Is Distortion/Invulns healthy?

[Sovarica.4368]

Just wondered since the burst damage has soared and distortion seems to be a pretty big clutch an a lot of peoples play styles shouldn't it have a counter or a good strategy to deal with it or at least some sort of negative status after using it? It feels way too strong or am I wrong?

Edited November 7, 2023 by Sovarica.4368

[Waffles.5632]

1 hour ago, Sovarica.4368 said:

Just wondered since the burst damage has soared and distortion seems to be a pretty big clutch an a lot of peoples play styles shouldn't it have a counter or a good strategy to deal with it or at least some sort of negative status after using it? It feels way too strong or am I wrong?

it's not distortion itself, it's access to distortion. Virtu ruined the classic distortion balance which is as follows:

For Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage, they need 3 clones for max distortion, base distortion is only 1 sec while full clone distortion is 4 secs. So, the Mesmer both needs to be in combat since clones delete themselves out of combat, AND have 3 clones up, AND then they have to use distortion before their clones die to AOE. So this limited access to distortion, balances the distortion out.

Virtu ignores the above completely, hence the lack of counter play. This is nothing new, pretty much all EoD specs break traditional balance designs, and this was intentional by Anet.

 

 

 

[Sweetbread.3678]

Duration invulns that can tank infinite hits in general are unhealthy and terribly designed. The fact that Mesmer doesn't have to channel theirs is just icing on the bullkitten cake.

[Sovarica.4368]

Ooops, meant distortion/invulns lol, my bad

[Exciton.8942]

1 hour ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Duration invulns that can tank infinite hits in general are unhealthy and terribly designed. The fact that Mesmer doesn't have to channel theirs is just icing on the bullkitten cake.

I disagree. I think short duration invul is good design of the game so that you don't just straight up die in 1vX.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Exciton.8942

[Sweetbread.3678]

55 minutes ago, Exciton.8942 said:

I disagree. I think short duration invul is good design of the game so that you don't just straight up die in 1vX.

Maybe if they were extremely limited to the point of actually requiring skilled use, had some sort of counterplay besides "wait for this bullkitten to end", or required some sort of defensive stat investment to reach their current power level. Nobody should feel entitled to surviving 1vXs without some actual investment in being able to survive. Right now you can run certain classes/specs as full glass and barely have any loss in survivability because their baked in active defenses are so strong. Even worse most invulns scale infinitely; distortion is just as strong vs a 50 man wvw zerg as it is in a 1v2. It's just terrible game design.

[deathdealer.2197]

Its oke to have some easy classes that are extremely forgiving imo it makes pvp accesible.

From an esport perspective is not but designing from an esport perspective will just help to put spvp in the ground. Thats why I think its fine to have easy classes like slb, virt, thief and the likes. They arent the skill cap but can come a long way with little to no effort or brain capacity

[doozer.7063]

Generalizing propaganda is not healthy either.  Distortion is for sure not per se bad and unhealthy and unskilled.

For Distort/invuln it depends in what context it is put in. Does the class have weaknesses and is with that well balanced around that strength, it is fine. As someone pointed out Distort on Virtuoso is a big fail. Distortion on other mesmer specs is fine. Other classes are balanced differently so they either have no access to invuln/ stealth/ instant teleports for good reasons or have a weaker form of it (means they need to channel and cannot cast during invuln).

Indeed EOD breaks a lot of those basic balance aspects (Willbender/ necro mobility creep as one example, giving a Warrior/ Ranger teleports without adding the needed weaknesses at other places etc)

I think Ele was on the edge. Giving ele invuln a channel clearly was not necessary for glass builds like fresh air (also fresh air is a bad mechanic by itself) and maybe not even for support ele depending on context of meta and general strength of the build. But it was an ok nerf for all the side node bunker stuff builds on ele (including old core dd cele ele). Still nerfing the bunker stuff and unhealthy aura stuff instead ele invuln would have been better and more fair considering the whole ele class basic design (eles low hp pool for example is also, not only but also, because of the access to unchanneled invuln.) In regard on how elites on ele break the core design with overfloated defense in other areas the channel nerf appears fine in current days. But again healthier elite spec designs would have been way better than nerfing core invuln of ele.

Edited November 7, 2023 by doozer.7063

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Mes f4 should be channelled, like every other invuln in the game.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Oh it's about to get real unhealthy real fast when the super defense buffs for Mesmer arrive.

[Gundam Style.8495]

6 hours ago, deathdealer.2197 said:

Its oke to have some easy classes that are extremely forgiving imo it makes pvp accesible.

