Any plans for vanilla servers?

[Scolix.4879]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, Godfather.9058 said:

Core Tyria maps are dead.

 

No they are not. Stop lying.

On 12/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, Godfather.9058 said:

Dungeons are dead.

 

How would making classic change that when compared to games like wow the game has only few dungeons and there really is no point doing them because how the games reward system works.

On 12/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, Godfather.9058 said:

Skyscale

Yea Skyscale how does that change anything at all for a person that doesn't have one? On newer maps i agree on mounts because they are necessary for not having them would just leave you behind from trains.

On 12/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, Godfather.9058 said:

Elite specs overly focused on melee combat. With much faster paced gameplay.

 

Then don't play with elite spec use basic builds if you dislike elite specs

On 12/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, Godfather.9058 said:

Seizure inducing particle effects for the elite specs.

 

This i agree the game needs slider for graphical puke of spells and skills especially when there are large groups of people on one spot.

On 12/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, Godfather.9058 said:

The new map design focused on extreme verticality.

 

Good. I hate crap like wow's Nagrand its literally my least favorite map design there is nothing more boring than plain field.

On 12/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, Godfather.9058 said:

The new "christmas tree on fire" skins I see everywhere.

I agree on these things as i prefer more "normal" looking armor/weapon design.

[Myror.7521]

The only reason why at least i would like a Vanilla Server would be no e-specs. Like for me the e-specs killed the best way you Play PvP in this game xd

[Godfather.9058]

On 12/21/2023 at 2:47 PM, Biziut.3594 said:

Skins are not up for Your taste? Wierd, becouse imo, recently the only thing that glows throu gemstore skins are parts of Your revealed flesh... and some latex, but it's not really an eyesore kind of glow, if You know what I mean. Other skins not from gemstore, demon lady set, wizard set, and wizard hunter set do not have ANY glowing parts. So sorry but this part is complete bs on Your side. Watch the newest skin from this tuesday, hood with a mask, Mortal Kombat style, not an ounce of glow

 

 

 

You were saying?

Just logged in and saw this in EOTN. Are we even playing the same game?

https://ibb.co/0G5MY36

Do I even need to comment on this screenshot?

[Godfather.9058]

6 hours ago, Scolix.4879 said:

 

Then don't play with elite spec use basic builds if you dislike elite specs

Here is a build that does 5k dps with no buffs from other people. Here is a build that does 7k dps with no buffs from other people.

Which one do you think is objectively better?

This argument "just don't use the best gun in this video game" doesn't make any sense to me. The BFG in DOOM is objectively the best gun for any situation. It is one of those seizure inducing particle overkill kind of guns. But you use it rarely because of how little ammo for it you get. The super shotgun is still the most satisfying gun.

Now imagine if in DOOM you had infinite ammo for the BFG by default and you were told "don't use the BFG if you prefer the super shotgun". Playing Guild Wars 2 nowadays feels like playing DOOM with an infinite ammo BFG.

[Scolix.4879]

2 hours ago, Godfather.9058 said:

Which one do you think is objectively better?

 

Most people who play GW2 barely do any damage at all even if they had best gear and best builds that they copied from build sites. You can see that on most world events when most of the times killing anything takes takes so much time that its actually amazing and i am not even talking about people not using any CC at all during events. Also i doubt most people even know how much damage they actually do even people with 350-500 mastery points i see sometimes struggle with simplest hero point enemies.

[Biziut.3594]

2 hours ago, Godfather.9058 said:

You were saying?

Just logged in and saw this in EOTN. Are we even playing the same game?

https://ibb.co/0G5MY36

Do I even need to comment on this screenshot?

Where eyesore? Apart form one lady wearing aurene pieces they all look perfectly normal and not glowing? 

You should comment, becouse for now I am far from treating You seriously. Bunch of perfectly normal, decent looking players. Some have leges, but it's not like leges were not in the base game. One glowing mini, thats it. 

