I'm not feeling it - The State of Engineer

[SleepyBat.9034]

I don't know about anyone else, but to me, it feels like Engineer is in a sad spot. We got a low-energy role-play spec with no competitive potential for soto, our new shortbow is a weak support one-trick weapon that has little synergy with engineer traits, and we got almost no value out of the weapon master changes. At their best, our builds are mid in competitive game modes and we rarely have more than 1 good build at a time. We've been stuck spamming Grenade Kit and Mortar since day 1. Turrets have been complete trash since day 1 the first nerf. Over half our kits are so weak they rarely see use. 2 of our trait lines are outdated. Not to mention the most recent patch might as well have had no changes for engineer considering how low-impact they are, slight improvements and changes to skills and traits that didn't need them without changing anything that was underperforming.

Edited December 1, 2023 by SleepyBat.9034

[Eastcorn.5901]

I've been an engineer main since launch and took a break recently and am now coming back, so while I don't know if we're in a super awful spot performance wise, there are a lot of things that seem ridiculous to exist.

As you said, turrets (other than heal turret, and rifle turret just for static discharge builds) have been useless for all of the game except for that one time it was stupidly overpowered in PvP before the first expansion (remember that?)

Our absolute dependence on grenade kit since launch has been insane. There has been no attempt to change that.

Elixir X is still just a random chance between a Warrior (or Necromancer if underwater) and Elementalist core elite skill. No Engineer identity.

The reveal of the shortbow on livestream followed by its boring and lacklustre reviews by other players shows that they really haven't changed in regards to how they make things for the engineer.

I'm tempted to just change my main from engineer to warrior. With the new changes, power berserker seems fun.

 

[Kuma.1503]

Engi is in a bad state. 

One of our elite specs briefly broke the game after release, and that is justification for all the questionable "balance" decisions Anet has made since. 

 

I decided to check back on this game after taking a break in light of the new Weapon Beta... I try to at least keep an open mind to stuff before I write it off, but thus far I have not been impressed. 

[Zzik.5873]

Mech and rifle was fun at eod lunch, now its just lame and most of the mech animation bug out with quickness... The shortbow... well sorry anet but its garbage... Most of our fun trait like barrel cake or triple mine are gone... replace by stat boost wich is always the lamest perk in rpg... I think anet dont want engi player in their mmo... engi feel like the unwanted child... They even took out the golem wich was mostly use by engineer player...

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

6 hours ago, Eastcorn.5901 said:

that one time it was stupidly overpowered in PvP before the first expansion (remember that?)

I remember this. That was when they called unkillable builds "bunkers" because they could bunker down and take on any 1v1 and 1v2's and keep their point capped. Engineer when they could setup their point like a kitten fortress surrounded by turrets was crazy. Not only surrounded by turrets but the turrets would be placed in places you'd have to go out of your way to destroy and that's if you had a ranged weapon to reach some of their spots (turrets could be placed wherever back then like banners).

I still regret waiting too long to try out that turret bunker playstyle before the nerf.

Although you can still brutalize ppl with turrets today, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that to defeat a turret engi is to just destroy the turrets which are conveniently in one easy to reach place lol.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Verdict is Vengence.6912

[wasss.1208]

16 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I don't know about anyone else

I stopped maining Engineer one or two patches ago. Core Engineer is at least viable in PvE, and can have some fun with it, but I really dislike Takedown Rounds, so I don't play this build as often, as I could.
Scrapper has been ruined for me, after they changed how they provided quickness. And the justification was horrible as well. Instead of filling your bar with one kind of skill, and spamming them on cooldown, now you are filling your bar with an another kind of skill, and spamming them on cooldown. At least they are buffing DPS scrapper, which I always found fun, and will definitely play some of it during the next balance cycle.
Holosmith is good, but I've played it for 5 years, I want something fresh.
Mechanist is nonexistent in my eyes. It's the bane of Engineer, and we would've been better off, if it never existed.

In PvP, you play Holo, which has been the case since 2017, or 'Nades, which has been the case since 2020. It's incredibly stale. Every now and then I hop on, to theorycraft a new core build, but it usually just gets farmed by meta builds, so I put the gamemode down, until the next core buffs. Shame those buffs usually arrive after 3 nerfs to core, because they refuse to touch the elit specs first.

