2 easy solutions to the tower/keep hacker problem

[Chaba.5410]

34 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

 

A player complaint in our group party in Final Fantasy 14 Online chat with including a similar video where she and others witnessed a Thief Profession player teleporting through wall then porting Mesmer Profession players, to teleport the rest other players. 
 

Once again, don't believe anything, words, changes including of any "balance changes" until there is a complete restructure of Anet Company. Who does not promote, condone, orchestracte, support, promote or justifies 11 years of continuing hacks, exploits, cheating by Thief Profession.

I will believe Anet and encourage The Community to do the same, until Anet postes notes about, their Company restructing with including removing/reworking Thief Profession, Stealth Mechanic and Portal Entre.

The Entire Balance Team, Design Team Including Their Leaders Must Be Terminated and Replaced!!

Until then, don't bother caring for this exploit, hack and cheating game by a Company who allows, promotes and who continually defends it for 11 years+

 

“What you permit, you promote. What you allow, you encourage. What you condone, you own."

 

That video looks like BS.  That keep was blue.  Those people in that video capped it to red - it wasn't their keep as the person who made the video claimed.  It was just a keep on their borderland.  The person doesn't seem to know anything or is just really really bad at describing stuff.

Honestly just looks like a video made by someone who doesn't understand what's going on half the time and too easily calls something hacks.  Like that could have been a legit green enemy hiding inside when the keep flipped to blue, took down the lord, then waypointed because a larger red group entered and the green didn't think they had a chance at fighting over the ring.

Why do you keep posting this low quality, low information sludge?

Edited November 11, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Burnfall.9573]

11 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

That video looks like BS.  That keep was blue.  Those people in that video capped it to red - it wasn't their keep as the person who made the video claimed.  It was just a keep on their borderland.  The person doesn't seem to know anything or is just really really bad at describing stuff.

Honestly just looks like a video made by someone who doesn't understand what's going on half the time and too easily calls something hacks.  Like that could have been a legit green enemy hiding inside when the keep flipped to blue, took down the lord, then waypointed because a larger red group entered and the green didn't think they had a chance at fighting over the ring.

Why do you keep posting this low quality, low information sludge?

 

“If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinion for or against.”

[Chaba.5410]

11 minutes ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

“If you wish to see the truth, then hold no opinion for or against.”

OK and?  That's the standard teleport hack.  It's a client-side hack and has nothing to do with thief/mesmer portals or the exploits through terrain.  The person reported the player for botting as per instructions from Support.  The player hacking in this old video isn't even a thief and has nothing to do with your hate on that profession either.

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

OK and?  That's the standard teleport hack.  It's a client-side hack and has nothing to do with thief/mesmer portals or the exploits through terrain.  The person reported the player for botting as per instructions from Support.  The player hacking in this old video isn't even a thief and has nothing to do with your hate on that profession either.

 

Old video?  "Don't let your past, dicate your future"

look at my posts with other players posting such that. By the way, if it is your choice to be Anet White Knight of promoting and defending Exploits, Cheating, Hacking and Toxicity for consequative years and beyond...so be it!!

As I said before, I swear my Loyalty to a game company who does not Tolerate, Allow, Support, Justifies nor Defend Exploits, Cheating, Hacking and Toxic Bad Game Design.

Most Importantly, who invest and puts effot in the players experience before Profit.  

(by the way, Anet recently hired a new Marketing personal to promote the game for Financial Profit Gain, instead of hiring a new Balance, Deisgn personal, to invest in the player experience)

Anet values Profit over the players experience.

Anet will never care until we all leave. Leave the game to hackers and botters to play their game. 

 

Good Luck Defending Anet Instead Of The Players Experience

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

look at my posts with other players posting such that. By the way, if it is your choice to be Anet White Knight of promoting and defending Exploits, Cheating, Hacking and Toxicity for consequative years and beyond...so be it!!

This isn't a crusade.  It's just asking you for clarity, rationality, and logic - holding your so-called evidence up to higher standards.  It's an extreme disservice to getting actual exploits fixed when all you do is spread FUD and confuse the issues.

There is no insta-kill of NPCs because the client doesn't dictate those conditions.  There are so many things in this game that are made to be server-side to prevent hacking and cheating.  But that doesn't fit your narrative of Anet not caring about such things, does it?

Edited November 12, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

Good Luck Defending Anet Instead Of The Players Experience

This is extremely disingenuous.

The fixes for client-side teleport hacks are either spyware gets installed on your system or location becomes more server-side.  Do you not recall the player experience of when glider deployment was server-side and spyware was installed with the subsequent ban wave of false positives?  It appears you do not recall the uproar from a much higher number of players across the game than those who are affected by teleport hackers.  No, I don't believe you care about the player experience either.

