[Feedback] Legendary Obsidian Armor

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Crazy.2618 said:

I just want to say that i am extremely  disappointed in how easy it was or is to get the PVE obsidian Legendary Armor compared to the other sets. It took me 2 years in WVW playing daily working to get the full weekly amount of  Skirmish tickets that are time gate/ max per week... Why did they make is so easy to get this pve armor. I have played the game since start and nothing is given for free... is this game starting to die off? I just don't get why it was so easy to get the PVE compared to WVW, PVP or Raid set? Regardless, welcome to the club Pve'ers enjoy it opens up the game to try so many more builds.

First, if you think Obsidian armor is given "for free", you have some weird standarts of what constitutes "free" - it's the armor with the biggest pricetag attached (and not by a small margin). Second, if you think WvW armor is "hard" (or harder than obsidian, you again have some weird standarts.

Hint: the reason why a lot of PvE players were unsatisfied with WvW acquisition path for legendary armor had nothing to do with its difficulty, because it just can't get much easier. It was always solely about this path taking place in a content most GW2 players happen to not be fond of, nothing more. Same with SPvP - that armor set can be obtained by literally afking, if you haven't noticed. Well, apart from mats/gold cost, but, like i've already mentioned, Obsidian armor price tag is the highest of all options at the moment.

[firedragon.8953]

32 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Same with SPvP - that armor set can be obtained by literally afking, if you haven't noticed.

To be fair...so can obsidian armor. Well, minus the map completions. 
 

34 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Obsidian armor price tag is the highest of all options at the moment

By the time you collect all the SotO curriencies, you'll almost have all your ectos from the salvaging rares that drop (or basically any pve in game). gw2efficiency even shows the price is comparable to the other armors, and successive sets are actually CHEAPER since you don't need to complete the Astral Ward and Oneiros sets.
So, I'd agree that obsidian armor is "free" in terms of effort. Of course there's a gold sink, but you can basically work on it passively if you're patient. 

A general note about "devaluing" of legendaries. The truth is, gearing as become a lot easier the past few years with the introduction of accessible stat selectable exotics and Vault ascended gear. That also technically devalues legendary gear, but honestly, I'd rather more people just play content and not have the "gear grind" the main prohibiting factor. As someone that has done raid leggy armor, I don't really care. Skins are different for all legendary armor sets, so people know the work that went into each one. In the end, I like that the utility has become more accessible to more players, even if it may merely require more persistence than skill to acquire it.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, firedragon.8953 said:

To be fair...so can obsidian armor. Well, minus the map completions.

Factually untrue. Obsidian armor requires more engagement than WvW set. (and SPvP's engagement requirements are so low we should not even consider it for comparison at all).

1 hour ago, firedragon.8953 said:

By the time you collect all the SotO curriencies, you'll almost have all your ectos from the salvaging rares that drop (or basically any pve in game). gw2efficiency even shows the price is comparable to the other armors, and successive sets are actually CHEAPER since you don't need to complete the Astral Ward and Oneiros sets.
So, I'd agree that obsidian armor is "free" in terms of effort. Of course there's a gold sink, but you can basically work on it passively if you're patient.

So, it's "free" because you decided to conveniently ignore everything that would make it not so. Duly noted.

1 hour ago, firedragon.8953 said:

A general note about "devaluing" of legendaries. The truth is, gearing as become a lot easier the past few years with the introduction of accessible stat selectable exotics and Vault ascended gear. That also technically devalues legendary gear, but honestly, I'd rather more people just play content and not have the "gear grind" the main prohibiting factor. As someone that has done raid leggy armor, I don't really care. Skins are different for all legendary armor sets, so people know the work that went into each one. In the end, I like that the utility has become more accessible to more players, even if it may merely require more persistence than skill to acquire it.

