(US) Gold 2 is the new normal

[Mell.4873]

I have noticed my rank drop down to gold 2 then a checked the top 250 players and realized its now down as low as 1400. It's pretty sad and very likely we will never see a Legendary player ever again. An entire Division is inaccessible to anyone in the game with gold 2 being the bulk of high-end PvP.

I can't wait for the top 250 players to be in silver.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

d e p r e s s i o n

[Khalisto.5780]

We should have the 3-4 month patches and duo q removal back in 2018

Still the biggest problem in pvp is the afk fest, the new player experience is just awful and scare away the few new players we could get

[Bast.7253]

23 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I have noticed my rank drop down to gold 2 then a checked the top 250 players and realized its now down as low as 1400. It's pretty sad and very likely we will never see a Legendary player ever again. An entire Division is inaccessible to anyone in the game with gold 2 being the bulk of high-end PvP.

I can't wait for the top 250 players to be in silver.

Isn't the top 250 really more like top 125? When you factor out alts and alts of alts. I don't think silver's a thing anymore. I don't think any of it matters at this point. Fairly certain I've had everything from bronze to plat in my matches and I straddle at gold 1/gold 2. Once I get to gold 3 I get your usual one-sided wipefest to knock me back onto a losing streak. 

[Bast.7253]

Just now, Khalisto.5780 said:

We should have the 3-4 month patches and duo q removal back in 2018

Still the biggest problem in pvp is the afk fest, the new player experience is just awful and scare away the few new players we could get

Nah. I think it's more likely the raw damage+non-stop cc chains that run most new players off. Especially since both unranked and ranked are filled with the same veteran players, often group queued, and far above the new player's average skill level. 

I really doubt any new players are even stepping foot into pvp though. Likely just doing expansions and open world stuff as that's how the game is marketed and what it's most popular for. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Think it's been gold 2 for over a year now, but definitely worse than six months ago.  I think I had to be 1480 to just make it Top 250 back in Jan/Feb season, but now yeah, it's 1425 to make it to low end 250.

Agre with Top 125 though, as you know it's bad when people make smurf accounts to farm and then THOSE accounts end up in the top 250 too.  

Also, someone said it in another topic, but Gold 2 seems to be where the game wants you to be right now, no matter what you do.  For fun I tried to climb into Gold 3, and before I could do it even on non-main classes trying to get Ascencion...but now as soon as I get near it, like 3-4 games that are blowouts.  

So, wondering if there was some change to the matchmaker to center people into that bracket to try to combat that the top 250 is all but meaningless, however the titles should hold some meaning but won't if everyone makes it.  To ensure that, they just rig it so that it's a lottery if you make it, unless you are actively wintrading.  

[Shagie.7612]

today is the day the gw2 pvp community discovers what a normal distribution is in statistics

i understand tbh, it's an awful field, i'd remove that information from my brain if i could

[Barabbas.8715]

7 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

It's pretty sad and very likely we will never see a Legendary player ever again.

Legendary at what? Cheating? Win trading?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

today is the day the gw2 pvp community discovers what a normal distribution is in statistics

i understand tbh, it's an awful field, i'd remove that information from my brain if i could

Not even the matchmaker knows what it is, because on a bell curve the middle here is silver 3, not gold 2.  Your low end should be bronze - low silver, mid range would be high silver to low gold, then top range high gold to low plat and high edge case would be high plat - legendary.  

Essentially bronze and legendary are currently unattainable normally, so the whole thing shifts up to where matchmaker wants non-competent in silver, competent in gold, queue dodger / serial DuoQ'er plat and wintrader / illumanati in legendary.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Not even the matchmaker knows what it is, because on a bell curve the middle here is silver 3, not gold 2.  Your low end should be bronze - low silver, mid range would be high silver to low gold, then top range high gold to low plat and high edge case would be high plat - legendary.  

Essentially bronze and legendary are currently unattainable normally, so the whole thing shifts up to where matchmaker wants non-competent in silver, competent in gold, queue dodger / serial DuoQ'er plat and wintrader / illumanati in legendary.

Even the placement matches get confused. I was placed in Plat 1 when I won only 8 of the 10 matches.

[Dreams.3128]

And here I thought I was going nuts when I saw gold 3s in top 250. NA is really really sad rn. 

[oujiboardspamname.1932]

You'll see a legend by the end of the season. People can't go a single season without a boosted ape. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

56 minutes ago, oujiboardspamname.1932 said:

boosted ape. 

this deserves an nft

[garkos.2973]

I made it to plat2 soloq only.

But I only streamsnipe or do a few games after a prime time at.

The problem is there are not enough accounts that have enough mmr and you end up getting + 6 and -19 outside of those times.

 

The other thing is that a bunch of the accs with enough rating just play duoq at 4am.

 

See topic about guide to play like pro gamers

[Gamble.4580]

I normally look at top 100 over top 250, as knight title really is a free tittle, brand new pvpers just playing conquest can achive it for free. Top 100 pvp lvl is where the player base is at. The higher top 100s rank is the more poeple are playing. If its 1500 its a dead season.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

its the natural process of the match maker constantly trying to pull everyone towards a 50/50 win/loss ratio, but doing it by taking away more points for losing than it gives for winning, so the average games won actually drops over time and compresses the ladder.

 

most players who would be legendaries in the past have been demoted into platinum-3, even platinum-2, and players who were in those tiers have dropped to gold despite no change in skill level and having even more experience than in the past.

 

someone mentioned normalisation, but you can't have normalisation when its unbalanced. it would have to be +10 and -10 in both directions, not +5 and -15. eventually you'll start to see players even with 40-45% win ratio only as the game keeps trying hard to pull them back into the middle but can't do so because its not giving enough points, and that's why the entire ladder is gradually becoming inverse logarithmic instead of linear.

