Are we really comfortable paying for unfinished expansions?

[Puck.3697]

14 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Everyone wants more money, but the success of a company is based on their business plan and meeting expectations, not necessarily making more money. A book that made half the money it made for it's first year five years later would be making less money and still be a rousing success. Expectation in business really is everything

Well yeah. 

Anet just cut its company employee count in half to make their profits better, it doesnt change the fact this clearly has a effect on content production and limitations 

As I stated. 

A company either shrinks its product to reduce its costs to make a larger profit. 

Or make the product more expensive while retaining its productivity. 

Anet choose to run with option A. But jts had effect which was shown when LS was cut as the company stated theyre studio is now too small to be able to develop expansions and living world.

 

[Vayne.8563]

6 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

Well yeah. 

Anet just cut its company employee count in half to make their profits better, it doesnt change the fact this clearly has a effect on content production and limitations 

As I stated. 

A company either shrinks its product to reduce its costs to make a larger profit. 

Or make the product more expensive while retaining its productivity. 

Anet choose to run with option A. But jts had effect which was shown when LS was cut as the company stated theyre studio is now too small to be able to develop expansions and living world.

 

Not recently right? You're talking about years ago I assume? And they did say most of those people weren't even working on Guild Wars 2. They canceled projects and let people go. Some of those people moved back to Guild Wars 2.  So what does a layoff of people working on other projects have to do with anything.

I love this chery picking of facts you do.  

You have theories but no proof. You make statements you can't back up and state them as fact. You're not running for office are you.

[kharmin.7683]

33 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Not recently right? You're talking about years ago I assume? And they did say most of those people weren't even working on Guild Wars 2. They canceled projects and let people go. Some of those people moved back to Guild Wars 2.  So what does a layoff of people working on other projects have to do with anything.

I love this chery picking of facts you do.  

You have theories but no proof. You make statements you can't back up and state them as fact. You're not running for office are you.

Yeah, I can't even engage with that poster anymore. 

[Gravitron.7982]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:16 AM, Tanuki.4603 said:

People have sour taste after this patch beacuse the story is less than old living world, we don't even get full map like old living world and strike got barely any work done besides a copypaste mechanic from a previous strike, and is extremely easy even for pug groups.  We've paid for an unfinished expansion without any feature and it only shows now how empty this patch will be, since we cannot even work further to progress our legendary armor like with the last patch, and the wait for the next update is twice as it was for this. Let's not forget the last fractal realease bugged for months with kittened up scaling as it was a scrapped strike.

Now, wow released their 10.2 patch yesterday, skim thru this page linked below to see how much content they add:

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dragonflight-patch-10-2-guardians-of-the-dream-overview

Its an absurd amount compared to GW2, one patch is way more content than entire soto with 4 updates, they get tons of cosmetics available ingame, tons of customization, meaningful storylines. the story is 10 hours of gameplay + raid and side quests twice the amount of that.

 

Are we really comfortable with the current ANet approach being the right future for GW2? Paying for unifnished expansions that bring very little every 3-4 months? There has to be a better way to deliver content.

I agree, people paid full price for only a quarter of the value. 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

2 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

I agree, people paid full price for only a quarter of the value. 

If by full price you mean 25 bucks, still a better deal than 70 for COD:MW3 lel

[Puck.3697]

13 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You have theories but no proof. You make statements you can't back up and state them as fact. You're not running for office are you

Well it obviously weren't just new projects. 

They cut Living world Sotry because they litterally stated they cant work on more then one thing at a time due to team size limitations. 

Yet could in HoT and PoF, both which had raids to juggle aswell. 

Clearly something changed if they lost the ability to do this.

And yes while projects were cuts and in those figures of lay offs, we know some of those employees who were moved onto those projects orginally worked on GW2. 

Likely not all, but a good chunk were. 

So they still are involved in the number of pwople who worked on HoT / PoF compared ro what came next. 

