Do we need to start a petition RE: Dailies

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Tanek.5983 said:

If they could add 3) Has at least one character on the account completed the expansion intro, it would go a long way to helping this problem.

If they have left the old set of 12 dailies, people with no access to expansion areas/instances could still do their dailies by substituting easy WvW and/or SPvP ones. The same way it worked up to the recent change.

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

The ridiculous thing is that they realised they were causing an issue with their design choice. The choice to "opt out" of which game mode you wanted was only required because they'd made the "options" compulsory. Go back to having enough choices, and you never need to opt out.

Having one more choice starts to fix this, but doesn't go far enough. Reverting to 12 choices, of which you only get WV resources for the first 3, does fix it. And they will need to correct the weeklies as well; while that does have options, the reward of resources for all 6 means any time you don't complete them all, you are missing out and reducing the WV cap for the reset period. You are punishing players for not doing all the options, even when some of them are bugged out and impossible.

If you want to keep the resources the same, you give 60 for the first 4 completed and nothing if you do complete the other 2 (you could offer some rewards if you want, just not WV resources). Honestly, I would increase the number of options there as well. Make it at least 12, and possibly 15. That way if you really only want to play one game mode (like just WvW for example) then you'd still be able to ignore any option that was problematic. Hell, if you want to make it consistent, make it so the weeklies has a "logon" for one of the 4, and then choose 3 from 12 across the three game  modes.

It isn't difficult to fix this part of the new daily process properly. But the first thing we need to see, that ANET can do right now, is for them to tell us that they recognise not just that something is wrong, but what specifically is wrong. Then we can start to be confident that they'll fix it the right way.

[willow.8209]

it's nice they're adding 1 but as others have said, it doesn't go far enough.

last week I had *3* weeklies I could not complete, so I missed out on the weekly box just because of bad design. That's with 2 choices extra. 

I don't think I'm alone in that I enjoyed having lots of choices, plus it was a band-aid for bugged content, plus other various reasons. 

[Gibson.4036]

September 12th is about as close to immediate as reality allows. I’m glad we’ll have another option to choose from.

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

5 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

September 12th is about as close to immediate as reality allows. I’m glad we’ll have another option to choose from.

Their "fix" isn't actually a fix, and suggests that they don't understand the problem properly. Getting it relatively quickly is not an advantage.

For example, if I go back to selecting PvE and WvW, as I would like to, and I get one from each section that fall under the "problematic" heading, I could still be struggling to finish the dailies.

We just need to go back to the old system; 4 from each category, any 3 completes it. Why did they feel the need to change an aspect of the old process that was working fine? Change for the sake of it is pointless.

[Gibson.4036]

17 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

Their "fix" isn't actually a fix, and suggests that they don't understand the problem properly. Getting it relatively quickly is not an advantage.

For example, if I go back to selecting PvE and WvW, as I would like to, and I get one from each section that fall under the "problematic" heading, I could still be struggling to finish the dailies.

We just need to go back to the old system; 4 from each category, any 3 completes it. Why did they feel the need to change an aspect of the old process that was working fine? Change for the sake of it is pointless.

I know there are other problems, but it is an improvement in one area.

And fast.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Tanek.5983]

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If they have left the old set of 12 dailies, people with no access to expansion areas/instances could still do their dailies by substituting easy WvW and/or SPvP ones. The same way it worked up to the recent change.

Right, but I was saying if they don't want to go all the way back to 12 options all the time, there are still theings they can do to make the system better. Adding a 4th (well, 5th if you count logging in) daily is a very small step in the right direction, but they still have multiple problems to solve.

• Locking out whole game modes when the old daily achievements might have sometimes encouraged new players to try out PvP or WvW
• Giving daily or weekly objectives for expansions a player hasn't even started yet
• Limiting choice in general for how you want to play

There are discussions to be had on *how* the Wizard's Vault can be fixed. Maybe adding back all the options is one way, but that has its own challenges. Would ANet then need to add a daily/weekly cap on astral acclaim in addition to having the total capped? So you can do all 12 daily if you want, but will only get acclaim for 4 of them? I don't know. But I do think something has to be done and adding 1 daily isn't going to solve it.  If the 12th is the earliest changes will be made, then I hope in the next 2 weeks we can get more movement on solutions.