Edited January 1 by Biziut.3594

[Godfather.9058]

2 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Where eyesore? Apart form one lady wearing aurene pieces they all look perfectly normal and not glowing? 

You should comment, becouse for now I am far from treating You seriously. Bunch of perfectly normal, decent looking players. Some have leges, but it's not like leges were not in the base game. One glowing mini, thats it. 

So you don't see the rainbow barf on 3 different people. Noted.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

4 hours ago, Godfather.9058 said:

Here is a build that does 5k dps with no buffs from other people. Here is a build that does 7k dps with no buffs from other people.

Which one do you think is objectively better?

This argument "just don't use the best gun in this video game" doesn't make any sense to me. The BFG in DOOM is objectively the best gun for any situation. It is one of those seizure inducing particle overkill kind of guns. But you use it rarely because of how little ammo for it you get. The super shotgun is still the most satisfying gun.

Now imagine if in DOOM you had infinite ammo for the BFG by default and you were told "don't use the BFG if you prefer the super shotgun". Playing Guild Wars 2 nowadays feels like playing DOOM with an infinite ammo BFG.

Are you forced to play something you don't like?

[Godfather.9058]

11 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Are you forced to play something you don't like?

People in video games are going to pick the META. Which stands for most efficient tool available.

Especially in multiplayer video games.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Godfather.9058 said:

People in video games are going to pick the META. Which stands for most efficient tool available.

Especially in multiplayer video games.

But are you forced to play something you don't like? 

[Godfather.9058]

Just now, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

But are you forced to play something you don't like? 

No. You're not forced. You can use whatever tool you want. It's just poor video game design. I would say the same thing about DOOM if it gave you a BFG with infinite ammo by default. And then asked you to use worse weapons cos they are more fun.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

12 minutes ago, Godfather.9058 said:

No. You're not forced. You can use whatever tool you want. It's just poor video game design. I would say the same thing about DOOM if it gave you a BFG with infinite ammo by default. And then asked you to use worse weapons cos they are more fun.

Then what is your issue? If you are not forced to play something you don't like it isn't poor design. It means that the game is designed well, by making whatever you like viable.

EDIT:

15 minutes ago, Godfather.9058 said:

People in video games are going to pick the META. Which stands for most efficient tool available.

Especially in multiplayer video games.

This comment under a thread about vanilla servers is so perfect considering early in the game's life, so, from release until a while Necros and Rangers were kicked from dungeon groups for being so bad while most groups preferring Warriors, Eles and other "good professions".

I haven't seen anyone get kicked for playing a certain profession since I came back to the game years ago. 

Edited January 1 by IAmNotMatthew.1058

[Biziut.3594]

36 minutes ago, Godfather.9058 said:

So you don't see the rainbow barf on 3 different people. Noted.

 

2 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Some have leges, but it's not like leges were not in the base game.

So you can't read? Noted. It's legendary amulet effect. What do You want, legendary stuff to look like base stuff and not have effects at all?

[Danikat.8537]

2 hours ago, Godfather.9058 said:

People in video games are going to pick the META. Which stands for most efficient tool available.

Especially in multiplayer video games.

It doesn't, that's a bacronym.

Meta is short for meta-gaming, which means playing 'beyond' the game. (Meta is a Greek prefix which doesn't have a direct English translation but is used to mean 'beyond' 'transending' 'self-referencial' etc. - like 'meta data' which is data about data.) It means researching what you're going to have to deal with and planning for it before you discover it within the game (so you're playing ahead of or outside of the game itself) instead of trying to find a solution using whatever build you have when you get to that point.

It's definitely not something everyone does, I suspect the majority of players in any game never look up guides or walkthroughs beyond maybe checking for specific things if they get stuck at that point.

[Cronospere.8143]

On 12/20/2023 at 8:18 PM, Godfather.9058 said:

Why? If you wanted to ask. I realised that I don't enjoy a lot of the changes.

