My thoughts on Willbender

[Barnahizi.2593]

I loved and mained and played only Wilbender.Tried some,watched most the specs and classes, after +1.5k hours(im casual player i made that +1.5k hrs in probably 2 years) still can't play the game if im not playing Willbender in any game mode pve/pvp/open world this is how much i love Willbender but have some issues. I think they fired the guy who designed Willbender.Start playing the game roughly 4 months after EoD launch he(it's male guardian)is forgotten already .Has no runes,no relics, no icon on official Forum forced to play Greatsword/ sword/sword(off hand sword is my taste I can't stand Scepter animations and SFX can be different by users im just RPing). If you want ‰100 Alacrity uptime can't Support  with actual Support items like Staff,Mace or shield bc of 5 hit. Only have 1 Condition option it has good damage but damage not the only thing im looking in MMORPG's while other specs does 3-4 different Conditions with a basic attacks "Basic".When they announced Weapons efficiency i had hopes tried even pistols just felt disappointment (hopefully im wrong when pistols comes) maybe im just Burnout, maybe im wrong or maybe it's a Design issue.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Barnahizi.2593

[Dadnir.5038]

So, if I sum it up for you, Willbender is your best gameplay experience but you feel like it could be better and that it's lacking in "goodies" in comparison with HoT and PoF e-specs?

Well, the "could be better" is common to every single professions and e-spec while the lack of "goodies" is common to every single EoD e-specs.

 

[Saiyan.1704]

I've always disagreed with the "activate on hits" with our virtues. Five hits for a single virtue activation is a lot for our virtues to activate with (maybe) the exception being F1's Permeating Wrath trait. I don't like using greatsword just to get more virtue procs. I would have hoped to see a trait for F2 or F3 in our treeline that would reduced the # of hits but I doubt we'll ever get something like that.

[Saiyan.1704]

Edit: Didnt mean to double post lol! 

To add on and elaborate, I don't like being pigeonholed into using greatsword just to get more virtue procs.

For comparison's sake, DH's aegis on traps work A LOT better defensive wise compared to WB's F3. Just 4 traps gives 4 blocks. You need an equivalent of 20 hits to activate and gain that amount of blocks to activate your F3... assuming you hit 3 people at the same time with GS#2 (Whirling Wrath) every time you activate a virtue. It is exponentially worse if the person you are engaging is range oriented, kiting your greatsword. If you land no hits, you activate no virtues.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Arken.3725]

Spvp:

WB Is arguably weaker than DH in every with the exception of Mobility.  Its damage is less, survivability is less......pretty much everything is worse.  

[Sansar.1302]

Willbender is op in WvW and needs several nerfs.

[cat.8975]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:07 AM, Barnahizi.2593 said:

I loved and mained and played only Wilbender.Tried some,watched most the specs and classes, after +1.5k hours(im casual player i made that +1.5k hrs in probably 2 years) still can't play the game if im not playing Willbender in any game mode pve/pvp/open world this is how much i love Willbender but have some issues. I think they fired the guy who designed Willbender.Start playing the game roughly 4 months after EoD launch he(it's male guardian)is forgotten already .Has no runes,no relics, no icon on official Forum forced to play Greatsword/ sword/sword(off hand sword is my taste I can't stand Scepter animations and SFX can be different by users im just RPing). If you want ‰100 Alacrity uptime can't Support  with actual Support items like Staff,Mace or shield bc of 5 hit. Only have 1 Condition option it has good damage but damage not the only thing im looking in MMORPG's while other specs does 3-4 different Conditions with a basic attacks "Basic".When they announced Weapons efficiency i had hopes tried even pistols just felt disappointment (hopefully im wrong when pistols comes) maybe im just Burnout, maybe im wrong or maybe it's a Design issue.

It's fine to use the support weapons as long as you have enough boon duration to sustain 100% alac. They're lower hits/s but they're not 0 hits/s, so you can still make them work just fine. The condi build also has a ton of variety in what weapons you can play it with (as long as you have at least one weapon set with a torch).

Willbender is arguably in the best state it has ever been in since EoD release, with power, condi, power alac, and heal alac all being viable build options. I've even had good results with full cele on a sort of hybrid heal/dps/boon build. Having a healer do 10-20k dps instead of 2-5k dps can be a hell of an improvement to overall party performance.

[Mell.4873]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:16 AM, Sansar.1302 said:

Willbender is op in WvW and needs several nerfs.

I don't play it but having that much mobility on a class with that many invulnerabilities. It is by definition can't be killed in most cases.

[Kuya.6495]

"With that many invulnerabilities" 

Ah yes, my 10 renewed focuses i spam per fight. 

 

Happy new years btw!

Edited January 1 by Kuya.6495

[Mell.4873]

Happy new Year!

I would also include channeled blocks in the invulnerability category even some of the Shields are close. Shield of Absorption is a very small bubble and knocks you back on first entry.

 

There is a lot of pick from when you want to go immune with Willbender. 