[Julischka Bean.7491]

1 hour ago, willow.8209 said:

it's nice they're adding 1 but as others have said, it doesn't go far enough.

last week I had *3* weeklies I could not complete, so I missed out on the weekly box just because of bad design. That's with 2 choices extra. 

I don't think I'm alone in that I enjoyed having lots of choices, plus it was a band-aid for bugged content, plus other various reasons. 

True.  This weekly there are two I, so far, cannot complete 😞

[Zzik.5873]

15 hours ago, Obsure One.8472 said:

Do we need to start a change.org peition to impress upon "the devs" that dailies must change?  Clearly thre's been enough negative feedback to warrant immediate changes but yet here we are.

I prefer the new dailies system, the old one was just awefull in so many way.

[Tanek.5983]

Just now, Makuragee.3058 said:

I prefer the new dailies system, the old one was just awefull in so many way.

What was wrong with the old one? Maybe there are ways to fix the new without going back to what you saw as the previous problems.

[Andrets.3891]

Just now, Makuragee.3058 said:

I prefer the new dailies system, the old one was just awefull in so many way.

Can you please elaborate on how the new dailies is better in getting 3 options (soon to be 4) over the prior 12? Seems like it is more of the same, just with much less variety and options to complete your 3 to me. So how was 12 options awful when only 3 is better?

[Zzik.5873]

Just now, Tanek.5983 said:

What was wrong with the old one? Maybe there are ways to fix the new without going back to what you saw as the previous problems.

It was burried in the achivement pannel, the activity in it were most of the time, only core stuff like activity? It was really not rewarding 10 achivement point and 2 gold... It was also conpletable waaaaaaay to quick most of the time. And we didnt have a real weekly reward. I really, really love the new wizard vault. It also help a lot with guiding new player. In fact the old system was mostly forgivable, like it didnt exist, I never bother doing the daily for the past 5 years.

[Tanek.5983]

2 minutes ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

It was burried in the achivement pannel, the activity in it were most of the time, only core stuff like activity? It was really not rewarding 10 achivement point and 2 gold... It was also conpletable waaaaaaay to quick most of the time. And we didnt have a real weekly reward. I really, really love the new wizard vault. It also help a lot with guiding new player. In fact the old system was mostly forgivable, like it didnt exist, I never bother doing the daily for the past 5 years.

Ok, in that case I agree with you. I like the *idea* of the new system. It just added some big problems for some people.
As far as guiding new players, maybe that can be an aspect of it, but right now it might "guide" those players to limit what they see and try. Plus, as I mentioned in an earlier post, it gives new players objectives in expansions they have not even touched yet, which is not good for anyone who wants to do the story in order and not be rushed to a new area.

I do think there is a way to fix it. Will just take some work and communication back and forth between players and devs.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Tanek.5983

[Zzik.5873]

1 minute ago, Tanek.5983 said:

Ok, in that case I agree with you. I like the *idea* of the new system. It just added some big problems for some people.

I do think there is a way to fix it. Will just take some work and communication back and forth between players and devs.

Oh dont get me wrong, the new system aint perfect. But its not broken either. Its a great starting point to make some adjustement here and there. I just think people are over reacting and making a ocean out of a pond.

[Tanek.5983]

1 minute ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Oh dont get me wrong, the new system aint perfect. But its not broken either. Its a great starting point to make some adjustement here and there. I just think people are over reacting and making a ocean out of a pond.

Well, whether or not it is broken for you might depend on where you are in the game, how you play, and your personal experience with the options so far.

For someone who just started HoT and is getting SotO objectives, it might feel broken.
For someone who got a bugged daily or weekly and could not complete it because there were no options, it might be broken (and ANet seems to agree on this one based on their response so far).
For someone who might want to jump into WvW or PvP only occasionally, it might feel broken by locking you in on game modes.

If it is working for you so far, I am glad. I try to see things from multiple angles since the playerbase is not uniform in how they approach the game.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

I think the update we are getting is good. Last weekend we had issues with people to being able to complete 4/4 dailies for end chest.

Now we get a 5th option and still only need to complete 4. I do agree that is less options than before, but often I see dailies now, that can be completed in 1 run.
You are always getting 1 for just logging in. Keep that in mind.

Weeklies already have this saveguard: complete 6/8 for weekly chest.

