitter skills generate close to no energy, its the multi hitters that get you energy). 

And another thing to consider, cata energy is a major "noob trap". New players struggle to keep up with energy regen and use full potential of catalyst (a lot of them only do 1-3 spheres per rotation), while more experienced catas can get 4 spheres out per rota which is a HUGE difference in class efficiency (the difference here is "group has quick" or "no quick at all", same goes for dps since spheres are tied to empowered stacks mechanic and generate damage by themselves). Energy is just useless, it literary does nothing in pve besides being tedious to work with. It doesnt serve a limiting function since once you get a hang of it you can still get 4 spheres out (and spheres got cd you know). The only thing it does is ruin ur gameplay in OW and encounteres where there are few mobs to generate energy for quick uptime. 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

26 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

The problem is that cata energy is far worse than adrenaline. As a warrior you can get boosts of adrenaline via specific skills (like heal, headbut etc), cata cant. The only viable posibility for cata to get energy is to attack enemies and when there is no enemies or they die in 1 hit - out of luck buddy no energy for you (which translates to no quickness if ur a quick cata). Furthemore after using cata sphere there is a 5 sec ICD on energy generation (that means if you attack during these 5 secs you wont get a single energy point), warriors can generate adrenaline immediately after using burst skill (thats why you can chain a few burst skills in a row).

Altogether, you can get adrenaline out of combat (by precasting), maintain it with different skills and nonstop generate it with constantly attacking. Cata on the other hand cant generate it out of combat (you can only start a fight with full energy IF you managed to get it to full before and in instanced content where you get full resource before the encounter), it has a 5 sec icd after using a sphere, skills dont generate any energy aside from damaging (and you have to take into consideration that BIG hitter skills generate close to no energy, its the multi hitters that get you energy). 

And another thing to consider, cata energy is a major "noob trap". New players struggle to keep up with energy regen and use full potential of catalyst (a lot of them only do 1-3 spheres per rotation), while more experienced catas can get 4 spheres out per rota which is a HUGE difference in class efficiency (the difference here is "group has quick" or "no quick at all", same goes for dps since spheres are tied to empowered stacks mechanic and generate damage by themselves). Energy is just useless, it literary does nothing in pve besides being tedious to work with. It doesnt serve a limiting function since once you get a hang of it you can still get 4 spheres out (and spheres got cd you know). The only thing it does is ruin ur gameplay in OW and encounteres where there are few mobs to generate energy for quick uptime. 

I see it this way. 

Adrenaline gets deleted the second we get ooc. Energy does not. 

No we can't get Adrenaline ooc, because it gets insta deleted. 

Warrior is forced to dedicate a big part of its builds just to make adrenaline work. Meaning we have to play traits and skills we normally would never choose just so our class can function. 

Cata can just play. 

You get full benefit from your sphere regardless of the situation, while a Warrior missing their burst means they just deleted adrenaline for nothing. 

We need to hit our bursts to get any sort of trait interaction. 

 

I would trait cata energy for adrenaline any day. 

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

I was just in WvW lately for farming my legendary. I am by no means a big PvP player, just farming the stupid gift of the mists out of obvious reasons.

 

Except for me, I saw maybe 2 or 3 more elementalists.

The rest of, especially the other two servers were plain and simply over 50% thieves and harbingers and 10% HFB or so.

 

But this patch obviously states that elementalist is the problem when it is getting nerfed again...

[Polar.8634]

11 minutes ago, DaKillaOfHell.5907 said:

Except for me, I saw maybe 2 or 3 more elementalists

Wow that is a lot. Used to see less revs before cele buff, now about the same 

15 minutes ago, DaKillaOfHell.5907 said:

The rest of, especially the other two servers were plain and simply over 50% thieves and harbingers and 10% HFB or so.

Ur server does not have willbender and soulbeast?

 

[soulknight.9620]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Adrenaline gets deleted the second we get ooc. Energy does not. 

It takes quite some time to loose all the adrenaline. Its not "deleted the second we get ooc" by any way. 

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

No we can't get Adrenaline ooc, because it gets insta deleted. 

But you can, you have quite a few skill that can insta full adrenaline for you to work with right at the start of the fight. Just a few examples: "To the limit", Signet of Fury. Cata simply cannot gain any energy outside of fight. 

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Warrior is forced to dedicate a big part of its builds just to make adrenaline work. Meaning we have to play traits and skills we normally would never choose just so our class can function. 

Its not unique to warriors im afraid. Cata is built around spheres (which translates into energy). You either manage ur energy and get: stacks from auras you get, stacks from blasting sphere fields that increase ur stats, boons of the sphere; or you simple get none ot that. Which kills ur dps (if ur a dps cata) or boon uptime (if ur quickCata). And the worst part catas dont even have traits that could help with energy management (the only 2 options there dont help at all). 

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

You get full benefit from your sphere regardless of the situation, while a Warrior missing their burst means they just deleted adrenaline for nothing. 

Nope, you need to invest into tradeoffs to get boons from this sphere, otherwise its just basically a glorified combo field. The problem here is you cant upkeep enough energy to get any sphere if there is nothing to hit, which is common if: boss has invuln phase (like shiverpeaks, fraenir, ark etc), or trash mobs die to fast for you to land a single hit with the slowest weapon in the game (hammer). 

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Cata can just play. 

OW situation. I see a mob or a pack of mobs, but i have no energy to start with, i use a skill and they die generating me 6 energy (thats 6 enemies hit or hit one enemy 6 times) in total. I cant even use a single sphere. So i run to another group/mob, repeat, get another 6-8. Now i can use 1 field. I run to another group, use a field to get 5 secs of quickness and since i used my sphere i cant get any energy back for 5 secs. Mobs usually die in 5 secs. Back to the beginning. If ur lucky and you find a vet/elite you can generate 30 energy over the fight if you dont waste it on the mob itself. Thats a bank for 3 spheres. You find another mob/pack use ur spheres get 15 secs of quickness (and other boons) and since mobs died far too fast you are back at the start with 0 energy. Thats how cata plays in OW and in fracs/CW strike outside of big fat bosses. 

On the other hand i play as a spellbreaker. I use my heal to get insta full adrenaline bar and start killing stuff until they dead. I run into second group/mob use signet and im back at max adrenaline. Then my heal is up again. Rince and repeat. Now who has it better? 

[Szymon.5369]

7 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

Pretty much spvp whiners ruin the game for everyone else, the sooner the game mode is put down the better it will be for the rest of the game. Takes one rotten apple to spoil the bunch.

I know, right? If only there was a way to nerf things in one game mode without affecting the others...

[Serephen.3420]

18 minutes ago, Szymon.5369 said:

I know, right? If only there was a way to nerf things in one game mode without affecting the others...

Would be nice if they used that more.