Ele is trash

[Shagie.7612]

13 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

The whole of Ele is shoehorned into this one specific build.      You know.. i like classes that actually give you a bit of variety....   ele no longer does that.

yo ur playin the wrong game at this point for that
but anyways, i don't think looking at FFA fights is that useful considering it's just random, but also actual matches have objectives and roles

i also don't particularly think it's that meaningful to look at the meta build in any various role and then say that because you're not said pick, you're awful, but that's what the gw2 pvp playerbase does all the time.

i do fully understand the dislike of only having one real build while the rest are left to sit in the shadow realm for years at a time, but it's like telling the fighting game player who has a 9-1 match up that your 6-4 match up means that your character's awful. that because you're not Ken, you're equally as bad as Zangief or something

1 minute ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

In a world where the concept of effort=reward is considered

that has never been gw2
in fact it's never been any mmo pvp because it devolves into one build existing simply because it's hardest to play and thus objectively better than everyone else

if you're getting wrecked by the incredibly obvious 900 range sb5 i'm not sure what to tell ya
a point blank one fired backwards sure, cause that catches even high rated players, but if you can't handle rev shortbow as ele you're missing something
you're also getting massively outpositioned by said player if your team's just letting them kite you guys lol

[Sahne.6950]

11 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

yo ur playin the wrong game at this point for that

i think so too.

[Shagie.7612]

4 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i think so too.

for what it's worth, if you're looking for something with controls like this game, or an mmo, or an rpg, it doesn't exist.
gw2's still the best mmo for pvp but the mmo genre doesn't really support the mode because mmo players don't like pvp by and large
i think it's very unlikely that any up and coming one (like riot's, throne and liberty, ashes of creation, etc) does any better

fighting games are very fun and while it's not "your" character, they usually have a lot of archetypes and personalities, and very rarely are there truly bad characters whose weaknesses you can't overcome

i get the struggle though, i tend to like a lot of niche playstyles in games and it's really not fun when they're ignored or slapped by collateral damage

[Sahne.6950]

16 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

for what it's worth, if you're looking for something with controls like this game, or an mmo, or an rpg, it doesn't exist.
gw2's still the best mmo for pvp but the mmo genre doesn't really support the mode because mmo players don't like pvp by and large
i think it's very unlikely that any up and coming one (like riot's, throne and liberty, ashes of creation, etc) does any better

fighting games are very fun and while it's not "your" character, they usually have a lot of archetypes and personalities, and very rarely are there truly bad characters whose weaknesses you can't overcome

i get the struggle though, i tend to like a lot of niche playstyles in games and it's really not fun when they're ignored or slapped by collateral damage

I know m8....   i already spend 90% of my playtime in Smashybros elitesmash. with Yoshi🦕 or Fox. 🦊 

btw, saying gw2 is best mmo for pvp is BIIG copium 😄   There is other games where pvp is a fundamental part of the gameplay loop.   in gw2.... its a afterthought, at best. 

Gw2 used to be good,.. like REEEEAAALLY good....   tactical use of skills... reading ur oponent to dodge cc..... yada yada...   but nowadays, 80% of builds function with a almost fixed rotation and you dont really need to react to anything anymore xD  Activate a defense , and just keep hammering the dps buttons while the stability is active...., until the defense runs out and then you pop another one.... rinse and repeat.   

Gw2 spvp has lost all its sauce....  if you didnt have that nostalgia in your head, you wouldnt be here for the content that its providing right now.

But thats another story to tell.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Shagie.7612]

2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

in gw2.... its a afterthought, at best. 

i mean, yeah, but that's true of pretty much any current mmo? gw2, for all its flaws, still has really smooth character controls and that makes it a lot more enjoyable than virtually any of the others

and because i can't resist, smash isn't a real fighting game, play tekken :^)

[Sahne.6950]

idk if youve played Archeage... but that is 10x times more enjoyable, if youd ask me 😄    there you have actualy openworld pvp enabled ALL THE TIME... and you loose your items if you die.   Movement allows for flying, teleporting, mounting in combat, cars, tanks, yada yada......  That is the real itch.  

