If a thief doesn't attack in stealth they should be revealed for at LEAST 2 seconds. 6 seconds if they do attack.

[Sidetrack.2563]

1 minute ago, Eddie.9143 said:

...that's how u balance. there's a reason gw2 equipment is diff for spvp. it's their attempt at having balance, anet devs just aren't....smart lol

Ill be honest arguing with you is a waste of time as you are set in your mind that wow is just better, this is worse than the argument for stealth lol- i wont waste my time here anymore

[oujiboardspamname.1932]

6s is way too long. Then no one would play thief. Your heart is in the right place though, stealth needs to be touched upon in a way that doesn't completely destroy its functionality. 

 

I will agree being backstabbed twice within 6 seconds is very immersion breaking. I mean if something were to stab you in the back twice, it'd be back to back, not hit wait for debuff to disappear hit again. Total immersion ruining, atleast as Rev I can rp cringe successfully. 

[Eddie.9143]

13 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

i really enjoy it when gw2 players talk about wow or other mmos when they're completely and utterly clueless about what they're like, or it's based on what the game was 20 years ago

you haven't been slow in stealth for like 10 years, literally the opposite, every build takes the speed boost now
straight up faster in stealth than normal speed lol

so you're saying WoW stealth was so weak for long, they actually buffed it.

need the opposite to happen here.

[Eddie.9143]

16 minutes ago, Sidetrack.2563 said:

Ill be honest arguing with you is a waste of time as you are set in your mind that wow is just better, this is worse than the argument for stealth lol- i wont waste my time here anymore

if WoW wasn't a better pvp game for esports, this, or something else, would take its place.

This pvp is fun, there's no gear grind, but the balance is baaaaad, and the patching is SLOOOWWW

[Burnfall.9573]

2 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

WoW stealth is WAY more balanced than gw2. there's a reason that game has an esports scene, because they balance the game incredibly well to the point games take 10+ mins sometimes, each time has to get multiple CD's, track enemy cd's, and set up burst by CC'ing correctly in a chain.

 

this game comes nowhere NEAR the level of esports WoW

50+ binds in WoW for some classes. focus target binds also. 

Thank You!

[Kervv.6039]

3 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

Sad thieves who are desperate to hold on to their handicap in the reactions and comments.

Sorry about your Trapper Runes bro.

[Burnfall.9573]

2 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

i really enjoy it when gw2 players talk about wow or other mmos when they're completely and utterly clueless about what they're like, or it's based on what the game was 20 years ago

you haven't been slow in stealth for like 10 years, literally the opposite, every build takes the speed boost now
straight up faster in stealth than normal speed lol

"The average person will tell 16 other people about a poor customer service experience according to an American study If your business is providing dissatisfaction customer service or support, the problem is surely costing you customers. That means ten poor customer service experiences will result in a minimum of 160 other people viewing your business in a negative light.

Poor customer service may also be preventing your organization from attracting new customers through word-of-mouth referrals. The same American Express study found that the average person shares a positive customer service story with nine other people."

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Eddie.9143]

1 minute ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

"The average person will tell 16 other people about a poor customer service experience according to an American study If your business is providing dissatisfaction customer service or support, the problem is surely costing you customers. That means ten poor customer service experiences will result in a minimum of 160 other people viewing your business in a negative light.

Poor customer service may also be preventing your organization from attracting new customers through word-of-mouth referrals. The same American Express study found that the average person shares a positive customer service story with nine other people."

 

doesn't take a survey to figure out being pissed off is a stronger emotion than being content/satisfied

[Burnfall.9573]

27 minutes ago, Eddie.9143 said:

doesn't take a survey to figure out being pissed off is a stronger emotion than being content/satisfied

Emotions are very strong indeed. For the past 11 years, Anet continue to disregard The Community Concerns, concerning Thief Profession and Stealth Mechanic causing a negative effect on their experiences.

Empathetic, Empathy, Sympathy is a very strong emotion that is required in Business to Customer relationship yet Anet actions continues to prove to The Community that, our emotions are meaningless to them and that we are nothing more than tools to be taken advantage of, for profit and to fulfill their Totalitarian Agenda.

 

"When a Company treats their customers like objects, they use them for profit purposes only. They will not care about their feelings nor respect their feelings. They care only about themselves and their personal goals."

Edited September 29, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[magickthief.6492]

1 hour ago, Eddie.9143 said:

doesn't take a survey to figure out being pissed off is a stronger emotion than being content/satisfied

but, they can also look at data and determine you are not as good as you think you are, and perhaps stealth isnt the issue...but the one at the keyboard

[Kuma.1503]

Stealth is extremely unhealthy in this game. But if it's changed, we'll need to give thief other tools that will inevitably annoy people. 

People will say that we shouldn't compensate thief because stealth is a "carry mechanic". Nerfing it will reduce power creep and all of that good stuff. 

 

But the thing about "carry mechanics" whether they be stealth, nades, distortion,ect. Is that if you balance a class around them, that mechanic literally ends up carrying the class. Take them away, as we saw with Chronomancer distortion, and that class becomes useless. That is not how you balance a game. That is how you unbalance a game by telling a group of players they don't get to participate. 

