Relic that applies revealed?

[Kuya.6495]

Super niche, I know, but perhaps Anet can consider that one way of addressing complaints about stealth is to add a relic that applies revealed. I'll leave it to anet to decide how long the revealed and how long the cooldown should be, but it would go a long way to addressing how unfun it is to fight stealth builds at times. Putting revealed on a relic would essentially balance itself out as taking a relic just for revealed denies you the opportunity to use other relics that could be more effective for zergs/other builds. 

 

Anyway I think something like a relic that makes it so 'your next few attacks apply revealed after you use your elite skill' might be cool.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Kuya.6495

[Justine.6351]

It would be cool but also niche. You would immediately have people complain that it hard counters any stealth skill while also people not wanting to waste their relic slot for it. Hence we have reveal traps.

[kash.9213]

That would be fine. Filling that slot is a decision though, there are some fun relics you wouldn't be using. 

Stealth duration could just degrade quickly when moving out of some kind of radius around the target who's holding you in combat if the Stealth was initiated in combat. It's supposed to set up position or orientation for a Stealth Attack. Long duration Stealth stack gives the option for an approach or for masking map travel, but the two types should be a real choice. 

I don't think Relics should be used to mitigate balancing or to solve complaints. Kind of takes the fun out of them. 

[XenesisII.1540]

Just copy https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invisible_Analysis

Striking a stealthed foe applies Revealed 6sec, 25sec cooldown, 1200 range.

[Doggie.3184]

Give me Relics that counter invulnerability then and/or make attacks unblockable. People spamming Invulnerability and Blocks are landslides more annoying than Stealth and have no counterplay currently.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Curennos.9307]

How would this be balanced? Generally, I expect my opponent to have to spend on a one for one basis (generally) - if I use an elite skill I expect them to have to use their elite skill or equivalent (which is hard to measure, to be fair). If it's on a relic, I'd expect something along the lines of 'when hitting a stealthed foe, reduce the duration of stealth on them for 1 sec each time you hit them for 5 seconds, XYZ ICD, 60 sec cooldown' or something to that effect, since gaining stealth requires 1+ skills, a heal, utility skill, or other profession mechanics to get (such as smokescale smoke field + blast or leap finisher of some sort).

[Caffynated.5713]

3 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Give me Relics that counter invulnerability then and/or make attacks unblockable. People spamming Invulnerability and Blocks are landslides more annoying than Stealth and have no counterplay currently.

Invuln spam is annoying, but only the overpowered ones that need to be beaten to death with the nerf bat allow them to attack you while invuln. They also have tend to have long cooldowns. Invulns need to be put in line with Ele's Obsidian Flesh. It used to be an instant cast 5 second invuln that allowed all skills to be used. Now it's a short channel that blocks most skills, or even dodging for on dodge effects like healing and condi removal. 

Stealth can be had from so many traits, abilities and combo fields that it's basically able to be spammed. It's wildly more annoying and overpowered. 

I don't think a counter relic is the answer though.  A blanket nerf on stealth is needed that reveals (6 seconds) the stealthed player when they start using any skill while stealthed. 

[Doggie.3184]

42 minutes ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

Invuln spam is annoying, but only the overpowered ones that need to be beaten to death with the nerf bat allow them to attack you while invuln. They also have tend to have long cooldowns. Invulns need to be put in line with Ele's Obsidian Flesh. It used to be an instant cast 5 second invuln that allowed all skills to be used. Now it's a short channel that blocks most skills, or even dodging for on dodge effects like healing and condi removal. 

Stealth can be had from so many traits, abilities and combo fields that it's basically able to be spammed. It's wildly more annoying and overpowered. 

I don't think a counter relic is the answer though.  A blanket nerf on stealth is needed that reveals (6 seconds) the stealthed player when they start using any skill while stealthed. 

Thats cuz it's all we have left. I used to play without stealth but they nerfed all the evasion builds to death and any other form of survival. Stealth's not just for survival either, attacks are locked behind it too, like condi pistol for example does literally no damage at all outside of the stealth attack cuz that's just how they decided to design it.

[kash.9213]

36 minutes ago, Caffynated.5713 said:

Invuln spam is annoying, but only the overpowered ones that need to be beaten to death with the nerf bat allow them to attack you while invuln. They also have tend to have long cooldowns. Invulns need to be put in line with Ele's Obsidian Flesh. It used to be an instant cast 5 second invuln that allowed all skills to be used. Now it's a short channel that blocks most skills, or even dodging for on dodge effects like healing and condi removal. 

Stealth can be had from so many traits, abilities and combo fields that it's basically able to be spammed. It's wildly more annoying and overpowered. 

I don't think a counter relic is the answer though.  A blanket nerf on stealth is needed that reveals (6 seconds) the stealthed player when they start using any skill while stealthed. 

