TheQuickFox.3826 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I consider the current raids as hard mode and a second easier, considerably more forgiving mode would be very welcome to me. A mode that allows all builds to get into groups like the lower tier fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @STIHL.2489 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@nia.4725 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@nia.4725 said:I could understand an easy mode with little rewards. But to want an easy mode with full access to the rewards people who actually try get is laughable. You want to get the shiny cool thing just by doing nothing. Doing nothing should reward little to nothing. You want cool things? Earn them.Nobody's asking for anything for doing nothing. Every proposal involving easy mode involves doing as much work as hard mode, just in an easier mode. It would be earning things, just at a lighter pace. Man hires you to do a job, "I want you to carry 1000 bricks from here to there, and I'll pay you $100 to do it."You decide that it would be best to do a little working out, until you can carry 50 bricks in a load. You go up, pick up 50 bricks, carry them, repeat this process 20 times, and the job's done, here's your $100. Another guy gets hired to do the same job. He figures he can already carry 10 bricks at a time, and doubts he's willing or able to build himself up to the point that he can carry 50. So he just carries 10 at a time. He does get stronger as he does this, by the last load he might even be strong enough to carry 50 at a time, but 10 is much more comfortable for him and he's fine with that. So 100 loads later, he's managed to carry over the same 1000 bricks as the other guy, he gets his $100 too. You come over and start whining about how the second guy "didn't do any work at all" because he was only carrying 1/5th the load as he was. Boss just shrugs, the stack of 1000 bricks got where it was going, the work got done, the man earned his salary. You are the one who literally said that you expect to be able to play the guitar as soon as you pick it up. You have literally said that you expect to be able to clear the raid as soon as you get to it just by dodging red circles. That is doing nothing. But still you expect to get the same shinies as me, just by dodging red circles, when I dodge those, go to green ones, give my squad the buffs they need, heal them when they need it, keep red orbs away from them. That is absolutely unfair. A person who actually tries to play can't get the same as someone lazy who just wants to autoattack. I really really like tribulation mode skins. However, those skins are meant to people who try and succeed in tribulation mode. I'm literally crap at SAB and I don't even like it, so I won't ever get those skins. And it's completely fair. Because those skins are for those who persevere enough to get them. They earn it, if I get those skins in baby mode I'm not earning anything. Trib mode is how it is and I accept the fact that, if I want those skins, I have to do an effort to get them. It would be unfair for me to go crying to anet asking them to cheese trib mode so that lazy SAB players like me get the shiny those people who are persevering get. I really like the luminiscent carapace armor but I don't like open world PvE and I don't like the things required to get it, so I don't get it. And I accept the fact that if I want it I have to do what is required to get it even if I don't like it. I don't go crying to anet asking to change the way those skins are get.I really like the ascended WvW armor but I'm rank 163 and I don't like WvW enough to reach rank 2k. It's a very high rank meant to those who actually play the game mode regularly, not for WvW casuals like me. I accept the fact that if I want that armor I have to play WvW and earn it, just as everyone else.And 2490248204920 more examples.This is the same.As I said I could understand an easy mode with little rewards meant for lazy people, people who don't have the time to learn real raids, whatever.Woah now. So people who don’t have much time for the game or raiding are lazy?Yup.. it seems if you are not willing to devote yourself to doing raids, and making them the priority in your life to memorize the scripted moves and rotations of your fixed role class, you're some lazy unskilled scrub who should go off to PvP and WvW facing other players in brutal dynamic combat for your gear.Umm Hummm.. That is the logic you are dealing with here.Naaaaaaaaah you don't need to devote yourself to raids in order to be able to raid, even less making them the priority of your life. You're exaggerating and proving you don't know what you're talking about.If you don't want a rotation then play support. Chrono has a rotation but support firebrand, support revenant, heal tempest and druid don't. When I started raiding I struggled a lot with DPS rotations, actually I keep strugging with weaver's, so I switched to druid and things got a lot easier.You will never be able to beat a boss without a minimally decent dps rotation. Even if they cheese the boss and cut its HP to half the original one. Or even a quarter. DPS will not be enough. One thing is not being willing to devote to raids. That is completely OK. But current raids DO NOT require you to do that. And if you claim they do, you simply are lying and you don't know a thing about raids.Another thing is to say you're not willing to learn raids because you don't like them, therefore anet has to