Consequences from the WvW Rush event?

[Gorani.7205]

Perhaps it is time to ask the question of "What consequences can/should/must ANet draw from how the WvW Rush event for any changes to WvW for the future?" (yes, I know, very hypothetical, but some of us still have dreams...)
- The event week drew a lot of players to the WvW maps, both WvW Veterans and "the PvE crowd", so the increase in population was obvious
- In the late afternoon and evening hours, queues on all maps of 20 in borderlands and 50 on EBG were what could be observed (EU server, AG in my case)
- unlike the World boss rush or the Fractal Rush, where new instances are created when a map gets full, WvW maps have a hard limit, kind of locking people out (for some time)
- EotM is not an adequate playground to wait in the queue (e.g. no dollies to kill there; do towers and keeps count?) for this event
- PvE players are totally reliant on a good commander and directions from the veterans, because WvW itself has no mechanics to "teach them how to play". This resulted in those players no carrying supply, getting obliterated while mindlessly and blindly stacking on a non-communicating commander icon and getting killed by siege that veterans just evade or notice.
- Large groups of "new" players are very surprised of "players actually fighting back", because they kind of treat WvW like Drizzlewood. Again, there is no teaching mechanic and sometimes no incentive to learn how WvW.
- The event buff really is obvious and give you some true, noticeable progression you can see in PvE all the time. Perhaps it would be a good move to increase the baseline of WxP gain or (if dollys could fly) add an Account Augmentation WvW where you can invest your unspent WcW ability points for something like WxP bonus (or Karma, or bonus pip chance etc.)
- The reward structure of the Rush meta is heavily geared toward giving PvE players what they need to craft a legendary weapon (do the GoB-track, get Memories as a reward for each single task in the meta); there is little there to keep them in WvW once the Rush is over (e.g. a focus on Skirmish tickets as a way to get ascended/legendary armour).
- current WvW skill balance does not leave a good impression on new players, once they leave the zerg and try some roaming, because they will very likely run into veteran players on Willbenders or Harbingers (just to name two out of bounds professions right now, add you personal preference as well)

What are your impressions and annotations to the WvW Rush week? (and perhaps what ANet might learn from that)

[RisingDawn.5796]

I don't think the servers could handle the influx of players, sadly enough.

[XenesisII.1540]

Logged on last night around the start of prime time 8pm and only ebg had a 30 queue, other maps had none and didn't have much going on with a couple private groups. 🤷‍♂️

Next week it'll be back to normal, highly doubt many will stick around after, as usual, they were only ever there to poach the rewards.

3 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

- PvE players are totally reliant on a good commander and directions from the veterans, because WvW itself has no mechanics to "teach them how to play". This resulted in those players no carrying supply, getting obliterated while mindlessly and blindly stacking on a non-communicating commander icon and getting killed by siege that veterans just evade or notice.

Is there a lot of hand holding in pve? or do players need to figure out stuff? Don't know why people make this big deal about learning stuff in wvw over pve. Also there's an Instructor[Tutorials] as soon as you port into a map, like does no one talk to them? They show the map and explain the objectives. Do they need to QOL the Instructor with a big fat blinking sign that says [SPEAK TO ME FIRST TO LEARN ABOUT WVW YOU NEWB]

3 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

- Large groups of "new" players are very surprised of "players actually fighting back", because they kind of treat WvW like Drizzlewood. Again, there is no teaching mechanic and sometimes no incentive to learn how WvW.

Wvw is a sandbox mode, you learn as you experience it.

3 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

- The reward structure of the Rush meta is heavily geared toward giving PvE players what they need to craft a legendary weapon (do the GoB-track, get Memories as a reward for each single task in the meta); there is little there to keep them in WvW once the Rush is over (e.g. a focus on Skirmish tickets as a way to get ascended/legendary armour).

Think that was the point, to get pve players to try out wvw. Legendary armor has been the major lure to keep those players in wvw the past 5 years, now it'll be up to the game play to keep them playing since they're getting their own ow legendary set. So... good luck with that boon balla wvw.

3 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

- current WvW skill balance does not leave a good impression on new players, once they leave the zerg and try some roaming, because they will very likely run into veteran players on Willbenders or Harbingers (just to name two out of bounds professions right now, add you personal preference as well)

Agree... but it is what it is... people asked for this combat, they wanted this balance, now wvw gets what it kitten deserves.