Core Tyria maps are dead.

Dungeons are dead.

Skyscale.

Elite specs overly focused on melee combat. With much faster paced gameplay.

Seizure inducing particle effects for the elite specs.

The new map design focused on extreme verticality.

The new "christmas tree on fire" skins I see everywhere.

I can be short: 

Vanilla servers will be as dead as (you think) the maps are now. I guess even more less populated as i am reading this thread. Otherwise people would be playing those maps. 

Vanilla servers was a hype some years ago. It isnt anymore. welcome in 2024.

[Ember.8510]

While I don't agree that vanilla servers are the way to go, I do understand why you miss some things about the way the game used to be, and I don't really get why people seem to be arguing against you about that. There's nothing wrong with missing getting everywhere the old-fashioned way on foot or wishing you could play core specs more competitively like you used to, or the way all the characters around you looked more realistic and immersed you in the world more. There's no denying that a lot of newly added skins, animations, infusions and effects totally change the aesthetic of the game, I'm not sure why people are trying. It's just a fact that it has happened - whether you like it or think it's a big deal or not is your opinion which you're entitled to, but there's no denying that it's the case.

However like I mentioned, I don't think the solution is vanilla servers mainly because, as evidenced by the responses to this thread, the vast majority of people like the faster paced gameplay and mounts and flashy skins/effects. They see no issue with the changes and even if they do, the changes aren't impactful enough to warrant going back to vanilla for good. This would mean that the vanilla servers would be pretty much dead and it would be even harder finding groups and players in them. It might be a fun gimmick for a while but it would be a ghost town shortly. Blizzard even tried adding a vanilla/classic mode to another one of their products, Hearthstone, and it didn't work at all. No one played that mode and Blizzard eventually deleted it, because at the end of the day while it was fun seeing the old Hearthstone for a while, at the end of the day the natural progression of the game had lead to some crazy but also more interesting and versatile interactions, with a lot more options. Classic Hearthstone was just too stale and boring, and I think ultimately GW2 vanilla would be too. People love the new content in GW2, it's what keeps things exciting.

I also agree with the others that there hasn't really been enough powercreep (while there has been some) like WoW to justify the vanilla servers. But again, I don't think there's any denying that newer builds can get to much higher dps levels these days. High profile GW2 veterans have commented on the problem that you can do crazy amounts of dps especially with weaponmaster training and totally skip mechanics, sometimes resulting in breaking encounters completely. But the main solution to this is just better future balancing, rather than reverting back to vanilla. I just don't know why some people seem to be acting like you can just choose a much weaker build and that's fine. People want to have fun in a game while also being useful to their team, they don't want to have to choose between the two - that concept isn't hard to understand to me. Yes, you technically have the ability to choose a weaker build, but people want to be able to choose that build and still offer value and perform around the same the level as their fellow players. A strictly worse option, in practice, isn't really an option. There is an argument that core builds should just stay strictly worse though, which I tend to agree with. Anet needs to make money, and expansions offering better builds achieves that. The free core builds are still there for people deciding whether or not they want to purchase more build options, so they still serve a purpose.

So yeah, I get where you are coming from OP.  But we have to live with the changes and make the most of them - maybe try focusing on the positives they bring rather than just the negatives. Because yes, while mounts existing has forced more verticality in recent maps which you may not like, or has made some aspects like reaching vistas redundant, they add so much life and enjoyment to the game in other ways. And yes, even though I also prefer the more realistic aesthetic of old GW2, new flashy skins do provide options for people who want that and it makes them happy. All the new features while they have some downsides also attract a lot of players, actually leading the game to be less dead overall. It's the natural progression of things and at the end of the day it really isn't all that bad. More options is overall a good thing and GW2 is the least offending MMO when it comes to huge changes that ruin the previous game content, I can be thankful for that while also missing some aspects of the previous game too.