WvW is whatever. It is the wild west, I can enjoy anything there. Although after the Support Scrapper changes, I don't really feel like zerging with Engineer.

[Matoro.9708]

I have stopped playing the game because they refuse to acknowledge any of this.

[Eastcorn.5901]

14 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

I remember this. That was when they called unkillable builds "bunkers" because they could bunker down and take on any 1v1 and 1v2's and keep their point capped. Engineer when they could setup their point like a kitten fortress surrounded by turrets was crazy. Not only surrounded by turrets but the turrets would be placed in places you'd have to go out of your way to destroy and that's if you had a ranged weapon to reach some of their spots (turrets could be placed wherever back then like banners).

I still regret waiting too long to try out that turret bunker playstyle before the nerf.

Although you can still brutalize ppl with turrets today, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that to defeat a turret engi is to just destroy the turrets which are conveniently in one easy to reach place lol.

Yeah lol even when everyone knew it was OP, most engineers were really silly and plopped turrets down right on the point, so they were oppressive but decent AoE still eventually took them down.

I always placed them off the point in places behind cover but with full view of the point, often in a sort of triangle. It was obscenely awful with that setup, and I often locked down a point for entire games with that.

But since then turrets have been awful and it's basically been like Engineer has had one fewer skill line compared to every other class.

[Gendalfs.7521]

1 hour ago, Eastcorn.5901 said:

I always placed them off the point in places behind cover but with full view of the point, often in a sort of triangle. It was obscenely awful with that setup, and I often locked down a point for entire games with that.

So in case of fixing map they nerfed class ha ha

[Tiviana.2650]

The state of engi is in the dumpster unless you play heal boon, and they give us a sb! A bow...bow, rangers cant have rifles but suddenly a gadget and explosion tech oriented profession decided to go tree hugger. I cant understand their logic a bow really? and an slow clumsy low damage 180 radius bow of all things! Take the bow back dont give us a weapon fix the class kthx 

[Tiviana.2650]

11 hours ago, wasss.1208 said:

I stopped maining Engineer one or two patches ago. Core Engineer is at least viable in PvE, and can have some fun with it, but I really dislike Takedown Rounds, so I don't play this build as often, as I could.
Scrapper has been ruined for me, after they changed how they provided quickness. And the justification was horrible as well. Instead of filling your bar with one kind of skill, and spamming them on cooldown, now you are filling your bar with an another kind of skill, and spamming them on cooldown. At least they are buffing DPS scrapper, which I always found fun, and will definitely play some of it during the next balance cycle.
Holosmith is good, but I've played it for 5 years, I want something fresh.
Mechanist is nonexistent in my eyes. It's the bane of Engineer, and we would've been better off, if it never existed.

In PvP, you play Holo, which has been the case since 2017, or 'Nades, which has been the case since 2020. It's incredibly stale. Every now and then I hop on, to theorycraft a new core build, but it usually just gets farmed by meta builds, so I put the gamemode down, until the next core buffs. Shame those buffs usually arrive after 3 nerfs to core, because they refuse to touch the elit specs first.

WvW is whatever. It is the wild west, I can enjoy anything there. Although after the Support Scrapper changes, I don't really feel like zerging with Engineer.

They ruined a lot of proffs for me im not having fun on my ranger my engi my necro. Try playing engi sb in wvw oh man what a laugh, dont move guys while i shoot this slow kitten arrow at you and then have to set it off, just wait a min okay

Edited December 2, 2023 by Tiviana.2650

[draxynnic.3719]

Awww man, engineer used to be one of my favourites, now it's sunk right down to the bottom of the list. The builds I would otherwise actually enjoy playing are substantially underperforming in damage, survivability, versatility, or more than one of those at once. Holosmith is probably my favourite of the elite specs, but on a 200-300ms Australian ping, it has one of the most painful "gotcha" mechanics in the game. High reliance on spamming ground-target skills, which shortbow is only adding to. I'm bored with rifle as a ranged weapon, if you take a melee weapon the only good ranged kit available if you don't want to be exclusively melee is grenades (see previous sentence) - buffs to pistols are appreciated (skill 1 really needs to be an explosion if rifle attack is allowed to have explosions, though), but condi builds are pretty much limited to mechanists (not really my cup of tea) and condi holo (which technically exists, but it's not really what holo is designed for, and the build is largely assembled of some of the things I most dislike about engineer and holosmith in the current game). It feels so close to something I could enjoy again, but for me there are currently just so many pain points that I just can't find a way to put together a build that avoids them all without handicapping myself so much that that becomes the pain point in itself.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