cheese them because you want the shiny skins anyway. This is what our lovely friend Ohoni is saying constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.No, no content was changed, Anet provided players with New content, big difference there... just saying it’s kinda common sense, unless your comment is referring to something different than Raids being Added into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.No, no content was changed, Anet provided players with New content, big difference there... just saying it’s kinda common sense, unless your comment is referring to something different than Raids being Added into the game.Lets see, CM's and More Fractals were added, as well as changes to them to make more difficult.. that counts as a change.Also.. fussing "Oh it's all too easy" is still crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @nia.4725 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@nia.4725 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@nia.4725 said:I could understand an easy mode with little rewards. But to want an easy mode with full access to the rewards people who actually try get is laughable. You want to get the shiny cool thing just by doing nothing. Doing nothing should reward little to nothing. You want cool things? Earn them.Nobody's asking for anything for doing nothing. Every proposal involving easy mode involves doing as much work as hard mode, just in an easier mode. It would be earning things, just at a lighter pace. Man hires you to do a job, "I want you to carry 1000 bricks from here to there, and I'll pay you $100 to do it."You decide that it would be best to do a little working out, until you can carry 50 bricks in a load. You go up, pick up 50 bricks, carry them, repeat this process 20 times, and the job's done, here's your $100. Another guy gets hired to do the same job. He figures he can already carry 10 bricks at a time, and doubts he's willing or able to build himself up to the point that he can carry 50. So he just carries 10 at a time. He does get stronger as he does this, by the last load he might even be strong enough to carry 50 at a time, but 10 is much more comfortable for him and he's fine with that. So 100 loads later, he's managed to carry over the same 1000 bricks as the other guy, he gets his $100 too. You come over and start whining about how the second guy "didn't do any work at all" because he was only carrying 1/5th the load as he was. Boss just shrugs, the stack of 1000 bricks got where it was going, the work got done, the man earned his salary. You are the one who literally said that you expect to be able to play the guitar as soon as you pick it up. You have literally said that you expect to be able to clear the raid as soon as you get to it just by dodging red circles. That is doing nothing. But still you expect to get the same shinies as me, just by dodging red circles, when I dodge those, go to green ones, give my squad the buffs they need, heal them when they need it, keep red orbs away from them. That is absolutely unfair. A person who actually tries to play can't get the same as someone lazy who just wants to autoattack. I really really like tribulation mode skins. However, those skins are meant to people who try and succeed in tribulation mode. I'm literally crap at SAB and I don't even like it, so I won't ever get those skins. And it's completely fair. Because those skins are for those who persevere enough to get them. They earn it, if I get those skins in baby mode I'm not earning anything. Trib mode is how it is and I accept the fact that, if I want those skins, I have to do an effort to get them. It would be unfair for me to go crying to anet asking them to cheese trib mode so that lazy SAB players like me get the shiny those people who are persevering get. I really like the luminiscent carapace armor but I don't like open world PvE and I don't like the things required to get it, so I don't get it. And I accept the fact that if I want it I have to do what is required to get it even if I don't like it. I don't go crying to anet asking to change the way those skins are get.I really like the ascended WvW armor but I'm rank 163 and I don't like WvW enough to reach rank 2k. It's a very high rank meant to those who actually play the game mode regularly, not for WvW casuals like me. I accept the fact that if I want that armor I have to play WvW and earn it, just as everyone else.And 2490248204920 more examples.This is the same.As I said I could understand an easy mode with little rewards meant for lazy people, people who don't have the time to learn real raids, whatever.Woah now. So people who don’t have much time for the game or raiding are lazy?Yup.. it seems if you are not willing to devote yourself to doing raids, and making them the priority in your life to memorize the scripted moves and rotations of your fixed role class, you're some lazy unskilled scrub who should go off to PvP and WvW facing other players in brutal dynamic combat for your gear.Umm Hummm.. That is the logic you are dealing with here.Naaaaaaaaah you don't need to devote yourself to raids in order to be able to raid, even less making them the priority of your life. You're exaggerating and proving you don't know what you're talking about.... and yet we both know what I said.. is exactly what you did to get into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @STIHL.2489 said:@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.No, no content was changed, Anet provided players with New content, big difference there... just saying it’s kinda common sense, unless your comment is referring to something different than Raids being Added into the game.Lets see, CM's and More Fractals were added, as well as changes to them to make more difficult.. that counts as a change.Also.. fussing "Oh it's all too easy" is still crying.This thread is about Raids not Fractals or CMs so can’t lump those in with this just saying, but I gotta nderstand when arguments fail gotta reach!