[Gorani.7205]

23 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

1) Is there a lot of hand holding in pve? or do players need to figure out stuff? Don't know why people make this big deal about learning stuff in wvw over pve. Also there's an Instructor[Tutorials] as soon as you port into a map, like does no one talk to them? They show the map and explain the objectives. Do they need to QOL the Instructor with a big fat blinking sign that says [SPEAK TO ME FIRST TO LEARN ABOUT WVW YOU NEWB]

2) Think that was the point, to get pve players to try out wvw. Legendary armor has been the major lure to keep those players in wvw the past 5 years, now it'll be up to the game play to keep them playing since they're getting their own ow legendary set. So... good luck with that boon balla wvw.

3) Agree... but it is what it is... people asked for this combat, they wanted this balance, now wvw gets what it kitten deserves.

1) Perhaps that is needed, as silly at it sounds. The observations of the last few days have really made me think of how on earth humanity has a survived as a species with an awareness  of a loaf of bread, not unlike watching some FailArmy videos on YT.
2) But is the gameplay we have now really a lure? I think we agree that it is not.
3) Not sure all "people" wanted this balance, but when we look at the main discussion forum: threads like "is the game too easy" and "too much power creep" gets noticed by the PvE crowd too.

I just really wish ANet could draw some valid conclusions form this week to notice weak points and small steps for chances of improvement for WvW.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

7 hours ago, Gorani.7205 said:

- In the late afternoon and evening hours, queues on all maps of 20 in borderlands and 50 on EBG were what could be observed (EU server, AG in my case)

How AG have so much queues and you are in last tier 5? I play on Desolation (EU) and we have had queues just to 2 maps in prime time (except for very brief time on reset evening). Often outnumbered on 1-2 maps. Outside the busiest 1-2 hours, generally no queues. Desolation is in tier1. So does that mean tier5 has more population than tier1 (Crazy!).

Ayna
 

[Zizou.2358]

Same in RoS/Vabbi. 50 perma q and other maps empty or hardly anything happening.

[Jitters.9401]

Ahhh.

So this is why, when I went into wvw and was invited to a small group the WvW levels were:

Level 9    level 9    Level 28.  They seemed to be enjoying it so hopefully they stay. 

[Venport.3925]

I'm fine with qs and noobs running around having no idea what they should be doing/are doing because it means that at least a fraction of them might consider staying which is great for the long term health of wvw as a gamemode, cornerstone or not. hopefully when wsr is out servers will have enough room to accommodate the influx from events better though

[Danikat.8537]

It can also get intermittent WvW players like me back into it. I keep dropping WvW because I feel like if I can't get far through the skirmish rewards it's not really worth it (I've never been able to finish it, but I sometimes get up to Platinum or Mithril) and it's very rare that I know on a Friday I'll have enough time to do that. This week I didn't get a chance to start until Saturday but decided to do it anyway, mainly because of the XP buff which helped with getting towards level 500 for legendary armour. Surprisingly I was able to complete the rush event meta-reward in about 4 hours but then I kept going for levels (I'm now up to about 453).

I'm not saying I'm now going to stick around indefinitely, sooner or later I'll get bored or distracted from it (also I won't have time to play at all today or tomorrow), but it's another thing that's drawn me back for a while.

[Danikat.8537]

14 hours ago, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

How AG have so much queues and you are in last tier 5? I play on Desolation (EU) and we have had queues just to 2 maps in prime time (except for very brief time on reset evening). Often outnumbered on 1-2 maps. Outside the busiest 1-2 hours, generally no queues. Desolation is in tier1. So does that mean tier5 has more population than tier1 (Crazy!).

Ayna
 

I was thinking Desolation must be less popular than when I last played. I missed reset night but the first time after that I saw bigger queues than usual was yesterday evening. Before then it was the usual queue of about 20-40 on EB and 10-30 on one Borderlands and nothing on the other two.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I was thinking Desolation must be less popular than when I last played. I missed reset night but the first time after that I saw bigger queues than usual was yesterday evening. Before then it was the usual queue of about 20-40 on EB and 10-30 on one Borderlands and nothing on the other two.

Desolation is misplaced in tier 1, luckily dropping down. Outnumbered "buff" most of the time. Blue (Fissure of Woe + Kodash) seems to have plenty of players at almost any hour.

In fact it begs the question: Why was FoW given a link, but e.g. FSP wasn't? Ruins of Surmia + Gunnar's Hold is probably another overpopulated server pair.

Ayna

 

[SpaceMarine.1836]

It's beyond embarrassing. Why would you make an event if you very well know you don't have the server infrastructure to handle even non-event player load? There's so much content fighting for people's attention these days it's just unacceptable to launch a game and spend 15+ minutes in a "lobby".

