In a future update...

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

So, what exactly are we paying for on release for this expansion?

It seems like 3/4ths of the content is coming "in a future update". So, what exactly is in release then? What are we paying for? I really dislike when we are only paying for 1/4th of the content on release, and then have to wait months for the rest of the content. It's like being drip-fed content, which is a cheap tactic.

Expansions should be packed to the brim with tons of features and new content. Enough to make you feel like you are getting your money's worth. This... this feels like a small update to the game. I've been combing through all the release notes and blogs, trying to find out what exactly is coming on release, but it seems like almost everything is not coming till a later date after release, with only a tiny bit of actual content coming on release.

Please tell me I am misreading something, and Anet is not releasing a tiny update and calling it an expansion.

 

EDIT: Bah I should of searched more. Didn't realize this topic was already posted. My bad.

Edited August 1, 2023 by SpyderArachnid.5619

[solzuul.6294]

There is some ambiguity in their posts as to which quarterly update brings certain content. Not all masteries and relics are coming on launch. Fractal release, CM strike release, and legendary relic release are unspecified. IIRC new weapon choices, 3rd map, and legendary armor are coming on the 2nd quarterly update which puts it in 2024. 

On launch you get 2 maps + hub, 3 core relics, 2 masteries, 2 strike missions, and weapon master training unlocking elite spec weapons for your base class.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by solzuul.6294

[idpersona.3810]

4 minutes ago, solzuul.6294 said:

There is some ambiguity in their posts as to which quarterly update brings certain content. Not all masteries are coming on launch. Not all relics are coming on launch. Fractal release is unspecified, CM release on strikes is unspecified, legendary relic release is unspecified. IIRC the new weapon choices, the 3rd map, and the legendary armor are coming on the 2nd quarterly update, which effectively puts it in 2024.

On launch you get 2 maps + hub, 3 core relics, 2 masteries, 2 strike missions, and weaponmaster training unlocking elite spec weapons for your base class. 

Someone correct me if I am wrong. 

Plus 12 Expansion relics. Which are all but guaranteed to be better than the core relics.

Oh, and some armor collections to do. Rift events should be on release as well.

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

So...

• Some Relics, not all of them. (not a fan, as it is content we already had being taken away from us and added to a new system that we have to grind to get back)

• 2 maps.

• 2 strike missions

• No more restrictions on elite spec weapons.

• Masteries, Collections, probably some new Achievements as well (minor content).

• Rifts (which, correct me if I'm wrong, are just the usual invasions that we already have, but with new enemies?)

• Story (assuming it is just an introduction, with the rest coming in a later update like previous expansions)

 

Is that it?

Edited August 1, 2023 by SpyderArachnid.5619

[idpersona.3810]

5 minutes ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

So...

• Some Relics, not all of them. (not a fan, as it is content we already had being taken away from us and added to a new system that we have to grind to get back)

• 2 maps.

• 2 strike missions

• No more restrictions on elite spec weapons.

• Masteries, Collections, probably some new Achievements as well (minor content).

• Rifts (which, correct me if I'm wrong, are just the usual invasions that we already have, but with new enemies?)

• Story (assuming it is just an introduction, with the rest coming in a later update like previous expansions)

 

Is that it?

I think so?. Well, mostly. I think Rifts will be more involved than the previous Rifts we've had. There's a blog post about it, though it doesn't go nearly in depth imo.

Edit: adding:

• new Skyscale aquisition
• Elite spec weapons unlockable on all builds (I'm not sure if this is a Mastery or not)
• new log-in or daily rewards (it's a bit unclear). The Wizard's Vault.

Edited August 1, 2023 by idpersona.3810

[Keymaster.7362]

I asume the wizards vault reward system will also be released in August?

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

1 minute ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I think so?. Well, mostly. I think Rifts will be more involved than the previous Rifts we've had. There's a blog post about it, though it doesn't go nearly in depth imo.

Jeez, and that's supposed to be an expansion worth of content? Seems like less content than a LW update.