Already players on slow connections experience big delays when trying to go through a keep or tower portal because that's server-side.  You want to make that worse for them and have them constantly rubberbanding just trying to run across an open field.
 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Hesione.9412]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:35 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

And how many other servers just call hack when its a havoc playing smart? Again I don't claim there are no hacks, but if players are going to doubt that roamers and havocs can't take on NPCs, sorry that was players not playing smart. Posters just muddy the situation with solutions that remove valid play which is why I will say no, you are encouraging sloppy play for the few that might be bad actors. Focus on the hacks, visit the other forums and send in tickets based on info gleamed there to support if you actually want fixes. But don't impact legit play, zerg play already has the advantage, no need to bolster them further. 

🙄 Yes, a thief using a skill exploit to get from outer to on top of a wall, and then from there to inner through a second wall is "havoc playing smart".

[Hesione.9412]

On 11/10/2023 at 2:15 AM, Jitters.9401 said:

Twice in one day I was able to solo cap two different towers in red bl while on my engineer.

All I did was stand behind a wall, cross my fingers and chant "please don't see me, please don't see  me, please don't see me".

Like, when I was in one tower, I already knew the enemy was going counter clockwise, on the map, so I just stowed my mech away, and stood behind a wall in the direction I was sure they were not going to go.

And twice it worked. The enemy left amd when the RI dropped,  I moved from my spots and took the towers. 

So I'd prefer not to lose this. It is easy to kite a tower lord on an engineer  throwing grenades, while running in circles.

We are not talking about players who stay hidden.

[Hesione.9412]

On 11/10/2023 at 11:02 AM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Yea the main problem is the reporting system being really bad and the fact it is very hard to actually click precisely on someone that's exploiting for obvious reasons.

But no doubt the report system is also abused by petty or ignorant idiots that clog up the system.

There is, of course, no excuse to let the same exploiters to run amok for years. It is to the point I already know who people are talking about even if I am not in the matchup (they're probably still on JQ). And barring that making barriers higher seems like pulling teeth.

Maybe we should claim it affects the economy somehow, that usually takes priority over everything else anyways. You can illegally jump into a tower? I sleep. Something in the gem store is mislabeled? Real kitten! Kick everyone out of WvW to fix it!

We had problems with one or two people who were on a server link with us, us being JQ. Our problems lie with a server on a sad large pool of water.

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

🙄 Yes, a thief using a skill exploit to get from outer to on top of a wall, and then from there to inner through a second wall is "havoc playing smart".

Ah the ease of mixing hacks and exploits and where this kind of thread fails. So is your issue hack or exploit? And yes, I play all classes, and thief but less than all the other classes. Exploits should be easier to address and agree should be handled. Hacks, require more research. 

I guess you have never had players whisper you that you hack after you retook a tower after they failed to scout an objective and you took it back. Again I am not saying that there aren't both exploits that need fixed and hacks, but have seen to many times when players throw that out first. A better option on the forums is to capture in video the exploit points to get fixed. Video of the hacks to get more awareness, and submit info from the other forums about the tools that are used, but not in the forums since its against ToS.

But to doubt that roamers and havocs can't take out objectives...not sure what to say there. Does your server not have any havocs? Maybe have a conversation with them on how/what/where and what they do and what they face. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

I don't think anyone posting here likes exploits let alone hacks. But offering options that limit gameplay is not going to solve either. I think mixing them is also not going to help since they require different solutions. 

What these mixed threads do is just embrace differences in level of game play which rangers from roamer to zerg and class to class which just muddies the conversation without even addressing server to server let alone region to region. Nothing wrong with all of us being stubborn interweb kittens but it doesn't help in finding a fix versus limiting legit game play. So focus reporting from the other sources the hacks via the tools available(email/tickets)  and post and report here the exploit examples that can be fixed in game. 

[Sansar.1302]

Hacks in WvW are real and if not common alot of ppl use them.

Would not be supprised if about 5% to 10% use them.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i think players confuse legacy map design and hacks alot, for example a thief with staff can take nearly any objective by just jumping over the doors or walls. hacking is when you see someone under the ground, or flying through the air, not when they soloed objectives because of outdated collisions.

 

(not to mention that stealth usually makes it unneccesary to do such things in the first place.)

 

unfortunately the developers seem scared to touch the wvw maps any further after past complaints about fixes making things worse. at the very least unbroken doors and walls need to emit a shield up into the sky that cover the structure vertically (affecting enemies only). you would think they would have done this after warclaws and engineers with rifle could leap into structures from higher elevations, but they instead just lightly patched each affected area.

 

the main downside is the enemy zerg couldn't jump out to retreat and would have to go back through an opening. oh on, they might have to fight!

