Obsidian Heavy Visual Feedback

[Trejgon.9367]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

Dude, the picture I posted IS rotated. I no longer believe that you're debating in good faith since you ignored something I objectively did. This shows that you've already decided by bias that the gap is okay. Please, give that argument to anyone who knows about full-plate.

You did not post any picture of the wow armor tho. You posted link to a wiki page about the armor. On which page I then had to still on my own find the 3d preview to even find out the mask was supposed to be head piece in the first place.

And the picture of obsidian armor you did post was as I mentioned poor example because the colours chosen actually camouflaged the gap as big of shadow.

And now you really want to pull off "not trying to debate in good faith" after claiming that this huge gap exposing whole neck:

https://imgur.com/a/T9Ap8Gh

Is same as this tiny gap that is only seen when I get the perfect angle?
https://imgur.com/a/ihE3biU

3 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

I played the game for a decade and looked at Might for years and there's a huge difference between male and female since for some reason the female head model is tilted and the helmets are lowered, so on females, the gap would be large non-existent in return for more of the top of the head being revealed. The same is apparently present here where the male model of Obsidian Heavy has no gap while the female does.

Going again by link you yourself provided:

https://imgur.com/a/4lyJ9U4

human female, the neck itself is ineed fairly decently protected, (was looking earlier at male at your own instruction), but as a trade off, it comes with very exposed decolt which is still much worse.

Both of variants of the "helm" tho, are not legitimate helmets but in case of male a glorified face mask, and in case of female a spiky gorget, and both would fail to protect against any top-down attack. Trying to claim that Obsidian heavy on humans in GW2 is anyhow the same level of lack of protection, is flat out silly.

Also, what's up with the double post? you first quote my message, and then in separate post just throw a fit that I am somehow debating in good faith? (EDIT: and the second response came 1 hour later to top that mystery off)

And I have already gave you an option that if that tiny gap is such a huge bother, (and if you want to keep the helmet and not switch that for, thing like scalonian defender), to use koda's heavy shoulderpiece from Sorrows Embrace. This alone would make the gap virtually unhittable.

To wrap that up, I will paraphrase your closing statement: please try to give that argument to anyone who knows anything about reality of active combat.

Edited March 3 by Lord Trejgon.2809

[Ashen.2907]

9 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

Only due to location. The gaps are pretty much the same size. Helm of Might protects you if the attack comes from the side and Obsidian Heavy protects you if the attack comes from the front, that's the only difference.

I was referring to the spiky shoulder pauldrons on the WoW armor. That sort of design would prevent the armor from deflecting overhand strikes and would instead channel the full force of the blow into the wearer. Pretty much a death sentence as soon as it is donned. Far more of a risk than the small gap left by the helm due to the size of the target that is the pauldron, doubled because it is present on both sides.

[Malus.2184]

25 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I was referring to the spiky shoulder pauldrons on the WoW armor. That sort of design would prevent the armor from deflecting overhand strikes and would instead channel the full force of the blow into the wearer. Pretty much a death sentence as soon as it is donned. Far more of a risk than the small gap left by the helm due to the size of the target that is the pauldron, doubled because it is present on both sides.

The shoulders of WoW armour are their own thread about physics defiance 😛

[Sobx.1758]

Did you guys not see 90% of mmoRPG armors, including gw2? Now the potential rl utility of an armor is an issue?

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Did you guys not see 90% of mmoRPG armors, including gw2? Now the potential rl utility of an armor is an issue?

Well, it has always been an issue for some group of players. I remember these threads appearing back in first month of this game. And some back in GW1.

Still, there's a difference between an armor set that clearly is not realistic from the very beginning, and one that seems to aim towards that look but ultimately falls short of it.

Edited March 3 by Astralporing.1957

[Donari.5237]

All they'd really need to do to fill in that gap would be to add a collar to the helm or chest.  Could be chainmail texture from helm, cloth from chest. Use the dye channel from the helm faceplate or the chest sleeves, to allow some contrast between pieces if desired.

I agree with others in this thread who've noted the helm looks a little small, like it's a head replacement rather than a head addition.  Not so much so as to bother me, though, at least when I pair it with good shoulders (pro tip, helm plus wintersday fur shoulders plus astral ward glider cloak is a solid basis for a lich-king cosplay).

As I've noted before, my issue with the heavy armor lies more in its WoW-ness.  With careful dyeing this is minimized, but given only two notable colors per piece that fill in very large visual areas, combined with giant shoulders and big curved shapes it's very hard to get away from the WoW look.  I really hope that t2 adds detail (engravings, runes in the trim, filigree lines, etc) along with more dye options.  For example look at Elonan vs Spearmarshal armor; the latter gets much better texture and pattern on the same base design.  I'm not asking for flashy gaudy would never work in battle stuff, far from it, I am very happy to have useful-looking armor.  But it's legendary.  It should look like something someone with the "I'm Rich, You Know" title would wear.

[Sobx.1758]

57 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, it has always been an issue for some group of players. I remember these threads appearing back in first month of this game. And some back in GW1.

Still, there's a difference between an armor set that clearly is not realistic from the very beginning, and one that seems to aim towards that look but ultimately falls short of it.