SoTo has less content then PoF and HoT. Strikes or not, it just does lol,

And even if you say "well SoTos a 1 year expansions where these were 2" not even 2 expansions SoTo sized, would match these expansions in content size. 

Now yeah, the development has changed, their content drops are now spread out instead all at once, however as a WoW player. I'm already very used to this. 

And tbh for what it's worth, this expansion did not rly launch that much less content then WoW did. Lol, Dragonflight launched a rare named farm, 4 maps, 1 story line, 8 dungeons with a new race/class exclusive and a raid. 

And for a entire year it didn't move past that they added 1 NPC which spawns a rift every 30minutes, 1 NPC that opens alternate timeliness portal event every 2 hours, and a caverns which was just another rare farm and 1 more story line. 

So to be fair, you cant rly be that angry at SoTo,. Its profit margins maybe lower then WoWs, but its content launches aren't that far apart in content. 

Regardless:

To the point, 

Your saying "you cant use numbers or comparitives of entertainment" etc etc, but anyone saying SoTo is worth less then 20 pound is basically doing the same thing. 

My point was never hatred towards GW2, my orginal point was, GW2 is a budget game. And IT IS. No sub no microtransactions 1 off payments, in all terms and everything else, if your looking to buy ur kid a game but can't afford continous upkeep. Gw2 is the best option right now to hand them. 

For all intents and purposes. Gw2 is a budget game, because irs rhe mmorpg on the market right now that'd break ur bank the least. 

Anyone trying to say SoTo isnt worth £20. Puts too much weight on £20. Your asking for a triple A game for £20 and thats not how it works. 

And sure Anet likely priced their box based on

1) what they think it would sell for. 

And 2) what it competes with. 

But that doesnt change the fact, GW2 is sub free, a minimum of £10 pound cheaper then every alternative, and the only real game that does vast amounts more content drop then it is FFXIV. 

I've played WoW I do play WoW, there's a reason i suddenly need a second game. And here's a hint (it's cause I ran out of content 2 weeks in). 

I played ESo. And It launches less content then GW2. I played that necromancer expansion. And litterally I completed it in a day. Lol, 

Rift, never had much content past core game, when it flopped. 

Tera and wildstar are shut down and weren't doing alot either. Blade and soul only rly just see more p2w options added at a time lol. 

SoTo is worth £20. If players want more rhen SoTo in terms of content per Year, monetization has to change. 

Yes the game runs a profit. But right now it's basing that expected income on costs/profits of the current condition, if your asking a game to increases Costs (development of more content) by default their profits have to be higher to achieve the same profit.

Anet know alot of people would go mental, if they priced a expansion at £50. So they don't, so they have a glass ceiling to whst they can do. They cabt make everything top end. Because they will run a loss spending too much money on the game to then price it at £20. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Puck.3697]

12 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Yeah, I can't even engage with that poster anymore. 

Tbh I'm glad, I rly cba with the concept of "20 pound expansion should have gone soo far". Its ridiculous imho. 

£20 buys squat. And tbh I'd still say SoTo is worrh more then £20 😂. If the game was capable of developing triple A content. Itd price itself to compete, it aint there because anet know it isnt the case. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

35 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

Well it obviously weren't just new projects. 

They cut Living world Sotry because they litterally stated they cant work on more then one thing at a time due to team size limitations. 

Yet could in HoT and PoF, both which had raids to juggle aswell. 

Clearly something changed if they lost the ability to do this.

They rename the Living Stories , into Content , because it would be silly to "charge extra money" for  new people like in EoD , to buy all episodes .

Lets hope he "new player expiriance" place them into the "new expanions" , rather than having to redisgn the old content .

 

Well raiders always blame that the company for the downfall of the instanced content and the casuals not liking it , while the company tries to creates find other solutionsto restart it  ?.

Why shouldn't the company "fully embrace" that role , by doing nothing  , after the "P2W Relic fiaco" that they "deserved it" ?