2 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

The state of engi is in the dumpster unless you play heal boon, and they give us a sb! A bow...bow, rangers cant have rifles but suddenly a gadget and explosion tech oriented profession decided to go tree hugger. I cant understand their logic a bow really? and an slow clumsy low damage 180 radius bow of all things! Take the bow back dont give us a weapon fix the class kthx 

I don't think it being a bow is a problem, there are plenty of ways you can make a bow fit well with engineer. They just really badly implemented the one they gave.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I don't think it being a bow is a problem, there are plenty of ways you can make a bow fit well with engineer. They just really badly implemented the one they gave.

Yeah, there's a lot of other ways they could have done an engineer bow, and support is not something that engineer was lacking. Mukluk's analysis is that at the moment support engineers are still better off running mace/shield. Knowing ArenaNet, they'll probably do something to make sure that shortbow is the best engineer support weapon somewhere, but it wasn't what was needed on a profession that has no weaponswap and already had mace/shield, medkit, elixir gun, and mortar kit.

[miriforst.1290]

The engineer archetype in many games often tend to gravitate towards using short range shotgun weapons to compensate for increased firepower through devices such as turrets or utility such as the ability to repair vehicles. On release the engineer was as such given the classic shotgun style weapon with a few twists, while warrior would cover the more military style marksman/rifleman archetype which makes sense thematically. However the pistol would also fit into the short/medium range category with its main damage coming from point blank blowtorches, and with mortar being a stationary siege weapon (a flavour I miss, even if the implementation left much to be desired) that left engineers without much long range weaponry, and with odd options for melee combat. If i remember correctly that is why grenades ended up with such a long range (1200 and traited to 1500) as i think they used to have a medium range at some points during early testing. The mortar was redone but was still better when deployed as a tactical grenade and for utility than as a reliable long range weapon (the damage coefficient nerfs in pvp benefited us here however). As for turrets...

The problem with the weapon bound method of expanding our options is that while it might work well for the brute force classes such as warrior (lots of physical weapons of a low tech nature) and for the magical classes where you can slap a thematic visual effect on every skill and say *snort* magic *snort*, the engineer ideally (at least for me) needs to have a good explanation for why and how they use a weapon. Using a staff to shoot fireballs is no good, instead we have to tie it to lightning rods, cattle prods and tesla style devices  while still  keeping it firmly connected to the weapon (we could use a greatsword to summon an orbital strike, but what is the point of the sword?). And i still think it is an emergency measure to account for other classes more easily adapting to hightech weapons than we are at adapting low tech without feeling like we are stuffing it full of unrelated gadget utility skills. It should be said though that even classes such as warriors are about to run into a problem of adapting thematic weapons.

 

My hopes for whatever content  they sell next is that they focus on expanding the utility side in a similar fashion. Something like introducing a new skill in every skillcategory or what have you. Or that we instead got options to switch skills on our weapons untamed style which would fit amazingly with the tinkering side of engineer. Imagine choosing to mount an incendiary grenade instead of a netshot cannister, or switching the auto attack into either a short cone fit for a sawed of shotgun feel  or a long range  marksmans shot to not make you feel as goofy when using the predator. The only problem would be that people would not get new skins to their main. But i am not exactly thrilled about having more dreamers around.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

As far as PVE goes, I think Engineer is for the most part fine. I wont comment on PVP because I have stopped playing this gamemode since 2016 or 2018, I dont remember, this gamemode has a balancing that is so.....Idk weird that it's its own game at this point. As for WvW if you're in a zerg I would say Engineer is ok but as a roamer it's just frustrating to play when almost everyone now has teleportation, super speed or movement ability that allow them to gank and leave while Engineer still has no mobility if you dont run the clunky rocket boot.