Sadly it degenerated into a Korean farming simulator, where you are left in the dust if you dont play daily or p2w.  

Thats the only good thing about gw2.  You can compete, even if you are a lazy fk.

Spoiler

24 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

and because i can't resist, smash isn't a real fighting game, play tekken :^)

Compare the e-sports scene and the playercount of the two games, and you get a diffrent result. 😉

https://gamesight.io/leaderboards/fighting-games

This thread derailed harder than that magnetic train in 2006.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[Deadmoose.6594]

Yeah because I'm going to complain about being able to superspeed an entire map or run away from literally any fight I'm in if I start to lose. Also going to complain about being able to go into a rock form for 15 seconds and be completely invulnerable to damage. All while making aoe circles over a node preventing the other team from doing anything.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

mmmmmmmm

I dunno about trash. It's definitely not overpowered anymore though. The only eles I have issues fighting are the ones that made it their life's work to study the way of the lightning orb or whatever, instead of mockingly-titled-obvious-alts riding FoTM builds. It's in the same boat as holo- I don't care about ele unless it's like... Saladis or Poelala or Vingam. I don't care about holo unless it's like... Ambi or Rory or Spleef Demon.

I'd like that to be how it is across the board, with people who really stand out being the players that actually took the time to comb through what their skills and other people's skills do, instead of just slapping on a build and button mashing.

Power cata still in the meta. I would not go so far as to say it's trashbin. Any adjustments to it should be really tailored to QoL instead of making it uninterruptible though. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

idk if youve played Archeage... 

Can't relate, have no house. Charr > Firran. 

Literally went "Is that a REAL ESTATE SIMULATOR 👀 " upon betaing this and never went back

[Guirssane.7082]

Staff tempest support is like the best support in pvp, how is ele bad

[Flowki.7194]

I barely play ele now, its just not fun, the scepter nerf killed off so many balanced specs, forcing eles into melee range, yet they are not great side or group melee fighters in the current game. They are not aweful by any means, but it feels like a whole load of extra effort compared to when I play other classes/specs.

 

Hammer is porbably the best spec left, and even that feels underwhelming for the effort. There are multiple specs that has as much sustain (partly through mobility) than hammer cata, and more mobility. Side noding on hammer cata isn't great,  such specs can just leave if they start to lose, but you can't do the same, which really sets you up for being +1d on certain points. Yet, mid fights are full of ground spam, scourge+DH being a particularly horrible combo, with the addition of SPBs and chronos ripping the fk out of boons>stability. It wouldnt be quite as bad if you could sit in fire attunment a little longer and utilise the range, but you simply can't do that due to the mechanics of stability/sustain forcing constant shifts, meaning your dmg tanks like a rock OR you have to go into all the point spam.

 

Before scepter nerf barely anybody used hammer, simply for the reasons above. Scepter allowed range which allowed you to keep out of ground spam, or have a chance to pressure other ranged specs. Hammer or dagger main basically remove those options, are difficult to play, much higher risk, and the rewards are not much above average. SB, LB untamed, zerker, chrono, scourge, on and on. Far ower effort OR lower risk and often higher reward. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Downstate.4697]

Buff scepter and mainhand dagger damage and it would be fine mostly

[Sweetbread.3678]

The scepter nerf was warranted; it was always stupid to have that much damage on an auto-targeting ranged auto-attack. The problem with those nerfs was that, as usual, Ele was held to a completely different standard than the rest of the classes. It's the only class that actually seems to adhere to something even remotely resembling a philosophy of risk vs. reward, because it's the "hard" class (or I guess a better way to put it would be that it's not one of the "deliberately easy" classes) and one of the only ones with enough depth to actually explore it; meanwhile everything else gets to commit the same sins or greater, because there's no real overarching balance philosophy, cohesion between the class designers, and for profit reasons they don't want to alienate the throngs of dum-dums that Necro, Guard, Ranger, etc. have been designed for by making them actually deal with any decision making more complicated than swapping between 10 overloaded weapon skills (looking at you Ranger greatsword) and occasionally pressing F1. Really Ele doesn't need buffs; all of the brain-dead kitten just needs to be nerfed/expanded design-wise to the point where it actually requires some small modicum of effort to pilot and has actual risk and effort vs. reward tradeoffs.