They can always  re-train casuals and Teapot will guide them , once he plays others games after 1-2 years

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Puck.3697]

8 hours ago, Gravitron.7982 said:

I agree, people paid full price for only a quarter of the value

You beleive SoTo, has only £7 odd pound of content?. Lol. 😂 you haven't even seen all the content to state this....

[Izzy.2951]

Well after their new game is done (unnanounced project) maybe there wont be any new expansion. So you might be thankfull to pay for reused stuff than none at all like what happened to gw1.

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

They rename the Living Stories , into Content , because it would be silly to "charge extra money" for  new people like in EoD , to buy all episodes .

Lets hope he "new player expiriance" place them into the "new expanions" , rather than having to redisgn the old content .

 

Well raiders always blame that the company for the downfall of the instanced content and the casuals not liking it , while the company tries to creates find other solutionsto restart it  ?.

Why shouldn't the company "fully embrace" that role , by doing nothing  , after the "P2W Relic fiaco" that they "deserved it" ?

 

I'm ngl, we have yet to see this happen, because living world stories added alot in terms of content. And I doubt expansion content will match the size of HoT with living world stories assosisated. 

In even WoW the majority of players don't engage with end game systems lol. No game has the majority in instanced content regardless of budget set, they don't blame instanced content on casuals. They blame the company for not dedicating enough into the budget of development for it. 

But WoW has the opposite, shouting how WoW doesnt dedicate enougu to open world while blaming favoritism for raiders/m+ players to why they don't get it. 

That's natural every game has a audience unhappy about something. Talk to a ffxiv raider you will see they have the same argument as gw2 raiders about their game. 

Gw2 aint p2w, I prolly werent playing at the time this happened. But I doubt it really was p2w. 

If there's one thing I do know, gw2 ain't p2w. Lol. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Izzy.2951 said:

Well after their new game is done (unnanounced project) maybe there wont be any new expansion. So you might be thankfull to pay for reused stuff than none at all like what happened to gw1.

If the new games good enough that won't matter, bsczuse we just move to the next game. New game launches are good for many reasons. 

[Inssengrimm.7924]

This thread basically boils down to:

"Im too used to being ripped-off by all other companies so i find it weird when they actually respect my time, resources, money and still manage to give me content, so ill compare it to the most ilustrative example of an abusive parasocial relationship between company and customer as it is World of Warcraft."

If anything, SOTO is a turning point once more for the game - They are setting up the basis for a more streamlined, consistent and efficient patch-cycle which will eventually allow them to focus and give up even better content... Which is what World of Warcraft is doing in a way with their "Saga" and what Final Fantasy XIV is famous for a decade already, an actual patch structure that does wonders when resources are limited or you are just in an abusive workplace that does crunching.
 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

10 minutes ago, Alexander Dragonfang.1759 said:

This thread basically boils down to:

"Im too used to being ripped-off by all other companies so i find it weird when they actually respect my time, resources, money and still manage to give me content, so ill compare it to the most ilustrative example of an abusive parasocial relationship between company and customer as it is World of Warcraft."

If anything, SOTO is a turning point once more for the game - They are setting up the basis for a more streamlined, consistent and efficient patch-cycle which will eventually allow them to focus and give up even better content... Which is what World of Warcraft is doing in a way with their "Saga" and what Final Fantasy XIV is famous for a decade already, an actual patch structure that does wonders when resources are limited or you are just in an abusive workplace that does crunching.
 

With the other side boiling down to:
"I'm too used to Anet being overly generous with content by constantly developing content in a single 30€ purchase for over 2 years with no extra mandatory payments I find it weird when said developers actually ask me to pay more for the content, so I'll go on and complain Anet is greedy and compare what I get for 25€ that to WoW"

Only 2 games games - other than GW2 - gave me a lot of enjoyment for a long time, one is Red Orchestra 2, bit over 1k hours for ~30€ and that game added no extra content. The other game is Warframe, which we both know how that game works. 

For the whole price of GW2 since release you could buy maybe 2 full priced games.