 

imagine that the ladder has gravity and everyone is trying to get away from the ground but most of us only manage to jump and those that manage to fly are exploiting the system with stuff like dual queue, not because its actually possible to fly on their own, while also telling others to "git gud".

 

this would've eventually happened even with a large playerbase, because its just poorly designed.

Edited September 11, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Shagie.7612]

On 9/10/2023 at 1:44 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

because on a bell curve the middle here is silver 3, not gold 2. 

the middle is 1200 u goober it literally says it right on the wiki page

4 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

this would've eventually happened even with a large playerbase, because its just poorly designed.

every ranking system eventually trends towards 50/50
it happens in every single game
you're really gonna sit here and say that every single matchmaking system is poorly designed, across virtually every activity/video game/sport/whatever?

i think you don't know what you're talking about lol

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

the middle is 1200 u goober it literally says it right on the wiki page

Probably should google 'what is a bell curve' before you make yourself look even sillier.

[Shagie.7612]

58 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Probably should google 'what is a bell curve' before you make yourself look even sillier.

yes, sure, but the mean here is 1200, it's not silver 3
that's why matchmaking places a brand new player there too

[Gundam Style.8495]

Most EU players would be silver in the US, you didn't need to specify region.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

55 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

yes, sure, but the mean here is 1200, it's not silver 3
that's why matchmaking places a brand new player there too

We're talking probability though not literal middle, because we are talking about the matchmaker which has to work on some kind of distribution.

Silver 3 is 1100-1199 which is close to 1200 anyway, just more probable most people are there skill wise to avoid overmatches.  

In either case, it isn't Gold 2.  

[magickthief.6492]

Most players are boosted by "soft reset"....you literally start at 1200...lol...win more

Edited September 12, 2023 by magickthief.6492

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 9/9/2023 at 11:45 PM, Shagie.7612 said:

today is the day the gw2 pvp community discovers what a normal distribution is in statistics

i understand tbh, it's an awful field, i'd remove that information from my brain if i could

There are "lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (Mark Twain, Benjamin Disraeli (British prime minister 1874-1880))

Statistics should be judged in the context that they are used, otherwise they are misleading.

On 9/11/2023 at 7:24 PM, Shagie.7612 said:

the middle is 1200 u goober it literally says it right on the wiki page

every ranking system eventually trends towards 50/50
it happens in every single game
you're really gonna sit here and say that every single matchmaking system is poorly designed, across virtually every activity/video game/sport/whatever?

This is why context is important. That 1200 is used with the intent and assumption that all the divisions are populated. However, that number ceases to be functional and most certainly detrimental with a low population. The middle is NOT 1200.

On 9/11/2023 at 7:24 PM, Shagie.7612 said:

you're really gonna sit here and say that every single matchmaking system is poorly designed, across virtually every activity/video game/sport/whatever?

Why not? It's a good argument. Online multiplayer games use similar matchmaking schemes designed to give the illusion of progress. It's akin to gambling.

On 9/11/2023 at 11:13 PM, Shagie.7612 said:

yes, sure, but the mean here is 1200, it's not silver 3
that's why matchmaking places a brand new player there too

The word you're looking for is median, that is, the middle of a dataset. The mean is the average. And with the majority of players in silver, I can assure you that the middle is not 1200!

On 9/11/2023 at 2:55 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

its the natural process of the match maker constantly trying to pull everyone towards a 50/50 win/loss ratio, but doing it by taking away more points for losing than it gives for winning, so the average games won actually drops over time and compresses the ladder.

 

most players who would be legendaries in the past have been demoted into platinum-3, even platinum-2, and players who were in those tiers have dropped to gold despite no change in skill level and having even more experience than in the past.

 

someone mentioned normalisation, but you can't have normalisation when its unbalanced. it would have to be +10 and -10 in both directions, not +5 and -15. eventually you'll start to see players even with 40-45% win ratio only as the game keeps trying hard to pull them back into the middle but can't do so because its not giving enough points, and that's why the entire ladder is gradually becoming inverse logarithmic instead of linear.

 

imagine that the ladder has gravity and everyone is trying to get away from the ground but most of us only manage to jump and those that manage to fly are exploiting the system with stuff like dual queue, not because its actually possible to fly on their own, while also telling others to "git gud".

 

this would've eventually happened even with a large playerbase, because its just poorly designed.

So basically, the system has crumbled. Nobody can climb this ladder ever again lmao! (shakes head)....Aaah....so glad I quit lmao.

[Shagie.7612]

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

The word you're looking for is median, that is, the middle of a dataset. The mean is the average. And with the majority of players in silver, I can assure you that the middle is not 1200!

The mean, median and mode are all the same thing in a normal distribution.

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

This is why context is important. That 1200 is used with the intent and assumption that all the divisions are populated. However, that number ceases to be functional and most certainly detrimental with a low population. The middle is NOT 1200.

You keep saying that it's not, but that's based on... what, exactly? You, someone who quit the game an eternity ago, saying so?
All that's happened is the bell curve has shrunk, and the tails have shrunk (ie there's less/possibly zero people at the far ends of bronze 1 and legend). It hasn't shifted to suddenly make silver the middle. Matchmaking struggles to put together quality matches because it has to grab players across a wider band of ratings more often, that's it.

2 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

So basically, the system has crumbled. Nobody can climb this ladder ever again lmao! (shakes head)....Aaah....so glad I quit lmao.

Serious question here:
You hate the mmo genre, you hate this game, you apparently quit years ago.
Why do you even still come to this website? That's pathetic lol
Can't imagine thinking about something I hate that often.
 

[ArthurDent.9538]

Gold 2 has always been the statistical center of the bell curve for rating. The population has just gotten so small that average players can crack the top 250.