I read about the Rifts, and they sound just like invasions that we already have. Rift opens, fight some enemies, once the waves are done, big boss comes out and kill him to seal the rift. It's very similar to what we already have right now. This just has the new enemies in it. So, I guess it is recycled content with a fresh coat of paint. Guess if it works, it works.

This expansion seems extremely lacking compared to previous ones.

[idpersona.3810]

2 minutes ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

This expansion seems extremely lacking compared to previous ones.

I don't disagree 😕

They let us know the new format would be "mini-expansions". We pay up front, and get the expansion content over the course of the next year. So in theory, after the year all the content added up should be about equal to a previous expansion.

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

1 minute ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I don't disagree 😕

They let us know the new format would be "mini-expansions". We pay up front, and get the expansion content over the course of the next year. So in theory, after the year all the content added up should be about equal to a previous expansion.

So charge full price for an expansion, and drip-feed the content instead of giving us a full expansion.

Ugh...

[solzuul.6294]

We pay for the promise of more frequent yearly expacs. But here's hoping we don't remove more legendary functionality for the next one. 🥲

[idpersona.3810]

3 hours ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

So charge full price for an expansion, and drip-feed the content instead of giving us a full expansion.

Ugh...

Ish. Not "full price" per se. it is slightly cheaper.

Edited August 1, 2023 by idpersona.3810

[solzuul.6294]

17 minutes ago, Keymaster.7362 said:

I asume the wizards vault reward system will also be released in August?

True, wizard's vault will be accessible through launch. 


BUT.......

Rewards will be added weekly, monthly, and with each quarterly update. 😄 So one can imagine how stripped down the launch version is. Good thing about this one though is that some of this will be available for core players, and some exclusive stuffs for SotO players. 

[Sobx.1758]

53 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I think Rifts will be more involved than the previous Rifts we've had.

Why would they be? Nothing they told us directs me at reaching similar conclusions to yours. It will probably be a faceroll zergfest like the ones before -and if it won't be initially then they'll ""fix"" it within 2-4 weeks. This is not the type of content they add to challenge players in any way, it's a bait to redirect flocks of players into certain zones each week.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[idpersona.3810]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Why would they be? Nothing they told us points me at similar conclusions to yours. It will probably be a faceroll zergfest like the ones before -and if it won't be initially then they'll ""fix"" it within 2-4 weeks. This is not the type of content they add to challenge players in any way, it's a bait to redirect flocks of players into certain zones each week.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you've written. I said I think they will be "more involved" than previous invasion mechanics.

 

3 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

First, rifts do not have cooldowns, so if you want to set a personal best for Number of Kryptis Destroyed, we've got you covered.

Second, you can begin a rift hunt in any map that has rift activity. If you happen to be in a map that does not have rift activity, the Heart of the Obscure will help you find one so you donh't spend valuable Kryptis-destroying time searching.

Third, there are multiple tiers of rifts. The first and easiest tier is intended to be completed by a solo player. (Second-tier rifts are potentially soloable as well, but it will certainly be a challenge.) That said, rift difficulty and rewards scale with group size, so you can always take on first tier rifts with a group if you prefer!

None of those 3 points apply to the Joko invasions for example. I've said elsewhere, I think this system will be successful or not based on the scaling implemented, both in difficulty and reward. I'm not overly convinced that that balance will actually be achieved. We'll see.

[voltaicbore.8012]

46 minutes ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

So charge full price for an expansion, and drip-feed the content instead of giving us a full expansion.

This is also a primary cause of concern for me. I think it's entirely possible that this idea will lose steam, the studio will have another "change of direction," and they'll hurriedly wrap things up in a grotesquely incomplete manner just to move on to the next Big Idea. Yes, this is pretty pessimistic, but frankly I think it's justified given the history of the game.

I'm pretty sure that instead of a full price expansion that shows clear signs of rush/compromise/we-just-gave-up-to-laumch-it once every few years, we're going to just pay 5 bucks less to  to see the same rush/compromise/we-just-gave-up delivered on a more regular basis.

I love this game and feel fully stuck here by sunk cost, but I have zero faith in the management behind the product.

[Sobx.1758]

34 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

I don't necessarily disagree with what you've written. I said I think they will be "more involved" than previous invasion mechanics.