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @STIHL.2489 said:@nia.4725 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@nia.4725 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@nia.4725 said:I could understand an easy mode with little rewards. But to want an easy mode with full access to the rewards people who actually try get is laughable. You want to get the shiny cool thing just by doing nothing. Doing nothing should reward little to nothing. You want cool things? Earn them.Nobody's asking for anything for doing nothing. Every proposal involving easy mode involves doing as much work as hard mode, just in an easier mode. It would be earning things, just at a lighter pace. Man hires you to do a job, "I want you to carry 1000 bricks from here to there, and I'll pay you $100 to do it."You decide that it would be best to do a little working out, until you can carry 50 bricks in a load. You go up, pick up 50 bricks, carry them, repeat this process 20 times, and the job's done, here's your $100. Another guy gets hired to do the same job. He figures he can already carry 10 bricks at a time, and doubts he's willing or able to build himself up to the point that he can carry 50. So he just carries 10 at a time. He does get stronger as he does this, by the last load he might even be strong enough to carry 50 at a time, but 10 is much more comfortable for him and he's fine with that. So 100 loads later, he's managed to carry over the same 1000 bricks as the other guy, he gets his $100 too. You come over and start whining about how the second guy "didn't do any work at all" because he was only carrying 1/5th the load as he was. Boss just shrugs, the stack of 1000 bricks got where it was going, the work got done, the man earned his salary. You are the one who literally said that you expect to be able to play the guitar as soon as you pick it up. You have literally said that you expect to be able to clear the raid as soon as you get to it just by dodging red circles. That is doing nothing. But still you expect to get the same shinies as me, just by dodging red circles, when I dodge those, go to green ones, give my squad the buffs they need, heal them when they need it, keep red orbs away from them. That is absolutely unfair. A person who actually tries to play can't get the same as someone lazy who just wants to autoattack. I really really like tribulation mode skins. However, those skins are meant to people who try and succeed in tribulation mode. I'm literally crap at SAB and I don't even like it, so I won't ever get those skins. And it's completely fair. Because those skins are for those who persevere enough to get them. They earn it, if I get those skins in baby mode I'm not earning anything. Trib mode is how it is and I accept the fact that, if I want those skins, I have to do an effort to get them. It would be unfair for me to go crying to anet asking them to cheese trib mode so that lazy SAB players like me get the shiny those people who are persevering get. I really like the luminiscent carapace armor but I don't like open world PvE and I don't like the things required to get it, so I don't get it. And I accept the fact that if I want it I have to do what is required to get it even if I don't like it. I don't go crying to anet asking to change the way those skins are get.I really like the ascended WvW armor but I'm rank 163 and I don't like WvW enough to reach rank 2k. It's a very high rank meant to those who actually play the game mode regularly, not for WvW casuals like me. I accept the fact that if I want that armor I have to play WvW and earn it, just as everyone else.And 2490248204920 more examples.This is the same.As I said I could understand an easy mode with little rewards meant for lazy people, people who don't have the time to learn real raids, whatever.Woah now. So people who don’t have much time for the game or raiding are lazy?Yup.. it seems if you are not willing to devote yourself to doing raids, and making them the priority in your life to memorize the scripted moves and rotations of your fixed role class, you're some lazy unskilled scrub who should go off to PvP and WvW facing other players in brutal dynamic combat for your gear.Umm Hummm.. That is the logic you are dealing with here.Naaaaaaaaah you don't need to devote yourself to raids in order to be able to raid, even less making them the priority of your life. You're exaggerating and proving you don't know what you're talking about.... and yet we both know what I said.. is exactly what you did to get into them.You don't have any idea of how I got into raids. Don't talk about what you don't know.But I will say it I started raiding a year ago, created a static with two friends. I had been casually playing tempest until then, and found me struggling A LOT with it in raids. My dps was crap, my survivability was crap. I felt I was never going to be able to raid. I got so discouraged I didn't feel like raiding. It was like that for a month; then I decided to try out druid. Everything went well