WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket system and requirement for Conflux.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

The WvW Skirmish Ticket system NEEDS to be reworked to encourage active play, but Conflux is so forgiving even in this current system.
PvE Trinkets take a LOT of gold and time sunk thru Collections and stuff to do, sometimes they take more effort than an entire Raid Armor set, the same thing cannot be said about Conflux.
1850 versus low tier 7880 Leggy set, the equivalent of being as valuable as an entire set, for less than 1/4th the time spent.

Our game mode having bad reward is the issue, not Conflux, and unfortunately, the OP is actually complaining about Conflux and nothing else.
Therefore the start of this entire thread was nothing than a big temper tantrum.
Thats why ppl push back with "tickets are fine" in here, becuz Tickets ARE indeed fine for the purpose of Conflux.

[ArchonWing.9480]

29 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah but no one said anything about "needing" anything.

It was a simple feedback pointing out that wvw skirmish ticket time-gates create much longer legendary completion times than the other legendary content in the game.

It was a simple statement. No need to read into it, assume things, or put words into anyone's mouth. For IE: I already have all my legendary armor for light medium heavy. I came here to vouch in a response that wvw skirmish time-gates are indeed too long to the point it's just unreasonable.

It's a simple statement.

Again, I was specifically pointing out that "you don't need legendary armor (or conflux)" is a valid point to make. That's in response to :

18 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

And enough of that "Do you need it? If you don't, don't worry about" stuff.

and only that.

I didn't make any assumptions about whether you owned legendar armor  or not, though apologies if you thought I did.

 

Edited January 10 by ArchonWing.9480

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@ArchonWing.9480

Let me take a different approach in explaining this, as everyone who responds in these discussions seems to think that people who say: "wvw skirmish ticket legend time-gating is too long" are all disgruntled players complaining about something that is difficult to get that they don't need that they should ignore and go achieve somewhere else.

It's fine if you didn't mean that, but the guy prior to you did, and as much was quite clear from what he said.

Imagine that I don't even play this game. Imagine I am some kind of designer or maybe even the CEO that runs the final say in what happens with this game's patching. So I'm reading through notes and I know how things work in the game's economy, a great deal of things about the game, although I don't actually play it. I know this from data. I see how quickly it is for people to build other legendaries. Gen 1 as example, could take a person a year or a week, depending on how much effort they want to invest. You start getting to gen 2s, it becomes more time-gated due to map meta currencies involved, but it's still a situation where you're looking at maybe a week of a grind if a person really wants to invest the effort, and then maybe a year if a person is casual playing and slow creeping towards it. I'm looking at legendary trinkets and they aren't that different outside of the ones that require pvp ascended shards or skirmish tickets. The legends tied to these currencies will take a substantially longer amount of time but the time-gating is actually reasonable and we aren't seeing many if any complaint threads about these trinkets. Then we get to legendary armor. The same thing, in pvp it's asc shard/league ticket based, and this requires at least 3 seasons to achieve for those who really want to grind. This is about 6 months time. For most players, this will take about 670 games to get the ascended shards. Each GW2 pvp game takes roughly 15 minutes total from the moment a player enters queue, the match starts, and then the match ends. Roughly 4 games can be played in an hour in GW2. So 670 divided by 4 = 167 hours of play. 167 divided by 24 "a full day" = 7 days. A player who wanted to grind their *** off could achieve the asc shards required with 7 straight days of play. Realistically they would need sleep, so we are looking at more like 10 to 12 days. The only real time-gating for the pvp legendary armor comes from the league tickets, which you can only get so many of per season. The shards themself are grindable.

As a CEO I'm looking at this ^ and I'm thinking: "Seems like 6 months is about the right time-gate we want for people to crank out legendary armor. This is fine because the time-gate currency of league tickets is actually easy to achieve the limit per season. This is routinely casual to do each season, achieve max league tickets. It can be done in probably about 60 to 80 games each season, which is only about 15 to 20 hours of play each season, which seasons last 2 months. The player then decides if he wants to grind enough games for ascended shards each season, to be able to either get them all quickly and then only need to grind max league tickets each season, or to pace it out and play maybe about 220 games per season for 3 seasons. Even though there is a time-gate for the pvp legendary armor, It is something that can actually be achieved through 7 days worth of straight gameplay running back to back pvp matches, that can be sparsed out over the course of 6 months and allocated where the player wants that time to be. <- Keep this in mind.

As a CEO I am then looking at notes on how pve legendary armor works, raids armors, and finally wvw legendary armor. I'm looking at time gates of 3 months, 4 months, 6 months. Even the wvw legendary armor is a time-gate of 6 months. However I notice that this is very deceiving. Because with the other legendary armor sets, players can achieve the maximum time-currencies quickly for the time-gate intervals, allowing them to go do other things, whether it is roaming maps or pvping or RPing or grocery shopping or going to work in real life and doing in real life things. The pvp for example, within a 2 month span, a player can grind out their maximum league tickets veeeery quickly per season, and then choose WHEN they want to run further matches over the course of 6 months to achieve roughly 670 games played. This is again, choosing when to fill 7 days worth of time playing pvp over the course of 6 months. Although that is time-gated, it is very convenient for a player to choose their play times in that time-gate, and 7 days of play isn't actually much within 6 months. Then I'm looking at wvw legendary armor progression and the way skirmish ticket time-gating works. I notice the difference here is that players are looking at 18 weeks, roughly 6 months of play just like pvp, however with the way tickets work, the player must grind 15 to 20 hours a week for 18 weeks straight, to even meet that time-gate of shortest time required to build the legendary armor. We are talking needing to dedicate time to Guild Wars 2 for 6 months, as if the person were working a part time job 15-20 hours a week for 6 months straight, to be able to achieve the tickets within 6 months. This makes it so a player can't do anything else. Not only is that an enormous amount of time to dedicate to the game in general, to the point that is unrealistic to ever achieve for players who have in real life things to do every day, but they can't do anything else in the game if they want to stay in wvw long enough each week to get maximum skirm tickets to meet the time-gate. This is insanely demanding.

