Please don't take my Vampirism Bonus away!

[Kal Durak.2830]

I don't see this continued here: 

Hello, Anet, I would like this effect back too. thanks. 

[Fueki.4753]

I'd love to see this rune effect returned, too, among every other rune effect you took away from us.

As it is right now, the Relic system is a massive failure and an excessive detriment to how a lot of players want to enjoy the game.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Benchmark Bros, who will tell you that your enjoyment of the game doesn't matter because the dps relics exists, will soon enter this thread. 

Be prepared. 

[Ashen.2907]

The other thread about this exact same subject was also created by someone with "Areoh" in their account name. Be careful, if you are alt account posting it is a bannable offense.

[Sansar.1302]

15 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Benchmark Bros, who will tell you that your enjoyment of the game doesn't matter because the dps relics exists, will soon enter this thread. 

Be prepared. 

Sadly yes , too many rune effecs missing to make the game fun for me but hey the golem dps have become higer so all is fine rigth ?

The relic system is good , it is the lacking effecs that is the issue for me.

[Ezrael.6859]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I'd love to see this rune effect returned, too, among every other rune effect you took away from us.

As it is right now, the Relic system is a massive failure and an excessive detriment to how a lot of players want to enjoy the game.

I wouldn’t say it’s a massive failure, it’s created far more options than before as I can now have the exact stats I want while experimenting with all sorts of different builds based around different Relics.

it would however be even better if a lot of the missing old rune effects were added back however.

[Fueki.4753]

44 minutes ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

I wouldn’t say it’s a massive failure

How can a system, that reduced the fun for a decent amount of players, be anything else?

Games are supposed to be fun. And the way that relics currently are, they aren't providing that for as many players as runes did previously. It's a literal downgrade in how quite some players experience the game.

44 minutes ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

it’s created far more options than before as I can now have the exact stats I want while experimenting with all sorts of different builds based around different Relics.

Then the system may be fine for you, but it is not fine for all players.

Not everyone's fun starts with calculating attributes and ends with min-maxing. Not everyone crunches numbers.

44 minutes ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

it would however be even better if a lot of the missing old rune effects were added back however.

In my opinion, Arenanet shouldn't have released the system without the missing effects in the first place.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Zebulous.2934]

I am still convinced that relics have not given us more options. Why would you try to increase buld diversity by making a bunch of class specific relics?  Oh, other classes can equip them, but do they have a use for another classes' relic?   Relic of the necromancer for instance affects fear.  Necromancers have several ways to inflict fear.  If you happen to be a norn your racial skill causes fear. 3 other classes have just one skill that causes fear.  I don't think that we are going to see a fear warrior build that makes use of this relic. 

On the other side we have relic of the mirage.  Inflict two stacks of torment whenever you evade an attack.  It could be argued that this relic is rather useless to a mirage, since they have several sources of torment.  However, every class can evade.  I am just not sure two stacks of torment per evade would be helpful to anyone else, maybe a revenant would find use for it? 

The relics we have don't seem to encourage build diversity to me. They seem rather niche and restricted in practice if not by design. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Zebulous.2934

[Gwynnion.7364]

At this point, I doubt they'll restore any of the other rune effects as relics because a) they want to sell expansion relics instead, b) they seem content with the generic DPS, healing, and support relics they put out, limited as they are, c) a lot of old 6th rune effects like +10% health and 10% healing on kill would probably be seen as "overkill" under current power creep, and d) they don't seem to care about largely aesthetic effects like summoned creatures or don't know how to balance them or anything else.

[Kal Durak.2830]

20 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Benchmark Bros, who will tell you that your enjoyment of the game doesn't matter because the dps relics exists, will soon enter this thread. 

Be prepared. 

So true haha

[ShadowKatt.6740]

16 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I am still convinced that relics have not given us more options. Why would you try to increase buld diversity by making a bunch of class specific relics?  Oh, other classes can equip them, but do they have a use for another classes' relic?   Relic of the necromancer for instance affects fear.  Necromancers have several ways to inflict fear.  If you happen to be a norn your racial skill causes fear. 3 other classes have just one skill that causes fear.  I don't think that we are going to see a fear warrior build that makes use of this relic. 

On the other side we have relic of the mirage.  Inflict two stacks of torment whenever you evade an attack.  It could be argued that this relic is rather useless to a mirage, since they have several sources of torment.  However, every class can evade.  I am just not sure two stacks of torment per evade would be helpful to anyone else, maybe a revenant would find use for it? 

The relics we have don't seem to encourage build diversity to me. They seem rather niche and restricted in practice if not by design. 

It's funny. I made a thread (Here, actually) where I argued that I'd like to see a relic introduced that would make mesmer clones permanant, or at least so they didn't shatter on enemy death. And the whole thread is people telling me that there's no room in the game for profession-specific relics. That ALL relics are universally applicable and that my ideas are bad. So it's funny to hear someone else saying the exact opposite of them.

