January 30 Balance Update Preview

[HotDelirium.7984]

Why are so many healing traits in Chaos now when inspiration is the healing trait line? Why aren't more over there? Also, almost nobody uses any mesmer stealth options ever so THAT whole mechanic should be updated.

Edited January 19 by HotDelirium.7984

[Inamorta.9348]

For the love of Jesus...stop nerfing Revenant!!

Haven't you gutted it enough with outrageous energy costs and severely long cool downs. Why not buff Rev heals?? Every single Revenant heal is garbage but Mallyx or Dwarf, and neither are played any more in PvP...Mallyx, but barely anyone favors old-school condition builds to use it.

Now Frigid Blitz is changed??? That slow is the only darn reason anyone uses it in PvP. And no rotation exists in PvE or Raiding to use axe 4.

The other classes have a slow or multiple slows...

Instead you turn rangers into arrow carts...guardians get no proper nerfs, they just freely walk around doing obscene damage and CC's like a Raid boss, with their never nerfed elite reset-to-full + 3s invuln??? Thieves left untouched as usual. And mesmer gets gutted, again too??? 

Anet are you trying to make your most loyal and long time player base just quit the game?? Cause it's working. 

Edited January 19 by Inamorta.9348
Corrected typos.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

6 hours ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

In everything. No burst with an abysmal ramp up time. Less boon access overall and completely limited to running double staff.

 

And the pure dps build does worse damage on real encounters than chrono or virtuoso.

The double staff thing I can 100% understand.

The damage on condi alac mirage will be fine since most of the damage comes from the staff ambush and the boons/utility that mirage can offer is about the same as chrono.

The changes that dps mirage are getting also affect other mesmer condi builds btw (apart from axe ambush).

[Fenrir.1742]

On 1/11/2024 at 6:26 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Revenant

 

In addition to toning down the damage of power vindicator in PvE, we've made some minor adjustments to axe to improve its usability for condition builds.

• Frigid Blitz: This skill no longer inflicts slow. This skill now also inflicts torment.
• Echoing Eruption: Reduced the number of blast finishers from 3 to 1. This skill now also grants might to the user.

Ah yes, force us to play scepter as the new angle by making axe and mace completely useless instead of viable. This was a horrible decision for dps condi rev.

[Fenrir.1742]

18 hours ago, Inamorta.9348 said:

For the love of Jesus...stop nerfing Revenant!!

Haven't you gutted it enough with outrageous energy costs and severely long cool downs. Why not buff Rev heals?? Every single Revenant heal is garbage but Mallyx or Dwarf, and neither are played any more in PvP...Mallyx, but barely anyone favors old-school condition builds to use it.

Now Frigid Blitz is changed??? That slow is the only darn reason anyone uses it in PvP. And no rotation exists in PvE or Raiding to use axe 4.

The other classes have a slow or multiple slows...

Instead you turn rangers into arrow carts...guardians get no proper nerfs, they just freely walk around doing obscene damage and CC's like a Raid boss, with their never nerfed elite reset-to-full + 3s invuln??? Thieves left untouched as usual. And mesmer gets gutted, again too??? 

Anet are you trying to make your most loyal and long time player base just quit the game?? Cause it's working. 

THIS. I guess shortbow is the only way to dps pvp now for condi. ggs... :')

[Kirevey.5079]

On 1/11/2024 at 8:26 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Death's Advance: Increased the initiative cost from 2 to 4 in PvP only.

Can we have this change also in WvW ?

[Eddbopkins.2630]

No pvp updates? 

[intomatar.4539]

What's wrong with vindicator damage? Nerf the berserker too, and many others. Or it's nerfs for the sake of nerfs, I don't get it.

[Matoro.9708]

Ranger sword has been so mind bogglingly boring since it got changed. You can do two things: leap and auto attack. Before you could leap in, twirl around, attack and leap out, and do it again. I mean if they wanted you to leap twice they could add ammo to it but instead they just gutted the kitten thing. Gone, reduced to atoms

[ShadowKatt.6740]

On 1/18/2024 at 5:21 PM, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Who cares?

Mirage is there to provide alacrity, while virtuoso is there to solely provide damage.

Thank you. Thank you for this gift. I'm going to save this, and I'm going to share it, for every person that says that tries to argue that Mirage is not simply a monkey to provide alacrity and dance for the entertainment of everyone else. I will share this with them.

Mirage should never have had alacrity. NO ONE else should have ever had alacrity. It should have stayed with Chrono, or better yet, never have existed in this game.

[FrancisN.9276]

Deadeye keeps getting nerfed despite having no benefit from being a single-target dps class with crippled mobility. Now they increase ini cost and make DE only able to dish out 1-2 skills before becoming completely vulnerable for the next 8s. I am at loss for words.