As a CEO, I"m looking at 6 month time-gate for pvp legendary armor and 6 month time-gate for wvw legendary armor. Again, I notice how deceiving this is. Because the pvp time-gate is very reasonable and it allows players to do everything else in the game they want to do or need to do in real life, while working towards that 6 month time gate, an it is very easy to schedule when they work towards it. Only 7 hours of straight play required in 6 months. But the wvw legendary armor time-gate of 6 months demands 15-20 hours of play a week for 18 weeks straight, 5 to 6 months, like a part time job. As a CEO, I'm looking at this, and I'm thinking: "What are our priorities here? Is the gated content to urge players to stay in modes for awhile to keep things active? Is the idea behind this demanding skirmish ticket thing to get players to play more? Can we even call this simply a time-gate at this point? Or does it need to be referred to as a time-gate/ability to no life a game check?" because this is unlike the other time-gates in that it seriously demands a ridiculous amount of in real life career like focus to achieve. As a CEO I'm thinking: "Maybe more people would be interested in working towards this if it weren't insanely demanding to achieve. Maybe more people would care if the skirmish ticket progression were more stable as in 10 per pip, 10 per pip, 10 per pip, instead of 1 per pip, 2 per pip, 3 per pip, and only getting 10s if you invest 15 hours a week. Maybe more people would come in and play for short amounts of time if they thought they could get reasonable progression with tickets in small doses. Because as of now, if a player can only find 4 to 8 hours a week to play, they identify wvw legendary armor and its scene as something to not even bother with."

As a CEO I'm thinking: "This isn't good. Maybe the people aren't really complaining about the overall time-gate of 6 months, but rather they are complaining about how overly demanding it is to need to be play for 15-20 hours a week for 6 months straight to meet the time-gate or even to get reasonable ticket gains at all. This is awfully demanding and maybe it puts people off the scene. If we were to make this work more like the pvp legendary armor, in terms of ease of schedule within that time-gate, maybe the casual players would care more and participate more. I want our game to have obtainable goals even for normal people who go to work and have things to do. When normal people feel like they can obtain in-game goals, they play more. We should revise the way this works."

--------------------------

Look, if they want to keep the time-gate of 6 months, which I get, they need to do it differently. It's not that people are really upset with the 6 month time-gate, it's that they are upset with how much time is required per week to benefit the ticket max time-gate. It's just too demanding to where it's ridiculous. They should revise the ticket gain progression. They don't need to make it grant MORE tickets, just make it consistent the whole way through. So each chest is granting the same amount of skirmish tickets. The way they have it now, all the tickets are at the end chests, requiring enormous levels of time spent per week in wvw to achieve, and there are too few tickets in the earlier chests for casuals or busy people to even realistically be able to ever obtain wvw legendary armor. It should be so casuals can play and get reasonable ticket gains when they have time. They shouldn't be punished for not playing GW2 as a part time job for 6 months straight.

This ticket system is overdone my dude. I don't know how else to explain it. Even looking at the statistics of it as a person who isn't playing the game, you can see its progression is not really in-line with the rest of how GW2 legendary progression works. It needs to be revised.

Edited January 10 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Dawdler.8521]

46 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArchonWing.9480

Let me take a different approach in explaining this, as everyone who responds in these discussions seems to think that people who say: "wvw skirmish ticket legend time-gating is too long" are all disgruntled players complaining about something that is difficult to get that they don't need that they should ignore and go achieve somewhere else.

It's fine if you didn't mean that, but the guy prior to you did, and as much was quite clear from what he said.

Imagine that I don't even play this game. Imagine I am some kind of designer or maybe even the CEO that runs the final say in what happens with this game's patching. So I'm reading through notes and I know how things work in the game's economy, a great deal of things about the game, although I don't actually play it. I know this from data. I see how quickly it is for people to build other legendaries. Gen 1 as example, could take a person a year or a week, depending on how much effort they want to invest. You start getting to gen 2s, it becomes more time-gated due to map meta currencies involved, but it's still a situation where you're looking at maybe a week of a grind if a person really wants to invest the effort, and then maybe a year if a person is casual playing and slow creeping towards it. I'm looking at legendary trinkets and they aren't that different outside of the ones that require pvp ascended shards or skirmish tickets. The legends tied to these currencies will take a substantially longer amount of time but the time-gating is actually reasonable and we aren't seeing many if any complaint threads about these trinkets. Then we get to legendary armor. The same thing, in pvp it's asc shard/league ticket based, and this requires at least 3 seasons to achieve for those who really want to grind. This is about 6 months time. For most players, this will take about 670 games to get the ascended shards. Each GW2 pvp game takes roughly 15 minutes total from the moment a player enters queue, the match starts, and then the match ends. Roughly 4 games can be played in an hour in GW2. So 670 divided by 4 = 167 hours of play. 167 divided by 24 "a full day" = 7 days. A player who wanted to grind their *** off could achieve the asc shards required with 7 straight days of play. Realistically they would need sleep, so we are looking at more like 10 to 12 days. The only real time-gating for the pvp legendary armor comes from the league tickets, which you can only get so many of per season. The shards themself are grindable.