That's excluding the Stealth Attack skill right? There's an ICD on those and they often need a second attempt. I'm not sure what more reveal time does if people are frustrated about Stealth dropping someone as a target. That feels like more relegation on the already more relegated part of a Stealth approach. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Just copy https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invisible_Analysis

Striking a stealthed foe applies Revealed 6sec, 25sec cooldown, 1200 range.

That would be so broken on Ranger with the way LB #2 tracks 🤣.  That plus Sic' Em means basically perma reveal (12s every 25s)..not good.

4 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I'm not sure what more reveal time does if people are frustrated about Stealth dropping someone as a target. That feels like more relegation on the already more relegated part of a Stealth approach. 

More revealed time does nothing because the people complaining about stealth aren't dying to stealth, they are dying to bursts from it or perma chasing and getting frusterated.  This remains true even if say daredevil is being run and little to no stealth--the mobility alone kills and /or rages so many people.

The problem with stealth for me isn't stealth it's the application rate.  Revealed is just a bad solution for this as it unduly punishes thieves in the same way unblockables unduly punishes say guardians.  

All that's needed is a shimmer or outline to occur after: missing an attack in stealth, a set time in stealth, or applying stealth rapidly.  Should be all that's needed as it still keeps stealth burst intact and the entire mechanic, just not being able to use it + mobility to create an unfair situation.  

 

[kiwituatara.6053]

I think they should just reduce health regen when out of combat. It's the ability to essentially heal back to full and re-engage thats broken imo. I could be wrong~ but they could easily trial it for a week; once you freshly get OOC, you get applied a debuff where you can't remount and your health regens 90% slower for 5s.

[kash.9213]

12 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

That would be so broken on Ranger with the way LB #2 tracks 🤣.  That plus Sic' Em means basically perma reveal (12s every 25s)..not good.

More revealed time does nothing because the people complaining about stealth aren't dying to stealth, they are dying to bursts from it or perma chasing and getting frusterated.  This remains true even if say daredevil is being run and little to no stealth--the mobility alone kills and /or rages so many people.

The problem with stealth for me isn't stealth it's the application rate.  Revealed is just a bad solution for this as it unduly punishes thieves in the same way unblockables unduly punishes say guardians.  

All that's needed is a shimmer or outline to occur after: missing an attack in stealth, a set time in stealth, or applying stealth rapidly.  Should be all that's needed as it still keeps stealth burst intact and the entire mechanic, just not being able to use it + mobility to create an unfair situation.  

 

That sounds practical and more likely to keep a fight rolling. It would even put pressure on top of the Stealth Attack ICD but still allow the opportunity for a second attempt. 

[XenesisII.1540]

15 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

That would be so broken on Ranger with the way LB #2 tracks 🤣.  That plus Sic' Em means basically perma reveal (12s every 25s)..not good.

So put a higher cooldown, I'm just using an example of applied reveal that's already in the game and accepted. 🤷‍♂️

Or just nerf longbow 2 to a single shot. 🤭🤪

[MalekithDG.6124]

3 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Or just nerf longbow 2 to a single shot. 🤭🤪

I dont think you want that man 😄. That sounds like a huge buff for tower defense rangers.

[Shining One.1635]

How about a Relic of Turai Ossa? It can provide Veil Sight. It doesn't reveal the player, so only the one with Veil Sight benefits rather than the whole group. It also allows stealth attacks, so that functionality remains intact.

[Kuya.6495]

36 minutes ago, Shining One.1635 said:

How about a Relic of Turai Ossa? It can provide Veil Sight. It doesn't reveal the player, so only the one with Veil Sight benefits rather than the whole group. It also allows stealth attacks, so that functionality remains intact.

I actually really like this idea!

[Sonork.2916]

46 minutes ago, Shining One.1635 said:

How about a Relic of Turai Ossa? It can provide Veil Sight. It doesn't reveal the player, so only the one with Veil Sight benefits rather than the whole group. It also allows stealth attacks, so that functionality remains intact.

That's a great idea.   But then stealth would have some actual counter play, and anet would never allow that. XD

[kash.9213]

57 minutes ago, Sonork.2916 said:

That's a great idea.   But then stealth would have some actual counter play, and anet would never allow that. XD

Save it, even cleaving with auto is a counter play to stealth. 

What would hold it back is figuring out how that relic would trigger. If they're already in combat, they probably wouldn't need it unless the stealth player tries to bounce or to light them up before contact.

Worth figuring it out though because that would be a creative Relic. Nice find for op. 

 

[Galmac.4680]

Just add a cooldown after being invisible before able to get invisible again. Like 3 secs or so.

[bluberblasen.9684]

Just remove stealth from the game..

Oh... iam 11 years too late