[Geronmy.3298]

1 hour ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Thank you. Thank you for this gift. I'm going to save this, and I'm going to share it, for every person that says that tries to argue that Mirage is not simply a monkey to provide alacrity and dance for the entertainment of everyone else. I will share this with them.

Mirage should never have had alacrity. NO ONE else should have ever had alacrity. It should have stayed with Chrono, or better yet, never have existed in this game.

Handpicked the only comment about it and also was wrong.

[Geronmy.3298]

Staff ambush was already nerfed to do half the condis on clones.

On 1/19/2024 at 2:00 AM, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

The double staff thing I can 100% understand.

The damage on condi alac mirage will be fine since most of the damage comes from the staff ambush and the boons/utility that mirage can offer is about the same as chrono.

The changes that dps mirage are getting also affect other mesmer condi builds btw (apart from axe ambush).

Staff ambush was already nerfed to do half the condis on clones.

The damage is completely useless on fractals and is abysmally low on high phasing bosses. While also dropping alac if you don't invest on boon duration.

They simply don't want Mirage to be the best option on anything and it shows because even when rifle drops Chrono and Virtuoso will be better healers with it.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

43 minutes ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

Staff ambush was already nerfed to do half the condis on clones.

Staff ambush was already nerfed to do half the condis on clones.

The damage is completely useless on fractals and is abysmally low on high phasing bosses. While also dropping alac if you don't invest on boon duration.

They simply don't want Mirage to be the best option on anything and it shows because even when rifle drops Chrono and Virtuoso will be better healers with it.

Mirage is a simpler alac provider compared to chrono, despite both elite specs providing the same boons (apart from quickness obv).

Condi alac mirage has fine damage post June nerf.

[Phyb.6704]

So its the 20th. Where is the preview of the final tweaks of the new weapons?

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

1 hour ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

Mirage is a simpler alac provider compared to chrono, despite both elite specs providing the same boons (apart from quickness obv).

Condi alac mirage has fine damage post June nerf.

This shows you haven't actively touched any alac Mesmers, and for at least 6 months.

Alac Mirage is one of the few builds that looks perfect in theory, but absolutely dismal in practice infamously known for its shty uptime that groups avoid it like a plague. Even in full Ritualist's, it takes at least a sweet 20s to reach cap, and yet this is highly dependent on multiple external factors, including Vigor source/uptime, careful timing to not overlap Ambushes, and the worst of all, micromanagement of exactly 3 Clones up at all time. Any variables in those and whatever its tiny Alac output was will drop faster than a flying chicken, especially the last part where Clones can randomly die to damage or phasing. 

Comparably a greatsword Chrono can overcap either boon in 5s with 0 investment in boon duration and without any of Mirage's problems. No dependence on an external boon like Vigor, no timing management, and best of all, no Clone uptime management. The only requirement is simply that it needs a target to hit. And there's nothing complicated about it, it's just Phantasms -> CS -> Heal -> Phantasms -> F1 -> exit CS -> Heal -> Phantasms -> F1.

And if you believe Mirage's condi damage to still be fine after the June patch, then whatever viability you believe it had will be killed completely on the upcoming 30th if these changes go through. There's a reason why there are probably only 3 players left playing Mirage out there, and it looks like there will be no one left after this patch. 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

14 minutes ago, ohericoseo.4316 said:

So its the 20th. Where is the preview of the final tweaks of the new weapons?

You say that as if you expect to get one. If we're lucky they may drip feed us details on the new weapons before the next drop in February, but don't count on it. They already did that, and ran a beta. They likely figure we've seen as much as we have to, wait for the official release.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

3 minutes ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

This shows you haven't actively touched any alac Mesmers, and for at least 6 months.

Alac Mirage is one of the few builds that looks perfect in theory, but absolutely dismal in practice infamously known for its shty uptime that groups avoid it like a plague. Even in full Ritualist's, it takes at least a sweet 20s to reach cap, and yet this is highly dependent on multiple external factors, including Vigor source/uptime, careful timing to not overlap Ambushes, and the worst of all, micromanagement of exactly 3 Clones up at all time. Any variables in those and whatever its tiny Alac output was will drop faster than a flying chicken, especially the last part where Clones can randomly die to damage or phasing. 

Comparably a greatsword Chrono can overcap either boon in 5s with 0 investment in boon duration and without any of Mirage's problems. No dependence on an external boon like Vigor, no timing management, and best of all, no Clone uptime management. The only requirement is simply that it needs a target to hit. And there's nothing complicated about it, it's just Phantasms -> CS -> Heal -> Phantasms -> F1 -> exit CS -> Heal -> Phantasms -> F1.

And if you believe Mirage's condi damage to still be fine after the June patch, then whatever viability you believe it had will be killed completely on the upcoming 30th if these changes go through. There's a reason why there are probably only 3 players left playing Mirage out there, and it looks like there will be no one left after this patch. 