For example today (as in right now, before update) Account with everything unlocked, PvE only:

- Complete 1 event in HoT - Kill 10 enemies in HoT --> Those 2 can be combined. Plus you can pick any event from all 4 HoT maps
- Gather 15 resources with a Logging Axe. These are uber easy: Get into a full home instance (people offer all the time) and get additional 8 to 10 gold in materials.

Not sure btw if Season 3 maps would count for killing and event. Testing that right now

Yes it counted! I got the kills, the logs and the event in Ember bay in 1 run

The new system needs some polish and Rubi's post proofs they are reading our feedback. 
Give it time to soak guys and keep giving feedback.

Look I am often critical too, but screaming "bad, give old back" that sure is not gonna happen. We have a new system and we're stuck with it.
Report issues and bugs... they do read them

Overal with new changes coming, I actually now prefer the new system. I can pick what I want rather than daily chests for logging in giving me things I destroy pretty much or have no use for me. Transmutation charges, I have 9k of those... I don't need them! But the people that do, can get them still.
Exotic chest of armor: Guys the ascended is much more useful
Clovers, I bought them all!
Mystic Coins... depends on price on TP compared with price in Vault.
Legendary Weapon starter kit: That is 500 gold right there!
Griffon skin... without using gems! 

The new system has a lot of positives, just keep giving your feedback for them to improve it.

[vares.8457]

10 minutes ago, Tanek.5983 said:

I try to see things from multiple angles

I am not sure you are allowed to do that here on the forums. 

[Andrets.3891]

8 minutes ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

It was burried in the achivement pannel, the activity in it were most of the time, only core stuff like activity? It was really not rewarding 10 achivement point and 2 gold... It was also conpletable waaaaaaay to quick most of the time. And we didnt have a real weekly reward. I really, really love the new wizard vault. It also help a lot with guiding new player. In fact the old system was mostly forgivable, like it didnt exist, I never bother doing the daily for the past 5 years.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree the dailies are definitely more visible now on their own page, but there are quite a few issues with this-

• They are now segregated from the rest of the dailies (LW, EoD, fractals, etc.) and the WvW weeklies
• The new interface gives me network errors occasionally and is clunky- it would be really nice to get the bouncy chests back instead of needing to go and click into the Wizard's Vault to claim them.
• The old system gave some nice rewards which are now gone- mystic forger gave us an extra coin, PvP dailies gave us PvP reward track pots, dungeon dailies gave us dungeon currency, WvW dailies gave us WvW reward track pots and so on. These are ALL gone now.
• There is some illusion of choice with the new system. It is deceiving and makes it look like you could get more than the old login rewards/dailies but Anet kept the cap nearly the same. For example, the max mystic coins and mystic clovers you can get from the Wizards Vault in a quarter is only roughly equivalent to what you could get before w/out mystic forger daily and that was from only doing the daily login.
• Lack of choice- we used to get 12 options each day and now we are down to 3 (soon to be 4)
• The system gives dailies players can't complete when they are not far enough into the game
• Even though they claim it doesn't, it does act as a Battlepass in that if you didn't buy SotO, you are limited to what you can pick. The skins, mount, and one of the mat bags cannot be purchased with AA. I imagine going forward each of these expansions will continue adding things you can only get if you buy the newest expansion
• Missing stuff in the wizard's vault which you could previously get from the daily login rewards- black lion keys (rare before but still obtainable), mystic forge stones, mystic salvage kits, black lion vendor, TP access, Bank access, and several others
• There are inconsistencies in the dailies and weekly choices people get and it impacts the ability to complete them with friends
• The old system encouraged players to try other game modes
• The new system doesn't guide you very well as claimed, although the prior system wasn't really any better. Example- kill 100 Void enemies, perform 3 combo attacks, go do X event/JP. It would be really nice if the game gave more direction/assistance for players on how to complete them instead of forcing players to the wiki, forums, or reddit. Where can we find these Void enemies? Where does the event take place? And so on.

These are all fixable, but it doesn't seem like Anet intends to fix most of them based on their response so far.

There are great parts about it too-

• Getting the options to get some account upgrades which used to be gems only as well as skins (assuming you bought the expansion)
• Making Ascendeds and Legendaries more accessible
• Having the choice on what to spend the points on
• Added the Weekly
• Making the game more active and giving more of the rewards for doing the daily/weekly (versus only logging in)

To your comment of " It was also conpletable waaaaaaay to quick most of the time", compared to the old system, the new dailies can still sometimes be completed just as quickly as the old system. We'll need to see how often that is the case going forward.