That aside, to the more general theme of the thread, I'm actually thankful for the relic system. I actually don't really care. I'm sure there's some builds that really use the relics to their full potential but honestly I have the same relic on every character: The Relic of Mercy. +20% rez speed and +30% health on rez (for a total of 80% HP when you get up). I am a resurrecting GOD.

[Sansar.1302]

8 hours ago, Gwynnion.7364 said:

At this point, I doubt they'll restore any of the other rune effects as relics because a) they want to sell expansion relics instead, b) they seem content with the generic DPS, healing, and support relics they put out, limited as they are, c) a lot of old 6th rune effects like +10% health and 10% healing on kill would probably be seen as "overkill" under current power creep, and d) they don't seem to care about largely aesthetic effects like summoned creatures or don't know how to balance them or anything else.

Then i wont play any more, alredy almost a month without logging inn now.

Been playing since start but the removal of most rune effects killed all fun i had with the game .

Game instant went from fun to unfun

Rune 6th bonus where a core part of my builds and more defining than any weapon, skill or elite spec

 

[TheNurgle.4825]

19 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

How can a system, that reduced the fun for a decent amount of players, be anything else?

As developer you can track a lot of things and let's be real some runes were never used since their sixth bonus was useless. Also ppl took runes for that sixth bonus and not stats so splitting sixth bonus from runes is good decision.

19 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Then the system may be fine for you, but it is not fine for all players.

You want something impossible. You will never have everyone "happy". I suppose that some removed bonuses from runes will be added as new relics either as same effect or slightly different.

20 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

In my opinion, Arenanet shouldn't have released the system without the missing effects in the first place.

  Based on numbers Anet has they can see what runes are used. That was one of inputs for their decisions.

[Ezrael.6859]

21 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

How can a system, that reduced the fun for a decent amount of players, be anything else?

Games are supposed to be fun. And the way that relics currently are, they aren't providing that for as many players as runes did previously. It's a literal downgrade in how quite some players experience the game.

Then the system may be fine for you, but it is not fine for all players.

Not everyone's fun starts with calculating attributes and ends with min-maxing. Not everyone crunches numbers.

In my opinion, Arenanet shouldn't have released the system without the missing effects in the first place.

It’s still fun, fun is subjective, you belong to a vocal minority.

If they added all the 6th rune effects back as Relics then all the previous options would be available but with far more flexibility than before.

 

That’s what people should advocate for, not daftly asking for the entire system to be reverted. That’s just a moronic request.

[Gravitron.7982]

On 10/5/2023 at 8:21 PM, Kal Durak.2830 said:

I don't see this continued here: 

Hello, Anet, I would like this effect back too. thanks. 

Wow they took it away? Why would they do that? 😕

[Fueki.4753]

10 hours ago, Gwynnion.7364 said:

At this point, I doubt they'll restore any of the other rune effects as relics because a) they want to sell expansion relics instead, b) they seem content with the generic DPS, healing, and support relics they put out, limited as they are, c) a lot of old 6th rune effects like +10% health and 10% healing on kill would probably be seen as "overkill" under current power creep, and d) they don't seem to care about largely aesthetic effects like summoned creatures or don't know how to balance them or anything else.

Then, at this point, they'll also have to be content which a continuously dwindling player base.

There were people who needed the extra Health (like from Rune of the Wurm) to comfortably play low health professions. These people won't play those professions anymore. Maybe they won't even play the game anymore, because they only enjoyed those professions.

There are people to whom the rune effects (like all the summoning runes) gave flavour to their characters, which is now gone. This disappointment will have lead some people to leave the game.

If Arenanet had just put all the effects on Relics, they could have prevented people from leaving.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Then, at this point, they'll also have to be content which a continuously dwindling player base.

There were people who needed the extra Health (like from Rune of the Wurm) to comfortably play low health professions. These people won't play those professions anymore. Maybe they won't even play the game anymore, because they only enjoyed those professions.

Rune of the Wurm didn't lose any Vitality. The bonus was increased Ferocity based on Vitality, now it's a flat +125 Ferocity.

If people leave because of the Rune/Relic changes there wasn't really anything keeping them playing GW2 to begin with. Then again, the entire system isn't even out yet, since there supposed to be Legendary Relics, so, probably when that comes they'll add more Relics.

[Assolador.3598]

7 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

It's funny. I made a thread (Here, actually) where I argued that I'd like to see a relic introduced that would make mesmer clones permanant, or at least so they didn't shatter on enemy death. And the whole thread is people telling me that there's no room in the game for profession-specific relics. That ALL relics are universally applicable and that my ideas are bad. So it's funny to hear someone else saying the exact opposite of them.

That aside, to the more general theme of the thread, I'm actually thankful for the relic system. I actually don't really care. I'm sure there's some builds that really use the relics to their full potential but honestly I have the same relic on every character: The Relic of Mercy. +20% rez speed and +30% health on rez (for a total of 80% HP when you get up). I am a resurrecting GOD.

if we get ''profession relic'' we would need it to be used by all classes, atleast having a functionality, but this idea is best applied within a trait 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

2 minutes ago, Assolador.3598 said:

if we get ''profession relic'' we would need it to be used by all classes, atleast having a functionality, but this idea is best applied within a trait 

That's what they said too. And I agreed. But as I said there I think the odds of a new relic are better that a new trait.