With that i agree on all counts. I just disagre with claiming that Obsidian is somehow "easier" than WvW or SPvP sets. It's definitely more "accessible" for majority of game's population, but that increase in accessibility has nothing to do with difficulty, and merely by fact that it can be obtained through content most players play, instead of one that only small minorities frequent.

 

[firedragon.8953]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Factually untrue. Obsidian armor requires more engagement than WvW set. (and SPvP's engagement requirements are so low we should not even consider it for comparison at all).

Is it? I mean, you can essentially afk every SotO meta and just tag the boss at the end. Do this 30 times in each map, and done. Sure, that's maybe 1% more effort than clicking the ready up button in pvp, but less work than being a yakslapper to farm pips in WvW or what have you. You can do similar things in convergences as well. Again, the only thing that requires consistent interaction is map completion and lanterns, but this has zero chance of failure and is nearly second-monitor content. Not saying people should actually do this (and obviously it wouldn't actually work if everyone afked a meta, lol). It sounds pretty unfun. But, so does afking in PvP and slapping yaks every 10 minutes in the borderlands. I think it's very comparable. Go ahead and enlighten me on how it is not though.

The only armor that requires any actual effort is raid armor since you need to understand your role, have a semi-solid team, and you can also fail all day at Vale Guardian, never getting a single LI. That's why there are raid sellers in the lfg and in none of the other lfg tabs for game modes that offer other leggy armors. Every other leggy armor set can essentially be boiled down to a "participation trophy." Of course, it doesn't have to be. It'd be great if all people got sPvP armor because they love sPvP, or WvW because they love WvW, or raid armor because they love raiding, or open world armor because they love metas and convergences. and actively engage with the content.. but we all know that's not the reality.
 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, it's "free" because you decided to conveniently ignore everything that would make it not so. Duly noted.

What is this "everything" I am ignoring? The armor takes a bunch of account bound currencies by engaging in specific content and a airship full of trophy materials, just like every other leggy armor. Only thing really different is the amount of ectos you need (which I explained the insignificance for above). I'm crafting an obsidian armor set right now, and honestly, it doesn't seem much more expensive now if I just avoid the over inflated materials on the TP due to the current armor rush. Definitely seems cheaper than a gen 2 leggy weapon. And anyway, I specifically said, "it's 'free' in terms of effort." I'm not saying it costs zero gold or whatever (which I also mentioned). But, I am curious by what you mean when I'm ignoring everything, because I am working on a set now.

Anyway, this is getting super ranty, and it's not meant to be. I'm 100% fine with obsidian armor. I'm getting a set myself (love that medium). I just find it very comparable to any other non-raid leggy armor.

[Crazy.2618]

Hi, it it takes 20-29 weeks to get ONE set of Legendary WVW armor if you play through the weekly chests for the squirmish tickets and each week takes about 15-19hours of gameplay to get. So 3 sets is at the very least 60 weeks of gameplay and then the ring is another few weeks. My statement of 2years was a little loose(but not far off- probably 1.5yrs) as once again you would have to play 60-87 weeks straight 15-19 hours per week just to purchase all 18 pieces. Plus the ring or (2) plus if you want the flasher version Mistforged Triumphant Heros armor, That cost even more tickets and time. So definably no one got wvw armor in 2 weeks unless there was a glitch(probably 2 weeks for or less for the new PVE set if you farmed the mats prior)..

The biggest take away I was getting at, is not the money or mats but the time it takes to get WVW armor is exponentially longer then the new PVE Obsidian armor, I just felt a little ripped off that's all.  

Edited March 29 by Crazy.2618

[Crazy.2618]

On 3/28/2024 at 3:32 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

First, if you think Obsidian armor is given "for free", you have some weird standarts of what constitutes "free" - it's the armor with the biggest pricetag attached (and not by a small margin). Second, if you think WvW armor is "hard" (or harder than obsidian, you again have some weird standarts.

