Rifle Mesmers Direct Allies to the Nearest Emergency Exit

[Mevelios.4809]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

What the people who originally made alacmirage did wrong was giving it for free. Slot staff, you get alacrity and can still do full damage. So nerfs had to be applied to keep damage down. Linking it to a trait instead, though, meant that it could compete with DPS traits and both versions could coexist.

That's the thing. Mirage mantle is on a line which consists in having a few more mirrors to shatter every 50s (Desert distortion), in raising up your axe numbers (Mirrored axes) or in improving all your ambush skills (the subject here, Mirage mantle). So long as you don't intend on using the axe as your main tool, that's one choice down; the other one, Desert distortion is something I use only in niche occasions such as a damage spike on bosses that often phase out -IF not using the axe-, quick boon stripping on a power profile or in open world to quickly dispatch the trash. In the end, that makes Mirage mantle quite free to take as long as you disregard the axe, and that's easy to forget about it when chaos still offers extra condi stats, including double the dose of condi damage +CD reduction when wearing... a staff.

That's also the main obstacle IMO to why can't we possibly have quickness on a support mirage. It would likely be tied to Mirage mantle, making it possible to reinstate an e-spec providing both buffs; something we couldn't stand because of the previous chrono experience for years. Otherwise, it should replace either of the remaining two traits - take away Mirrored axes, anyone playing the axe will obviously notice the sudden drop in performance; take away Desert distortion, I'm unable to imagine how could it even be introduced. On shatters like the chrono? Not exactly original but it works; on another ambush, mirage mantle-like trait? Lack of originality but there's functionality again (and possibly easier to manage to accomodate PvP uses); on illusion summoning? That could combine well with the healer/support gameplay we have right now, although hard to balance.

12 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

The way I see it is if you want to play a support version of any Espec all you have to do is slap Inspiration in there and there you go. Build your support class. Now we can talk about how good it is, how bad it is, but all of that should be kept inside the Inspiration line, not in the Chaos line, not in the Mirage line, but that seems to be where it's all bleeding into.

Fact is, the game being forgiving, any support role (healer included) is expected to provide either alacrity, either quickness. There's no factual need of a massive healer (unless in a raid whose members joyfully jump into every AoE 'cause "better red than dead", until they realize they're not mutually exclusive 😆) so inspiration is not enough on its own. It's all about boons in general first, healing second; what I agree on is that right now the chaos spec is a mess, sharing both support and condi traits (the latter making for some competition between dueling, chaos & illusions specs). But you can't just slap inspiration and call it "support" precisely because our base mechanics and utilities neither are healing, neither are providing the ordinary boons expected from a support build - we're that unique little snowflake providing unusual extras that're often welcome, yet take more than one spec in our build to fit into the "support" category. The game has evolved since inception, our core utilities didn't endure that change well - hence the necessary rework that's been done so we could catch up with today's state of the game!

12 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Let [chronomancers] be the best support spec they can be with their wells of boons and repeating shatters. [...]

I'll reiterate here that I don't WANT the mirage to be a support spec. I want it to be the ambushing, spike damage that it was originally meant to be.

I must've missed when that was said by the team; whether they did present the e-spec as such or not, that's what chrono does already especially using the greatsword. If your argument for taking away supportive abilities from the mirage consists in "it already exists on another e-spec", here it is: chrono already performs that spike damage, so following that idea why should it be imported onto mirage? Virtuoso follows closely too on this same theme. Unless I misread it, this is the paradox I do not understand in your logic unless you'd want to take away chrono bursts at the same time; that's effectively taking away ways of playing and trapping e-specs into single profiles (not to mention virtuoso, which without its damages could simply be removed - it can be a massive healer, yet is completely disregarded because of the lack of quick/alac). Something I'd be against because enjoying one e-spec's mechanics does not necessarily mean enjoying every profile associated to it, and vice-versa; I like support roles but dislike chrono again because of the HoT/PoF years (no, it wasn't only about alacrity, it was alacrity AND quickness at the same time), I like mirage but dislike the staff. Yet I still consider mesmer in general as my favorite; hence, innovating and giving diversity a chance's my jam!

Obviously, I like the idea of a possible support mirage. If mirage ended up as exclusively a damage e-spec, then that'd make some weapons the only go-to options (something we already see, using only axe/X or staff - the latter largely thanks to Chaotic potency); if chrono was the only one able to provide quick/alac, then support mesmer would only be tied to a single e-spec (something I already see in my guilds with chronoheal only, mirage being ignored, virtuoso being obviously thrown to the trash because no alac/quick). Without even taking away the possibilities for variety, in practice players already dive into single ways to play because there's more efficiency in one profile or the other, then call it "meta". Let's not take these possibilities away. Let's keep some variety so everyone can try their hand at ways of playing differing from the meta, as long as the loss doesn't utterly gut your contribution - so everyone can have fun playing what they like, because performance is NOT the only way to measure the "fun" value!