As a CEO I'm looking at this ^ and I'm thinking: "Seems like 6 months is about the right time-gate we want for people to crank out legendary armor. This is fine because the time-gate currency of league tickets is actually easy to achieve the limit per season. This is routinely casual to do each season, achieve max league tickets. It can be done in probably about 60 to 80 games each season, which is only about 15 to 20 hours of play each season, which seasons last 2 months. The player then decides if he wants to grind enough games for ascended shards each season, to be able to either get them all quickly and then only need to grind max league tickets each season, or to pace it out and play maybe about 220 games per season for 3 seasons. Even though there is a time-gate for the pvp legendary armor, It is something that can actually be achieved through 7 days worth of straight gameplay running back to back pvp matches, that can be sparsed out over the course of 6 months and allocated where the player wants that time to be. <- Keep this in mind.

As a CEO I am then looking at notes on how pve legendary armor works, raids armors, and finally wvw legendary armor. I'm looking at time gates of 3 months, 4 months, 6 months. Even the wvw legendary armor is a time-gate of 6 months. However I notice that this is very deceiving. Because with the other legendary armor sets, players can achieve the maximum time-currencies quickly for the time-gate intervals, allowing them to go do other things, whether it is roaming maps or pvping or RPing or grocery shopping or going to work in real life and doing in real life things. The pvp for example, within a 2 month span, a player can grind out their maximum league tickets veeeery quickly per season, and then choose WHEN they want to run further matches over the course of 6 months to achieve roughly 670 games played. This is again, choosing when to fill 7 days worth of time playing pvp over the course of 6 months. Although that is time-gated, it is very convenient for a player to choose their play times in that time-gate, and 7 days of play isn't actually much within 6 months. Then I'm looking at wvw legendary armor progression and the way skirmish ticket time-gating works. I notice the difference here is that players are looking at 18 weeks, roughly 6 months of play just like pvp, however with the way tickets work, the player must grind 15 to 20 hours a week for 18 weeks straight, to even meet that time-gate of shortest time required to build the legendary armor. We are talking needing to dedicate time to Guild Wars 2 for 6 months, as if the person were working a part time job 15-20 hours a week for 6 months straight, to be able to achieve the tickets within 6 months. This makes it so a player can't do anything else. Not only is that an enormous amount of time to dedicate to the game in general, to the point that is unrealistic to ever achieve for players who have in real life things to do every day, but they can't do anything else in the game if they want to stay in wvw long enough each week to get maximum skirm tickets to meet the time-gate. This is insanely demanding.

As a CEO, I"m looking at 6 month time-gate for pvp legendary armor and 6 month time-gate for wvw legendary armor. Again, I notice how deceiving this is. Because the pvp time-gate is very reasonable and it allows players to do everything else in the game they want to do or need to do in real life, while working towards that 6 month time gate, an it is very easy to schedule when they work towards it. Only 7 hours of straight play required in 6 months. But the wvw legendary armor time-gate of 6 months demands 15-20 hours of play a week for 18 weeks straight, 5 to 6 months, like a part time job. As a CEO, I'm looking at this, and I'm thinking: "What are our priorities here? Is the gated content to urge players to stay in modes for awhile to keep things active? Is the idea behind this demanding skirmish ticket thing to get players to play more? Can we even call this simply a time-gate at this point? Or does it need to be referred to as a time-gate/ability to no life a game check?" because this is unlike the other time-gates in that it seriously demands a ridiculous amount of in real life career like focus to achieve. As a CEO I'm thinking: "Maybe more people would be interested in working towards this if it weren't insanely demanding to achieve. Maybe more people would care if the skirmish ticket progression were more stable as in 10 per pip, 10 per pip, 10 per pip, instead of 1 per pip, 2 per pip, 3 per pip, and only getting 10s if you invest 15 hours a week. Maybe more people would come in and play for short amounts of time if they thought they could get reasonable progression with tickets in small doses. Because as of now, if a player can only find 4 to 8 hours a week to play, they identify wvw legendary armor and its scene as something to not even bother with."

As a CEO I'm thinking: "This isn't good. Maybe the people aren't really complaining about the overall time-gate of 6 months, but rather they are complaining about how overly demanding it is to need to be play for 15-20 hours a week for 6 months straight to meet the time-gate or even to get reasonable ticket gains at all. This is awfully demanding and maybe it puts people off the scene. If we were to make this work more like the pvp legendary armor, in terms of ease of schedule within that time-gate, maybe the casual players would care more and participate more. I want our game to have obtainable goals even for normal people who go to work and have things to do. When normal people feel like they can obtain in-game goals, they play more. We should revise the way this works."