And yet, when the new rifle was released everyone lost their mind over it because mirage couldn't give alacrity with it. "The rifle is a dead weapon if it cannot provide alacrity" they all cried, because every time you turn around that's literally all anyone does with the Mirage, outside of those niche players who play it for fun.

I think the biggest problem si that the mirage just sucks at what it does. The mirage has two main selling points: Mirage Cloak and Clone Retargetting. Mirage Cloak gives ambushes, and the ambushes are....trash. I mean, let's be honest, they are. Greatsword is great for tagging, and dagger has some decent spike damage, but that's about it. Staff only gets used for its alacrity and if that went away no one would touch it. Then there's Clone Retargetting. On paper, you should be able to carry all your clones from the time you generate them on your first target all the way through to your last target in a group. On paper. In practice, it's difficult to time at best, and at worst it just doesn't work. The two things mirage needs to do well because they are exclusive to the Mirage and all anyone care about is alacrity on ambush.

I think this goes way beyond the nerfs we're being hit with. The Mirage is in desperate need of a retooling to make its primary abilities more spammable and hit harder if it wants to have any hope of having a live outside of Double Tap > 1 > Repeat.

[Phyb.6704]

18 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

You say that as if you expect to get one. If we're lucky they may drip feed us details on the new weapons before the next drop in February, but don't count on it. They already did that, and ran a beta. They likely figure we've seen as much as we have to, wait for the official release.

On 1/11/2024 at 3:26 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hi, everyone,

Welcome to the preview for the January 30 balance update! As always, the goal of previewing these changes is to gather your feedback before the live release. We'll be following the conversation and making further adjustments as needed.

 

Thanks,

Cal "cmc" Cohen

Skills and Balance Lead

 

This update is a smaller set of changes intended to address outliers that came out of the November balance update, plus a handful of changes to prepare for the new weapons coming in the following release. Due to the smaller nature of this update, there won't be an accompanying livestream. We'll be previewing changes to the new weapons themselves at a later date. This update will only include changes to existing skills and traits. After that we'll be working on the next regular balance update that is currently scheduled for mid-March.

Literally says they will be previewing changes to the new weapons at a later date. 

 

[Geronmy.3298]

12 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

And yet, when the new rifle was released everyone lost their mind over it because mirage couldn't give alacrity with it. "The rifle is a dead weapon if it cannot provide alacrity" they all cried, because every time you turn around that's literally all anyone does with the Mirage, outside of those niche players who play it for fun.

 

Because healers should provide either quickness or alacrity.

And this made up scenario where mirages are only used for alac is delusional at best. They do the job the worst out of all adps outside of willbender that is a meme of its own. Is the same as saying that everyone uses any other spec for quick/alac and it sees no use outside of it. I myself haven't played adps in a few weeks and its been fine, nobody cares if you're going axe dps.

Edited January 21 by Geronmy.3298

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

4 minutes ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

And yet, when the new rifle was released everyone lost their mind over it because mirage couldn't give alacrity with it. "The rifle is a dead weapon if it cannot provide alacrity" they all cried, because every time you turn around that's literally all anyone does with the Mirage, outside of those niche players who play it for fun.

This is a different problem. It's because during the reveal they said they wanted to see if Heal Mirage could be a thing so they made the Ambush a heal skill. And healers in this game by default has to provide either Alac or Quick. Why healers have to provide either of those then that's how Anet has decided to balance the game for years. So to truly make Heal Mirage a build like they would like to, they would have known to add either boon to it. And why people associated Alac to the rifle then it was simply because that's all most people know about Mirage from the staff build. It could easily have been Quick instead.

But after trying out WvW last Rush event and especially remembering that the balance lead is a WvW player, I can see what they meant. From what I could understand, to the WvW people healers are those that primarily fart big heals and condi cleanse for the zerg with occasional boon support, and both boons don't matter as much as they are in PvE. And the Rifle does exactly those. So Heal Mirage could be a thing in WvW, but certainly not PvE if they don't have access to either of those boons. 

Quote

I think the biggest problem si that the mirage just sucks at what it does. The mirage has two main selling points: Mirage Cloak and Clone Retargetting. Mirage Cloak gives ambushes, and the ambushes are....trash. I mean, let's be honest, they are. Greatsword is great for tagging, and dagger has some decent spike damage, but that's about it. Staff only gets used for its alacrity and if that went away no one would touch it. Then there's Clone Retargetting. On paper, you should be able to carry all your clones from the time you generate them on your first target all the way through to your last target in a group. On paper. In practice, it's difficult to time at best, and at worst it just doesn't work. The two things mirage needs to do well because they are exclusive to the Mirage and all anyone care about is alacrity on ambush.

I think this goes way beyond the nerfs we're being hit with. The Mirage is in desperate need of a retooling to make its primary abilities more spammable and hit harder if it wants to have any hope of having a live outside of Double Tap > 1 > Repeat.

