Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Warrior

[HeliosMagi.9867]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Then bake the adrenaline gain into staff directly.

Or into one of Berserker's grandmaster traits, since right now none of them are relevant to support build. Like Eternal Champion, make it grant Adrenaline when granting boons to allies in PvE, since that trait is otherwise useless in PvE.

Edited November 30, 2023 by HeliosMagi.9867

[HeliosMagi.9867]

Just got back from testing out Quick Heal Berserker in some Strikes, and for someone that doesn't normally play support, I found it very fun and I didn't have much trouble keeping my group alive. My main issues with it were needing to Ally Target to maintain Protection, and inability to generate sufficient adrenaline without making substantial sacrifices to my utility. My suggestions are the same as everyone above me, make Staff 3 provide Protection regardless of who you target, and give Support Berserker some way to generate adrenaline without needing to resort utilities or Rage signet.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

45 minutes ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

Or into one of Berserker's grandmaster traits, since right now none of them are relevant to support build. Like Eternal Champion, make it grant Adrenaline when granting boons to allies in PvE, since that trait is otherwise useless in PvE.

No. This is something that needs to be in a minor trait, in in addition to the current effects of a major trait in a core traitline. This is too important to the success of support to put into an espec.

[HeliosMagi.9867]

8 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No. This is something that needs to be in a minor trait, in in addition to the current effects of a major trait in a core traitline. This is too important to the success of support to put into an espec.

Counterpoint, putting a 'healing/boons generate adrenaline' trait into Tactics or Discipline could result in Power Quick Berserker abusing it to be able to output way too much DPS, even more so than what they're doing now. Putting in Eternal Champion would be an effective way to balance it, since that way it couldn't be used alongside Bloody Roar or King of Fires. The other viable support e-spec, Bladesworn, already has a healing-to-flow trait in the form of River's Flow, so I do see why Berserker can't have something similar.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

Counterpoint, putting a 'healing/boons generate adrenaline' trait into Tactics or Discipline could result in Power Quick Berserker abusing it to be able to output way too much DPS, even more so than what they're doing now. Putting in Eternal Champion would be an effective way to balance it, since that way it couldn't be used alongside Bloody Roar or King of Fires. The other viable support e-spec, Bladesworn, already has a healing-to-flow trait in the form of River's Flow, so I do see why Berserker can't have something similar.

Then take the DPS out of Tactics, it's the support line anyway, the damage being there has always been an oddity.

[HeliosMagi.9867]

14 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Then take the DPS out of Tactics, it's the support line anyway, the damage being there has always been an oddity.

Then you have the different problems of the adrenaline trait occupying the same column as another trait that support warrior REALLY wants. Replace Leg Specialist with it, then you can't run Soldier's Comfort, replace Warrior's Cunning and then you can't run Shrug It Off or Empower Allies. The problem to solve with a support adrenaline trait is it needs to be put somewhere where it won't interfere with other support traits, but at the same time won't enable degenerate interactions for other builds. I suggested Eternal Champion because it's a  'safe' place to put it.

Edited November 30, 2023 by HeliosMagi.9867

[Yerlock.4678]

Outside of ally targeting needing general improvements, and bugs with staff, the weapon needs general improvements with blast finishers. 

In truth though, it's not that staff is bad or underpowered, but rather that the rest of warriors support utilities still needs more love. Tactics needs more love for support, and shouts also.

Most of all though Warrior needs a massive banner rework to bring a real fun support spec into the picture. Right now there's not enough skills on the class that does support related things, outside of shouts and the occasional gimmicky banner. More skills should have a support feature to help give warrior the tools it needs to be as good as a guardian. We can't just rely on nothing but shouts.

[ZEUStiger.3590]

17 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Remove the Regen either from the F1s or from the AA chain, it is not needed in both places. Either but barrier on the AA chain, or boons like vigor, swiftness, stability on the F1s while keeping the regeneration on the unchanged skill.

I'm against this suggestion. I was also saddened by F1's simplicity initially, but I think I understood the reasoning behind it. They wanted to make this build usable by both berserker (who has access to F1) and bladesworn (who doesn't). Therefore they couldn't place anything unique on F1, lest it would be inaccessible to bladesworn. So instead they put banal stuff there like regen and burst healing (and immob, which is a nice little bit of utility, but not something that would make-or-break a build). Healzerker would spend more time spamming F1 in berserk mode, so its utilities would probably be at least partially comprised of Rage skills. Healsworn, on the other hand, will not be able to access staff F1, but will be able to compensate for it by spending more time autoattacking (offsets the regen from F1) and by using Shout utilities which synergize better with bladesworn's ammo traits (offets the burst healing from F1).

