Balance patch 26/09/2023

[soulknight.9620]

Elementalist

• Wildfire: Reduced power coefficient from 0.66 to 0.44 in PvE only.
• Elements of Rage: Reduced the damage bonus from 10% to 7% in PvE only.
• Weaver's Prowess: Reduced the damage bonus from 10% to 5% in PvE only.
• Empowering Auras: Reduced the damage bonus per stack from 3% to 2% in PvE only.
• Deploy Jade Sphere: Reduced power coefficient from 0.4 to 0.35 in PvE only.

 

Ok anet, let me get this straight. Are you really nerfing WEAVER traits cause of WH overperforming?  Like really? From all of the possible solutions from the most obvious (nerfing WH?) to less intuitive, you actually decided to nerf every freaking weaver build out there? WHY? Just WHY? 

WH is a utility heavy weapon that shouldnt deal as much dmg in the first place. Its overtuned to a point that every single dps/support build is FORCED into using it. And you decide to give a slight "slap" on WH and nerf the c out of cata/weaver traits that are used in multitude of builds? And really no tempest nerfs? Tempest does 40k+ dps while camping fire and pushing all of the skills off cd with no rotation at all and having loads of utility possibilities. Yet you nerfed weaver... the spec that has a really bad time trying to keep up with its rotation and being heavily relient on boon support for doing even OW content. 

And you didnt even touch reaper. 43k dps class with self sustainable quickness and x2-x3 hp pool of a weaver?

This Balance patch screams INCONSISTENCY. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by soulknight.9620

[Serephen.3420]

It literally is some of the laziest decision making I've seen this year...

[Sunshine.5014]

Weaver is nerfed because of Snow Crows Speed Run, not because of Warhorn. Any time Snow Crows release an Ele speedrun, Ele will get nerfed.

[soulknight.9620]

48 minutes ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Weaver is nerfed because of Snow Crows Speed Run, not because of Warhorn. Any time Snow Crows release an Ele speedrun, Ele will get nerfed.

All of them are using wh as offhand.

[Adotiln Urthadar.1823]

The Weaver's Prowess nerf is baffling. cWeaver was already a relatively weak build and now it's even worse.

[Nephalem.8921]

3 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Elementalist

• Wildfire: Reduced power coefficient from 0.66 to 0.44 in PvE only.
• Elements of Rage: Reduced the damage bonus from 10% to 7% in PvE only.
• Weaver's Prowess: Reduced the damage bonus from 10% to 5% in PvE only.
• Empowering Auras: Reduced the damage bonus per stack from 3% to 2% in PvE only.
• Deploy Jade Sphere: Reduced power coefficient from 0.4 to 0.35 in PvE only.

 

Ok anet, let me get this straight. Are you really nerfing WEAVER traits cause of WH overperforming?  Like really? From all of the possible solutions from the most obvious (nerfing WH?) to less intuitive, you actually decided to nerf every freaking weaver build out there? WHY? Just WHY? 

WH is a utility heavy weapon that shouldnt deal as much dmg in the first place. Its overtuned to a point that every single dps/support build is FORCED into using it. And you decide to give a slight "slap" on WH and nerf the c out of cata/weaver traits that are used in multitude of builds? And really no tempest nerfs? Tempest does 40k+ dps while camping fire and pushing all of the skills off cd with no rotation at all and having loads of utility possibilities. Yet you nerfed weaver... the spec that has a really bad time trying to keep up with its rotation and being heavily relient on boon support for doing even OW content. 

And you didnt even touch reaper. 43k dps class with self sustainable quickness and x2-x3 hp pool of a weaver?

This Balance patch screams INCONSISTENCY. 

What you are not seeing is that on golem in perfect conditions weaver and cvirtu are doing the same dps therefore great balance.

Don't bother devs with minor details like melee, boons, cc or other weapon options than sw/wh.

[Nephalem.8921]

2 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Weaver is nerfed because of Snow Crows Speed Run, not because of Warhorn. Any time Snow Crows release an Ele speedrun, Ele will get nerfed.