--------------------------

Look, if they want to keep the time-gate of 6 months, which I get, they need to do it differently. It's not that people are really upset with the 6 month time-gate, it's that they are upset with how much time is required per week to benefit the ticket max time-gate. It's just too demanding to where it's ridiculous. They should revise the ticket gain progression. They don't need to make it grant MORE tickets, just make it consistent the whole way through. So each chest is granting the same amount of skirmish tickets. The way they have it now, all the tickets are at the end chests, requiring enormous levels of time spent per week in wvw to achieve, and there are too few tickets in the earlier chests for casuals or busy people to even realistically be able to ever obtain wvw legendary armor. It should be so casuals can play and get reasonable ticket gains when they have time. They shouldn't be punished for not playing GW2 as a part time job for 6 months straight.

This ticket system is overdone my dude. I don't know how else to explain it. Even looking at the statistics of it as a person who isn't playing the game, you can see its progression is not really in-line with the rest of how GW2 legendary progression works. It needs to be revised.

And then after having been through that intense race for for this specific currency you realize…

Wait legendaries are actually hella expensive in the other 98% of materials they require and now as a new player I have to play 6+ months anyway to afford it. 

So why did I even stress about it?

[TheGrimm.5624]

 

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah but no one said anything about "needing" anything.

It was a simple feedback pointing out that wvw skirmish ticket time-gates create much longer legendary completion times than the other legendary content in the game.

It was a simple statement. No need to read into it, assume things, or put words into anyone's mouth. For IE: I already have all my legendary armor for light medium heavy. I came here to vouch in a response that wvw skirmish time-gates are indeed too long to the point it's just unreasonable.

It's a simple statement.

Let's go simple. To do one full set of Leggo, 22 weeks for up to 69 toons. To do one piece in all ascended that can cover the same for one of 69 toons, its 20 weeks for one piece. Now you have the other 5 pieces to do. How is this not already a major reduction in time for one toon that is further expanded as you move up in toons? Please explain? This is end game content. How does 22 weeks compare to requiring decades?

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And then after having been through that intense race for for this specific currency you realize…

Wait legendaries are actually hella expensive in the other 98% of materials they require and now as a new player I have to play 6+ months anyway to afford it.

That is not true at all. Fractals alone grant about 15-25 liquid gold a day, even for beginning tier 4'ers. Then casually running automated tournaments once per 3 hours is easy for even gold 3 players to average about 15g per AT with 1g on wins and a stack mystic coins to boot, which are now at 2g. Usually resulting in more like 18g on average for the average g2/g3 player. You run 4x ATs a day + a fractal run, you're looking at about 100g a day, and this isn't even considering other quick cash grabs that can be done daily with minimal time invested. At the end of a single month, that's 3000g obtained. And yes, many people go about this method, especially the competitive ones who run wvw all day and take breaks to run ATs in between.

Liquid gold has nothing to do with what is being discussed here. It's easy to get in GW2 now, especially after wizard vault gold bags adding into the equation I listed above ^

25 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Let's go simple. To do one full set of Leggo, 22 weeks for up to 69 toons. To do one piece in all ascended that can cover the same for one of 69 toons, its 20 weeks for one piece. Now you have the other 5 pieces to do. How is this not already a major reduction in time for one toon that is further expanded as you move up in toons? Please explain? This is end game content. How does 22 weeks compare to requiring decades?

Stop this foolish comparison as if ascended were soul-bound and could only be used be the one character who soul-bound it.

The stats are even changeable, it's just tedious to do.

 

Edited January 10 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Look, if they want to keep the time-gate of 6 months, which I get, they need to do it differently.

Good news, your math is off buy almost 2 months at this point in time. Let's actually update that shall we?

Tickets needed for legendary Triumphant Heros Armor: 7,880 (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor)

Max tickets possible per week (not accounting for gold objective bonus tickets): 365+90= 455 (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Skirmish_Claim_Ticket)

Weeks needed at max tickets: 7,880/455= 17.3 -> 18

Months needed: 18/4= 4.5

That's without accounting for bonus tickets btw, which even at only a few dozen per week would move this by 1-3 weeks over the time period.

So let's move away from this 6 month nonsense. It pays to actually update common beliefs occasionally. Moving on.

Quote

It's not that people are really upset with the 6 month time-gate, it's that they are upset with how much time is required per week to benefit the ticket max time-gate. It's just too demanding to where it's ridiculous. They should revise the ticket gain progression. They don't need to make it grant MORE tickets, just make it consistent the whole way through.

If you bothered to do the math here, you'd notice this would not change a lot. It changes around 55 tickets worth of weekly tickets, the ones before reaching gold. The net effect is almost meaningless. Sure, an equal ticket distribution would be more fair. It would not solve any of the issues players complain about (at least the ones that do). I've done the math in the past on these forums.

Case in point: we've gone from sub 300 tickets, to 365 tickets, to now 455+ tickets per week and from 40 hours max to 24 hours max (EDIT: 24 hours without commitment bonus while being continually third and rank 1-149, 20 hours while third and rank 1-149, 17 hours while 3rd and rank 150-619, 15 hours while 1st and Rank 150-619. So even the 24 hours per week are unrealistic. 15-20 hours is far more reasonable conservative assumption and even that does not hold up after reaching rank 150+. 15 hours per week are approximately 2 hours per day, slightly more). The complaints are still there because in the end, the complaints come from a crowd which inherently is not interested in the mode. That's the core issue here.