I hope this will help you understand this weirdness in the design.

Edited November 30, 2023 by ZEUStiger.3590

[Jzaku.9765]

32 minutes ago, ZEUStiger.3590 said:

I'm against this suggestion. I was also saddened by F1's simplicity initially, but I think I understood the reasoning behind it. They wanted to make this build usable by both berserker (who has access to F1) and bladesworn (who doesn't). Therefore they couldn't place anything unique on F1, lest it would be inaccessible to bladesworn. So instead they put banal stuff there like regen and burst healing (and immob, which is a nice little bit of utility, but not something that would make-or-break a build). Healzerker would spend more time spamming F1 in berserk mode, so its utilities would probably be at least partially comprised of Rage skills. Bladesworn, on the other hand, will not be able to access staff F1, but will be able to compensate for it by spending more time autoattacking (offsets the regen from F1) and by using Shout utilities which synergize better with bladesworn's ammo traits (offets the burst healing from F1).

I hope this will help you understand this weirdness in the design.

The response you're going to get is some drivel about Bladesworn needing a complete rework from the ground up or needs to be removed.

I totally agree with you that the design intent was to shift most of the power budget into Staff's 1-5 skill instead of the burst skill so Bsw can use it. That said, the Auto chain could stand to do more than just give regen - just look at Rev scepter in this same beta that is granting Barrier to allies on auto. And that's a weapon going on what is already one of the strongest support classes in the game. 

[Squigglez.1236]

I do like the concept of an offensive healer but I was finding it hard to even make a build to test this. Even after the update warrior doesn't have much support utility to compliment this. In addition to that bladesworn not having access to the heal from the burst, and since spellbreaker can't give alacrity or quickness, it felt like it was exclusively for zerker. I'm mostly just making an obligatory post as I did with rev scepter that this game wasn't made with forcing people to click allies in mind. No changes have been made to make it play any better and it's even worse that it's just a single skill. It feels bad because it is bad.

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, DarkLancer.1902 said:

Who came up with this? The Warrior is a profession designed around the concept that it doesn't use magic & doesn't need to. Yet here we are, giving the Warrior a MAGIC HEALING STICK. The kit does NOT jive with the Warrior concept, and, depending on how much of a rules-lawyer you are, could even be said to break the game's lore. I could see this being a Spellbreaker thing -- in fact, it makes much more sense that the Sunspears would have hacked the heads off their spears and used the hafts as quarterstaves, with healing powers, to restore the imbalance of magic caused by Joko, than hacking the heads off their spears & using the heads as daggers. (The severe deficiencies in the dagger weapon kit are something to discuss at a different time.)

On top of what others have said on this topic:

GW2 warrior is essentially the heir of every W/X variation in GW1. That's not to say that every variation of warrior/x in GW1 is represented by warrior in GW2 - it isn't - but anything within that concept space is a legitimate source of inspiration to draw from. So warrior is always going to be primarily a martial combatant relying on physical strength and toughness, but it's entirely kosher to do that and have a bit of magic as that extra push or as a means of doing something that just can't be achieved by hitting harder.

Staff looks to me like it might be drawing somewhat from healing dervish, which makes sense since warrior and dervish were common pairings and had a lot in common, and healing dervish was very much a "heal while smacking someone around with a scythe" build.

[ilabsentuser.8726]

You are right about the weapon being quite strong in the light of what you mention. However you forget that in the case of warrior it has to be because it doesnt have the same amount of support other classes/professions have with their utilities and traits. So the weapon has to cover pretty much all that by itself. Also, healing honestly is not that big of a deal as boon upkeep, as long as you have enough healing its ok, but you do need to be able to upkeep your boons. So, yes, staff puts up some good numbers, but only because it has to do so since they aren't coming from many other places. Not saying it is perfect as it is though, it needs way more testing in the field to see exactly how good or bad it is, but just mind that you can just take the weapon into account. The utility and traits of the profession are very important as they are also part of the kit.