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Godfather.9058 said:

So you don't see the rainbow barf on 3 different people. Noted.

There's exactly one person with rainbow sfx in that picture - the one on the far right, with legendary amulet aura. And it that picture the effect is way more visible than it is usually (on half of my characters it is pretty much completely unnoticeable, for example). The other 3 cases with glows are pretty much single colored (white-bluish) and look quite restrained to me. Nothing i'd call an eyesore (and notice, that i am a person that usually actively disables all the legendary trinket effects because i don't like them).

Of course, it is possible to make a glowing bulb/abomination of light and colors out of your character, but that's by no means common, nor is it as easy as you seem to imply - it takes a lot of effort (and a truckload of gold) to achieve. And it's not like you can't make even more cringey looks in game with no aura whatsoever, because if you want, you can do it too. Although, again, you have to intentionally work for it.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 12/21/2023 at 11:15 AM, Godfather.9058 said:

It is horizontal in name only. Look at me with a straight face and tell me this: "The maximum DPS you can achieve right now is the same or roughly the same as it was in vanilla."

We don't have benchmarks from the Core times, but some of the more outrageous builds/strats (like FGS spam and ele MS/Icebow linecasting) were able to output absolutely insane amounts of damage. And there were builds shortly after HoT launch that were capable of over 60k dps (for example the Necro build that used infinite upkeep jagged minions could build up to truly absurd damage numbers if the fight lasted long enough). As for how bad vanilla builds were then, and how stuff improved since, i present you with a core warrior fight with liadri from vanilla.

Sure, some improvements in dps did come over time (also to core builds, btw), but the main improvement was not in the individual capability of the classes/especs, but was a result og the boon meta getting too prevalent. It's not the builds that are too strong It's the boons that did.

(notice, btw, that Strength is now heavily nerfed compared to Vanilla, and so does quickness - although that last one compensated with being able to permanently upkeep it, which originally wasn't possible).

Edited January 2 by Astralporing.1957

[Linken.6345]

9 hours ago, Godfather.9058 said:

No. You're not forced. You can use whatever tool you want. It's just poor video game design. I would say the same thing about DOOM if it gave you a BFG with infinite ammo by default. And then asked you to use worse weapons cos they are more fun.

This is more like it mate.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/a9eb8a60569b33694c6a3a885d24e37c/ab4517c5f6445149-5a/s1280x1920/4de222d81806d3ed334a778cca02c41951f73537.jpg

Edited January 2 by Linken.6345

[Kiki.9450]

8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

This is more like it mate.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/a9eb8a60569b33694c6a3a885d24e37c/ab4517c5f6445149-5a/s1280x1920/4de222d81806d3ed334a778cca02c41951f73537.jpg

Toobright.meme

This is exactly why I turn the Character Model Quality setting to lowest. I can run it, sure, but I don't want to. 

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Like most replies I don't think GW2 has the pop to be able to survive a server split AND I also don't think it is necessary as the game design makes the old content still relevant. Players who want to experience gameplay closer to GW2 launch can somewhat already by choosing not to use their mount, making up their own builds and ignoring all of the wiki/fast farming/etc info.

My main caveat with what I wrote above is that leveling is way faster than original. I think it would be nice to be able to at a minimum turn off the character adventure guide but potentially go even further and choose to reduce your own experience gain pre level 80.

I do also somewhat agree with OP that I'm not convinced flying mounts are good for a game like GW2. I've played Ark quite a bit before and the group I play with have pretty much agreed that going straight to taming flying mounts on a new map is the best move but ALSO that it's the most boring thing to do as it trivialises much of the gameplay and exploration. GW2 is a different game but I still think it's bad for gameplay experience in new zones. Of course it is self inflicted though so players can choose not to use them in most cases (baring a few metas where apparently you need them to keep up).

