mortrialus.3062 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone.I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see.Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves.Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value. Say 2 million people liked the new BMW, that would be a terrible retention and thing to say if the previous model was loved by 10 million. Thus stating that 2 million people like the current BMW is of 0 value.It also isn't just "We lost our players" either. It was done to recapture the huge player base that was developed around Classic WoW Private Servers. These were players who didn't lose interest in the game but chose to play a more hardcore version of the exact same game. Vanilla, BC, or WotLK WoW is about the only MMORPG I can see myself transitioning to in the future. I was a big fan of it. I didn't like the shifts in direction I started seeing near the end of WotLK and in Cata and left. It's something I'm really passionate about. I really love this old Blizzcon talk how they approached raids in Vanilla WoW. I find a lot of truth to it about game design in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone.I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see.Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves.Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value.you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm.All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea.Just to point out though, people love nostalgia. It’s like classic Everquest, when I spent a summer playing in my late teens, people enjoy going back and reliving experiences of their first mmo, for most that would be Wow. Same thing if Gw1 got a content update, people would go back. People generally loving going back to simpler times and reliving those moments.Edit: This is also a human thing as well, how many of you would like to go back to a simpler time and relive those experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 @"TexZero.7910" said:Complain that they lack "Legendary" visuals if you want...Thanks for the suggestion, Tex. I might actually do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 For what it's worth, 'open world mode' would be far preferable to an easy mode 10-man instance.Again, it comes down to what the issue is behind raidsAre they inaccessible, or less accessible than other content? If that's the main concern, then solo mode, then open world mode, are the most effective solutions.I don't think the problem should even be solved. Raids should be inaccessible; that's what makes them a rewarding experience. But if you're going to try to solve the problem don't try to solve it in a bad way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 whatever, if people wanna do easy mode to practice with little to no rewards then who cares.and if people wanna do hard mode with increased rewards, who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Obviously I'm not, as I already said players in GW2 do the same. On a daily basis. You failed to provide a meaningful explanation what exactly do you expect them to get in GW2 that they do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynioch.1873 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone.I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see.Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves.Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value.you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm.All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea.so lets get this straight, millions clearly like easy mode, Guild wars has millions of players most of which play casually.. On top of this, Guild wars 1 had easy mode raids. all of this precedence and somehow the conclusion is that all those casual players would not like 10 man instances lol. This kind of self centered thinking is a poison that has polluted mmorpg for a few years now.Guild Wars 2 does not have millions of players. 1.5 mill at best I guess.GW2 never had an easy mode. There were normal mode and hard mode. Same as raids here. Please stop lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @Miellyn.6847 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone.I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see.Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves.Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value.you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm.All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea.so lets get this straight, millions clearly like easy mode, Guild wars has millions of players most of which play casually.. On top of this, Guild wars 1 had easy mode raids. all of this precedence and somehow the conclusion is that all those casual players would not like 10 man instances lol. This kind of self centered thinking is a poison that has polluted mmorpg for a few years now.Guild Wars 2 does not have millions of players. 1.5 mill at best I guess.GW2 never had an easy mode. There were normal mode and hard mode. Same as raids here. Please stop lying.Rather than accusing people of 'lying' maybe read a bit more, I was referring to WOW and ESO. Once again my ONLY point is that there is demand in the mmorpg genre for easy mode raid, therefore this is a precedent that would ofc apply to GW2 players - GW2 players are the same species you know. Raiders in WOW freaked out in the same way before WOTLK and ESO had easy mode from nearly day one so this drama never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Miellyn.6847 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone.I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see.Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves.Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value.you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm.All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea.so lets get this straight, millions clearly like easy mode, Guild wars has millions of players most of which play casually.. On top of this, Guild wars 1 had easy mode raids. all of this precedence and somehow the conclusion is that all those casual players would not like 10 man instances lol. This kind of self centered thinking is a poison that has polluted mmorpg for a few years now.Guild Wars 2 does not have millions of players. 1.5 mill at best I guess.GW2 never had an easy mode. There were normal mode and hard mode. Same as raids here. Please stop lying.Rather than accusing people of 'lying' maybe read a bit more, I was referring to WOW and ESO. Once again my ONLY point is that there is demand in the mmorpg genre for easy mode raid, therefore this is a precedent that would ofc apply to GW2 players - GW2 players are the same species you know. Raiders in WOW freaked out in the same way before WOTLK and ESO had easy mode from nearly day one so this drama never happened.I think he was referring to this passage of you:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone.I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see.Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves.Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value.you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm.All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea.so lets get this straight, millions clearly like easy mode, Guild wars has millions of players most of which play casually.. On top of this, Guild wars 1 had easy mode raids. all of this precedence and somehow the conclusion is that all those casual players would not like 10 man instances lol. This kind of self centered thinking is a poison that has polluted mmorpg for a few years now.You clearly stating that GW2 has millions of players AND that raids in GW1 were easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Miellyn.6847 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone.I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see.Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves.Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value.you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm.All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea.so lets get this straight, millions clearly like easy mode, Guild wars has millions of players most of which play casually.. On top of this, Guild wars 1 had easy mode raids. all of this precedence and somehow the conclusion is that all those casual players would not like 10 man instances lol. This kind of self centered thinking is a poison that has polluted mmorpg for a few years now.Guild Wars 2 does not have millions of players. 1.5 mill at best I guess.GW2 never had an easy mode. There were normal mode and hard mode. Same as raids here. Please stop lying.Rather than accusing people of 'lying' maybe read a bit more, I was referring to WOW and ESO. Once again my ONLY point is that there is demand in the mmorpg genre for easy mode raid, therefore this is a precedent that would ofc apply to GW2 players - GW2 players are the same species you know. Raiders in WOW freaked out in the same way before WOTLK and ESO had easy mode from nearly day one so this drama never happened.I think he was referring to this passage of you:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:My point was simply millions play easy mode raids, clearly players like it. Try reflecting on why you are so horribly terrifyingly offended by this really simple obvious truth.Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone.I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see.Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves.Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value.you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm.All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea.so lets get this straight, millions clearly like easy mode, Guild wars has millions of players most of which play casually.. On top of this, Guild wars 1 had easy mode raids. all of this precedence and somehow the conclusion is that all those casual players would not like 10 man instances lol. This kind of self centered thinking is a poison that has polluted mmorpg for a few years now.You clearly stating that GW2 has millions of players AND that raids in GW1 were easy.aha, GW does indeed have millions of players, I'm not referring to concurrent play. And i'm not saying millions of players will come from ESO and WOW, i'm saying there is a precedent for casual players enjoying casual raids in all AAA mmorpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @"vesica tempestas.1563"What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:i'm saying there is a precedent for casual players enjoying casual raids in all AAA mmorpg.Can we stop with this absolute non-sense already? Casual Raids are not what casual players are running in other mmorpgs, it's what all players are running to get their gear. To get high quality gear in order to go to the higher difficulty Raids afterwards. "Casual" Raids are part of the gear treadmill, that's why they exist, not to cater to casual players and give them specific content to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @maddoctor.2738 said:@"vesica tempestas.1563"What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.Edit: IF you want an equivalent in Guild Wars 2, it's like adding a NEW GEAR TIER for the current Raids, that is above Ascended/Legendary in quality/power, that is only available in the current Raids. Then they can add the casual version to the game that offers Ascended. It's rather simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. The precedent includes the complete package, which you are leaving out completely. "Casual" Raids being there to get gear for the higher tier Raids, and higher Raids having much better quality gear than normal Raids. THAT'S the precedent in other games, not that "Casual" Raids simply exist in other games. You are omitting half the truth, which makes your argument misleading and flawed at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @maddoctor.2738 said:@"vesica tempestas.1563"What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.That is actually a huge point which most people overlook. Yes if GW2 had a gear treadmill easy mode raids and an increased gear availability from in-game tasks (across all aspect of the game mind you) could be offset by regularly devaluing gear like WoW and ESO do. WoW is bound to have a new expansion hit in August. All current gear will become obsolete, as it has with every expansion before. On top of that between WoWs last expansion and the coming one the item level was increased in steps multiple times effectively resetting people's progress on equiping their characters multiple times throughout the last 2 years.Not sure that would mesh well with the established player base though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. It's not as much going out of our way to disprove or find holes, it's merely stating obvious lack in argument which you provide. There is reasons why different games are designed differently or with different approach to itemization. You might not want to take those into account, but for anyone in favor of general balance and healthy game design they are essential.That's not even getting into the fact that you are paying a subscription for ESO which people do not have to do in GW2 which would change the monetization drastically as well as available developer resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. The precedent includes the complete package, which you are leaving out completely. "Casual" Raids being there to get gear for the higher tier Raids, and higher Raids having much better quality gear than normal Raids. THAT'S the precedent in other games, not that "Casual" Raids simply exist in other games. You are omitting half the truth, which makes your argument misleading and flawed at best.I know this, we all know this. in GW2 its skins, in other games its gearsets, that doesn't invalidate my point about millions of player playing casually. If you guys want to beleive that GW2 is the onbly AAA mmorpg in existance that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. The precedent includes the complete package, which you are leaving out completely. "Casual" Raids being there to get gear for the higher tier Raids, and higher Raids having much better quality gear than normal Raids. THAT'S the precedent in other games, not that "Casual" Raids simply exist in other games. You are omitting half the truth, which makes your argument misleading and flawed at best.I know this, we all know this. in GW2 its