Edited November 12, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Hesione.9412]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Ah the ease of mixing hacks and exploits and where this kind of thread fails. So is your issue hack or exploit? And yes, I play all classes, and thief but less than all the other classes. Exploits should be easier to address and agree should be handled. Hacks, require more research. 

I guess you have never had players whisper you that you hack after you retook a tower after they failed to scout an objective and you took it back. Again I am not saying that there aren't both exploits that need fixed and hacks, but have seen to many times when players throw that out first. A better option on the forums is to capture in video the exploit points to get fixed. Video of the hacks to get more awareness, and submit info from the other forums about the tools that are used, but not in the forums since its against ToS.

But to doubt that roamers and havocs can't take out objectives...not sure what to say there. Does your server not have any havocs? Maybe have a conversation with them on how/what/where and what they do and what they face. 

I'm at the point where I guess you're not reading what I wrote. Watching a thief use a weapon skill to get into fire keep, and then watching them use the same weapon skill to get into inner, up a wall, is exploiting. I really don't care about the difference between hacks and exploits: both are cheating and against the ToS. The end result is the same - the player ends up in a place they shouldn't be, if the game had been played as intended.

The exploits are all on YouTube. Anet has been repeatedly given videos of how to do the exploits, by multiple players, but nothing is done. I am not going to post a link because that is against the rules of the forums.

You can quit with the "it was a good player playing the game".

[SweetPotato.7456]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:54 PM, Justine.6351 said:

The multiple people cap idea isn't actually a bad one. Just make it 2 for towers/keeps. The people "practicing solo capping" are probably the ones exploiting into objectives.

Its 2023 not 2015.

I used to cap towers and keep alone, I also know other players who play alone, would cap tower and keep alone on Red Borderland, they never go to other map. Just a couple of example that people do actually play alone, just because some #%$@#$% is hacking, you think it is a good idea to make the game not fun for these players who actually enjoy playing alone.

Perma ban the hackers is the only way to fix this.

Edited November 12, 2023 by SweetPotato.7456

[Justine.6351]

18 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

I used to cap towers and keep alone, I also know other players who play alone, would cap tower and keep alone on Red Borderland, they never go to other map. Just a couple of example that people do actually play alone, just because some #%$@#$% is hacking, you think it is a good idea to make the game not fun for these players who actually enjoy playing alone.

Perma ban the hackers is the only way to fix this.

Maybe they should go pve if that is what they prefer.

[SweetPotato.7456]

9 minutes ago, Justine.6351 said:

Maybe they should go pve if that is what they prefer.

Just because hacker/exploiters exist in the game mode, doesn't mean someone can come up with bad ideas that affect those who is enjoying the game mode the way they choose, playing alone. It is how the game is build and advertised since the very beginning.. Anet says the whole game can be solo. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

22 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

I'm at the point where I guess you're not reading what I wrote. Watching a thief use a weapon skill to get into fire keep, and then watching them use the same weapon skill to get into inner, up a wall, is exploiting. I really don't care about the difference between hacks and exploits: both are cheating and against the ToS. The end result is the same - the player ends up in a place they shouldn't be, if the game had been played as intended.

The exploits are all on YouTube. Anet has been repeatedly given videos of how to do the exploits, by multiple players, but nothing is done. I am not going to post a link because that is against the rules of the forums.

You can quit with the "it was a good player playing the game".

I am sorry you don't see the difference and missed the points that were made. Let me try again in order.

Limiting legit game play is not a solution. Agree or disagree?

Fixing exploits is a priority. Agree or disagree? 

Fixing hacks takes longer and should be done but exploits are easier and therefore should be done sooner. Agree or disagree? 

Does that make more sense? Agree with fixing exploiting and hacks, but not for solutions that just aid the zerg while punishing legit small scale play for legit play.

[TheGrimm.5624]

23 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Hacks in WvW are real and if not common alot of ppl use them.

Would not be supprised if about 5% to 10% use them.

I think I would go with 1-2% percent. Which is the reason why I question actions that would limit 98% of the rest of the player base versus saying spend the time to research the exploit or hack and deal with it versus impact legit game play.  

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 11/11/2023 at 10:07 PM, Hesione.9412 said:

We are not talking about players who stay hidden.

But you did. That is the issue some of solutions just punish smart versus lazy play in its issue to catch 2% of the gameplay. Address the exploits and hacks versus the other 98%. Make more sense now?

[Hesione.9412]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:27 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Maybe some servers should zerg less and use more scouts. The number of times that zergs respond to a breach and then don't actually check for people still inside is quite amazing. I even callout my own server and links there. They assume that the scouts will stick around to do all the repairs and to track down targets left inside while they run off and then cry foul how did we lose that after we just cleared them out. I am not saying we don't have exploits nor there aren't bad actors that should be addressed, but the number of times that players throw out the hack card is still much higher than the actual hacks.