since then.However, I had a lot of arguments with my friend. He always wanted to raid, he'd be all his GW2 time pugging raids, because he wanted to learn and improve quickly. I wasn't interested in that -all I wanted was to play raids with my friends, and I was OK with a slower learning curve. I also was crap at the DPS golem, I have a bad memory and a depression so I can't spend a lot of time on the robot. I just get discouraged soon. I also get bored soon of practicing.So I didn't do a lot of training raids. I didn't spend hours on the robot. I didn't devote myself to it. I just kept raiding on our raiding schedule, and I focused on what it interested me -playing druid and chrono. Many months later, I started gearing and trying DPS roles. I am still bad at DPS.So yeah, I absolutely devoted myself to raids and made them my priority in life to get into them. Yeah yeah yeah. Keep crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same?I can wait it out, as the game get older, these niche content will lose support, when it’s going for it’s target audience. I imagine even now there isn’t as much raiding since people have acquired the Legendary armor. W6 I imagine would finish the ring, then what a legendary amulet? Hard to say, the nature of the pacing for the game mode, will eventually kill itself off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Tyson.5160 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same?I can wait it out, as the game get older, these niche content will lose support, when it’s going for it’s target audience. I imagine even now there isn’t as much raiding since people have acquired the Legendary armor. W6 I imagine would finish the ring, then what a legendary amulet? Hard to say, the nature of the pacing for the game mode, will eventually kill itself off.You know, this month mightyteapot hosted a hardcore raiding tournament. Do you know how many people watched his stream? The number went from 4k to 5k in the grand finale. That is a lot of people watching a stream in this game.It's funny how you keep repeating this, as if it validates any other argument claiming for an easy mode to be made. It's like a baby crying. "I don't have anything else to argue so I'll say that the game mode will die eventually and you, haha, you will be screwed hahaha just wait". The reality is that a lot of people raid and every day more people get interested in it and actually start raiding. I'm not even making this up or making assumptions. You just have to look at all the posts from people new to raids asking for help with builds and rotations. I've been a raiding guild leader for a lot of time and I've had new people joining my guild every week, trying to get into raids, even people who don't have a lot of time for that. And you know what? They raide. We helped them, brought them to raids, explained the boss and they killed it in very few attempts. It is undeniably true that starting in raids can be harsh -the accessibility is not quite good, but not because of the difficulty of raids. The real issue is how the game mode doesn't have more trainers and guides than those that, as me, want to help and actually take some of their time to create content that will help noobies, or train them in the actual boss. It's because of that, not because the boss per se. However, if you really want to raid you'll be able to do it and experienced raiders have said multiple times how to get started at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @nia.4725 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same?I can wait it out, as the game get older, these niche content will lose support, when it’s going for it’s target audience. I imagine even now there isn’t as much raiding since people have acquired the Legendary armor. W6 I imagine would finish the ring, then what a legendary amulet? Hard to say, the nature of the pacing for the game mode, will eventually kill itself off.You know, this month mightyteapot hosted a hardcore raiding tournament. Do you know how many people watched his stream? The number went from 4k to 5k in the grand finale. That is a lot of people watching a stream in this game.It's funny how you keep repeating this, as if it validates any other argument claiming for an easy mode to be made. It's like a baby crying. "I don't have anything else to argue so I'll say that the game mode will die eventually and you, haha, you will be screwed hahaha just wait". The reality is that a lot of people raid and every day more people get interested in it and actually start raiding. I'm not even making this up or making assumptions. You just have to look at all the posts from people new to raids asking for help with builds and rotations. I've been a raiding guild leader for a lot of time and I've had new people joining my guild every week, trying to get into raids, even people who don't have a lot of time for that. And you know what? They raide. We helped them, brought them to raids, explained the boss and they killed it in very few attempts. It is undeniably true that starting in raids can be harsh -the accessibility is not quite good, but not because of the difficulty of raids. The real issue is how the game mode doesn't have more trainers and guides than those that, as me, want to help and actually take some of their time to create content that will help noobies, or train them in the actual boss. It's because of that, not because the boss per se. However, if you really want to raid you'll be able to do it and experienced raiders have said