[Flowki.7194]

25 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

The scepter nerf was warranted; it was always stupid to have that much damage on an auto-targeting ranged auto-attack. The problem with those nerfs was that, as usual, Ele was held to a completely different standard than the rest of the classes. It's the only class that actually seems to adhere to something even remotely resembling a philosophy of risk vs. reward, because it's the "hard" class (or I guess a better way to put it would be that it's not one of the "deliberately easy" classes) and one of the only ones with enough depth to actually explore it; meanwhile everything else gets to commit the same sins or greater, because there's no real overarching balance philosophy, cohesion between the class designers, and for profit reasons they don't want to alienate the throngs of dum-dums that Necro, Guard, Ranger, etc. have been designed for by making them actually deal with any decision making more complicated than swapping between 10 overloaded weapon skills (looking at you Ranger greatsword) and occasionally pressing F1. Really Ele doesn't need buffs; all of the brain-dead kitten just needs to be nerfed/expanded design-wise to the point where it actually requires some small modicum of effort to pilot and has actual risk and effort vs. reward tradeoffs.

 

I agree, the effort/risk/reward is way off in this game. It took me a long time to get remotely good enough on ele and rev in general, where I felt confident to side node, and I still lose a fair few of them. I played blade for a few hours, was winning most 1v1s, and some 1v2s. A fair few other specs ive played are not as bad as that, but are clearly a lot easier in applying damage or mitigating it. I still don't know why on earth more complaints are not made about condi zerker, all that damage on 1 button.. but its not an auto attack so its not as bad?

 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I miss some decent survivability after these changes:

• The removal of Celestial stats from PvP
• The obliteration of the Stone Heart trait
• The removal of +10% health bonus of the Divinity runes

On the side of offense:

• Scepter fire attunement skill 1 hardly applies any burning now.
• Remember that we could make a lava font when downed? Yeah, was nice. No longer there. Still miss it.

I exclusively play Tempest DPS. Skill level around gold 1.

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 im pretty sure peops or the good guys do not complain about condi zerker cause as you said all its dmg comes just by one skill.... Dodge that kitten and your litterly fine ^^. Anyways still i would prefer to have more ways to deal actually dmg than just been tanky af and litterly facerole Defence skills (See you condi Berserker and bsw) Sadly warr is that nerfed this is just the only way to Play in high Divisions Games . Just full defence mode and hope someone plus you or your enemys Runs into the 1 or 2 skills that actually doing some dmg xd

[Kuma.1503]

18 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Meanwhile lil boy that has no icd on stunning targets. 😞

Engi also has one of the best hard hitting stuns that they frequently combo with stealth. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap

And ofc there's https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flashbang that you can prime off of dodges. 

 

Might seem weird that I'm taking a stance against engi, but I can't stand the "It's OP/degen when other classes do it" type of hypocrisy. 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Eeeeeeeh I dunno man.

Unless some of the good Ele players in NA are running some straight exploits/hacks, I'm seeing some very strong performance from Ele lately.

Particularly Weaver, I'm seeing Weavers that get chased 2v1 in 2v2 arenas and seriously don't lose any health for like 3 minutes straight, and can still death burst you if they catch you just right while being ultra evasive tanky. And yeah... for once I'm seeing Weaver outperforming Cata. Absolutely no idea what's happening, but I'm definitely seeing this often lately.

And this isn't based on me 1v1 Weavers as a Ranger. This is like me watching the Weavers do this. Even when they are on my team, they just aren't losing health very often lately. They seem as evasive as old Staff Bouncey Thieves or something.

[Sahne.6950]

10 hours ago, Downstate.4697 said:

Buff scepter and mainhand dagger damage and it would be fine mostly

Thats all i would ever ask for....