I think I was talking most of the time - don't read into that more then you have to. If you have been playing the game for any length of time you would have most of the mats or money to buy the mats. If you had been even remotely rift farming you would probably have the essence to make the obsidian armor when this new map and expansion went live. That is where or why I meant free. I just finished my WVW set in Jan/24 and it just took forever as things are time gated with the tickets... so after 18m of playing pretty much every week I finished all 3 sets, then the SOTO expansion comes out and people could make the Obsidian armor in probably under 2 weeks.  It felt unfair that's all.

Edited March 29 by Crazy.2618

[Therac.6431]

Obsidian is the best gift from SOTO, easy to make compared with sPvP (3 seasons), WvW (the hardest and more brain damage) and Raid armor, 2 weeks and i run from 0 to a complete set.

[Zera.9435]

On 3/28/2024 at 7:27 AM, firedragon.8953 said:

Is it? I mean, you can essentially afk every SotO meta and just tag the boss at the end. Do this 30 times in each map, and done. Sure, that's maybe 1% more effort than clicking the ready up button in pvp, but less work than being a yakslapper to farm pips in WvW or what have you. You can do similar things in convergences as well. Again, the only thing that requires consistent interaction is map completion and lanterns, but this has zero chance of failure and is nearly second-monitor content. Not saying people should actually do this (and obviously it wouldn't actually work if everyone afked a meta, lol). It sounds pretty unfun. But, so does afking in PvP and slapping yaks every 10 minutes in the borderlands. I think it's very comparable. Go ahead and enlighten me on how it is not though.

No one who actually wants the obsidian armor is going to be doing the kitten afk method you are talking about. That is extremely inefficient. The people working on the armor are actively playing the content to get done in a reasonable time frame even if the content isn't the greatest. The only reason people do afk kitten in pvp is because pvp is not fun, not really rewarding, and are only doing it because it's easier to do that than to actually do pvp. Why actually try in pvp when you can just afk and get the same rewards you're going for anyway? The same can be said for the WvW afk kitten.

Sure, you could afk in convergences and get credit, but it is highly inefficient and would take LONGER than actually playing actively and supplementing your essences with rift hunting with the buff you get from convergences. You don't even have to farm rifts every day like I did (I just did it because I was working on all 3 sets and needed a metric kittenton of essences). You can just do the weeklies and get a modest amount each week.

[Zera.9435]

On 3/28/2024 at 7:27 AM, firedragon.8953 said:

That's why there are raid sellers in the lfg and in none of the other lfg tabs for game modes that offer other leggy armors. Every other leggy armor set can essentially

Sorry, I meant to touch on this in my prior post but forgot. Here, you are literally describing a participation trophy. In those raid runs where you are carried through and aren't actually expected to contribute in any way (other than getting the hell out of their way), you can get your rewards without really doing anything at all.

Ergo, by your standards, all legendary armor is a participation trophy, especially the raid armor.

[Ashen.2907]

Looking at the requirements I found the WvW set to be the easiest. I played the game mode without thinking about the armor until one day a guildie asked how many skirmish tickets I had. I had no clue but checked my wallet and told him a little over 25k...

I guess my point is, enjoy the game. You can get most rewards in a variety of ways. I recently bought a few legendary weapons off of the tp (because I didnt feel like doing more map completion) with gold earned playing content that I enjoy and felt like at the time. If none of the leggie armor acquisition methods appeal...so be it, but there are plenty of other options for your rewards.

[firedragon.8953]

5 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

No one who actually wants the obsidian armor is going to be doing the kitten afk method you are talking about. That is extremely inefficient. The people working on the armor are actively playing the content to get done in a reasonable time frame even if the content isn't the greatest. The only reason people do afk kitten in pvp is because pvp is not fun, not really rewarding, and are only doing it because it's easier to do that than to actually do pvp. Why actually try in pvp when you can just afk and get the same rewards you're going for anyway? The same can be said for the WvW afk kitten.