multiple times how to get started at it. Everything that has a beginning, has an end, Nia.It’s the destiny of niche content to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Tyson.5160 said:@nia.4725 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same?I can wait it out, as the game get older, these niche content will lose support, when it’s going for it’s target audience. I imagine even now there isn’t as much raiding since people have acquired the Legendary armor. W6 I imagine would finish the ring, then what a legendary amulet? Hard to say, the nature of the pacing for the game mode, will eventually kill itself off.You know, this month mightyteapot hosted a hardcore raiding tournament. Do you know how many people watched his stream? The number went from 4k to 5k in the grand finale. That is a lot of people watching a stream in this game.It's funny how you keep repeating this, as if it validates any other argument claiming for an easy mode to be made. It's like a baby crying. "I don't have anything else to argue so I'll say that the game mode will die eventually and you, haha, you will be screwed hahaha just wait". The reality is that a lot of people raid and every day more people get interested in it and actually start raiding. I'm not even making this up or making assumptions. You just have to look at all the posts from people new to raids asking for help with builds and rotations. I've been a raiding guild leader for a lot of time and I've had new people joining my guild every week, trying to get into raids, even people who don't have a lot of time for that. And you know what? They raide. We helped them, brought them to raids, explained the boss and they killed it in very few attempts. It is undeniably true that starting in raids can be harsh -the accessibility is not quite good, but not because of the difficulty of raids. The real issue is how the game mode doesn't have more trainers and guides than those that, as me, want to help and actually take some of their time to create content that will help noobies, or train them in the actual boss. It's because of that, not because the boss per se. However, if you really want to raid you'll be able to do it and experienced raiders have said multiple times how to get started at it. Everything that has a beginning, has an end, Nia.It’s the destiny of niche content to end.All content is niche. Nothing has infinite replayability value and nothing can possibly interest everyone. But the thing is, you'll find more activity today in raids, than you would on some open world maps. RIP open world, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Feanor.2358 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@nia.4725 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same?I can wait it out, as the game get older, these niche content will lose support, when it’s going for it’s target audience. I imagine even now there isn’t as much raiding since people have acquired the Legendary armor. W6 I imagine would finish the ring, then what a legendary amulet? Hard to say, the nature of the pacing for the game mode, will eventually kill itself off.You know, this month mightyteapot hosted a hardcore raiding tournament. Do you know how many people watched his stream? The number went from 4k to 5k in the grand finale. That is a lot of people watching a stream in this game.It's funny how you keep repeating this, as if it validates any other argument claiming for an easy mode to be made. It's like a baby crying. "I don't have anything else to argue so I'll say that the game mode will die eventually and you, haha, you will be screwed hahaha just wait". The reality is that a lot of people raid and every day more people get interested in it and actually start raiding. I'm not even making this up or making assumptions. You just have to look at all the posts from people new to raids asking for help with builds and rotations. I've been a raiding guild leader for a lot of time and I've had new people joining my guild every week, trying to get into raids, even people who don't have a lot of time for that. And you know what? They raide. We helped them, brought them to raids, explained the boss and they killed it in very few attempts. It is undeniably true that starting in raids can be harsh -the accessibility is not quite good, but not because of the difficulty of raids. The real issue is how the game mode doesn't have more trainers and guides than those that, as me, want to help and actually take some of their time to create content that will help noobies, or train them in the actual boss. It's because of that, not because the boss per se. However, if you really want to raid you'll be able to do it and experienced raiders have said multiple times how to get started at it. Everything that has a beginning, has an end, Nia.It’s the destiny of niche content to end.All content is niche. Nothing has infinite replayability value and nothing can possibly interest everyone. But the thing is, you'll find more activity today in raids, than you would on some open world maps. RIP open world, then? Seems highly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Tyson.5160 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@nia.4725 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same?I can wait it out, as the game get older, these niche content will lose support, when it’s going for it’s target audience. I imagine even now there isn’t as much raiding since people have acquired the Legendary armor. W6 I imagine would finish the