The speedrun was possible because of the wh boon extension on a stationary 9 year old boss with no ranged phases. Of course the devs read that in the notes right? They gained a lot of dps from dropping that 1 support for another dps thanks to boon extension.

Ele is still melee. It is really not that great in recent content. Was playable in ht and ah in the broken state though. Not even top. Lets drop ele playrates below 1% just like mirage. Cvirtu to the win.

Even slb dodged nerfs somehow. How?

[Mattarias.7915]

I'm not even that in tune with the meta and I knew this had to be some sort of kneejerk reaction to some .0001%ers' crazy Speedrun build or something. It's always the highend guilds ruining things for the rest of us, isn't it. 😕

 

As someone who legitimately enjoys weaver, this hurts. But whatever, I'm not changing my build.

[zeyeti.8347]

"We will look more into class playrate than numbers of benchmarks " some anet staff .

Well if it was really the case that nerf wouldn't occur at all , ele playrate is about 2% for each e-specs ... don't bother just leave the ele , let it sink below 0 , show anet nobody care anymore about that class who is only beated by warrior in term off success (who has been nerfed too btw ...)

I've stopped play ele , i don't bother anymore playing this seasonal class who gets 1 month shining per year then nerfed and nerfed and nerfed cause an elite guild who represent , skill wise , 0,001% of the playrate has done some broken super easy raid boss similar to a pinata , ele is my storage now , cause like an idiot i spent bag slots on it ....

[AliamRationem.5172]

When was the last buff to non-scepter condi weaver?  The lack of parity is getting ridiculous at this point.  There is simply no justification for a melee class with a complex rotation and zero utility either for itself or others to be anywhere below the top of the food chain on DPS.  I don't know what the benchmark looks like at this point, but it wouldn't surprise me if condi sword and dagger weaver builds are below even condi scepter tempest at this point.  Can you guys hire some people and get to work please?

[Apraxis.4803]

My heart is broken... 😞 what should I even do? What builds on ele are still worth it? It's my favorite class and I really don't want to abandon it 😢

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

11 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Elementalist

WH is a utility heavy weapon that shouldnt deal as much dmg in the first place. Its overtuned to a point that every single dps/support build is FORCED into using it.

 

I think the proper description should be: Every other weapon combo other than sword+WH is just underperforming in every aspect.

 

Staff: Dead.

Dagger? Even more dead.

Hammer? Also nerfed into oblivion.

Scepter? Well, usable, but still by far underperforming.

 

and for offhand our only options are dagger, focus and warhorn. Dagger is completely dead, Focus is only good for condi-based builts. What's left? Uhm yeah, warhorn.

It's not that other people warned a long time ago nerfing other weapons or making them unusable....

11 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

 

And you didnt even touch reaper. 43k dps class with self sustainable quickness and x2-x3 hp pool of a weaver?

 

Oh, now we come to a great moment of realization by yourself. But I wouldn't only count it on reaper. I would say, every other melee-performing class has either higher life and/or higher armor than elementalist while also providing at least on same if not far better level of other utilities.

Maybe it is right that a glass cannon is stronger than other class because it is considerably harder to play?

 

But nooo, we make a harder to play class, nerf everything to the ground because < 0,001% of people playing can do a lot of damage on an immovable boss which we call "meta-defining".

 

[RaveOnYou.2819]

they are making consistenly bad balance decisions after eod

[Geordy.6453]

Strange... can't see any fix to the sceptre 1 auto attack of fire "No line of sight" for enermous hitboxes....

Priorities...

[soulknight.9620]

The saddest part is when my wife that started to play gw2 a year ago and mostly plays casually saw these balance changes the first thing she said was "well, we gotta thank snowcrows again for ruining the game for the rest of us". And she didnt even knew about these "speedruns". 

Imagine understanding that beating up a braindead golem (or glorified golem like gorseval/cairn) is not the same as being pressured by an actual encounter like fractal CMs (where you actually take damage and must do mechanics between burn phases)?