Ughh... I'm not going to keep going back and forth on this, because your arguments are either wrong, or just conjecture/opinion. 
Only reason people afk in pvp is because pvp is not fun? That's your opinon. Many people think doing the same meta over and over 30+ times as not fun. It's obvious people afk metas and convergences, just open your eyes.  People have afked GW2 metas since octovine.
 

5 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Sure, you could afk in convergences and get credit, but it is highly inefficient and would take LONGER than actually playing actively

Funny, the the exact same thing could be said about pvp. You get more pips for ranking in matches, winning, etc. So, again, a moot (and not the fun norn kind) point.

Regarding raids.

5 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

Here, you are literally describing a participation trophy. In those raid runs where you are carried through and aren't actually expected to contribute in any way (other than getting the hell out of their way), you can get your rewards without really doing anything at all.

You are right, paying for raid clears are a participation trophy. This is hardly "all" legendary armor, just like some people also work for their obsidian armor, especially commanders leading metas, etc. Personally I know no one that has bought raid clears, but admittingly there must be plenty for people to still be advertising it. HOWEVER, my point was that you don't need to even pay for a carry with obsidian armor because you can just poke the meta boss or whatever and have people carry you for free. And if it's about buying leggy armor progress, you can literally buy kryptis essense off the TP with Unstable Kryptis Essense Coffers and Unstable Kryptis Motivations. These are extremely popular because now the motivations are around 8g a pop and I sell the one I get from my weekly converge reward every week! Raids may list clears in lfg by raid sellers, but hundreds of convergence sellers, including myself, list their clears directly on the TP. The only difference is, with obsidian armor, Anet decided to bake in convergence clears as part of the system instead of relying on community curated "services " which is great because it's extra profit for the majority of people playing the content, rather than a select few.

To say that obsidian armor is harder than sPvP, WvW, or for heavensake raids is just ignorant. But, I'm done arguing. There is no point in arguing this with you to convince you (or others) otherwise. It's obvious to me that you have not engaged with other legendary armor crafting paths nor have you thought about the obsidian armor path enough to see that it is just as exploitable, if not more (in comparison to raid armor), through afk and buying methods as the other armors.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[Derktarlms.6213]

Taking out wvw legendary armor is so much more relaxed and less repetitive that I'm happy to finish my first set

[Zera.9435]

2 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Ughh... I'm not going to keep going back and forth on this, because your arguments are either wrong, or just conjecture/opinion. 
Only reason people afk in pvp is because pvp is not fun? That's your opinon. Many people think doing the same meta over and over 30+ times as not fun. It's obvious people afk metas and convergences, just open your eyes.  People have afked GW2 metas since octovine.
 

Funny, the the exact same thing could be said about pvp. You get more pips for ranking in matches, winning, etc. So, again, a moot (and not the fun norn kind) point.

Regarding raids.

You are right, paying for raid clears are a participation trophy. This is hardly "all" legendary armor, just like some people also work for their obsidian armor, especially commanders leading metas, etc. Personally I know no one that has bought raid clears, but admittingly there must be plenty for people to still be advertising it. HOWEVER, my point was that you don't need to even pay for a carry with obsidian armor because you can just poke the meta boss or whatever and have people carry you for free. And if it's about buying leggy armor progress, you can literally buy kryptis essense off the TP with Unstable Kryptis Essense Coffers and Unstable Kryptis Motivations. These are extremely popular because now the motivations are around 8g a pop and I sell the one I get from my weekly converge reward every week! Raids may list clears in lfg by raid sellers, but hundreds of convergence sellers, including myself, list their clears directly on the TP. The only difference is, with obsidian armor, Anet decided to bake in convergence clears as part of the system instead of relying on community curated "services " which is great because it's extra profit for the majority of people playing the content, rather than a select few.