 

I agree that stealth is unhealthy (and I'm still salty at DE in particular because they took scrapper's superspeed away and gave it to them), but it's worth noting. Nerf stealth, and we'll need to accept that thief will be given something else that will tick people off. And people WILL complain. As they always do. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

It's sad that people don't realize the most dangerous thieves are the ones that don't stealth.  

Like, blind spam thieves are 100x worse to deal with than stealth spammers--because stealth contributes very little outside a surprise attack.  Since thief attacks from stealth (i.e., backstab) have been nerfed a million times, it really isn't an issue for anyone.

[Kervv.6039]

As an 18 year player of WoW I mained a rogue from day 1.

Stealth went through various tweaks and buffs over the years. 

But you know what I noticed? No matter if stealth is buffed or nerfed people complained about it. For some players it is a really hard mechanic to wrap their heads around. I get it.

But I also noticed players worked around it. For every one person that runs to the forums and 'cries' about it. 20 more have gotten better and have learned to beat the crap out of a rogue or in our case a thief.

I have a HUGE problem fighting Mesmers. I get overwhelmed by them really fast. I'm sure I lose to them more than any other class. But honestly I don't want their main mechanic nerfed into being useless. It's no fun for someone that loves that class to see it torn down. And when I do beat the occasional Mesmer it makes me feel good. And with every win I learn something new. So maybe the next Mes I run into I put up a much better fight. 

I find stealth in this game MUCH more engaging and fun. It's more than just disappearing and staying in stealth for as long as you want. GW2 has given it a much more unique toolkit than WoW. I think the revealed mechanic was a good compromise. It doesn't break stealth but it also means I can't just reapply back to back in combat. And if I do decide to Black Powder + Heartseaker a few times to stay in stealth I am very vulnerable because I've used up my initiative. I'm a sitting duck.

At the end of the day I hope the person on the other side of the screen that just killed  me or I just killed with whatever mechanic we currently struggle with is having fun.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Kervv.6039
Grammer

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

50 minutes ago, Kervv.6039 said:

As an 18 year player of WoW I mained a rogue from day 1.

Stealth went through various tweaks and buffs over the years. 

But you know what I noticed? No matter if stealth is buffed or nerfed people complained about it. For some players it is a really hard mechanic to wrap their heads around. I get it.

But I also noticed players worked around it. For every one person that runs to the forums and 'cries' about it. 20 more have gotten better and have learned to beat the crap out of a rogue or in our case a thief.

I have a HUGE problem fighting Mesmers. I get overwhelmed by them really fast. I'm sure I lose to them more than any other class. But honestly I don't want their main mechanic nerfed into being useless. It's no fun for someone that loves that class to see it torn down. And when I do beat the occasional Mesmer it makes me feel good. And with every win I learn something new. So maybe the next Mes I run into I put up a much better fight. 

I find stealth in this game MUCH more engaging and fun. It's more than just disappearing and staying in stealth for as long as you want. GW2 has given it a much more unique toolkit than WoW. I think the revealed mechanic was a good compromise. It doesn't break stealth but it also means I can't just reapply back to back in combat. And if I do decide to Black Powder + Heartseaker a few times to stay in stealth I am very vulnerable because I've used up my initiative. I'm a sitting duck.

At the end of the day I hope the person on the other side of the screen that just killed  me or I just killed with whatever mechanic we currently struggle with is having fun.

 

It's not "hard" mechanic, it's "waste-of-time" mechanic. There's no fighting while someone hugs stealth and it's just a childish guessing game. Nothing fun or engaging in that sort of combat mechanic. Amount of "counters" is so small that it's not even worth taking, because most of these are quite worthless with how they interact with targets.
Just because you "learn" (lmao) how to tolerate stealth in this game, doesn't magically fix the root problem of said mechanic at all. (Insert an example with 'obese' people here)

 

[Burnfall.9573]

2 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

It's not "hard" mechanic, it's "waste-of-time" mechanic. There's no fighting while someone hugs stealth and it's just a childish guessing game. Nothing fun or engaging in that sort of combat mechanic. Amount of "counters" is so small that it's not even worth taking, because most of these are quite worthless with how they interact with targets.
Just because you "learn" (lmao) how to tolerate stealth in this game, doesn't magically fix the root problem of said mechanic at all. (Insert an example with 'obese' people here)

 

I was just about to give my own insight. I Absolutely Strongly Agree With You 

[Sweetbread.3678]

It's always been a terribly designed mechanic; honestly, it's probably the worst implementation of stealth in a pvp game I've ever seen. Just because people have learned to "deal" with it (because they've had literally no other choice due to literally the entire burden of skill for the mechanic falling on the defending party), doesn't mean it shouldn't be reworked into something that's not hilariously, obviously stupid.

Just a thought, but maybe designing classes explicitly to be as cheesy and frustating as humanly possible to fight, isn't a great idea for a pvp game. But hey, I guess we've gotta have that invisible burst/run away like a ninny class archetype though; we wouldn't want to risk alienating the ninja obsessed weeb, gigantic coward, and just straight-up kitten/troll demographics now. Nah, better to cater to the lowest-common-denominator than have a game where 90% of the pvp population didn't abandon the mode because it feels like non-stop dogkitten to play.