Imagine that a class that is heavy dependant on the support (boons/heals) to stay alive to deal damage is doing the same damage as a self sufficient class like reaper that requires none of that to stay comepetetive? Imagine a class that deals ranged damage, has access to 2 on demand immunity skills, has built in sustain trait into its meta dps build and doing more dps than abovementioned "dependant" class? 

Imagine the beautifull world where you actually nerf the thing that causes the problem instead of nerfing every build in the game? 

 

What happened to that "balancing phylosophy"? What happened to "classes that have more utility should have a tradeoff"? What happened to "every ability should have a "price""? 

And the worse part of it is - we are stuck with this balance for another 3 months. "Well guys better luck next time - see you during christmas." 

[RazieL.5684]

Remember that one time when anet did something so stupid that people started calling out to fire the idiot, and anet started crying "how come you can ask for such a thing"... well what changed? all i have seen is incompetence...

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

And the worse part of it is - we are stuck with this balance for another 3 months. "Well guys better luck next time - see you during christmas." 

you mean until the next nerf patch...

 

ps: if you see the footage of the fight you can even see them changing food mid fight to squeeze every last bit of dps possible but if you are 2 brain cell anet employee you go "hUrR dUrR wEaVeR sTaCk NERFF!!!" incompetence to the max...

Edited September 27, 2023 by RazieL.5684

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 hours ago, Apraxis.4803 said:

My heart is broken... 😞 what should I even do? What builds on ele are still worth it? It's my favorite class and I really don't want to abandon it 😢

Well, let's not get crazy.  A <10% nerf to the top weaver and cata builds should still place them above 40k benchmark and tempest scepter/warhorn condi builds should be right around there, too.  But as some overperforming builds in other classes didn't get touched at all, this is probably going to see ele as a middle-of-the-pack DPS.  This is frustrating, especially for weaver as it doesn't deserve that given its complete lack of utility.  I'm not justifying it (I think the devs need to put some serious work into class balance right away!), but it's not like ele builds are going to be unplayable just because they got knocked down from mid 40s benchmarks to "just" low 40s.

[soulknight.9620]

6 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

But as some overperforming builds in other classes didn't get touched at all

Its not like ele exist in a vacuum. Its always a class standing against every other class. And now you have the option to play a 40-41k weaver with 0 sustain, limited utility, boon dependant on other classes and 14k hp with jade core 10 or a 41k dps reaper that has 22k hp, ranged options, second healthbar, tons of utility, tons of sustain, selfquickness, etc. Now thats what it call balance, right?  

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Its not like ele exist in a vacuum. Its always a class standing against every other class. And now you have the option to play a 40-41k weaver with 0 sustain, limited utility, boon dependant on other classes and 14k hp with jade core 10 or a 41k dps reaper that has 22k hp, ranged options, second healthbar, tons of utility, tons of sustain, selfquickness, etc. Now thats what it call balance, right?  

Agree 100%.  They need to do a much better job of ensuring that classes feel rewarding to play and that is not possible if all we look at are DPS benchmarks.  Weaver should be an easy one because of how focused it is on only one thing.  No meaningful utility of any kind.  Just straight DPS along with all of the general disadvantages you can possibly heap on a class (i.e. low health/armor, high complexity).  But even within the spec itself weaver is an upside down mess, with the most difficult and limited builds at the bottom.  As I said, the devs need to get to work.  This can't be the only balancing they do through the end of the year.

[Kozumi.5816]

6 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Agree 100%.  They need to do a much better job of ensuring that classes feel rewarding to play and that is not possible if all we look at are DPS benchmarks.  Weaver should be an easy one because of how focused it is on only one thing.  No meaningful utility of any kind.  Just straight DPS along with all of the general disadvantages you can possibly heap on a class (i.e. low health/armor, high complexity).  But even within the spec itself weaver is an upside down mess, with the most difficult and limited builds at the bottom.  As I said, the devs need to get to work.  This can't be the only balancing they do through the end of the year.