12 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Honestly, I look at the chronomancer and wonder WHY anyone would want an alac mirage when Split Second + Flow of Time + Stretched Time would seem to me to do a lot better than Chaos Vortex + Mirage Mantle.

Clones work the same way on both e-specs (inherit base stats but not runes/sigils), so it all falls down to the frequency of each tool to produce alacrity: chrono shatters or staff ambushes. A chrono cannot shatter as often as a mirage can pull off an ambush, hence extra alac on phantasms on one side and alac duration reduced on ambushes on the other. One does power damage this way, the other condi damage - it might be easier thanks to phantasms on chrono to keep it up (and mostly because condi builds immediately jump onto Midnight and Domination signets, thus reducing the number of Deception utilities) but in the end both e-specs can keep the alacrity cap that's 30sec. The key word here is balance, and that works! Some people, hence, do not mind having a mirage over a chrono, as long as 100% alacrity uptime is ensured (which doesn't mean always standing at 30s alac, merely having it constantly regardless of duration)!

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

Mirage is in such a weird spot. Whatever it used to have in the condi DPS department, Virtuoso stole it and does it way better with ranged piercing. It tried to dip into support, but whatever tiny Alac it could do is now completely overshadowed by Chrono by a mile. The only thing it does better than Chrono at being support is that it could comfortably maintain 25 Might stacks group-wide far easier, but that might change soon with the Rifle's introduction. It has nothing else going for it as a support because of its anti-synergy with Shattering when compared with the other 2 specs.

Normally with other professions Mirage would be the Quick spec, and this balance works great for other professions. But that of course is already covered by Chrono. Its current niche being "that tanky spec that could eat champs for breakfast" is definitely very useful for certain situations, but not really useful in an end game setting where being tanky has little to no use. Well, maybe in WvW but I've heard Mirage is non-existent there too.

It's absolutely functional as a class, but beyond flavor reasons where you play it because you like the class, there's not an inherent functional reason why you should pick it. 

[draxynnic.3719]

13 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Mirage is in such a weird spot. Whatever it used to have in the condi DPS department, Virtuoso stole it and does it way better with ranged piercing. It tried to dip into support, but whatever tiny Alac it could do is now completely overshadowed by Chrono by a mile. The only thing it does better than Chrono at being support is that it could comfortably maintain 25 Might stacks group-wide far easier, but that might change soon with the Rifle's introduction. It has nothing else going for it as a support because of its anti-synergy with Shattering when compared with the other 2 specs.

Mirage used to be good on confusion fights, but when they made yet another confusion rebalance that stripped away even more of the damage on skill activation, it lost that role. Personally, I always thought that switching up what you brought based on the boss was a good thing. It does also have some minor utility when personal mobility through Jaunt is worthwhile for mechanics.

15 hours ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

That's the thing. Mirage mantle is on a line which consists in having a few more mirrors to shatter every 50s (Desert distortion), in raising up your axe numbers (Mirrored axes) or in improving all your ambush skills (the subject here, Mirage mantle). So long as you don't intend on using the axe as your main tool, that's one choice down; the other one, Desert distortion is something I use only in niche occasions such as a damage spike on bosses that often phase out -IF not using the axe-, quick boon stripping on a power profile or in open world to quickly dispatch the trash. In the end, that makes Mirage mantle quite free to take as long as you disregard the axe, and that's easy to forget about it when chaos still offers extra condi stats, including double the dose of condi damage +CD reduction when wearing... a staff.

That's also the main obstacle IMO to why can't we possibly have quickness on a support mirage. It would likely be tied to Mirage mantle, making it possible to reinstate an e-spec providing both buffs; something we couldn't stand because of the previous chrono experience for years. Otherwise, it should replace either of the remaining two traits - take away Mirrored axes, anyone playing the axe will obviously notice the sudden drop in performance; take away Desert distortion, I'm unable to imagine how could it even be introduced. On shatters like the chrono? Not exactly original but it works; on another ambush, mirage mantle-like trait? Lack of originality but there's functionality again (and possibly easier to manage to accomodate PvP uses); on illusion summoning? That could combine well with the healer/support gameplay we have right now, although hard to balance.

You're right in that the trait mostly hits axe builds, but axe builds were pretty much always how you were supposed to maximise DPS as a mirage, so that's essentially acting as intended. 

Personally, I always thought it should be a trait in the GM line that competes with Infinite Horizon. I don't think Dune Cloak has ever really taken off, so they could replace that without complaint, I expect. It might also force them to decouple alacrity generation from having clones, so the build would work better at maintaining alacrity without a target (something that chrono is bad at), and if they made it just grant alacrity on ambushing (or even on dodging) regardless of weapon, that'd remove the reliance on double staff.