[Sahne.6950]

As someone that switched mains to thief, i have to say:

Stealth is toxic af... something could and should be done.

but.....

Your proposed change is NOT the answer to that.   A change like that, without any compensation, will kill thief.   nothing more... nothing less.

 

in all honesty:

Let poor thief alone....  the class feels very good right now....    not broken good... but good good.        There is other stuff to be mad about kind of.

 

If you are really struggling with thief so much, just pick soulbeast, engie or Herald.  Those eat Thiefs for breakfast.

And that brings us to a more suitable solution......      why are those 3 builds good agains thief?    REVEAL.   They all have a revealskill that are conveniently placed in their kit.

 

if anything,      more builds need conveniently placed reveal skills.

Its about creating counterplay...innit?   you dont want to just shove Thief into the dumpster, because you dont like it....   or do you?

Edited September 29, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Psycoprophet.8107]

15 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

WoW stealth is WAY more balanced than gw2. there's a reason that game has an esports scene, because they balance the game incredibly well to the point games take 10+ mins sometimes, each time has to get multiple CD's, track enemy cd's, and set up burst by CC'ing correctly in a chain.

 

this game comes nowhere NEAR the level of esports WoW

50+ binds in WoW for some classes. focus target binds also. 

This ^ thief stealth should be reworked to be infinite duration on one button press and usable outa combat only, but also be given a skill that's usable in combat to stealth up, also with infinite duration to freely be able to disengage as they wish if burst fails,. Than a 3rd stealth skill with infinite stealth duration if standing still. Also thief should be given long duration daze and stuns of which can be used on their opponents from stealth to lock them down to help assure burst lands. As a thief player I agree 100% lol. It's op having to use ur initiative to stack long durations of stealth handicapping ALL ur weapons causing u to choose between having long duration stealth or ini for weapon attacks, that's way more broken op than just pressing a button for infinite stealth outa combat and still having a usable stealth skill to do so in combat, way more......lmao wtf. I really wonder somtimes why so many gw2 pvp players are so insanely delusional and bias. I would love thief reworked to work like wows rogue, except obviously with gw2 combat and graphics style as wows are gbage imo.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Endo.1652]

Ranger icon complaining about theives just seems ironic to me.

[Zekent.3652]

Burst out of stealth is bad but this suggestion is terrible.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

10 hours ago, Kervv.6039 said:

As an 18 year player of WoW I mained a rogue from day 1.

Stealth went through various tweaks and buffs over the years. 

But you know what I noticed? No matter if stealth is buffed or nerfed people complained about it. For some players it is a really hard mechanic to wrap their heads around. I get it.

But I also noticed players worked around it. For every one person that runs to the forums and 'cries' about it. 20 more have gotten better and have learned to beat the crap out of a rogue or in our case a thief.

I have a HUGE problem fighting Mesmers. I get overwhelmed by them really fast. I'm sure I lose to them more than any other class. But honestly I don't want their main mechanic nerfed into being useless. It's no fun for someone that loves that class to see it torn down. And when I do beat the occasional Mesmer it makes me feel good. And with every win I learn something new. So maybe the next Mes I run into I put up a much better fight. 

I find stealth in this game MUCH more engaging and fun. It's more than just disappearing and staying in stealth for as long as you want. GW2 has given it a much more unique toolkit than WoW. I think the revealed mechanic was a good compromise. It doesn't break stealth but it also means I can't just reapply back to back in combat. And if I do decide to Black Powder + Heartseaker a few times to stay in stealth I am very vulnerable because I've used up my initiative. I'm a sitting duck.

At the end of the day I hope the person on the other side of the screen that just killed  me or I just killed with whatever mechanic we currently struggle with is having fun.

 

Regarding the mesmer bit, you must be the exception.

Thieves were the main qqers when PU gave good stealth uptime and thieves were the main qqers when mirage had still not as much dodge uptime as dd but still good uptime.

Regarding stealth itself this isn't the first thread and will not be the last, anerf will not do anything.

[Curennos.9307]

What more do people want? Shadow Arts has been almost completely redesigned at this point (and for the better, IMO). No more heal the longer you stack stealth or ini regen in stealth, more traits that proc on entering and leaving stealth. Less stealth duration overall, the extra duration in shadow arts is gone.

There are QoL stuff, certainly, like damage number popup when hitting a stealthed thief - but what else? An extra utility slot just for a specialized reveal? If someone wants a hard counter available, they should have to give something up for it. The classes that currently have it don't really have to, either, so pick your poison.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Curennos.9307

[Flowki.7194]

21 hours ago, Sidetrack.2563 said:

Ill be honest arguing with you is a waste of time as you are set in your mind that wow is just better, this is worse than the argument for stealth lol- i wont waste my time here anymore

But in truth wow did a FAR better job at balancing stealth. Its a joke in this game that the only real counter to thiefs is pot shot AOE. Genuinely, thats a joke.