[Zebulous.2934]

1 hour ago, Assolador.3598 said:

if we get ''profession relic'' we would need it to be used by all classes, atleast having a functionality, but this idea is best applied within a trait 

lol then what do you call the current relic of the necromancer?  I pointed out that only three other classes are able to cause fear, and they each only have a single skill that does.  I would argue that this is just as limited as the proposed relic that makes clones last after their target dies.  

I actually don't mind using relics as an additional trait, but they need to be better than what we currently have.  
I would prefer that the devs pick aspects that at least two classes share however.  wells, shouts, traps, mantras, signets, stances, elixers, meditation, glyphs.
A necromancer relic that boosted wells or signets would have had noticeable benefits for other classes, but they picked the fear condition?!  That is a class exclusive relic and has nothing to do with any other class.  

Edited October 7, 2023 by Zebulous.2934

[Assolador.3598]

54 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

lol then what do you call the current relic of the necromancer?  I pointed out that only three other classes are able to cause fear, and they each only have a single skill that does.  I would argue that this is just as limited as the proposed relic that makes clones last after their target dies.  

I actually don't mind using relics as an additional trait, but they need to be better than what we currently have.  
I would prefer that the devs pick aspects that at least two classes share however.  wells, shouts, traps, mantras, signets, stances, elixers, meditation, glyphs.
A necromancer relic that boosted wells or signets would have had noticeable benefits for other classes, but they picked the fear condition?!  That is a class exclusive relic and has nothing to do with any other class.  

it can be used by classes with fear

[Zebulous.2934]

28 minutes ago, Assolador.3598 said:

it can be used by classes with fear

Which is a single warrior utility skill, Or an underwater soulbeast (shark), or a specter using dawn's repose. There is the Norn wolf transformation I suppose.

That is quite a long list.

[Vayne.8563]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:25 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

How can a system, that reduced the fun for a decent amount of players, be anything else?

Games are supposed to be fun. And the way that relics currently are, they aren't providing that for as many players as runes did previously. It's a literal downgrade in how quite some players experience the game.

Then the system may be fine for you, but it is not fine for all players.

Not everyone's fun starts with calculating attributes and ends with min-maxing. Not everyone crunches numbers.

In my opinion, Arenanet shouldn't have released the system without the missing effects in the first place.

Lots of systems that are introduced negatively affect a decent amount of players. Balance patches sometimes nerf multiple classes, and a decent amount of players have less fun, but it's still better for the game. Sometimes the economy adjustments to games can be painful but they slow down or reverse inflation, as painful as it might be. Even WoW recently rolled back levels, and a lot of people weren't happy, but it's probably better for the game.

Games are supposed to be fun, but some changes take time to kick in. They can't just change something like this and add everything back in all at once. This is a way to slowly make sure they can sort of keep things balanced, as they add things in. Making a game like this isn't a race it's a marathon. Players who view it as a race, as in the game is less fun for me now ignore how much fun the game will be when things are better. 

There were a whole lot of people who didn't want mounts in the game before mounts were released with PoF, but Anet made them work. It takes time to get stuff right, and some players get that. And the players that don't shouldn't stop anything from moving forward.

In my opinion, long term, the relic system will be better for the game. And I play MMOs for the long term.

[Fueki.4753]

14 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

 They can't just change something like this and add everything back in all at once.

They certainly could have done it. They have changed all the runes at once, too. There're no way they couldn't have added all the relics at once as well.

And if something wasn't ready, at the very least they could (and should) have waited with the release of the system until it's ready to release with all the effects.

They simply didn't want to release the system with all the effects.

18 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

This is a way to slowly make sure they can sort of keep things balanced, as they add things in.

Anything even resembling attempts at balance has been less than an afterthought in this game since at least the release of HoT.

There's no reason they would start trying to balance at this point, especially by omitting harmless and underperforming effects that are just adding to characters' flavours (like the summoning effects).

22 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Making a game like this isn't a race it's a marathon. Players who view it as a race, as in the game is less fun for me now ignore how much fun the game will be when things are better.

When people lose their fun, they leave. If they are already gone, it doesn't matter, whether or not something will be added later.

27 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There were a whole lot of people who didn't want mounts in the game before mounts were released with PoF, but Anet made them work.

Mounts are incomparable to the Relic system. As far as I remember, nothing was taken away when they added mounts. Mounts were simply added in.

[starlinvf.1358]

9 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

As developer you can track a lot of things and let's be real some runes were never used since their sixth bonus was useless. Also ppl took runes for that sixth bonus and not stats so splitting sixth bonus from runes is good decision.

You want something impossible. You will never have everyone "happy". I suppose that some removed bonuses from runes will be added as new relics either as same effect or slightly different.

  Based on numbers Anet has they can see what runes are used. That was one of inputs for their decisions.

I’ve noted threads complaining about relics because they had runes and now have to get relics. The bar is so high for people half the time, I don’t get how that half functions in a video game where a fundamental feature is change.