If I add up the money I spent on WoW to play that game for about a year...~180€. I spent less than that on GW2 and I have two accounts...

[Sugar Min.5834]

What's the point of this argument? You can never outnumbered hence 'out-reasoned' the white knights in this forum. Nothing ANet did was ever wrong. ANet is perfect, their heroes 🦸‍♂️🦸‍♀️

Edited November 19, 2023 by Sugar Min.5834

[Passerbye.6291]

Almost all of us have complaints about the game here, the difference is that some of us are fine with paying for exactly what anet said they'd deliver. We knew we would get the expansion content across multiple patches, so we aren't surprised to receive what they said they'd deliver, shocking I know.

If you are someone who had no idea how the expansion content would be released, that's entirely on you for not informing yourself.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Sugar Min.5834 said:

What's the point of this argument? You can never outnumbered hence 'out-reasoned' the white knights in this forum. Nothing ANet did was ever wrong. ANet is perfect, their heroes 🦸‍♂️🦸‍♀️

If telling people that Anet laid out the cycle of the expansion release is being a white knight I'm certain that word has lost its meaning. Then again, the difference between a "white knight" and a "doomer" is whether we are before or after the expansion release.

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Alexander Dragonfang.1759 said:

This thread basically boils down to:

"Im too used to being ripped-off by all other companies so i find it weird when they actually respect my time, resources, money and still manage to give me content, so ill compare it to the most ilustrative example of an abusive parasocial relationship between company and customer as it is World of Warcraft."

If anything, SOTO is a turning point once more for the game - They are setting up the basis for a more streamlined, consistent and efficient patch-cycle which will eventually allow them to focus and give up even better content... Which is what World of Warcraft is doing in a way with their "Saga" and what Final Fantasy XIV is famous for a decade already, an actual patch structure that does wonders when resources are limited or you are just in an abusive workplace that does crunching.
 

Well I can agree with you on WoW. 

When u take a step back and reliese 99% of WoWs content is repeating the same dungeons for a slightly increased ilevel. 

And you reliese the game actually really don't give you alot for 184 pounds a year, if we boil DF down. 

You got 8 new dungeons, 3 new raids, 7 new lands 2 solo instance based content (rifts and the elemental thingys). With a dream overlay on 1 zone at a time. 

Everything outside of that is repeating the same content for identical rewards at a higher ilevel each season. 

You could make a argument DF is smaller then HoT content wise. 

Here's the thing. 

SoTo is a change in how contents dropped. People dont have what they used to have and with living world story cut no one really knows how much content there is to look forward to. So reactions by default will be wild. 

I think for what SoTo is, you get alot for £20, I've paid £20 and now I get a year of content drops and active updates on a game with limitless access. 

My messages may come across negative and that isnt due to gw2 nor its direction. Its simply:

Gw2 is the cheapest game on the market. It has no p2w features it has no predatory tactics, and offers some of the most consumer friendly monetization on the market. 

So seeing people seriously state

"I want more, but I dont wanna pay more" annoys the hell out of me 😂 if players wanna sit down and say "we want expansions to be bigger. To be more ground breaking" then the follow up discussion needs to be how much are we willing to pay for that. 

And maybe I allow my emotions drive responses that aren't fully thought out. But its a better discussion then "I want more and I wanna pay nothing". 

Saying rhe game makes money, isn't a response. Because yes the game makes profit. On its current development cycle. But to widen that requires more employees, a larger studio a bigger team and payment for more man hours. Now in that hypothetical situation u have to account for the simple fact that increasing development also increases Costs, and in that you have to then think "will the game still stand at a profit". 

We have seen parts of what is to come, and tbh I think players make a god kitten bargin and a half with this game, it churns out plenty to do, the content drops are pretty equal with mmorpgs that charge a hell of alot more, 

There's lots to critic, but I dont think what we get for our money is one of them. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Forum Moderator.3074]

Greetings. locking this thread as it has already run it's course.