 

But IMO the issue isnt that Engineer is too weak it's just that the class itself doesnt get "scaling buff", at least in WvW. Take the Scrapper and superspeed in WvW for instance. We could argue that Scrapper with all the high superspeed duration was very mobile like....5 years ago if not way before. But if we look at today, superspeed for Scrapper is simply nothing. What is superspeed going to do when a Willbender can just instant teleport to your location burst you down and just teleport away while being under aegis and stability ? What is superspeed going to do when Thief can do the same ? Or when a Warrior has so many movement skill it can just catch you by using them ? Or Ranger and all its leap ? And yet here we are today with a Scrapper that can barely keep up superspeed for itself, let alone for its allies. Other class got buffs that are way overtuned while Engineer for the most part received insignificant buff. Oh now my elixir throw can ignore projectile hate ? wow such gamechanger, much quality. 

 

In PvE, honestly Engineer is fine but what annoys me the most is Anet's incompetence to overall balancing but especially when it comes to making their mind on what does what. Again, Scrapper quickness, I am personnally fine with how it is now, but how do you justify Scrapper having to work harder to provide quickness in a small radius when you have Herald that gives quickness in a 600 radius by existing ? Holosmith got buffed a few patches ago and was able to do some high condition damage with Holosmith. Just why ? Holosmith is already a great power DPS spec and now you're also making it a strong condi DPS even though Mechanist exist. And it only took a few patch before Anet nerfed condi Holosmith....and pistol. So yeah they nerfed pistol main hand and off hands. But then recently someone must have realized that after 10 years Engineer only has 1 off hand offensive weapon and it is the pistol. So what did they decided to do ? Buff off hands pistol to make viable for both condi and power option. Just the patch after the nerf.

 

Dont get me wrong I am happy about off hand pistol buff but this just show how Anet is inconsistent with Engineer. No one in this team even knows what Engineer spec are supposed to do and their philosophy often goes against what the spec is supposed to do.

[Sirvaleen.1379]

I only play Engi to roam in WvW lately, and that's not because it's good at that but because roaming in rocket boots still amuse me enough to keep at it. Plus hammer is a great and nicely balanced weapon imho as long as you don't aa much without quickness.

I used to love quick scrapper but after the change to quickness application I just dropped it. Nothing against using combo fields since I was already doing that but the new rotation with mines doesn't feel good to me is all. Quickness coming from the spec mechanics as the source of support made more sense to me 🤷‍♂️ Anyway, not using it anymore was a choice made on a subjective appreciation and pushed by the stirrings of boredom since with no new weapon and no kit rework/shake-up I was feeling like I would play it forever with its same "2 weapons", aka hammer and grenade kit.

So the state of engineer ? Imho, it's doing well.. but it feels stale.

Oh and that's not a "new" weapon based on kiddy books with all the pages being the same in different colors that will change that.
I was not hoping for anything but I didn't think they would make us a new weapon based on the kits having the laziest of concept 🙄

Edited December 2, 2023 by Sirvaleen.1379

[Eekasqueak.7850]

7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Yeah, there's a lot of other ways they could have done an engineer bow, and support is not something that engineer was lacking. Mukluk's analysis is that at the moment support engineers are still better off running mace/shield. Knowing ArenaNet, they'll probably do something to make sure that shortbow is the best engineer support weapon somewhere, but it wasn't what was needed on a profession that has no weaponswap and already had mace/shield, medkit, elixir gun, and mortar kit.

I think they were trying to make a weapon for alchemy and didn't think much past that. 

[Kuma.1503]

I do like the theme of the new weapon. 

I've wanted Engi to lean more into it's Alchemical roots for a long time now. I initially had high hopes for shortbow. Unfortunately those hopes were dashed when I found out how the weapon actually plays. 

There was potential in this concept, but the execution is botched to high heavens. 

A quick summary of the problems:

• AoEs are too small to reliably hit enemies or allies during any mobile encounter
• Setting up a chain reaction takes a long time for a small pay-off
• The weapon lacks  any mobility. This hurts engineer more than other classes because we have no weapon swap
• The weapon lacks any defense. This hurts engineer more than other classes because we have no weapon swap. 
• Damage on the weapon is low. This is a big deal in competitive because when you lack defense. Counterpressure is how you discourage aggression. 
• Boons are unimpactful. When they do land. 