Edited January 1 by Mell.4873

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

8 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Happy new Year!

I would also include channeled blocks in the invulnerability category even some of the Shields are close. Shield of Absorption is a very small bubble and knocks you back on first entry.

 

There is a lot of picks what you want to go immune to with Willbender. 

Cherry picked, it seems.
Even the most Willbender hating ppl know WB rarely runs shields, as it doesn't help them proc their Virtue effects.

[Solo.6873]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Happy new Year!

I would also include channeled blocks in the invulnerability category even some of the Shields are close. Shield of Absorption is a very small bubble and knocks you back on first entry.

 

There is a lot of picks what you want to go immune to with Willbender. 

A block is not the same as an invuln. If we are playing that game then Warrior, Mesmer, and Ranger would be included in that conversation. So lets not call a Joker a Spade.

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Cherry picked, it seems.
Even the most Willbender hating ppl know WB rarely runs shields, as it doesn't help them proc their Virtue effects.

True

52 minutes ago, Solori.6025 said:

A block is not the same as an invuln. If we are playing that game then Warrior, Mesmer, and Ranger would be included in that conversation. So lets not call a Joker a Spade.

Regardless my point is you have many options. Mesmer feedback is used in the same way to projectile block to prevent damage but it's not nearly as useful as most of the Guardian shields. 

My god the naming convention for Gw2 is bad. The most obvious downside to all these Willbender builds is they are almost always hit and run with no staying power. Untamed does a better job at that but cannot teleport away since all its teleports need a target. 

Edited January 1 by Mell.4873

[Solo.6873]

22 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

 

Regardless my point is you have many options. Mesmer feedback is used in the same way to projectile block to prevent damage but it's not nearly as useful as most of the Guardian shields. 

 

See this is where I am confused because it has about the same as other classes. We can actually count the amount of invulns and blocks on one hand. Even adding evades that still is one hand.

1. Renewed Focus

2. Virtue of Courage- one aegis-

3. Shelter.

Those are blocks used in the roaming build people complain about. 

4. If we add the Evades Flowing resolve.

 

In comparison to a popular thief roaming build S/D

1. Roll for Initiative

2. Flanking Strike

3. Dagger storm

4. Withdraw.

-If using daredevil has the option to use Bandits Defense- 

This class has the option to go into stealth.

In comparison to my mesmer roamer

1.  Echo of Memory

           1a. Deja Vue

2. Distortion

3. Blurred Frenzy

This class has the option to stealth AND cause detarget.

 

Warrior-

1. Full Counter

2. Whirlwind Attack

3. Bulls Charge

4. Shield Stance

- If adding rampage- takes 50% less damage with pulsing stability and swiftness-

-If on bladesworn -

1. Triggerguard

2. Cyclone Trigger

.

..So what is really the issue...The options in comparison to other meta roaming builds is around the same.

 

Edited January 2 by Solori.6025
Forgot to add a block

[Sonork.2916]

On 1/1/2024 at 8:28 AM, Mell.4873 said:

There is a lot of pick from when you want to go immune with Willbender. 

There isn't, feels like you've never played WB or guardian before.  Guard has only a single invuln skill, that it an elite on a long cooldown.

WB/Guard has 1 channeled block everything heal skill, it lasts 2s and is a core heal skill.  The one invuln elite skill, which lasts 2s and is a core elite skill, also the guard cannot do anything else while either of those are being channeled.

Reason WB hasn't been nerfed is cause it isn't any better then other classes elites.

[Mell.4873]

18 minutes ago, Sonork.2916 said:

There isn't, feels like you've never played WB or guardian before.  Guard has only a single invuln skill, that it an elite on a long cooldown.

WB/Guard has 1 channeled block everything heal skill, it lasts 2s and is a core heal skill.  The one invuln elite skill, which lasts 2s and is a core elite skill, also the guard cannot do anything else while either of those are being channeled.

Reason WB hasn't been nerfed is cause it isn't any better then other classes elites.

@Solori.6025

Hmm I see them going invulnerable a lot with either the Elite or the Heal.

Maybe all the try hard roamers play Willbender but there is defiantly a lot of them. The tendency to save the invulnerable skills for escaping is the real issue (it even advises saving the ult for escaping on the Metabattle guide)

Edited January 2 by Mell.4873

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

@Solori.6025

Hmm I see them going invulnerable a lot with either the Elite or the Heal.

Maybe all the try hard roamers play Willbender but there is defiantly a lot of them. The tendency to save the invulnerable skills for escaping is the real issue (it even advises saving the ult for escaping on the Metabattle guide)

"Saving your biggest defensive skill for escaping" No duh, thats how ANY roaming build plays when they want to disengage, how do you not know this as Ranger?
"Going Invul a lot" isn't true , back when the CDR patch came out, the Guardian Elite Invul was the only Meditation skill to not get any reduction, it actually has longer cd than before if you were playing Meditation roamer build.

