Untamed staff/dagger getting nerfed into 3....2....

[Arheundel.6451]

Calling it here and now, when it's not well-known yet( at least for the next few days).....it's a PvP bunker spec...and it's already -10 in CMC's book...it's a ranger bunker spec and that's like -100 on top. I give it 2 x balance patches top, to be gone by Christman, end of January at the latest. 

Taking bets in gold 2-5g

[kiwituatara.6053]

I don't play spvp~ just don't let it spill over to wvw 😏

[aymnad.9023]

Lets be honest this spec did not do anything. It could not cap alone, it needed help anytime it got + and it never got any kill.  Spellbreakers / condi zerker at least got things done around the map. Is it still going to get nerf? Probably. I would have prefered to still see a dps untamed but it clearly did not shine.

Edited October 29, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[EnderzShadow.2506]

Five years later and your posts haven't changed. Keep up the good work 😅

[Ehecatl.9172]

I hope not. It's my favorite PVP spec currently.

Don't make me go back to longbow!

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Bunker / Condi Druid with staff is still better in every way, and even that's so weak I'd like to see it played past g3.  

In addition, it's very hard to do damage on this type of build and be melee with all the CC and AoE condi puke (scourge, DH, etc.) that occurs. 

That is, with dagger you can't really take Shared Anguish--or you lose the CDs + condi dmg--so getting in close via pet swap is tenuous with no stability (and popping your elite to go in melee is bad).  Untamed simply doesn't have a defensive utility you can use offensively to go in melee (i.e.: Dolyak Stance).  

Condi untamed was ok in the 2v2 mini-season though; still hard countered by Reaper though.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 10/30/2023 at 5:46 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Bunker / Condi Druid with staff is still better in every way, and even that's so weak I'd like to see it played past g3.  

In addition, it's very hard to do damage on this type of build and be melee with all the CC and AoE condi puke (scourge, DH, etc.) that occurs. 

That is, with dagger you can't really take Shared Anguish--or you lose the CDs + condi dmg--so getting in close via pet swap is tenuous with no stability (and popping your elite to go in melee is bad).  Untamed simply doesn't have a defensive utility you can use offensively to go in melee (i.e.: Dolyak Stance).  

Condi untamed was ok in the 2v2 mini-season though; still hard countered by Reaper though.

See? What did I tell you?....

[Waffles.5632]

46 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

See? What did I tell you?....

I swear it feels like CMC dueled this exact spec, lost, and then went "Imma double the CD on dagger"

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

See? What did I tell you?....

Apparently, it warranted a hot fix and not even making a balance patch.

I'm not sure what's in CMC's water but clearly, he needs less WFH time with these changes as is sitting on the secret reddit / discord too much...

Edited November 7, 2023 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Beddo.1907]

Yeah who would have guessed a build with ~50% damage immunity/evasion uptime would be nerfed.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Yeah who would have guessed a build with ~50% damage immunity/evasion uptime would be nerfed.

Literally what...did you read what you typed?

Staff + D/D Untamed has...one evade lol.

Where is this ~50% evade uptime coming from again...we aren't mesmers...

[kiwituatara.6053]

48 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Literally what...did you read what you typed?

Staff + D/D Untamed has...one evade lol.

Where is this ~50% evade uptime coming from again...we aren't mesmers...

I thought he was being sarcastic lol

but yeah I’m so glad I don’t touch spvp

[Beddo.1907]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Literally what...did you read what you typed?

Staff + D/D Untamed has...one evade lol.

Where is this ~50% evade uptime coming from again...we aren't mesmers...

"Immunity/evasion" means both combined.
Dagger 4+bonus stamina regen trait+Vigor+energy sigils+Signet of Stone+Perilous Gift
Just chain everything whenever there is something to avoid.
On top of that you also get a lot of regen (which has 5% DR trait) and prot and 50% DR from Forest's Fortification.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

"Immunity/evasion" means both combined.
Dagger 4+bonus stamina regen trait+Vigor+energy sigils+Signet of Stone+Perilous Gift
Just chain everything whenever there is something to avoid.
On top of that you also get a lot of regen (which has 5% DR trait) and prot and 50% DR from Forest's Fortification.