Mirage needs a identity. Being next to Chrono and Virt makes it feel like a neglected middle child, when the former 2 outshines it in whatever it tries to do. That's why you feel like it sucks at whatever it does.

[AlPower.2476]

I forgot to add that Sword Holo needs some love

Right now holosmith is just a lesser reaper in pve

[BumboJumbo.1308]

3 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

This shows you haven't actively touched any alac Mesmers, and for at least 6 months.

Alac Mirage is one of the few builds that looks perfect in theory, but absolutely dismal in practice infamously known for its shty uptime that groups avoid it like a plague. Even in full Ritualist's, it takes at least a sweet 20s to reach cap, and yet this is highly dependent on multiple external factors, including Vigor source/uptime, careful timing to not overlap Ambushes, and the worst of all, micromanagement of exactly 3 Clones up at all time. Any variables in those and whatever its tiny Alac output was will drop faster than a flying chicken, especially the last part where Clones can randomly die to damage or phasing. 

Comparably a greatsword Chrono can overcap either boon in 5s with 0 investment in boon duration and without any of Mirage's problems. No dependence on an external boon like Vigor, no timing management, and best of all, no Clone uptime management. The only requirement is simply that it needs a target to hit. And there's nothing complicated about it, it's just Phantasms -> CS -> Heal -> Phantasms -> F1 -> exit CS -> Heal -> Phantasms -> F1.

And if you believe Mirage's condi damage to still be fine after the June patch, then whatever viability you believe it had will be killed completely on the upcoming 30th if these changes go through. There's a reason why there are probably only 3 players left playing Mirage out there, and it looks like there will be no one left after this patch. 

The way you are describing alac mirage is right, I don't disagree with you there. But that's a function of alac mirage not the damage.

The damage post 30th jan patch for both condi mirage and alac mirage will be fine.

 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

7 hours ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

This made up scenario where mirages are only used for alac is delusional at best. They do the job the worst out of all adps outside of willbender that is a meme of its own. 

And yet you're wrong because THAT is the core arguement every time changes for the Mirage come up. I never said they were the best at it. I never said they were even good at it, because I don't play it and I don't want to play it. But I'm here. I read. I remember. And the complaint that keeps coming bck over and over and over again like syphallis is "MiRaGe NeEdS mOrE aLaCrItY". Why? Raids. Fractals. Strikes. Literally ONLY the game modes that demand that you maintain every boon all the time so they can scratch out the absolute top tier of damage and the DPS players demand that you provide them with the boons they need so they can do their top damage. And the rest of the game needs to be run through the grinder to cater to that. Which I shouldn't need to explain given the conversation here particularly around snowcrows which I'm now convinced may be the worst thing to happen to Guild Wars 2 period given that it appears that's the benchmark we're using for balance rather than the actual game and what actual players are doing.

7 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Mirage needs a identity. Being next to Chrono and Virt makes it feel like a neglected middle child, when the former 2 outshines it in whatever it tries to do. That's why you feel like it sucks at whatever it does.

The Mirage has an identity, it doesn't need one. But right now the Mirage is in the position of telling it's dad "I just want to dance!" and the father is slapping it across the face and signing it up for the army. I already explained what the MIrage does that no one else in the game can do. Mirage Cloak and Clone Retargetting. Lean into that! We should have more traits that give Vigor. More Vigor > More Endurance > More Mirage Cloak > More Ambush. It's so obvious that Stevie Wonder wouldn't trip over that. And Clone Retargetting should be easier, or reworked so that maybe our clones just stay out instead of needed to be retargetted at all, falling into the theme with the whole desert mirage thing. Mirages aren't temporary, they remain until you wander into them. That's what the mirage NEEDS right now. Just lean into what it does and make it do it better. ANything else you want to do can come secondary. Still want to run a Power Mirage? Zerk gear, Dueling and Domination. Want Condi instead? Viper with Dueling and Chaos. Support? Chaos or Illusion and Inspiration. But those should work with the primary mechanics of the Mirage, not replace them.

[Riba.3271]

Add following changes to the patch and I am happy:

• Willbender - Flowing Resolve charge count reduced from 2 to 1 in WvW
• Holosmith - Photonic Blasting Module damage power coeffient reduced from 3.5 to 3.0 in WvW
• Holosmith - Crystal Configuration: Zephyr: Allied target limit of 5 added
• Engineer - Flamethrower: Flame Jet power coefficient reduced from 2.5 to 2.3 in WvW
• Revenant - Hammer: Coalesensence of Ruin power coeffient increased from 0.91 to 1.05 in WvW
• Revenant - Hammer: Phase Smash power coefficient increased from 1.0 to 1.15 in WvW.
• Elementalist - Staff: Lava Font power coefficient increased from 0.454 to 0.5 in WvW.