The Spvp armor is designed differently. It has hard lockouts. Sure those could be implemented here too. Doesn't change the fact that the Spvp armor takes 3 seasons, always. If the WvW armor were to be redesigned, those caps would be in place too. Given WvW has no seasons (which could be a cool idea), the time gate is designed differently, more in line with what this mode needs: engagement.

That said, Spvp is not the best place to take ideas from, given the mode is abandoned and the developers have given up on keeping player engagement up there. In fact Spvp would have benefited from a more similar approach to legendary armor akin to WvW, maybe then the mode would not be in the state it is in now.

Edited January 10 by Cyninja.2954

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 minute ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Stop this foolish comparison as if ascended were account bound and anyone would need separate asc gear for 69 toons

 

So you didn't do the math. I gotcha. I am only at 33 and the time saving was so extreme I was looking for the why did they do this. So 22 is way too easy even for players that have only played a year versus a decade. 

[Dawdler.8521]

5 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That is not true at all. Fractals alone grant about 15-25 liquid gold a day, even for beginning tier 4'ers. Then casually running automated tournaments once per 3 hours is easy for even gold 3 players to average about 15g per AT with 1g on wins and a stack mystic coins to boot, which are now at 2g. Usually resulting in more like 18g on average for the average g2/g3 player. You run 4x ATs a day + a fractal run, you're looking at about 100g a day, and this isn't even considering other quick cash grabs that can be done daily with minimal time invested. At the end of a single month, that's 3000g obtained. And yes, many people go about this method, especially the competitive ones who run wvw all day and take breaks to run ATs in between.

Yeah because new players in a random mix of yellows, maybe exotics and no elites will definitely be grinding T4 fractals and jumping into sPvP tournaments.

Or what, are you talking about 5+ years “new players” that can’t be bothered to dedicate a few months of time for WvW?

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's fine if you didn't mean that, but the guy prior to you did, and as much was quite clear from what he said.

"The guy above Archon" actually read the title of the post, and has made complaints about the Leggy WvW timegate in the past.
I never disagreed Armor took too long, I simply said OP was throwing a tantrum becuz they cudn't get Conflux done with TP flipping and 1 week of afking in WvW.

If you bothered to read other posts in this entire debacle of a thread, plenty of ppl have put out ideas to make the grind faster, as long as active play is required, which you again ignored.
In fact, I alrdy mentioned in this thread that Conflux actually has less timegate than the PvE ring, if one had unlimited gold.
The OP was never concerned with the Leggy set, (even if they did mention it, it was flavor text) their main point was still about Conflux, which is very much a minor issue considering the number of tickets and costs of MoB these days (14g a stack compared to 55).

And lastly, stop being a F-ing coward.
You wanna make some snide comments, do it to my face, this isn't a case where my post was 10 million pages lost in the thread somewhere, yet you still tried to put up some dumb show, disgusting behavior.

Edited January 10 by MercurialKuroSludge.8974

[Chaba.5410]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@ArchonWing.9480

Let me take a different approach in explaining this, as everyone who responds in these discussions seems to think that people who say: "wvw skirmish ticket legend time-gating is too long" are all disgruntled players complaining about something that is difficult to get that they don't need that they should ignore and go achieve somewhere else.

It's fine if you didn't mean that, but the guy prior to you did, and as much was quite clear from what he said.

Imagine that I don't even play this game. Imagine I am some kind of designer or maybe even the CEO that runs the final say in what happens with this game's patching. So I'm reading through notes and I know how things work in the game's economy, a great deal of things about the game, although I don't actually play it. I know this from data. I see how quickly it is for people to build other legendaries. Gen 1 as example, could take a person a year or a week, depending on how much effort they want to invest. You start getting to gen 2s, it becomes more time-gated due to map meta currencies involved, but it's still a situation where you're looking at maybe a week of a grind if a person really wants to invest the effort, and then maybe a year if a person is casual playing and slow creeping towards it. I'm looking at legendary trinkets and they aren't that different outside of the ones that require pvp ascended shards or skirmish tickets. The legends tied to these currencies will take a substantially longer amount of time but the time-gating is actually reasonable and we aren't seeing many if any complaint threads about these trinkets. Then we get to legendary armor. The same thing, in pvp it's asc shard/league ticket based, and this requires at least 3 seasons to achieve for those who really want to grind. This is about 6 months time. For most players, this will take about 670 games to get the ascended shards. Each GW2 pvp game takes roughly 15 minutes total from the moment a player enters queue, the match starts, and then the match ends. Roughly 4 games can be played in an hour in GW2. So 670 divided by 4 = 167 hours of play. 167 divided by 24 "a full day" = 7 days. A player who wanted to grind their *** off could achieve the asc shards required with 7 straight days of play. Realistically they would need sleep, so we are looking at more like 10 to 12 days. The only real time-gating for the pvp legendary armor comes from the league tickets, which you can only get so many of per season. The shards themself are grindable.