I already considered elementalist as a whole not worth playing post-SotO even with sword/warhorn on every spec. I tried out most classes and gave Ele a real good shot, but it just isn't worth it. Lack of ranged, small AOE, melee,  low sustain,. low HP, low armor, low mitigation. Just was not worth it over necro(reaper is insane btw) or herald/renegade(vindicator is ok I guess, I don't like it).

Weaver especially I 100% felt had no place and was a completely irrelevant class outside of speed run memeing. No self boons, trash survival, no ranged damage. It felt so useless and a waste of an elite spec when sword/warhorn Catalyst and scepter Tempest exists on the same class. 

Catalyst is still clunky and jade spheres completely ruin it for most content IMO, just too annoying to give boons on outside of a strike/raid boss(and there's more to the game than just that in PvE...)

Yet, the devs have the audacity to nerf Ele because of speed runs? Really?  That's such disregard and disrespect for their player base that no one should be playing a game with a dev team who shows such disrespect to their player base.  They've been doing this for years now, too!

It's absolutely insane and I don't understand why anyone continues to play this game when the balance team will straight up nerf something for everyone because TEN players find some cute way to abuse it for content that doesn't even get development and doesn't even matter. You don't get more rewards if you kill the boss in 1m instead of 1m 10s, so who cares?

Edited September 27, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[Nephalem.8921]

1 hour ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

I already considered elementalist as a whole not worth playing post-SotO even with sword/warhorn on every spec. I tried out most classes and gave Ele a real good shot, but it just isn't worth it. Lack of ranged, small AOE, melee,  low sustain,. low HP, low armor, low mitigation. Just was not worth it over necro(reaper is insane btw) or herald/renegade(vindicator is ok I guess, I don't like it).

Weaver especially I 100% felt had no place and was a completely irrelevant class outside of speed run memeing. No self boons, trash survival, no ranged damage. It felt so useless and a waste of an elite spec when sword/warhorn Catalyst and scepter Tempest exists on the same class. 

Catalyst is still clunky and jade spheres completely ruin it for most content IMO, just too annoying to give boons on outside of a strike/raid boss(and there's more to the game than just that in PvE...)

Yet, the devs have the audacity to nerf Ele because of speed runs? Really?  That's such disregard and disrespect for their player base that no one should be playing a game with a dev team who shows such disrespect to their player base.  They've been doing this for years now, too!

It's absolutely insane and I don't understand why anyone continues to play this game when the balance team will straight up nerf something for everyone because TEN players find some cute way to abuse it for content that doesn't even get development and doesn't even matter. You don't get more rewards if you kill the boss in 1m instead of 1m 10s, so who cares?

I still dont understand the no boon weaver meme. It is almost funny how bad the self boons are. There aren't even good options in the traits. They removed fury on blast finisher ages ago for no reason too so there is no way to even get fury now without a major dps loss.

I am fine when they don't want a broken dps spec but then they need to give it boons and utility or something. Currently it has neither. It feels so bad to play without boon supports. Why can't weave self give 20sec of alac/quick to yourself? Chill to the bone can give up to 25sec of quickness on a 30sec cd. Also does dmg. Also applies fury. Also applies stability. Also does cc. Why is there no decent might trait for ele? Pyromancer's Puissance is a complete joke compared to stuff like the bladesworn gm or renegade gm which both stack might like crazy.

Spellbreaker has a trait that allows it to give it perma quickness just for using cc which it has more than enough of to make it perma. Meanwhile weaver while currently just being an ok dps has absolutely nothing besides that stab from f/e 3 once every weave self.

Either give it more dps or more utility. Currently it has just so many downsides without any upsides. Well quickcata is still complete garbage to play outside of golem bosses nobody cares about too.

The records done with ele were gorseval, KC and maybe something else i haven't seen. Completely stationary bosses really nobody cares about. 

It also had no real place in fractal speedruns either because it just brings nothing to the group.  Quick cata especially is a thing that is so insanely annoying to play on bosses with phases or even in open world im sure no dev ever played that. It is only fine on encounters like MO which are basically golems. I did soto story and 90% of the time you can not regenerate energy because of the lockout. Swapped to reaper and herald after that and mowed through everything with 1/4 of the buttons required.