[XenesisII.1540]

Poor eotm, not being used for what it was created for, cause people only care about rewards. 🤷‍♂️

[brakheart.1407]

On 10/1/2023 at 1:53 PM, Gorani.7205 said:

Perhaps it is time to ask the question of "What consequences can/should/must ANet draw from how the WvW Rush event for any changes to WvW for the future?" (yes, I know, very hypothetical, but some of us still have dreams...)
- The event week drew a lot of players to the WvW maps, both WvW Veterans and "the PvE crowd", so the increase in population was obvious
- In the late afternoon and evening hours, queues on all maps of 20 in borderlands and 50 on EBG were what could be observed (EU server, AG in my case)
- unlike the World boss rush or the Fractal Rush, where new instances are created when a map gets full, WvW maps have a hard limit, kind of locking people out (for some time)
- EotM is not an adequate playground to wait in the queue (e.g. no dollies to kill there; do towers and keeps count?) for this event
- PvE players are totally reliant on a good commander and directions from the veterans, because WvW itself has no mechanics to "teach them how to play". This resulted in those players no carrying supply, getting obliterated while mindlessly and blindly stacking on a non-communicating commander icon and getting killed by siege that veterans just evade or notice.
- Large groups of "new" players are very surprised of "players actually fighting back", because they kind of treat WvW like Drizzlewood. Again, there is no teaching mechanic and sometimes no incentive to learn how WvW.
- The event buff really is obvious and give you some true, noticeable progression you can see in PvE all the time. Perhaps it would be a good move to increase the baseline of WxP gain or (if dollys could fly) add an Account Augmentation WvW where you can invest your unspent WcW ability points for something like WxP bonus (or Karma, or bonus pip chance etc.)
- The reward structure of the Rush meta is heavily geared toward giving PvE players what they need to craft a legendary weapon (do the GoB-track, get Memories as a reward for each single task in the meta); there is little there to keep them in WvW once the Rush is over (e.g. a focus on Skirmish tickets as a way to get ascended/legendary armour).
- current WvW skill balance does not leave a good impression on new players, once they leave the zerg and try some roaming, because they will very likely run into veteran players on Willbenders or Harbingers (just to name two out of bounds professions right now, add you personal preference as well)

What are your impressions and annotations to the WvW Rush week? (and perhaps what ANet might learn from that)

Just remove this event entirely. US WvW players DON'T WANT 40+ PLAYER QUEUES ON PRIME TIME.

[Hesione.9412]

15 minutes ago, brakheart.1407 said:

Just remove this event entirely. US WvW players DON'T WANT 40+ PLAYER QUEUES ON PRIME TIME.

You have 160 PvE players all wanting to play WvW at the same time?

[GriffInTheSky.3725]

I always participate in different WvW events, but this WvW Rush has the best rewards for me 🙂 Previously, it was always extra world experience and reward track progress. Then, we got some weapon skins. But now, we got all of that plus skirmish tickets. Those tickets are my pain point, because I participate in WvW casually and earn very little tickets per week. I had to play many more months to craft my second Conflux...

But this event and it's rewards inspired me greatly, so I've already completed two non-repeatable Diamond chests (one before Friday, and other yesterday). I've never earned skirmish reward chests higher than Silver before! 😀

Of course, I would like to see more maps introduced, or population limits increased - to avoid long queues everywhere in prime time (queues can be problem not only during event, by the way).

Now I wait for the next WvW event already, hoping for even more rewards! Even if I no longer need anything from this game mode, during these days I 've participated in capture of more towers and keeps than I've captured during years - such a change of pace from turning camps and claiming land 😆 Now I just want to gain more WvW levels, and to participate in successful capture of Stonemist Castle someday!

 

[KingHeaven.4590]

18 hours ago, SpaceMarine.1836 said:

It's beyond embarrassing. Why would you make an event if you very well know you don't have the server infrastructure to handle even non-event player load? There's so much content fighting for people's attention these days it's just unacceptable to launch a game and spend 15+ minutes in a "lobby".

I don't know why you guys think a queue is a bad thing.  I'm always glad when I see a queue because it means the WvW maps are full and when I get in there's going to be a lot going on which is more fun.  Sure there's a wait, but who cares?  You just queue up and go do something else while you wait.  It's not like you're unable to move while in the queue.  You could go to silverwastes, go craft, do PvE, chat, whatever.  There's plenty to do while you wait in the queue.  It's rare all 4 maps are full.  Usually there is a queue for EBG, but then you just go to another map while you wait.