As a CEO I'm looking at this ^ and I'm thinking: "Seems like 6 months is about the right time-gate we want for people to crank out legendary armor. This is fine because the time-gate currency of league tickets is actually easy to achieve the limit per season. This is routinely casual to do each season, achieve max league tickets. It can be done in probably about 60 to 80 games each season, which is only about 15 to 20 hours of play each season, which seasons last 2 months. The player then decides if he wants to grind enough games for ascended shards each season, to be able to either get them all quickly and then only need to grind max league tickets each season, or to pace it out and play maybe about 220 games per season for 3 seasons. Even though there is a time-gate for the pvp legendary armor, It is something that can actually be achieved through 7 days worth of straight gameplay running back to back pvp matches, that can be sparsed out over the course of 6 months and allocated where the player wants that time to be. <- Keep this in mind.

As a CEO I am then looking at notes on how pve legendary armor works, raids armors, and finally wvw legendary armor. I'm looking at time gates of 3 months, 4 months, 6 months. Even the wvw legendary armor is a time-gate of 6 months. However I notice that this is very deceiving. Because with the other legendary armor sets, players can achieve the maximum time-currencies quickly for the time-gate intervals, allowing them to go do other things, whether it is roaming maps or pvping or RPing or grocery shopping or going to work in real life and doing in real life things. The pvp for example, within a 2 month span, a player can grind out their maximum league tickets veeeery quickly per season, and then choose WHEN they want to run further matches over the course of 6 months to achieve roughly 670 games played. This is again, choosing when to fill 7 days worth of time playing pvp over the course of 6 months. Although that is time-gated, it is very convenient for a player to choose their play times in that time-gate, and 7 days of play isn't actually much within 6 months. Then I'm looking at wvw legendary armor progression and the way skirmish ticket time-gating works. I notice the difference here is that players are looking at 18 weeks, roughly 6 months of play just like pvp, however with the way tickets work, the player must grind 15 to 20 hours a week for 18 weeks straight, to even meet that time-gate of shortest time required to build the legendary armor. We are talking needing to dedicate time to Guild Wars 2 for 6 months, as if the person were working a part time job 15-20 hours a week for 6 months straight, to be able to achieve the tickets within 6 months. This makes it so a player can't do anything else. Not only is that an enormous amount of time to dedicate to the game in general, to the point that is unrealistic to ever achieve for players who have in real life things to do every day, but they can't do anything else in the game if they want to stay in wvw long enough each week to get maximum skirm tickets to meet the time-gate. This is insanely demanding.

As a CEO, I"m looking at 6 month time-gate for pvp legendary armor and 6 month time-gate for wvw legendary armor. Again, I notice how deceiving this is. Because the pvp time-gate is very reasonable and it allows players to do everything else in the game they want to do or need to do in real life, while working towards that 6 month time gate, an it is very easy to schedule when they work towards it. Only 7 hours of straight play required in 6 months. But the wvw legendary armor time-gate of 6 months demands 15-20 hours of play a week for 18 weeks straight, 5 to 6 months, like a part time job. As a CEO, I'm looking at this, and I'm thinking: "What are our priorities here? Is the gated content to urge players to stay in modes for awhile to keep things active? Is the idea behind this demanding skirmish ticket thing to get players to play more? Can we even call this simply a time-gate at this point? Or does it need to be referred to as a time-gate/ability to no life a game check?" because this is unlike the other time-gates in that it seriously demands a ridiculous amount of in real life career like focus to achieve. As a CEO I'm thinking: "Maybe more people would be interested in working towards this if it weren't insanely demanding to achieve. Maybe more people would care if the skirmish ticket progression were more stable as in 10 per pip, 10 per pip, 10 per pip, instead of 1 per pip, 2 per pip, 3 per pip, and only getting 10s if you invest 15 hours a week. Maybe more people would come in and play for short amounts of time if they thought they could get reasonable progression with tickets in small doses. Because as of now, if a player can only find 4 to 8 hours a week to play, they identify wvw legendary armor and its scene as something to not even bother with."

As a CEO I'm thinking: "This isn't good. Maybe the people aren't really complaining about the overall time-gate of 6 months, but rather they are complaining about how overly demanding it is to need to be play for 15-20 hours a week for 6 months straight to meet the time-gate or even to get reasonable ticket gains at all. This is awfully demanding and maybe it puts people off the scene. If we were to make this work more like the pvp legendary armor, in terms of ease of schedule within that time-gate, maybe the casual players would care more and participate more. I want our game to have obtainable goals even for normal people who go to work and have things to do. When normal people feel like they can obtain in-game goals, they play more. We should revise the way this works."

--------------------------

Look, if they want to keep the time-gate of 6 months, which I get, they need to do it differently. It's not that people are really upset with the 6 month time-gate, it's that they are upset with how much time is required per week to benefit the ticket max time-gate. It's just too demanding to where it's ridiculous. They should revise the ticket gain progression. They don't need to make it grant MORE tickets, just make it consistent the whole way through. So each chest is granting the same amount of skirmish tickets. The way they have it now, all the tickets are at the end chests, requiring enormous levels of time spent per week in wvw to achieve, and there are too few tickets in the earlier chests for casuals or busy people to even realistically be able to ever obtain wvw legendary armor. It should be so casuals can play and get reasonable ticket gains when they have time. They shouldn't be punished for not playing GW2 as a part time job for 6 months straight.