 

None of those 3 points apply to the Joko invasions for example. I've said elsewhere, I think this system will be successful or not based on the scaling implemented, both in difficulty and reward. I'm not overly convinced that that balance will actually be achieved. We'll see.

So when you said they will be more involved you've just meant they can be spammed more because they're not on a timer? I don't see "changing an event from being on-timer to one being on-activation" as a meaningful difference between those events at all.
2nd point kind of... doesn't really do anything? It's basically "you can complete those events on maps where those events will be available" (each week, which is why I mentioned it's a bait for the players to flock towards certain zones each week -think "HoT weekly bubble farm" but within larger areas than just 4 HoT maps)
The 3rd point, from what I understand, means it's just in the form of waves, so they copied the same event a few times times -maybe, doesn't awakened invasion also have multiple waves?- with increasing difficulty scaling. Except "increasing difficulty scaling" where the high ones still will be rolled over by the zergs, considering the first tiers are soloable.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[WeightTrainer.3219]

1 hour ago, solzuul.6294 said:

There is some ambiguity in their posts as to which quarterly update brings certain content. Not all masteries are coming on launch. Not all relics are coming on launch. Fractal release is unspecified, CM release on strikes is unspecified, legendary relic release is unspecified. IIRC the new weapon choices, the 3rd map, and the legendary armor are coming on the 2nd quarterly update, which effectively puts it in 2024.

On launch you get 2 maps + hub, 3 core relics, 2 masteries, 2 strike missions, and weaponmaster training unlocking elite spec weapons for your base class. 

Someone correct me if I am wrong. 

I believe the 6th rune stat thing is also going away on Aug 22.

[Ashantara.8731]

As for Rift events, they already have been in the game for years, so I assume this will be mostly a recycling of the mechanic:

https://dulfyreborn.net/achievements/side-stories/current-events/gw2-helpful-hero-current-events-and-riftstalker-weapons-guide.html

[Palador.2170]

2 hours ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

So charge full price for an expansion, and drip-feed the content instead of giving us a full expansion.

Ugh...

I think this will bite them in the long run.

When people think of the current expansions, they think of everything that dropped, all at once. When they think of the new expansion (once it's all out), what will really stick in their head is anything that still feels "new". Which will be the final update, mostly. The expansion will feel VERY small after the fact.

[idpersona.3810]

46 minutes ago, Palador.2170 said:

The expansion will feel VERY small after the fact.

Almost like a living world season.
That comparison has been made many times.

[solzuul.6294]

7 minutes ago, idpersona.3810 said:

Almost like a living world season.
That comparison has been made many times.

Season 3 and 4 had six maps each. IBS had four maps + champions. Make of that what you will. 

[idpersona.3810]

4 minutes ago, solzuul.6294 said:

Season 3 and 4 had six maps each. IBS had four maps + champions. Make of that what you will. 

You're not wrong.

Maps aren't the only measure of content though. Unfortunately, we need to actually wait the full year to be able to judge (after the fact) if this setup worked for any individual one of us. Their recent track record hasn't overly inspired confidence (imo).

[Alin.2468]

This is the modern type of gaming where people pay for promises, just like people vote for promises. Many game developers do it because it actually works and people actually pay.

Back in the days people would only pay for a game once it was ready and on the shelf of a store. Nowadays people buy the content before release and possibly before it is even designed. I don't get it, likely because I am too old to understand such complex sequential releases of promises. The more I think about it, the more I realise I am too old for this game and should quit.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Alin.2468

[Linken.6345]

8 minutes ago, Alin.2468 said:

This is the modern type of gaming where people pay for promises, just like people vote for promises. Many game developers do it because it actually works and people actually pay.

Back in the days people would only pay for a game once it was ready and on the shelf of a store. Nowadays people buy the content before release and possibly before it is even designed. I don't get it, likely because I am too old to understand such complex sequential releases of promises. The more I think about it, the more I realise I am too old for this game and should quit.

Well considering you seem to be into spvp then yea you have outgrown this game since it have gone in a different direction.

[Kozumi.5816]

Drip feed is better than them withholding content until they have the fractal/strike, story mission and new map all done.