Edited December 10, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Crey.5263]

On 11/24/2023 at 9:02 PM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Well the 2 skills shown so far aren't CC skills unless exploding the Beacon also Dazes.

 

The remaining skills are the clone, phantasm, and auto attack.

I don't really expect any of those to be CC skills.

 

The CC is normally on the other skills.

Mesmer has so much cheap and plentiful access to dazes, i wouldn't limit yourself to the rifle stun.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

On 12/9/2023 at 9:03 AM, Mevelios.4809 said:

There's no factual need of a massive healer (unless in a raid whose members joyfully jump into every AoE 'cause "better red than dead", until they realize they're not mutually exclusive 😆) so inspiration is not enough on its own.

Oh man, there's a lot that I need to respond to and I'm still formulating my thoughts on all the responses I got but this one...

Then why did we just get a rifle that ONLY HEALS AND NOTHING ELSE!?

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Oh man, there's a lot that I need to respond to and I'm still formulating my thoughts on all the responses I got but this one...

Then why did we just get a rifle that ONLY HEALS AND NOTHING ELSE!?

Because some heals are necessary. The point that was being made, though, is that heals in PvE are almost never SO important that it's worthwhile to have a healer where all it does is heal, even if that healing is twice as much as the conventional boon healer. That experiment has been run, and is the reason tempests and druids have access to alacrity now.

Mesmer getting rifle plus the trait buffs might prove to be overkill, but historically having a healing weapon is usually important to making healing builds work in the long term.

[Mevelios.4809]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:34 PM, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Then why did we just get a rifle that ONLY HEALS AND NOTHING ELSE!?

Because what we're missing are ranged heals, only chrono has any thanks to the wells (which may trigger too late with a 3sec delay). A mirage could move around using Jaunt, but forget it on a virtuoso unless using Blink. Also, rifle 3 offers many stacks of might which are otherwise lacking unless resorting to Mantra of pain (mostly meaningless for a support) or Relic of the Midnight King (forces you to waste your CC); the shield's Tides of time work well in that regard, however we've got no proper mainhand support weapon, only the scepter may have remote use for its clone summoning ability.

Let's not forget the rifle was merely a beta, not necessarily the end product. We only got to test the base functionalities it may offer, but not the finite buffs/healing values!

Just as @draxynnic.3719 mentioned above, when it came to massive heals there already were droods & tempests since HoT, which in the end didn't prove interesting enough in actual play as soon as professions other than chrono were given the ability to provide quick/alac. Hence, I reiterate - a massive healer without some key boon isn't necessary; you can run one in a premade group with friends & guildies who can cover whatever you lack, as long as you don't care about performance (and it doesn't take much for most of the content)! Inspiration allows making a healer, but not the kind of healer players want because the game is forgiving enough not to need one that dishes out huge green numbers.

[Mell.4873]

On 12/11/2023 at 6:34 AM, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Oh man, there's a lot that I need to respond to and I'm still formulating my thoughts on all the responses I got but this one...

Then why did we just get a rifle that ONLY HEALS AND NOTHING ELSE!?

The real power of this weapon from my perspective it the ability to swap to it during boss phases that have no targets and inflict alot of damage. 

Even on a DPS weapon swapping for Mesmer builds might net an extra 1-3k at most. Having a backup Rifle to allows you rescue people, supplement healing, 1200 ranged dps if you are run sword or axe main-hand. 

Edited February 5 by Mell.4873

[ShadowKatt.6740]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

The real power of this weapon from my perspective it the ability to swap to it during boss phases that have no targets and inflict alot of damage. 

Even on a DPS weapon swapping for Mesmer builds might net an extra 1-3k at most. Having a backup Rifle to allows you rescue people, supplement healing, 1200 ranged dps if you are run sword or axe main-hand. 

The only problem I see then is that Anet seems to have this mentality that everything needs to be useful everywhere. Every profession needs to fill every role and needs to be in every place. To quote Welcome to the Internet, A little bit of everything, All of the time.

And then we have this. I'm gonna take your word on it because that sounds like Raid/Strike talk, and I don't do them so I don't have any experience there. But in OW? Useless. WvW? Uh....maybe? I doubt that firing this thing into the middle of a big zerg is going to make any difference at all. Maybe we're talking death by a thousand cuts (or rather, life by a thousand band-aids?), but I know I wouldn't feel very useful. PvP? Again, I can't say because I don't PvP but in single PvP you're going to get slaughered with it, and even in sPvP....this thing is not going to save you or anyone else from some roided out warrior berserker. So...I'm listening. How is this helping you in your setting? Or did I completely miss the mark on this and read it the wrong way?