This needs to return to the drawing board. 

[Tiviana.2650]

18 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

but it wasn't what was needed on a profession that has no weaponswap and already had mace/shield, medkit, elixir gun, and mortar kit.

For goodness sake amen! I would much rather prefer a weapon swap than a crappy bow, we have everything we need only thing lacking is some mechanics fixes and a weapon swap. Hey anet how about a belated Christmas present yeah?

[draxynnic.3719]

On 12/2/2023 at 8:07 PM, miriforst.1290 said:

The engineer archetype in many games often tend to gravitate towards using short range shotgun weapons to compensate for increased firepower through devices such as turrets or utility such as the ability to repair vehicles. On release the engineer was as such given the classic shotgun style weapon with a few twists, while warrior would cover the more military style marksman/rifleman archetype which makes sense thematically. However the pistol would also fit into the short/medium range category with its main damage coming from point blank blowtorches, and with mortar being a stationary siege weapon (a flavour I miss, even if the implementation left much to be desired) that left engineers without much long range weaponry, and with odd options for melee combat. If i remember correctly that is why grenades ended up with such a long range (1200 and traited to 1500) as i think they used to have a medium range at some points during early testing. The mortar was redone but was still better when deployed as a tactical grenade and for utility than as a reliable long range weapon (the damage coefficient nerfs in pvp benefited us here however). As for turrets...

The problem with the weapon bound method of expanding our options is that while it might work well for the brute force classes such as warrior (lots of physical weapons of a low tech nature) and for the magical classes where you can slap a thematic visual effect on every skill and say *snort* magic *snort*, the engineer ideally (at least for me) needs to have a good explanation for why and how they use a weapon. Using a staff to shoot fireballs is no good, instead we have to tie it to lightning rods, cattle prods and tesla style devices  while still  keeping it firmly connected to the weapon (we could use a greatsword to summon an orbital strike, but what is the point of the sword?). And i still think it is an emergency measure to account for other classes more easily adapting to hightech weapons than we are at adapting low tech without feeling like we are stuffing it full of unrelated gadget utility skills. It should be said though that even classes such as warriors are about to run into a problem of adapting thematic weapons.

 

My hopes for whatever content  they sell next is that they focus on expanding the utility side in a similar fashion. Something like introducing a new skill in every skillcategory or what have you. Or that we instead got options to switch skills on our weapons untamed style which would fit amazingly with the tinkering side of engineer. Imagine choosing to mount an incendiary grenade instead of a netshot cannister, or switching the auto attack into either a short cone fit for a sawed of shotgun feel  or a long range  marksmans shot to not make you feel as goofy when using the predator. The only problem would be that people would not get new skins to their main. But i am not exactly thrilled about having more dreamers around.

Yeah, there's a degree to which a new kit would likely do more for engineer than a weapon does (heck, shortbow feels like it should have been a kit). A weapon is a big deal for weaponswapping professions, and should be an even bigger deal for elementalist, but engineer's general principle is that they use wacky nonstandard technological devices as much, or more, than conventional weapons, and a kit is generally easier to work into a build than a weapon. Don't get me wrong, I want that lightning projector staff sometime, but engineer is a profession where they probably could say "instead of a weapon, we've made a new kit" with few complaints.

Mind you, I could also go with customising the weapon bar with new skills ranger hammer-style.

[shion.2084]

On 11/30/2023 at 5:52 PM, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I don't know about anyone else, but to me, it feels like Engineer is in a sad spot. We got a low-energy role-play spec with no competitive potential for soto, our new shortbow is a weak support one-trick weapon that has little synergy with engineer traits, and we got almost no value out of the weapon master changes. At their best, our builds are mid in competitive game modes and we rarely have more than 1 good build at a time. We've been stuck spamming Grenade Kit and Mortar since day 1. Turrets have been complete trash since day 1 the first nerf. Over half our kits are so weak they rarely see use. 2 of our trait lines are outdated. Not to mention the most recent patch might as well have had no changes for engineer considering how low-impact they are, slight improvements and changes to skills and traits that didn't need them without changing anything that was underperforming.

Don't worry about being stuck in spamming grenade kit... they nerfed it for you!