This ticket system is overdone my dude. I don't know how else to explain it. Even looking at the statistics of it as a person who isn't playing the game, you can see its progression is not really in-line with the rest of how GW2 legendary progression works. It needs to be revised.

I'm not reading all that.  Too long and ridiculous.

That's not how those design decisions were made and it's facetious to write as if it were.  You should know better.  And you STILL ignored the main point about time/effort.  PvP leagues are scheduled events.  WvW is not.  You hop into WvW at any time, 24/7.

And since it seems to matter to you what legendary equipment players who are commenting have, I made all the raid weight sets on my first account, all the wvw weight sets on another account, got three legendary backpacks, vision, aurora, conflux, coalescence, and prismatic amulet.  The sPvP amulet is the only trinket I didn't bother with.  So now what?  What does your legendary status have to do with discussing time/effort in an objective manner?

Edited January 10 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Liquid gold has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

Sure it does if you're talking about comparing making legendaries because you still need gold if you want to buy some of the items for making a legendary, even Conflux.  What a ridiculous statement.

Edited January 10 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Fractals alone grant about 15-25 liquid gold a day, even for beginning tier 4'ers. Then casually running automated tournaments once per 3 hours is easy for even gold 3 players to average about 15g per AT with 1g on wins and a stack mystic coins to boot, which are now at 2g.

Hey look, there's that effort aspect you are ignoring again.  Comparing scheduled events with 24/7 hop in WvW at any time, even take a brief break at any time and come back to it.  You can completely solo WvW for the participation for skirmish pips, but that's inconvenient towards your comparison...

Edited January 10 by Chaba.5410

[willow.8209]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:43 AM, Firefly.5982 said:

If legendaries were only a vanity item, I'd have exactly zero interest in them xD I am finally making legendaries now because I play various characters, each with various builds (pdps, cdps, zerg, roam, bunker, support), optimize and tweak as the game or my preferences change...I am tired of wasting money and time over and over and over again on new asc gear and it's very much worth it for me to make leggies and be done forever so I can focus entirely on just PLAYING.

I don't even use my legendary skins because I don't like them much...it's the functionality I am after :3

exactly.

for me i feel like I'm waiting to have stat select gear so i can try stuff and figure out how to spec my characters. Like the game isn't finished at legendary, like it starts then instead. 

[willow.8209]

i really don't get all this talk about doing 1 thing to earn participation every tick. that doesn't sound fun to me at all, and I don't think that should factor into a discussion about people who chose WvW over other content. If all you need is Gift of Battle and you don't really like WvW, you might do that. But if you actually like playing WvW and chose it over other methods of gearing, i can't see why anyone would do that. You'll never get weeklies done that way either. 

On the other hand if you solo, you still might not get much done during a tick. Too busy trying to find an objective that hasn't been flipped while you were running there. But that's not a thing you do while watching a movie. 

 

Edited January 14 by willow.8209

[willow.8209]

On 1/10/2024 at 7:54 AM, Chaba.5410 said:

Look, if they want to keep the time-gate of 6 months, which I get, they need to do it differently. It's not that people are really upset with the 6 month time-gate, it's that they are upset with how much time is required per week to benefit the ticket max time-gate. It's just too demanding to where it's ridiculous.

tl;dr exceprt.

and yea that's right. if I thought I could finish in 6 months I wouldn't say it needs revision. But I hardly ever get to diamond chest, I think the only times i have was when there was an event giving extra wxp. Even when WvW was the only thing I played. But as it happens I like other content too. And I actually need the other content to get materials to make things for the WvW armor as well. 

Edited January 14 by willow.8209

[willow.8209]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:45 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:

You also need to invest in  more specific gear when it comes to doing raids as well while WvW has some gear requirements, it's very minimal.

really depends. Comped gear is definitely a thing in WvW. Yea, you can run whatever you have with the group that's training or taking pugs, but otherwise, gear is not different to raiding as far as i can see as a non-raider reading the build libraries. 

[Gazrul.3086]

I'd rather see them increase the amount of mystic coins gained from the skirmish chests. 250 MCs required per conflux is pretty gross. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

really depends. Comped gear is definitely a thing in WvW. Yea, you can run whatever you have with the group that's training or taking pugs, but otherwise, gear is not different to raiding as far as i can see as a non-raider reading the build libraries. 

I was talking about barrier to entry. It doesn't matter what other people require in WvW, because you can play anyways, while you generally need a group to do raids and they can boot you and prevent you from playing the game at all. Thus, investing in proper pve gear for raiding is an essentially mandatory part of even getting in the door.

Especially if we're considering max farming efficiency as the OP did.

 

Edited January 14 by ArchonWing.9480

[willow.8209]

15 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I was alking about barrier to entry. It doesn't matter what other people require in WvW, because you can play anyways, while you generally need a group to do raids and they can boot you and prevent you from playing the game at all. Thus, investing in proper pve gear for raiding is an essentially mandatory part of even getting in the door.

Especially if we're considering max farming efficiency as the OP did.

 

Fair point that you can play regardless. There are raid training groups but you're not going to bump into them by accident. 

But if we're considering max farming efficiency, then a comped group is needed.

trust me, I solo. Solo rewards, are... well they are there, you do get some rewards, but they are not by any stretch of the imagination efficient. 