[Gibson.4036]

Nevermind. Probably get reported for what was intended as good natured ribbing

Edited August 29, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Gravitron.7982]

Petitions aren't effective these days. Voting with your wallet is way more effective.

[Tanek.5983]

24 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

Petitions aren't effective these days. Voting with your wallet is way more effective.

The problem with this is, my wallet already "voted" for the expansion based on how ArenaNet has handled things in the past. If I wait for my next opportunity without voicing my feedback in other ways, they may take this new direction as one I approve and by the time I "vote" again it is too late.

I'd rather let them know now and, hopefully, they steer back to a course that has the kind of respect for the available time and varied playstyles of the playerbase that they have shown in the past. Nothing is going to be perfect for everyone, but I'm still struggling to believe they did not see the problems a change like this could cause.

[Gravitron.7982]

Just now, Tanek.5983 said:

The problem with this is, my wallet already "voted" for the expansion based on how ArenaNet has handled things in the past. If I wait for my next opportunity without voicing my feedback in other ways, they may take this new direction as one I approve and by the time I "vote" again it is too late.

I'd rather let them know now and, hopefully, they steer back to a course that has the kind of respect for the available time and varied playstyles of the playerbase that they have shown in the past. Nothing is going to be perfect for everyone, but I'm still struggling to believe they did not see the problems a change like this could cause.

I feel your pain, you've already paid up ahead of time expecting a good product, but did not get what you paid for. That's why I no longer pre-order and wait for actual reviews before opening my wallet. Game companies like Anent know a lot of people are going to open their wallet without even waiting to see how the product turned out, effectively crowdfunding them.

I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your concerns, but I mean if you don't purchase the next expansion, and many many others follow suit, and their quarterly reports begin to drastically trend downwards, well....someone is going to wonder why and hopefully determine that the quality of the product has decreased significantly. It's not until paychecks are smaller and smaller, that people start to listen.

[Tanek.5983]

8 minutes ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

I feel your pain, you've already paid up ahead of time expecting a good product, but did not get what you paid for. That's why I no longer pre-order and wait for actual reviews before opening my wallet. Game companies like Anent know a lot of people are going to open their wallet without even waiting to see how the product turned out, effectively crowdfunding them.

I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your concerns, but I mean if you don't purchase the next expansion, and many many others follow suit, and their quarterly reports begin to drastically trend downwards, well....someone is going to wonder why and hopefully determine that the quality of the product has decreased significantly. It's not until paychecks are smaller and smaller, that people start to listen.

Well, that's the thing. If they don't course-correct on this, I probably won't get the next expansion until I know for sure it doesn't have similar issues. But that won't be for at least a year, by which time we may have drifted even farther away.

For SotO, I knew I was going to buy the expansion because ANet had earned that kind of trust from me over the 15+ years I have played GW/GW2. I certainly don't do that with other games I play. Even now, I trust that, with feedback, we can get to a real solution for the Wizard's Vault. If not...well, my purchasing habits will change.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Tanek.5983

[Gravitron.7982]

35 minutes ago, Tanek.5983 said:

Well, that's the thing. If they don't course-correct on this, I probably won't get the next expansion until I know for sure it doesn't have similar issues. But that won't be for at least a year, by which time we may have drifted even farther away.

For SotO, I knew I was going to buy the expansion because ANet had earned that kind of trust from me over the 15+ years I have played GW/GW2. I certainly don't do that with other games I play. Even now, I trust that, with feedback, we can get to a real solution for the Wizard's Vault. If not...well, my purchasing habits will change.

Yeah I feel that, hopefully they don't let it get that far but it seems that's the direction they are going now. 

[Solvar.7953]

I suspect a petition is meaningless (they can already see all the forum posts).

If everyone stopped buying the expansion, gems, etc, then Anet might realize they took things in a direction that the players are not interested in and change course.  I've not given Anet any money for quite some time - from about IBS and through EoD, I was not particularly impressed what was being offered, and there was no way I was going to buy something blind (especially given the number of other good games out there right now that I can play instead)

Maybe if they fix some of these issues, and I see more of what SotO has to offer (after next drop or other drops), I might change my mind.