From an esport perspective is not but designing from an esport perspective will just help to put spvp in the ground. Thats why I think its fine to have easy classes like slb, virt, thief and the likes. They arent the skill cap but can come a long way with little to no effort or brain capacity

If those are the easy access classes, why do most players hug necro and guard?

 

[deathdealer.2197]

15 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

If those are the easy access classes, why do most players hug necro and guard?

 

You can count those in with them, necro with the second health bar and guard in general is just easy to play

[dead.7638]

Yes, take it away and I’d gladly take whatever tf, warrior/ele/ranger specs use as they have way more sustain and still hits harder consistently.   Mesmer burst has a ton of set up where as other specs push one skill for 8-12k dmg on a much lower cd.   But, sure you know best.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

12 hours ago, Exciton.8942 said:

I disagree. I think short duration invul is good design of the game so that you don't just straight up die in 1vX.

Straight up dying in a 1vX should be the norm, not the exception. 

3 minutes ago, dead.7638 said:

Yes, take it away and I’d gladly take whatever tf, warrior/ele/ranger specs use as they have way more sustain and still hits harder consistently.   Mesmer burst has a ton of set up where as other specs push one skill for 8-12k dmg on a much lower cd.   But, sure you know best.

Can I have the distortion they take away from yall on power berserker? I'll give it a good home.  

Edited November 7, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

Immune + still being able to attack is fking rediculous game design. Anybody remember WOW paladin? the entire community openly raged and mocked paladins for its immune+heal to full, becuase all players knew that it simply broke a fundemental rule of pvp. Gw2 gives that kitten to multiple classes?

 

Traditionally, the only thing that had immune+ability access was fking raid boss 😜

Edited November 7, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Dickinson.7368]

Invul should exist in the first place.
If one cant dodge/time their block skills they should get /damage.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Don't be a Gohan, just dodge.

[dead.7638]

What’s that thing that makes warrior go full immune and then if hit basically full hp again, not op in anyway.   Distortion is clearly the winner.   Ele easily chains invuls by just switching between skills with very little cd.   Distortion is clearly the winner.   Rev can port and attack while invul while dodging around any los to counter back.   Vindy just dodges like x3 and hits while landing on you.  Clearly…. Should I go on?

[dead.7638]

Oh mb, apparently defiant stance is not a thing?   Try next time to actually add to the conversation.   The fact people are still coping over distortion when each class has its own invul/evades/blocks and in circumstance better invul over all is major coping in 2023.    Zzzzzzz

[Eddie.9143]

It's good how it's designed on core Mesmer.  Its bad how it's designed on signet distortion mirage with mirrors on distortion lol. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Eddie.9143

[Last Crab.6054]

Mesmers complain the most about thief, but everyone wants thief nerfed. Guess its mesmer time. i wont be playing, i hope you suffer

[doozer.7063]

6 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

Mesmers complain the most about thief, but everyone wants thief nerfed. Guess its mesmer time. i wont be playing, i hope you suffer

You saw the topic and body-swerved it perfectly 👍😆

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

Oh mb, apparently defiant stance is not a thing?   Try next time to actually add to the conversation.   The fact people are still coping over distortion when each class has its own invul/evades/blocks and in circumstance better invul over all is major coping in 2023.    Zzzzzzz

That requires you to keep hitting them for it to full heal them, so stop hitting them... Revs have a similar heal on Glint.

Mesmer has the most chainable invulns via distortion. Unlike other true invuln mechanics they are allowed to use skills during that time.

Endure Pain, Defiant Stance, and Infuse Light are not true invulns. Endure Pain, and the proc from Savage Instinct still allow condition damage and CCs to take effect. Infuse Light and Defiant Stance still allow CCs to take effect. What Anet should do is turn a lot of the Distortion effects into Blur effects so conditions at least continue to tick.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 hours ago, dead.7638 said:

What’s that thing that makes warrior go full immune and then if hit basically full hp again, not op in anyway.  

Their heal? The one nobody takes because if their opponent has two brain cells and doesnt hit them they're effectively robbed of a heal?

Sorry friend, not making the case you think you are.

Beat by @Lan Deathrider.5910 but... a skill that (by demonstration in this thread) relies on people not reading what it does is no competitor with a skill that allows you to retroactively correct mistakes.

Not arguing that distortion is unfair on the face but its kind of weird when people try to defend it by comparing it to other defensives and come up short.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Jhule.7230]

Remove the excessive health pools on all the other classes and remove all other channelled blocks and invulnerabilities and evades apart from dodge, then you can remove distortion that lasts for 1 second because most of the time you wont have enough clones to get the full distortion amount anyway because most people would kite or 1shot the clones. In other words the dev's arent going to rebuild all the classes just for you because of a 1 second distortion.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Jhule.7230