[Provocative.3561]

Having a blast on staff spellbreaker. Obviously, Staff 5 is a little bonkers animation wise, but works as intended. And staff 3 should give all buffs to Ally’s you pass through. Currently if you target an ally with staff 3, it’ll have some odd interactions. In this way if you rush into a fight or a general direction with staff 3 your ally’s still gains the buffs. The fun part about spellbreaker staff support, it offers a block that dazes and marks targets. What would help spellbreaker support without pushing away the boon strip spellbreaker allow spellbreaker players to choose between boon strips and giving aoe stability & prot with their burst skill via traits so say spellbreaker lands a full counter burst, it could instead of cripple, it could aoe heal and give prot. Also allowing the trait shield master to trigger on full counter burst. So say I stand in front of an ally I can reflect projectiles in the same way staff 5 does, maybe within a radius of the spellbreaker. Warrior already has quite a bit to offer in terms of a niche support type. I do agree with a lot of people that support warrior needs a blast field somewhere.. my suggestion is making the staff burst skill be a blast whilst keeping aoe heal it offers your teammates. Just some thoughts.. 

[Myror.7521]

Idk where i do write bugs in so im writing it in here:

Bullet Catcher: The block of the skill seems to be buggy. sometimes it just brakes up the block while your moving while channeling it

Line Braker: Skill seems to miss the targed the moment its just standing on a slightly higher point (same platform)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

Then you have the different problems of the adrenaline trait occupying the same column as another trait that support warrior REALLY wants. Replace Leg Specialist with it, then you can't run Soldier's Comfort, replace Warrior's Cunning and then you can't run Shrug It Off or Empower Allies. The problem to solve with a support adrenaline trait is it needs to be put somewhere where it won't interfere with other support traits, but at the same time won't enable degenerate interactions for other builds. I suggested Eternal Champion because it's a  'safe' place to put it.

You put it on a minor trait. I said up above for Empowered to be replaced by such a tait. That is the best place for such a thing and is the safest place to do so.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, ZEUStiger.3590 said:

I'm against this suggestion. I was also saddened by F1's simplicity initially, but I think I understood the reasoning behind it. They wanted to make this build usable by both berserker (who has access to F1) and bladesworn (who doesn't). Therefore they couldn't place anything unique on F1, lest it would be inaccessible to bladesworn. So instead they put banal stuff there like regen and burst healing (and immob, which is a nice little bit of utility, but not something that would make-or-break a build). Healzerker would spend more time spamming F1 in berserk mode, so its utilities would probably be at least partially comprised of Rage skills. Healsworn, on the other hand, will not be able to access staff F1, but will be able to compensate for it by spending more time autoattacking (offsets the regen from F1) and by using Shout utilities which synergize better with bladesworn's ammo traits (offets the burst healing from F1).

I hope this will help you understand this weirdness in the design.

Then you leave the regen on the AA chain, it will still get procced by berserker. 

[GuriGashi.5617]

Broken and unkillable in PvP - especially with the Defense Trait Line

[alex.8417]

Having tested it just about everywhere, it's a very good weapon for heal and support while doing damage. May be meta in the future. And most of the animations are superb and the FX are great, maybe a little boost for the DPS.

• (However)

To "Cal Cohen" chief designer, I'm not going to hide my disappointment with the animation of the Burst skill "Path of victory". The skill as a whole is fine, the FX are incredible, but this Hammer animation leaves something to be desired for a Staff, when you can have better in terms of animation.

🤞 Hopefully these changes aren't permanent, and changes will be made in the meantime. An animation like the Guardian's "Whirling Wrath" for "Path of victory" would be appropriate.

 

[HeliosMagi.9867]

Something else to bring up, through this isn't about Staff but rather Support Warrior as a whole, on Heal Berserker the base Vigor duration on Warhorn's Call of Valor should either be extended by 2-5 seconds, or a source of Vigor added to Staff. As it is now timing is tight enough where even with 100% Boon Duration and Alacrity you don't get much of a buffer and it's easy to drop it in the heat of combat. On that same note Bladesworn should also get a source of Swiftness and Vigor, since it can't weapon swap to Warhorn for those. Maybe make Lush Forest or Daring Dragon make Gunsaber skills grant those boons in addition to their current effects?

[Iustitian.9176]

- Skill 1: Chain skill 3 is a whirl move but it don't count as whirl combo finisher
- Skill 2: Skill is a leap but it don't count as leap combo finisher
- Skill 3: Too crazy much mobility with 1200 range and in comparation to greatsword skill 5. 900 would be more fair. Together with skill 2 the warrior would be more mobile than daredevil.
- Skill 5: Channeling ends after 1 block. So it's bugged.