To say that obsidian armor is harder than sPvP, WvW, or for heavensake raids is just ignorant. But, I'm done arguing. There is no point in arguing this with you to convince you (or others) otherwise. It's obvious to me that you have not engaged with other legendary armor crafting paths nor have you thought about the obsidian armor path enough to see that it is just as exploitable, if not more (in comparison to raid armor), through afk and buying methods as the other armors.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

I'm not that one that said obby armor is 'harder' than the others. That's some other dude. Also, why in the hell would I bother engaging with legendary armor crafting in other paths if that content does not interest me? Tell me, did you make all 4 types of legendary armor sets for all 3 armor classes (raid, pvp, wvw, and obby)? I doubt it. Just because I only made the 3 obby armor does not mean I don't get to talk about the others. If you think I shouldn't talk about the other 3 paths of legendary armors, then you shouldn't either because you haven't made all of them, either.

So, you can either accept that all the legendary armors are participation trophies, per your words, or you can accept that each set has its own unique challenges, some of which that can be circumvented in some form or another. Either way, at the end of the day envoy armor is equivalent to obby armor. We're on equal footing whether you like it or not.

[Donari.5237]

10 hours ago, Crazy.2618 said:

I think I was talking most of the time - don't read into that more then you have to. If you have been playing the game for any length of time you would have most of the mats or money to buy the mats. If you had been even remotely rift farming you would probably have the essence to make the obsidian armor when this new map and expansion went live. That is where or why I meant free. I just finished my WVW set in Jan/24 and it just took forever as things are time gated with the tickets... so after 18m of playing pretty much every week I finished all 3 sets, then the SOTO expansion comes out and people could make the Obsidian armor in probably under 2 weeks.  It felt unfair that's all.

The only reason they could make it so fast was they had over 5 months notice on the requirements and worked on them throughout that time, so once the armor was released there was very little left to do to fill in the gaps.  I was almost instantly ready to make one set because I worked at it during all those months.  I wasn't sure what would be required to make all 18 pieces, so I held off on accumulating more.  Now I've made half the second set and can make a 4th piece in it fairly soon, though some bad RL stuff has drastically slowed me down -- but it seems very unlikely to me that anyone made all 18 pieces inside of two weeks starting from scratch.  Even if they used real money for gems to gold to buy the buyable parts, there's still just so much exploration, meta completions, and essence gathering to do it would be very difficult to do it that fast.  (Yes, with enough gold you can now buy essence via the tradeable containers from convergences ... that would take a leviathan among whales to do, however).

[Ashantara.8731]

On 3/28/2024 at 10:32 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

like i've already mentioned, Obsidian armor price tag is the highest of all options at the moment.

...and the most annoying option as well.

[Firefly.5982]

Can everyone who complains that anything is 'too easy' please ask themselves WHY something being 'easy' is bothering you?!

If anything, something being too difficult is what should bother people and where your energy of protest to achieve change should go.

If something is easy, more people get to enjoy it, which is a good thing.

Unless you don't want as many people as possible to enjoy a good thing in which case...yeah, examine that maybe.

(Not to mention how objectively ridiculous it is to complain about Obsidian armor being too easy to get...lul)

[Therac.6431]

18 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Looking at the requirements I found the WvW set to be the easiest. I played the game mode without thinking about the armor until one day a guildie asked how many skirmish tickets I had. I had no clue but checked my wallet and told him a little over 25k...

I guess my point is, enjoy the game. You can get most rewards in a variety of ways. I recently bought a few legendary weapons off of the tp (because I didnt feel like doing more map completion) with gold earned playing content that I enjoy and felt like at the time. If none of the leggie armor acquisition methods appeal...so be it, but there are plenty of other options for your rewards.

WvW when you enjoy the content is the most funny game mode on the game, is weird when someone stay 15 hours per week killing yaks with 7 pips per 5 min trying get the armor, pure insanity, 5 months doing the same thing while you can just learn PvE mechanics from Raid or craft the Obsidian (has been my choice, solid 2 weeks to craft a complete set)