ring, then what a legendary amulet? Hard to say, the nature of the pacing for the game mode, will eventually kill itself off.You know, this month mightyteapot hosted a hardcore raiding tournament. Do you know how many people watched his stream? The number went from 4k to 5k in the grand finale. That is a lot of people watching a stream in this game.It's funny how you keep repeating this, as if it validates any other argument claiming for an easy mode to be made. It's like a baby crying. "I don't have anything else to argue so I'll say that the game mode will die eventually and you, haha, you will be screwed hahaha just wait". The reality is that a lot of people raid and every day more people get interested in it and actually start raiding. I'm not even making this up or making assumptions. You just have to look at all the posts from people new to raids asking for help with builds and rotations. I've been a raiding guild leader for a lot of time and I've had new people joining my guild every week, trying to get into raids, even people who don't have a lot of time for that. And you know what? They raide. We helped them, brought them to raids, explained the boss and they killed it in very few attempts. It is undeniably true that starting in raids can be harsh -the accessibility is not quite good, but not because of the difficulty of raids. The real issue is how the game mode doesn't have more trainers and guides than those that, as me, want to help and actually take some of their time to create content that will help noobies, or train them in the actual boss. It's because of that, not because the boss per se. However, if you really want to raid you'll be able to do it and experienced raiders have said multiple times how to get started at it. Everything that has a beginning, has an end, Nia.It’s the destiny of niche content to end.All content is niche. Nothing has infinite replayability value and nothing can possibly interest everyone. But the thing is, you'll find more activity today in raids, than you would on some open world maps. RIP open world, then? Seems highly unlikely.Then the same applies to raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Feanor.2358 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@nia.4725 said:@Tyson.5160 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same?I can wait it out, as the game get older, these niche content will lose support, when it’s going for it’s target audience. I imagine even now there isn’t as much raiding since people have acquired the Legendary armor. W6 I imagine would finish the ring, then what a legendary amulet? Hard to say, the nature of the pacing for the game mode, will eventually kill itself off.You know, this month mightyteapot hosted a hardcore raiding tournament. Do you know how many people watched his stream? The number went from 4k to 5k in the grand finale. That is a lot of people watching a stream in this game.It's funny how you keep repeating this, as if it validates any other argument claiming for an easy mode to be made. It's like a baby crying. "I don't have anything else to argue so I'll say that the game mode will die eventually and you, haha, you will be screwed hahaha just wait". The reality is that a lot of people raid and every day more people get interested in it and actually start raiding. I'm not even making this up or making assumptions. You just have to look at all the posts from people new to raids asking for help with builds and rotations. I've been a raiding guild leader for a lot of time and I've had new people joining my guild every week, trying to get into raids, even people who don't have a lot of time for that. And you know what? They raide. We helped them, brought them to raids, explained the boss and they killed it in very few attempts. It is undeniably true that starting in raids can be harsh -the accessibility is not quite good, but not because of the difficulty of raids. The real issue is how the game mode doesn't have more trainers and guides than those that, as me, want to help and actually take some of their time to create content that will help noobies, or train them in the actual boss. It's because of that, not because the boss per se. However, if you really want to raid you'll be able to do it and experienced raiders have said multiple times how to get started at it. Everything that has a beginning, has an end, Nia.It’s the destiny of niche content to end.All content is niche. Nothing has infinite replayability value and nothing can possibly interest everyone. But the thing is, you'll find more activity today in raids, than you would on some open world maps. RIP open world, then? Seems highly unlikely.Then the same applies to raids.Then we will both go down with the ship. How long can you hold your breath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 PVPers have legendary armor goalsWVWers have legendary armor goalsRaiders have legendary armor goalsPVErs who dont raid have no Legendary armor goals. For those being selfish, get over your own needs and think about those PVERS, they are just as important as the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynioch.1873 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:PVPers have legendary armor goalsWVWers have legendary armor goalsRaiders have legendary armor goalsPVErs who dont raid have no Legendary armor goals. For those being selfish, get over your own needs and think about those PVERS, they are just as important as the rest of us.Every mode except open world has no gen 2 