[Flowki.7194]

21 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 im pretty sure peops or the good guys do not complain about condi zerker cause as you said all its dmg comes just by one skill.... Dodge that kitten and your litterly fine ^^. Anyways still i would prefer to have more ways to deal actually dmg than just been tanky af and litterly facerole Defence skills (See you condi Berserker and bsw) Sadly warr is that nerfed this is just the only way to Play in high Divisions Games . Just full defence mode and hope someone plus you or your enemys Runs into the 1 or 2 skills that actually doing some dmg xd

You know full well it isnt just 1 chance, it has 3 to 4 attempts within 10 seconds or so? immob setup aside. It kinde reminds me of DH, avoid multiple efforts, but just get hit once and you take a kitten tonn of dmg. I don't think its very fun game play on either side of that fight.

[aymnad.9023]

Scepter is good. The weapon provides some strong damage, lots of skills are using aoe targets or can be fired without any positioning restrictions, it has short cd and even decent defense. I played it the all season and hardly see why it would need a buff.

As for dagger mainhand my issue is that it just goes for everything at once. Sustain, cc, some damage. It tries to put everything so I just do not have fun playing it if I want to go for a “specialized” playstyle and do not have fun fighting it because it will always take forever. Scepter and staff got a rework that made them fit into a role but this one is still the multiclass weapon.

Edited October 18, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Flowki.7194]

44 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Scepter is good. The weapon provides some strong damage, lots of skills are using aoe targets or can be fired without any positioning restrictions, it has short cd. I played it the all season and hardly see why it would need a buff.

As for dagger mainhand my issue is that it just goes for everything at once. Sustain, cc, some damage. It tries to put everything so I just do not have fun playing it if I want to go for a “specialized” playstyle and do not have fun fighting it because it will always take forever. Scepter and staff got a rework that made them fit into a role but this one is still the multiclass weapon.

Good compared to what? its power dmg got reduced, condi dmg killed completely, and there are specs putting out more damage with more range. Its at the point where FA staff DPS tempest+air overload spam is a viable alternative to scepter tempest. That wasnt remotely close when dps tempest had decent condi scepter damage.

[Downstate.4697]

2 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

Scepter is good. The weapon provides some strong damage, lots of skills are using aoe targets or can be fired without any positioning restrictions, it has short cd and even decent defense. I played it the all season and hardly see why it would need a buff.

As for dagger mainhand my issue is that it just goes for everything at once. Sustain, cc, some damage. It tries to put everything so I just do not have fun playing it if I want to go for a “specialized” playstyle and do not have fun fighting it because it will always take forever. Scepter and staff got a rework that made them fit into a role but this one is still the multiclass weapon.

Scepter is good…on weaver. Reverting the nerfs from a few months ago should fix it.

Dagger needs a lot more. Like a 25% increase in damage on all skills. Maybe some buffs to water skills too

[aymnad.9023]

19 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Good compared to what? its power dmg got reduced, condi dmg killed completely, and there are specs putting out more damage with more range. Its at the point where FA staff DPS tempest+air overload spam is a viable alternative to scepter tempest. That wasnt remotely close when dps tempest had decent condi scepter damage.

Good compared to most weapons available in the game. Just take a look at what other professions have. For most professions dragon’s tooth or shatterstone is the equivalent of a heavy hitting skill on a close combat weapon. The only spell that needs direct vision is water trident when most professions need to face the target or have to face projectile reflect. There are not that many weapons as strong and flexible at the same time.

Edited October 19, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Kuma.1503]

I spend 90% of my time either playing ele or meme engi builds. 

I literally rank my build's power in core engis. How many core engis' worth of strength is this build I'm playing. If the answer is more than 1, that's a playable build for me. 

Soo yeah, ele honestly doesn't feel all that bad. Scepter still lets you cast most of it's spell without facing the target, and you can kite with superspeed, chain blocks when focused, burst hard with high might stacks. You explode if you miss a dodge or get focused by something with unblockables but that's to be expected for a DPS with 11k base hp. 

 

Honestly, just give me another rune set like divinity with a 10% hp boost. Losing that makes running berserker amulet feel more squishy than it used to. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Kuma.1503