[Drag You Down.2615]

14 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Then take the DPS out of Tactics, it's the support line anyway, the damage being there has always been an oddity.

I agree, there's some weird traits in a support line and the support traits are too weak. The same with Thief's Shadow Art. I know they were not designed to be healing support from the beginning, but it's already 2023, nearly 2024, everyone else has a proper support line, Mesmer and Engineer even have 2 support lines. Hopefully they can do some rework of Tactic along with the release of staff next year to make this weapon better interact with what we already have.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

57 minutes ago, Iustitian.9176 said:

- Skill 1: Chain skill 3 is a whirl move but it don't count as whirl combo finisher
- Skill 2: Skill is a leap but it don't count as leap combo finisher
- Skill 3: Too crazy much mobility with 1200 range and in comparation to greatsword skill 5. 900 would be more fair. Together with skill 2 the warrior would be more mobile than daredevil.
- Skill 5: Channeling ends after 1 block. So it's bugged.

Quibble here. All of our ground targeted leaps are blast finishers, so Skill 2 should be a blast finisher instead of a leap. This also would synergize with Relic of Karakosa. Skill 3 is where any leap finisher should go.

[Unicorn Luna.5204]

tl;dr: The one thing that would stop me from taking healer warrior to group content is the lack of stability share that's available.

I made alac heal bladesworn work very well for my liking and I enjoyed it a lot. But practically I'd still take my druid or hfb for healing jobs simply because they can share stability and both can stability share on stun breaker utilities. Any other feedback I may bring about staff has been said by others already. I am very happy with staff but also I look forwards to it being polished and then hopefully improved from the common elements of feedback being given. Many thanks!

[Every day pon.5386]

Granting Unlockable (Staff Warrior) is easily busted & is an Elite-level equated Skill (Basilisk Venom), just letting y'all know in advance ✨

[Kuya.6495]

So after playing around as quick heal warrior for a while in a couple of strikes, here's my feedback:

Pros:

1. I love that staff 3 can be used to save allies that are out of position and it's a very strong heal. 

2. Staff 5's heal is excellent. I love that the more you block the higher the heal!

Cons.

1. Staff 3 feels clunky to use on your allies, specifically when you're trying to maintain protection uptime. It would be helpful if staff 3 applied it's beneficial effects even if you targeted an enemy so you don't have to click around for allies to give aegis/protection but you still have an option to target an off group ally for a quick save.

2. Staff 3 is good for saving an ally out of position but you can get downed mid travel. I found it hard to cancel out from the staff 3 when i notice i'm being yeeted into danger. It would be nice if the dash speed were increased or the dash were given evade frames.

3. The build has too little access to protection. I know you can take soldier's comfort and use line backer to provide 100% uptime, but using staff 3 off cd to maintain protection doesn't feel like the correct use of the skill. I would prefer staff 3 be used as a tool to save allies who are out of group and to provide quick heals and aegis for mechanics. It would be good if additional protection sources were added either to staff 2, or the staff burst skill (my preference is for the burst skill, you will be spamming it anyway for quickness).

4. The build is loaded with might! That's great but warrior already has so much might access, not just with traits but with utilities. While i'm not saying to remove might, i would at least like to see some of the less stellar staff skills, staff 2, 4 and the burst, be given additional boons, such as protection. 

5. Despite in theory there being great synergy with warhorn, the truth is i barely ever swapped to warhorn because it felt like if i swapped i would drop boon/heal uptime. I'm not sure if this is something that can be addressed with staff specifically or this just means warhorn needs buffs or another mh warrior weapon needs some boonsheals to maintain uptime for your group while you swap to warhorn for barrior/vigor/condi cleanse. The pickings for another mh weapon for support were pretty slim so i just went with mace for cc, but once i used warhorn 4 and 5, i was basically sitting still waiting to get off that weapon set to get back to staff. After a while of doing this, i stopped bothering and just camped staff unless there was downtime.

6. This isn't a critique of the staff specifically, but i think there needs to be an improvement on stability access. You could address it by adding stability to staff 5 or something, but i already feel heal warrior is too reliant on staff to make it work. You do get stab with a banner and martial cadence, but i feel the banner is clunky to use as a reactive stab/stunbreak and the trait is too rng based. So there needs to be a reactive stability source somewhere on the kit and i'm not sure if putting it on staff is a good idea.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Kuya.6495