When I join a group i get lots more rewards, even if the group is not very good (has to be a pretty bad group before I decide i can do better on my own, but that actually has happened). Because we can do things so much faster. And take much bigger objectives. And because I'm not that good at PvP. However if the group has a comped base group to help the newer ones (the way my guild runs), the rewards are even better. I'm told they're even better than that in the all-comp groups. 

WvW was apparently designed to play with an organized group. You can do it solo, and you can do it in an unorganized group, so by that measure it's more accessible to the general player than raids. But if you're trying to get somewhere in rank or rewards, you really do need the organized group.

And for the organized comped group where you could fairly compare the reward results to raiding, yes, you have similar specific gear requirements as raiding. In order to be able to join that group. And you need to already have some experience specifically in grouping.

Edited January 14 by willow.8209

[ArchonWing.9480]

20 minutes ago, willow.8209 said:

Fair point that you can play regardless. There are raid training groups but you're not going to bump into them by accident. 

But if we're considering max farming efficiency, then a comped group is needed.

trust me, I solo. Solo rewards, are... well they are there, you do get some rewards, but they are not by any stretch of the imagination efficient. 

 

Not really. Remember we're talking about legendary acquisition here. All that matters is you get to and upkeep level 6 participation, which amounts to taking an objective every 10 minutes or so. Thus, you can be highly inefficient and still get max tickets for your time. 

Of course joining a group makes it easier to get to level 6, but once you are at level 6, it really doesn't matter There is very little optimal playing can do to speed it up being this floor, besides tagging up.

Even when it comes to rewards, most of the value comes from Reward Tracks and Skirmish Track rewards. Champ bags and heavy loot bags are not really worth that much, even if nice to have.

In a raid though, playing inefficiently may result in the raid taking many more hours than expected, and thus more time wasted. In some cases it may not even result in a clear. A good group on the other hand will clear things many times faster than a bad one.

Edited January 14 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

6 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

really depends. Comped gear is definitely a thing in WvW. Yea, you can run whatever you have with the group that's training or taking pugs, but otherwise, gear is not different to raiding as far as i can see as a non-raider reading the build libraries. 

I'm really not sure how you're reading the build libraries and reporting yourself as a non-raider kind of explains it.  Gear is basically different between raids and WvW.  Like take necro for example.  I'm looking at the snowcrows website btw.  Necro in raids is primarily condi.  There's a single power reaper build alongside 5 different condi builds.  The power build is largely situational depending upon raid wing/boss the group is doing.

You sometimes run into a class in raids where the gear aligns better between raids and WvW with only minor differences.  At one time that was power berserker and power dragonhunter had more alignment.  DH kind of fell out of the WvW meta since though.

Overall though, the gear can be wildly different.  Like in raids, healers tend to run harrier's gear while in WvW they run minstrel's.

For gear being a barrier to entry, it's not so much the fact that both modes tend to have comped groups with gear requirements, it's that if you play one mode and want to now pick up another, you're looking at needing two different sets of gear to be effective.  Most players are coming from PvE and have toons built out for PvE only.  Equipment templates help, but they are yet another cost.  And players probably already have them filled with their PvE builds: one for power gear and one for condi gear. I have legendary armor and still would rather roll a second toon than buy more equipment templates, to be honest.

[Chaba.5410]

7 hours ago, willow.8209 said:

But I hardly ever get to diamond chest, I think the only times i have was when there was an event giving extra wxp.

It sounds like you are confusing the different rewards.  We're talking about skirmish tickets/Diamond chest which comes from the skirmish "pip" rewards.

If you go to the wiki calculator and run the query with the Call of War variable active, or any of the WxP gain boosters, you see that skirmish rewards do not increase because of it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Special:RunQuery/WvW_skirmish_pip_query?

The only way WxP plays into skirmish rewards is from your rank.  You get bonus pips per tick the higher rank you are.  So you do want to run WxP gain boosters to help increase your rank.

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

It sounds like you are confusing the different rewards.  We're talking about skirmish tickets/Diamond chest which comes from the skirmish "pip" rewards.

If you go to the wiki calculator and run the query with the Call of War variable active, or any of the WxP gain boosters, you see that skirmish rewards do not increase because of it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Special:RunQuery/WvW_skirmish_pip_query?

The only way WxP plays into skirmish rewards is from your rank.  You get bonus pips per tick the higher rank you are.  So you do want to run WxP gain boosters to help increase your rank.

Chaba, I am just tacking on here so this not news to you but more information for players that may be more passive on the forums but do swing in.

Leveling is even faster now with the events. I know defense events may feel very random but they still pay well in WxP which will help players that are looking for more pips as you pointed out. If players hit the calculator make sure to follow the links embedded since a lot of players don't consider the items that are out there outside of the boosters like the Guild buff they can acquire from Guild bartender or the Enrichments they can put in their Amulets to either gain more track or I recommend WxP gain so they are unlocking levels faster for both pips and skills and reward tracks.

[Chaba.5410]

2 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Guild buff they can acquire from Guild bartender or the Enrichments they can put in their Amulets to either gain more track or I recommend WxP gain so they are unlocking levels faster for both pips and skills and reward tracks.

I recommend the WxP guild buff and enrichment too in general. If the goal is GoB though, the reward track enrichment is probably preferred over WxP.