weapon goals. You have your own unique goals. You don't need everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:PVPers have legendary armor goalsWVWers have legendary armor goalsRaiders have legendary armor goalsPVErs who dont raid have no Legendary armor goals. For those being selfish, get over your own needs and think about those PVERS, they are just as important as the rest of us.Raids are PvE so Pver’s have access to Legendary Armor, on top of All Gen 2 Legendary Weapons, why should they get more options when it’s currently balanced across game modes on Legendary Armor Access.Why don’t PvErs get over their selfishness of wanting everything handed to them. Oh see what I did there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:PVPers have legendary armor goalsWVWers have legendary armor goalsRaiders have legendary armor goalsPVErs who dont raid have no Legendary armor goals. For those being selfish, get over your own needs and think about those PVERS, they are just as important as the rest of us.Raids = PvE. The distinction you make has no other basis or meaning, aside from making your point look valid. Just like only dedicated WvW players will get their unique skin, only the dedicated PvE players will get theirs. In both cases it doesn't take any magical skill or talent that can't be acquired. It only takes dedication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Miellyn.6847 said:@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:PVPers have legendary armor goalsWVWers have legendary armor goalsRaiders have legendary armor goalsPVErs who dont raid have no Legendary armor goals. For those being selfish, get over your own needs and think about those PVERS, they are just as important as the rest of us.The thing here, Vesica, is this:PvPers get their legendary armor after playing PvP for a long time, dedicating a lot of time to it and trying to win and improve.WvWrs get their legendary armor after playing WvW for a long time, dedicating a lot of time to it and trying to win and improve.Raiders get their legendary armor after raiding for a "long" time, dedicating a lot of time to it and trying to learn and improve.PvErs who don't raid want to get their legendary armor... by pressing buttons randomly and dodging red circles. ??????????No one in PvP nor WvW get their legendary armor by pressing buttons randomly. They need to learn their game mode and how to play in it. This is what raiders also do.The majority of open world PvErs don't do any of that. They just go and do their events and their things without actually learning anything, because open world PvE is designed to be beatable without doing a real effort to play good. It's designed for casuals to be able to do it. And it's okay! But don't expect a legendary armor for that tiny to non-existent effort and learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriseggroll.8764 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I'm taking a break from WoW at the moment until the new expansion comes out and thought I'd take another look at GW2. The only reason I raid at all in WoW is because of LFR - I don't have the time for organized raiding but have done a bit of it in the past. If GW2 had LFD/LFR system I would totally play this game instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:PVPers have legendary armor goalsWVWers have legendary armor goalsRaiders have legendary armor goalsPVErs who dont raid have no Legendary armor goals. For those being selfish, get over your own needs and think about those PVERS, they are just as important as the rest of us.Raids are PvE so Pver’s have access to Legendary Armor, on top of All Gen 2 Legendary Weapons, why should they get more options when it’s currently balanced across game modes on Legendary Armor Access.Why don’t PvErs get over their selfishness of wanting everything handed to them. Oh see what I did there?I saw nothing, your giving the same raider glasses on argument, if you want legendaries, play niche content that has a particular gaming styler you dont enjoy. That was deliberately side stepping the point. GW is noty a raiding game, Rading in GW is niche, PVE players should have access to long term legendary goals as well, that takes just as long as wvw and pvp. Let it sink in, Raiding is niche in this game in its current format, The majority of the mmorpg world are not teenaagers we have been there and seen that a decade ago, repeating a boss over and over until its in your muscles is dull or annoying for most.chriseggroll.8764 is a perfect example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@STIHL.2489 said:@Feanor.2358 said:@Ohoni.6057 said:@Feanor.2358 said:Oh really? So if I want a nice company car with all its fuel paid I don't have to apply for a specific job that offers one, I could simply walk to my boss and demand one, on the sole basis that somewhere somebody offers it?No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that.And you are not doing the same?Nope.No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.Let me walk you through the differences.Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same?Actually you would be wrong.. because I did ask for that.. just Legendary Tier as opposed to Ascended.In fact, there was a whole series of topics about Other Paths to Legendary Gear, that I think got merged somewhere, maybe even with this one.And the raiders cried that it would not be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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