[Gorani.7205]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:06 PM, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

How AG have so much queues and you are in last tier 5?  .... . So does that mean tier5 has more population than tier1 (Crazy!).
 

AG has a lot of PvE players ... a lot compared to what they can muster for everyday WvW. Right now (4 pm CET, on a German national holiday with two German servers involved in the matchup), we are down to two small queues on borderlands. Waiting to get into a "true" WvW map has been easier since Sunday, even during peak hours. I am convinced most of the PvE crowd have finished the Rush and turned their back on WvW again.
From the players I have talked to, that identified themselves as the "I am here for GoB" variety, nobody said that he got hooked on WvW. Most said that they followed a tag, enjoyed their success while it lasted, didn't know what was going on really and they left when they got wiped. So pretty much "world boss rush" behavior and hardly anyone bothered to roam and followed a small group.

[Dawdler.8521]

9 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

AG has a lot of PvE players ... a lot compared to what they can muster for everyday WvW. Right now (4 pm CET, on a German national holiday with two German servers involved in the matchup), we are down to two small queues on borderlands. 

You have queues? On two maps?! At this hour??!?!!?

AG isnt even full and has a link, lol.

[Gorani.7205]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

You have queues? On two maps?! At this hour??!?!!?

AG isnt even full and has a link, lol.

Like I said, do not fall into the trap thinking that AG has lots of regular numbers in WvW. We are linked with Abbandon's Mouth and Germans have a public holiday. Normally we have EB queues on reset night and perhaps during evenings (in the single digit numbers). Interpreting numbers during the Rush event to "AG (+ Abbadon) has a big player base doing WvW is completely off point.
Again, another lesson that should be learned from the Rush event. Don't create expectation on a single mentioning of queues on a server compared to weeks and months of observing match-up situations and link ups.

[SpaceMarine.1836]

5 hours ago, DivineAlphaLight.2738 said:

I don't know why you guys think a queue is a bad thing.  I'm always glad when I see a queue because it means the WvW maps are full and when I get in there's going to be a lot going on which is more fun.  Sure there's a wait, but who cares?  You just queue up and go do something else while you wait.  It's not like you're unable to move while in the queue.  You could go to silverwastes, go craft, do PvE, chat, whatever.  There's plenty to do while you wait in the queue.  It's rare all 4 maps are full.  Usually there is a queue for EBG, but then you just go to another map while you wait.

Thinking that having to wait before you can jump into the game you want to play is a good thing is one of the most severe cases of Stockholm syndrome I've ever seen.

[Swoo.5079]

During WvW rush Deso had indeed queues in at least 3 of the 4 maps between 19-21 UK time.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

19 hours ago, brakheart.1407 said:

Just remove this event entirely. US WvW players DON'T WANT 40+ PLAYER QUEUES ON PRIME TIME.

Will have to disagree, we have seen people ask for events and are looking for more. Will it bring more players, yes. But look at the other way if it brings enough then links would no longer be needed. If you find your server is maxing all their queues you might already be on an over stacked server. Part of the point of the queues is to show people they are and if they remain so that's more on the players on that server for not moving to lower population servers. 

But again, no we need more events for those that play already let alone for other players to try it. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

19 hours ago, GriffInTheSky.3725 said:

I always participate in different WvW events, but this WvW Rush has the best rewards for me 🙂 Previously, it was always extra world experience and reward track progress. Then, we got some weapon skins. But now, we got all of that plus skirmish tickets. Those tickets are my pain point, because I participate in WvW casually and earn very little tickets per week. I had to play many more months to craft my second Conflux...

But this event and it's rewards inspired me greatly, so I've already completed two non-repeatable Diamond chests (one before Friday, and other yesterday). I've never earned skirmish reward chests higher than Silver before! 😀

Of course, I would like to see more maps introduced, or population limits increased - to avoid long queues everywhere in prime time (queues can be problem not only during event, by the way).

Now I wait for the next WvW event already, hoping for even more rewards! Even if I no longer need anything from this game mode, during these days I 've participated in capture of more towers and keeps than I've captured during years - such a change of pace from turning camps and claiming land 😆 Now I just want to gain more WvW levels, and to participate in successful capture of Stonemist Castle someday!

 

Glad you enjoyed, come visit the Mist War anytime, there is always things to do!

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 10/2/2023 at 2:32 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

Poor eotm, not being used for what it was created for, cause people only care about rewards. 🤷‍♂️

If you do, just don't my mistake and let your auto-reflexes double dodge you right off those rope bridges! Weeeeeeeeee!!! scroll scroll scroll where is that WP on the minimap, splat! 😜