[Solo.6873]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

@Solori.6025

Hmm I see them going invulnerable a lot with either the Elite or the Heal.

Maybe all the try hard roamers play Willbender but there is defiantly a lot of them. The tendency to save the invulnerable skills for escaping is the real issue (it even advises saving the ult for escaping on the Metabattle guide)

I would highly advise you play willbender for a few months, roam solo, fight everyone and everything. You're going to learn a lot more that way vs looking on meta battles and cherry picked YouTube clips. 

The class doesn't have more or less invulns than any other, and a few classes actually got teleporting skills. 

The main reason I think people are crying so much for a nerf SPECIFICALLY for guardian is because it got nikes. And them air forces is black. No one wants to accept a class that used to have limited movement, now has the ability to run away from unwanted engagements. 

You guys are going to have to accept that. Same way you had to accept it when warrior put on their Nikes.

Edited January 3 by Solori.6025

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

"Saving your biggest defensive skill for escaping" No duh, thats how ANY roaming build plays when they want to disengage, how do you not know this as Ranger?
"Going Invul a lot" isn't true , back when the CDR patch came out, the Guardian Elite Invul was the only Meditation skill to not get any reduction, it actually has longer cd than before if you were playing Meditation roamer build.

My biggest method of escaping doesn't make me immune to damage so there is a difference. 

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Solori.6025 said:

I would highly advise you play willbender for a few months, roam solo, fight everyone and everything. You're going to learn a lot more that way vs looking on meta battles and cherry picked YouTube clips. 

The class doesn't have more or less invulns than any other, and a few classes actually got teleporting skills. 

The main reason I think people are crying so much for a nerf SPECIFICALLY for guardian is because it got nikes. And them air forces is black. No one wants to accept a class that used to have limited movement, now has the ability to run away from unwanted engagements. 

You guys are going to have to accept that. Same way you had to accept it when warrior put on their Nikes.

We shall see, I guess I don't really care all that much. 

I get the feeling it will probably be nerfed regardless of me playing it. Like I have been saying I have a tendency to get really good at a class before attempting to PvP with it. 

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

51 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

My biggest method of escaping doesn't make me immune to damage so there is a difference. 

Except it does, when you use a Stealth skill properly like disengaging your pet, Longbow 3 and learn to get out of Line of Sight.
And if you fight on an open field then wonder why your stealth didnt buy u enuf time, thats called fighting at the wrong place.

[Mell.4873]

13 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Except it does, when you use a Stealth skill properly like disengaging your pet, Longbow 3 and learn to get out of Line of Sight.
And if you fight on an open field then wonder why your stealth didnt buy u enuf time, thats called fighting at the wrong place.

You realise you need to both to face and hit the enemy for the Longbow 3 to work. It is better for repositioning than escaping in a pinch. It also doesn't make you immune to damage, people can still attack you with AoE which they do. 

Rangers best disengage is Untamed with both Perilous Gift a 3 second damage immunity (not CC) and Forest's Fortification with 6 seconds of 10 stability with super speed (90 second cooldown too). I have to waste two skills just to do what Renewed Focus does minus the super speed. 

Edited January 3 by Mell.4873

[Solo.6873]

38 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

We shall see, I guess I don't really care all that much. 

I get the feeling it will probably be nerfed regardless of me playing it. Like I have been saying I have a tendency to get really good at a class before attempting to PvP with it. 

I'm gonna be honest. It's never conducive to ask for nerfs when you haven't even touched the class. I think most people are tired of knee jerk changes when they happen because of people who have never touched the class commenting on what needs to be changed. (Usually done because they no longer want to struggle against the class or something usually along those lines ).

Please play the classes you have trouble with before coming into a class specific forum and telling others what the problem is. Or ask for help instead of demanding things become easier for you.

[Mell.4873]

39 minutes ago, Solori.6025 said:

I'm gonna be honest. It's never conducive to ask for nerfs when you haven't even touched the class. I think most people are tired of knee jerk changes when they happen because of people who have never touched the class commenting on what needs to be changed. (Usually done because they no longer want to struggle against the class or something usually along those lines ).

Please play the classes you have trouble with before coming into a class specific forum and telling others what the problem is. Or ask for help instead of demanding things become easier for you.

Dude If I had time to play every class in response to a forum post I would be single without kids.

I barely have time to even play WvW, I have given up on Fractals/Strikes/Raids already. 

All I can tell you is what I see, I'm sure there are some limitations on Guardian and Willbender that I'm not able to see without playing it but compared to other classes I also face they do seem like the last bastion of OPness. Like I said we longer have roaming bands of "Sic Em" Soulbeast with pig maul. They nerfed that playstyle hard so Willbender will most likely be next.

 

Also I never Struggle to fight Willbenders, I do just fine Dueling them.

[Supernova Starr.2069]

2 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Also I never Struggle to fight Willbenders, I do just fine Dueling them.

Please, if you really were doing fine, you wouldn't be here crying for a nerf.