[phokus.8934]

"Singularity Shot can be harder to utilize in non-organized play. We added a flash effect when the portal is opened to catch other players’ attention and hopefully alert them to take it"

This will still be missed and not provide a lot of value with it being a one-way portal.

Edited February 14 by phokus.8934

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

"We were happy to see positive feedback around the weapon"

[ShadowKatt.6740]

30 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

"We were happy to see positive feedback around the weapon"

I feel like someone should remind them that while lying isn't a crime, it's still a sin.

[FlowingWater.6193]

48 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

I feel like someone should remind them that while lying isn't a crime, it's still a sin.

Looking at the way they phrased the post, and given that the only people who seemed to like it out of the box are those doing instanced content, perhaps this weapon was never meant to be used outside of such content? Basically a weapon for which the intended use-case is strictly raid/strike/fractal/dungeon? That's the only way I can see this making sense

[Curunen.8729]

Yeah reading "hopefully alert them to take it" is quite hopeful lol.

It would be nice to have another source of mobility on a weapon beyond phase retreat and mainhand sword leap/ambush. We should have a personal one way portal option on rifle 5, as the cooldown is long and won't break the game.

Hopefully Journey is better now, though I still hate the idea of a low cooldown ground targeted clone summon... Will have to see how it plays but unless heal mirage becomes a thing, I'm not the intended audience and won't be using it.

Edited February 14 by Curunen.8729

[Geronmy.3298]

1 hour ago, FlowingWater.6193 said:

Looking at the way they phrased the post, and given that the only people who seemed to like it out of the box are those doing instanced content, perhaps this weapon was never meant to be used outside of such content? Basically a weapon for which the intended use-case is strictly raid/strike/fractal/dungeon? That's the only way I can see this making sense

And those playing Chronomancer, because it has no use outside of it.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

1 hour ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

And those playing Chronomancer, because it has no use outside of it.

And only Heal Chrono at that. So ONE use for ONE build of ONE spec. This thing is so niche even Lloyds of London wouldn't take odds on it.

[Geronmy.3298]

1 hour ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

And only Heal Chrono at that. So ONE use for ONE build of ONE spec. This thing is so niche even Lloyds of London wouldn't take odds on it.

For the first time we share an opinion.

Rifle so bad it's making mortal enemies become friends.

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 2/14/2024 at 2:56 PM, Geronmy.3298 said:

And those playing Chronomancer, because it has no use outside of it.

HOW DARE YOU we have rifle ambu.................we have mantr..........we have power mira..........

well dang

[draxynnic.3719]

On 2/17/2024 at 6:21 PM, HotDelirium.7984 said:

HOW DARE YOU we have rifle ambu.................we have mantr..........we have power mira..........

well dang

They were so proud about the graphics for the rifle ambush that will never get used.

[HotDelirium.7984]

22 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

They were so proud about the graphics for the rifle ambush that will never get used.

sadly the other skills are reused and recolored effects.  Have you seen 3 clones and you using the ambush? Insanity Kaleidoscope.

[Curunen.8729]

For rifle 5 I don't see why it can't be:

- first cast, place portal with pulsing barrier/resistance that player can use to port to you, single use.

- flip over, eg within 5 seconds, collapse portal and blink to that location doing aoe heal/cleanse or something.

Adjust cooldowns appropriately, change barrier/resistance/heal etc to whatever makes most sense.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

2 hours ago, Curunen.8729 said:

For rifle 5 I don't see why it can't be:

- first cast, place portal with pulsing barrier/resistance that player can use to port to you, single use.

- flip over, eg within 5 seconds, collapse portal and blink to that location doing aoe heal/cleanse or something.

Adjust cooldowns appropriately, change barrier/resistance/heal etc to whatever makes most sense.

It can't be because they didn't want it to be. They could have done basically ANYTHING ELSE and it would have been better than what we got. But this is what we got. This is what they -wanted- it to be.

If it were any more deliberate I think we could call it sabotage.

[mirage.8046]

If only downed allies were able to take your portal, my god, that would make bringing rifle a game-changer. 

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 2/20/2024 at 2:31 PM, mirage.8046 said:

If only downed allies were able to take your portal, my god, that would make bringing rifle a game-changer. 

but still more of a wvw thing. In pve by the time we ground target, cast it and trigger the portal we could have already ran to them and begin rezzing.

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:30 AM, Curunen.8729 said:

For rifle 5 I don't see why it can't be:

- first cast, place portal with pulsing barrier/resistance that player can use to port to you, single use.

- flip over, eg within 5 seconds, collapse portal and blink to that location doing aoe heal/cleanse or something.

Adjust cooldowns appropriately, change barrier/resistance/heal etc to whatever makes most sense.

full agree, scourge has a portal skill that gives might to whoever goes through it so why not a heal on whoever goes through it maybe? now that's kinda cool, your squad see the portal and they go through it 12345bam heals! xD