[Armwvingtoobman.5896]

I loved this game more than life itself back when it was just a windmill appreciation simulator. Would also like to rewind the changes to pacing and the ADD combat and aesthetic. I understand why people love gliding, mounts and more skillful gameplay but I'm a very boring person, I literally just want to look at windmills in sleepy lil villages without anime antagonists swooping in and crazy animations going off all the time. 

Edited January 3 by Armwvingtoobman.5896

[Armwvingtoobman.5896]

On 12/21/2023 at 4:17 AM, Godfather.9058 said:

If it's just nostalgia, why am I currently also playing WoW vanilla on a private server and enjoying it?

I lied. Let me rephrase it. It is NOT WoW vanilla. It is "vanilla plus" as they have decided to call it. In translation, it is the content from WoW vanilla with some tweaks, some small bits of content added while levelling and a LOT of the quality of life features from modern WoW. Basically, over 90% of the game is exactly like WoW vanilla.

I hate it when people throw that "it's just nostalgia" card.

They also seem to believe the person asking for vanilla also wants the removal of minor tweaks and QoL features such as the build storage. Did I mention in my OP that I want the removal of any QoL features? No. I only touched on major changes.

Lol classic wow is essentially the only video game I've been playing since the Nostalrius days. That's like, what, seven years now? Interestingly, TBC and WOTLK didn't do it for me at all, so I can safely say it's not nostalgia haha. GW2 is the only game I'd sometimes go off and play, and sometimes I'd think I enjoy it even more than wow, like, to the point that my cheeks get sore from smiling while playing it, but sometimes the changes I don't like really prevent me from getting into it 😞

[Armwvingtoobman.5896]

On 12/31/2023 at 9:19 PM, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

I miss not being able to use mounts or any other game-breaking mechanics on the main maps, but then again, there's nothing stopping us from not using them. 🤷‍♂️

I think it's better to watch a movie without looking at your phone, but watching a movie with your phone on the arm of your chair, facing up with twitter open isn't ideal just cause you can choose to ignore it. Even if a person knew they'd be happier just focusing on the movie, you can still be lured in, or even just be distracted by having to wrestle with the temptation. 

That said I've gotten pretty good at just playing games the way I want to. My main problems are that anyone I'm playing with or doing an event with is constantly just zooming past me. And also, frankly, just the aesthetic and atmosphere. I know you can't control what other players do in MMO's, and I don't get mad at players for zooming around on mounts(i can see the appeal, actually, the mounts feel way better in this game than in other MMO's), but I think it's also reasonable for me to say that I play MMO's for the tone, atmosphere and pacing of an adventure game, and personally I'd just prefer if the game was still focused more on that vibe. I mean I pretty much only play games for the vibes, really. 

[Godfather.9058]

17 hours ago, Armwvingtoobman.5896 said:

I think it's better to watch a movie without looking at your phone, but watching a movie with your phone on the arm of your chair, facing up with twitter open isn't ideal just cause you can choose to ignore it. Even if a person knew they'd be happier just focusing on the movie, you can still be lured in, or even just be distracted by having to wrestle with the temptation. 

That said I've gotten pretty good at just playing games the way I want to. My main problems are that anyone I'm playing with or doing an event with is constantly just zooming past me. And also, frankly, just the aesthetic and atmosphere. I know you can't control what other players do in MMO's, and I don't get mad at players for zooming around on mounts(i can see the appeal, actually, the mounts feel way better in this game than in other MMO's), but I think it's also reasonable for me to say that I play MMO's for the tone, atmosphere and pacing of an adventure game, and personally I'd just prefer if the game was still focused more on that vibe. I mean I pretty much only play games for the vibes, really. 

This. I just did the Dragon's Stand meta after not doing it at all for several years. Let's just say, it was different from the Heart of Thorns days. VERY different.

Mounts everywhere (not using them means you will be left behind), massive DPS with the new elite specs and changes resulting in much shorter fights.

Even HOT content has been heavily altered by the new changes. And people say "you can just do core content, it's the same."