[Kozumi.5816]

2 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

I still dont understand the no boon weaver meme. It is almost funny how bad the self boons are. There aren't even good options in the traits. They removed fury on blast finisher ages ago for no reason too so there is no way to even get fury now without a major dps loss.

I am fine when they don't want a broken dps spec but then they need to give it boons and utility or something. Currently it has neither. It feels so bad to play without boon supports. Why can't weave self give 20sec of alac/quick to yourself? Chill to the bone can give up to 25sec of quickness on a 30sec cd. Also does dmg. Also applies fury. Also applies stability. Also does cc. Why is there no decent might trait for ele? Pyromancer's Puissance is a complete joke compared to stuff like the bladesworn gm or renegade gm which both stack might like crazy.

Spellbreaker has a trait that allows it to give it perma quickness just for using cc which it has more than enough of to make it perma. Meanwhile weaver while currently just being an ok dps has absolutely nothing besides that stab from f/e 3 once every weave self.

Either give it more dps or more utility. Currently it has just so many downsides without any upsides. Well quickcata is still complete garbage to play outside of golem bosses nobody cares about too.

The records done with ele were gorseval, KC and maybe something else i haven't seen. Completely stationary bosses really nobody cares about. 

It also had no real place in fractal speedruns either because it just brings nothing to the group.  Quick cata especially is a thing that is so insanely annoying to play on bosses with phases or even in open world im sure no dev ever played that. It is only fine on encounters like MO which are basically golems. I did soto story and 90% of the time you can not regenerate energy because of the lockout. Swapped to reaper and herald after that and mowed through everything with 1/4 of the buttons required.

Ele used to give itself perma boons then they gutted it as step1 of the new design philosophy of "dps shouldn't have self boons". There never was a step2.

Ele is always the first of new "design" then they never go past Ele and it gets stuck playing by it's own vastly worse rules no other class abides by.

Herald and Reaper ftw.

Reaper vs Weaver as a pure DPS makes it VERY clear no dev touches Ele in non-target dummy content. AOE pulls, proj deflects, perma 25 might, almost perma quickness, huge 1200 range BURST damage, perma full LF, tons of pulsing blinds, tons of boon corrupts, insane break.

Meanwhile Weaver "IM DEEPS BRUH"

Edited September 28, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[rotten.9753]

5 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

The records done with ele were gorseval, KC and maybe something else i haven't seen. Completely stationary bosses really nobody cares about. 

And that's where you are wrong. 13 people care about that - 10 that participated in that feat and 3 guys from balance team.

[Nephalem.8921]

12 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Ele used to give itself perma boons then they gutted it as step1 of the new design philosophy of "dps shouldn't have self boons". There never was a step2.

Ele is always the first of new "design" then they never go past Ele and it gets stuck playing by it's own vastly worse rules no other class abides by.

Herald and Reaper ftw.

Reaper vs Weaver as a pure DPS makes it VERY clear no dev touches Ele in non-target dummy content. AOE pulls, proj deflects, perma 25 might, almost perma quickness, huge 1200 range BURST damage, perma full LF, tons of pulsing blinds, tons of boon corrupts, insane break.

Meanwhile Weaver "IM DEEPS BRUH"

Cata has really good self boons for open world but like you pointed out, it is very annoying to play there too. You are constantly trying to recharge somehow your energy and they keep nerfing sphere dmg which was one of its biggest upsides. Big aoes are nice in open world but not when they get reduced to tickle dmg because of wh.

Cata ui is also extremely bad. you have to guess 2/3 of the energy bar because there is no indicator whatsoever that you reached it. why is there an energy lockout in the first place? spheres already have cooldowns. you cannot spam them anyways. all it adds is clunkyness when you can attack something when you are supposed to after spheres expired. Usually open world mobs outsmart you by dying before that happens so you can kill 1 mobgroup with boons and one without alternating.

[Kritical Mass.5047]

As someone that has just started playing an ele and is interested in weaver. Is it even worth the effort at this point?