 

On 11/12/2023 at 8:31 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Ah the ease of mixing hacks and exploits and where this kind of thread fails. So is your issue hack or exploit? And yes, I play all classes, and thief but less than all the other classes. Exploits should be easier to address and agree should be handled. Hacks, require more research. 

I guess you have never had players whisper you that you hack after you retook a tower after they failed to scout an objective and you took it back. Again I am not saying that there aren't both exploits that need fixed and hacks, but have seen to many times when players throw that out first. A better option on the forums is to capture in video the exploit points to get fixed. Video of the hacks to get more awareness, and submit info from the other forums about the tools that are used, but not in the forums since its against ToS.

But to doubt that roamers and havocs can't take out objectives...not sure what to say there. Does your server not have any havocs? Maybe have a conversation with them on how/what/where and what they do and what they face. 

In both the comments you made above, you have stated that people don't know what a hack/exploit is. People are making suggestions because there's no way to deal with them. That some suggestions are down the not-so-good end is a reflection of how difficult it is to counter players who are cheating. Also, it may be only 2% of game play, however having a t3 keep flipped by a single hacker/exploiter in under 30 seconds has a large impact on scoring. It's miserable to play against, especially after time has been spent tiering up those keeps. It's very hard to counter exploits through terrain, unless you want to keep 5 people (it is difficult to kill a terrain hacking player with less than 5 people of all their movement options for the cheater) in each keep to try to intercept the player. And that's if you can even target them, which you can't do if they are inside the terrain.

Hence, I can see where the OP is coming from with their suggestion.

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

 

In both the comments you made above, you have stated that people don't know what a hack/exploit is. People are making suggestions because there's no way to deal with them. That some suggestions are down the not-so-good end is a reflection of how difficult it is to counter players who are cheating. Also, it may be only 2% of game play, however having a t3 keep flipped by a single hacker/exploiter in under 30 seconds has a large impact on scoring. It's miserable to play against, especially after time has been spent tiering up those keeps. It's very hard to counter exploits through terrain, unless you want to keep 5 people (it is difficult to kill a terrain hacking player with less than 5 people of all their movement options for the cheater) in each keep to try to intercept the player. And that's if you can even target them, which you can't do if they are inside the terrain.

Hence, I can see where the OP is coming from with their suggestion.

Nice try. No I said I don't want to restrict 98% of valid game play with 2 percent that's not. Sorry I didn't make it clear after the last post. Fix the exploits first. Fix the hacks next.

Since I seem to need to additional addendum, don't limit valid game play in light of the others. Does that make sense?

[ArchonWing.9480]

The problem is people are suggesting the worst of both worlds.

It is not the most efficient solution. The laziest solution is just to add more invisible barriers like they always do. Proposing the laziest solution is also the one that is most likely to work because it doesn't require thought.

It penalizes legit players for properly hiding/soloing towers.

Most importantly, it doesn't really stop hacking. It only "solves" one specific problem, and doesn't actually solve it completely. It is good that structures should be designed to avoid exploits to begin with, and it's good that cheaters should be banned. Anything less is just defeatism. To me this is like saying you don't have enough money to buy food, so the solution is to stop eating food.

I mean sure we can't ban every hacker. But we surely can't forsee every single exploit that could happen in this spaghetti code of a game either. And surely, when people are blatantly hacking for years on the same account, than lifting a finger every few months or so would be a massive improvement.

I know some of you are probably thinking. "Well, maybe this mode is going into maintenance mode, so we might as well burn all the hatches and assume they will not make further changes". That might be true, but if we are to that point, they're probably not going to bother with that either, and that's really your cue to find another game. You don't have to ruin mine.

I think people just don't understand these sorts of people well enough. People that are willing to take the time to hack into towers are willing to spend their time to think of something else, and as we've seen in this thread in this kind of war, a lot of folks aren't able to keep up. And at the very least banning them will force them to buy new copies of the game! (No, they won't stick to f2p because degens always crave every advantage possible. Your typical f2p  alt account occasional spy amateur is but a drop of water in the grand scheme of thing. ).

Ultimately, the problem is  people are always trying to change the game around their own narrow viewpoint of the game. They don't think of, or are simply not capable of taking towers without a zerg so they don't think twice about removing it. They also don't comprehend the mindset of trolls and other lowlifes. This is how people think naming troll tact pullers would somehow be a deterrent, when trolls would actually crave that sort of attention. Basically, stop balancing the game around yourself.

Edited November 13, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480