skins, in other games its gearsets, that doesn't invalidate my point about millions of player playing casually. If you guys want to beleive that GW2 is the onbly AAA mmorpg in existance that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.Fine, so let's introduce a subscription fee to GW2, reduce the amount of gem store skins which need to get sold and put the saved resources to add more in-game luxury skins. Based on that get easy and hard mode raids with even more unique skins in for every difficulty people would want to play.Absolutely doable. So, who is up for a monthly GW2 subscription?This doesn't account for devaluing gear of corse, so we'll just remove acquired skins on a quarterly cycle forcing people to reacquire them just as they have to for gear sets in other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. The precedent includes the complete package, which you are leaving out completely. "Casual" Raids being there to get gear for the higher tier Raids, and higher Raids having much better quality gear than normal Raids. THAT'S the precedent in other games, not that "Casual" Raids simply exist in other games. You are omitting half the truth, which makes your argument misleading and flawed at best.I know this, we all know this. in GW2 its skins, in other games its gearsets, that doesn't invalidate my point about millions of player playing casually. If you guys want to beleive that GW2 is the onbly AAA mmorpg in existance that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.Fine, so let's introduce a subscription fee to GW2, reduce the amount of gem store skins which need to get sold and put the saved resources to add more in-game luxury skins. Based on that get easy and hard mode raids with even more unique skins in for every difficulty people would want to play.Absolutely doable. So, who is up for a monthly GW2 subscription?This doesn't account for devaluing gear of corse, so we'll just remove acquired skins on a quarterly cycle forcing people to reacquire them just as they have to for gear sets in other games.Strawmen, As i said, If you guys want to believe that GW2 is the only AAA mmorpg in existence that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:Strawmen, As i said, If you guys want to believe that GW2 is the only AAA mmorpg in existence that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.What I'm more curious is if these so called "Casual Raids" would exist in those other AAA mmorpgs if they weren't part of the gear progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. The precedent includes the complete package, which you are leaving out completely. "Casual" Raids being there to get gear for the higher tier Raids, and higher Raids having much better quality gear than normal Raids. THAT'S the precedent in other games, not that "Casual" Raids simply exist in other games. You are omitting half the truth, which makes your argument misleading and flawed at best.I know this, we all know this. in GW2 its skins, in other games its gearsets, that doesn't invalidate my point about millions of player playing casually. If you guys want to beleive that GW2 is the onbly AAA mmorpg in existance that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.Fine, so let's introduce a subscription fee to GW2, reduce the amount of gem store skins which need to get sold and put the saved resources to add more in-game luxury skins. Based on that get easy and hard mode raids with even more unique skins in for every difficulty people would want to play.Absolutely doable. So, who is up for a monthly GW2 subscription?This doesn't account for devaluing gear of corse, so we'll just remove acquired skins on a quarterly cycle forcing people to reacquire them just as they have to for gear sets in other games.Strawmen, As i said, If you guys want to believe that GW2 is the only AAA mmorpg in existence that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.No, but GW2 is the ONLY MMO which has no gear treadmill. Call it strawmen as much as you like does not make this less true. It's a reason why itemization from other games can't simply get copied over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563 said:@maddoctor.2738 said:@vesica tempestas.1563What you are missing is that in ESO veteran trials give far better gear than the normal version.As for the question, why does ESO have "normal" Raids, this is a no-brainer, that's where players farm their gear, in Guild Wars 2 we don't have a concept of gear treadmill, maybe, to satisfy all those World of Warcraft does it, and ESO does it, people they should add a true gear treadmill to the game. You know, to be like those games.i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content.Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist.look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. The precedent includes the complete package, which you are leaving out completely. "Casual" Raids being there to get gear for the higher tier Raids, and higher Raids having much better quality gear than normal Raids. THAT'S the precedent in other games, not that "Casual" Raids simply exist in other games. You are omitting half the truth, which makes your argument misleading and flawed at best.I know this, we all know this. in GW2 its skins, in other games its gearsets, that doesn't invalidate my point about millions of player playing casually. If you guys want to beleive that GW2 is the onbly AAA mmorpg in existance that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.Fine, so let's introduce a subscription fee to GW2, reduce the amount of gem store skins which need to get sold and put the saved resources to add more in-game luxury skins. Based on that get easy and hard mode raids with even more unique skins in for every difficulty people would want to play.Absolutely doable. So, who is up for a monthly GW2 subscription?This doesn't account for devaluing gear of corse, so we'll just remove acquired skins on a quarterly cycle forcing people to reacquire them just as they have to for gear sets in other games.Strawmen, As i said, If you guys want to believe that GW2 is the only AAA mmorpg in existence that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.No, but GW2 is the ONLY MMO which has no gear treadmill. Call it strawmen as much as you like does not make this less true. It's a reason why itemization from other games can't simply get copied over.soo, it works in 5 man instances in GW2, but lo, its impoooosssible to do it in 10 man instances lol. In any case the points was about precedence for desirability. We have ranged from WOW private servers to implementation to god knows what to find oh so many many many blockers for giving casual 10 man instances. Interesting right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @maddoctor.2738 said:@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:Strawmen, As i said, If you guys want to believe that GW2 is the only AAA mmorpg in existence that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.What I'm more curious is if these so called "Casual Raids" would exist in those other AAA mmorpgs if they weren't part of the gear progression.ofc instances need reward systems, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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