Nothing that still can't be done--which is why I was confused.  

Can take same build but soulbeast, get access to 1/3 condi + direct damage every 40s with no hit requirement to reduce CD.  Then can take stout pets, etc. etc.

The only difference here is Perilous Gift which has way higher CD than something like Troll Unguent for a measly 3s immunity and on top has a health threshold as to not to waste it.  

Basically, if CMC was after nerfing bunker ranger then the dagger nerf is super left field--maybe I could see it if it had its original movement which was nerf a looong time a go with offhand training removal.  Ambush nerfs make somewhat more sense but the blinds on solar brilliance are way more important than the prot that was removed, etc.

tldr; I never saw this build as viable, and neither did meta battle (it's a great read)--and don't see how these nerfs do anything but hurt ranger overall when the intent was to nerf untamed bunker.  

Thankfully it's all for sPvP though and as many have said, no one cares.  

[HawaiianDreads.5473]

Honestly with all these kitten untamed nerfs I feel that the only viable and decent spec to play for ranger is Soulbeast. Which I don't mind but would rather play untamed, but yet again someone at anet have a hate kitten for ranger especially untamed.

[Ehecatl.9172]

Really does feel like Anet just doesn't want rangers to play anything that isn't longbow/greatsword. At this point, I don't think they want us to play Untamed at all either.

[psizone.8437]

8 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

At this point, I don't think they want us to play Untamed at all either.

At this point we need a whole balance patch dedicated to fixing untamed. 

The idea of it is great but in practice is so crap. Almost all of the utilities are unused in most builds, the 'unleashed power' cooldown in WvW/PvP is clunky since you can't double ambush like in PvE and 'enveloping haze' being a giant poison field that doesn't inflict poison is just weird.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:35 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Nothing that still can't be done--which is why I was confused.  

Can take same build but soulbeast, get access to 1/3 condi + direct damage every 40s with no hit requirement to reduce CD.  Then can take stout pets, etc. etc.

The only difference here is Perilous Gift which has way higher CD than something like Troll Unguent for a measly 3s immunity and on top has a health threshold as to not to waste it.  

Basically, if CMC was after nerfing bunker ranger then the dagger nerf is super left field--maybe I could see it if it had its original movement which was nerf a looong time a go with offhand training removal.  Ambush nerfs make somewhat more sense but the blinds on solar brilliance are way more important than the prot that was removed, etc.

tldr; I never saw this build as viable, and neither did meta battle (it's a great read)--and don't see how these nerfs do anything but hurt ranger overall when the intent was to nerf untamed bunker.  

Thankfully it's all for sPvP though and as many have said, no one cares.  

Untamed is my 'go to'  version of ranger to deal with extreme broken builds like vindi bunkers, cele harbinger and what not...those life steal are my lifeline in this otherwise game with abysmal balance. The fact now staff untamed is on mistbattle, it's unfortunate and these won't be the last....sadly ranger gets hit with nerfs whenever he gets something capable of changing the status quo. I can only pray all nerfs will remain in pvp, with staff possibly being the best ambush skill thx to ...the blind as you realized, you avoid being cc to death while using it

[EnderzShadow.2506]

On 11/7/2023 at 6:35 PM, Beddo.1907 said:

"Immunity/evasion" means both combined.
Dagger 4+bonus stamina regen trait+Vigor+energy sigils+Signet of Stone+Perilous Gift
Just chain everything whenever there is something to avoid.
On top of that you also get a lot of regen (which has 5% DR trait) and prot and 50% DR from Forest's Fortification.

You cherry picked utilities support your argument.

You know what, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. All of that 'chained whenever there is something to avoid.'
Then what? If a class cant contribute significantly in fights, then they still end up dying. Oh they liver longer, sure. But especially in this meta, they will still get crushed.
Being highly defensive and winning through fights of time and attrition isn't something that works with this meta where everyone has loads of CC and really high dmg.