Kind of true, but I think a lot of the armor sets aiming at visually providing more protection have similar "deficiencies". I fix that by not focusing on turning my zoomed in camera around my character to look for "vulnerabilities" that don't matter (to me 😉 ). On the other hand, if they changed it to make the inner lining go higher, it wouldn't have a negative effect for me, so... 🤷‍♂️ 

And I'm saying inner lining instead of the armor itself, because I don't really like those higher collars asking to clip with whatever part of character or wardrobe they can (obsidian medium collar? Not a fan).

[Astralporing.1957]

15 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Kind of true, but I think a lot of the armor sets aiming at visually providing more protection have similar "deficiencies". I fix that by not focusing on turning my zoomed in camera around my character to look for "vulnerabilities" that don't matter (to me 😉 ). On the other hand, if they changed it to make the inner lining go higher, it wouldn't have a negative effect for me, so... 🤷‍♂️ 

And I'm saying inner lining instead of the armor itself, because I don't really like those higher collars asking to clip with whatever part of character or wardrobe they can (obsidian medium collar? Not a fan).

Fair enough. Clipping indeed can be an issue, and it often isn't pretty. TBH those small gaps don't really matter to me personally (the big gaps on charr armor however do matter, but they are often way, way bigger than other race versions).

[Ashen.2907]

19 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Did you guys not see 90% of mmoRPG armors, including gw2? Now the potential rl utility of an armor is an issue?

Yeah, I was just trying to point out how silly it might be to focus on how unprotected one's character might be, realistically, due to a small gap while examples were being given that would be, realistically, even less protective. The entire obby heavy set would be awful if we really cared about realism instead of cool factor (and I do think the set looks cool despite the helm being a little small).

[Trejgon.9367]

On 3/3/2024 at 11:21 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

And I'm saying inner lining instead of the armor itself, because I don't really like those higher collars asking to clip with whatever part of character or wardrobe they can (obsidian medium collar? Not a fan).

Yeah the collar in combat mode already clips with it's own helmet, not to mention any longer helmet where it'd clip all the time. if that gap is to be patched properly, it needs a chainmail filling tied to the helmet itself, not rising of collar.

20 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

while examples were being given that would be, realistically, even less protective.

And claim was raised, that this gap is on the same level of vulnerability!

20 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

(and I do think the set looks cool despite the helm being a little small).

I'm liking it, and I have already an idea for new guardian fashion for when I finish dem grinds - to to be fair I am rather not going to use helmet/shoulder and gloves skins in it.

21 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

(the big gaps on charr armor however do matter, but they are often way, way bigger than other race versions).

Yeah that's why I originally though OP was meaning Charr version of obsidian armor.

Edited March 5 by Lord Trejgon.2809

[Malus.2184]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:20 PM, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

And the picture of obsidian armor you did post was as I mentioned poor example because the colours chosen actually camouflaged the gap as big of shadow.

I mentioned the colours, I mentioned the reason I had chosen those specific colours as that the character has incredibly dark skin. You just expressed that you had no respect for anything I wrote as you never read it, just assumed things based on your own opinion.

[Trejgon.9367]

53 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

I mentioned the colours, I mentioned the reason I had chosen those specific colours as that the character has incredibly dark skin.

yes, you did, and I specifically addressed it.

53 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

You just expressed that you had no respect for anything I wrote as you never read it, just assumed things based on your own opinion.

Erm, no, that's projecting, I have merely pointed out that the picture you provided of GW2 Obsidian armor is a poor example of how gap is gamebreakingly visible and huge gap, because of your colour choise disguising the issue - it does not matter what your sylvari skin is like, when the only bit visible was that smal gap, it IS going to look like just a shadow, not exposed skin. I have also asked a question, if you have tried to rotate 3d model of the WoW armor to which you provided link, which you took offense in, claiming that you provided rotated picture which - for WoW armor - you didn't.

So there are two ways of what is going on: Either you have no idea yourself of what you actually posted, and really thought that link you provided was to picture of rotated WoW armor (which would also imply you really have issue with comparing sizes of gaps, because gap you claimed to be same size as obsidian armor gap, was in fact much larger than the gap obsidian armor has), or you did exact thing you accuse me off, and did not read what I posted, and thought I was asking you to rotate GW2 display. Which would hardly make sense in conversational context.

Regardless of which variant of events is behind your original weirdly delayed upset at me, after it happened, you clearly did not read anything I wrote after your outburst, because if you did, you would realize that I did in fact read the things you wrote, and replied to it to the best ability the sensible forum posting timeframe allows. It seems you are also assuming things (about content of my post) based of your own opinion (of my lack of respect for anything you wrote). Which are exactly things you accuse me of doing, hence as per starting of this post section - you are projecting things you do onto other poster. I'd advise you to go back and actually read what is written in your thread before throwing baseless accusations of bias further.

[Teknomancer.4895]

Meanwhile, Warbeast and Funerary light armors say hello.

[Malus.2184]

43 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

yes, you did, and I specifically addressed it.

Erm, no, that's projecting, I have merely pointed out that the picture you provided of GW2 Obsidian armor is a poor example of how gap is gamebreakingly visible and huge gap, because of your colour choise disguising the issue - it does not matter what your sylvari skin is like, when the only bit visible was that smal gap, it IS going to look like just a shadow, not exposed skin. I have also asked a question, if you have tried to rotate 3d model of the WoW armor to which you provided link, which you took offense in, claiming that you provided rotated picture which - for WoW armor - you didn't.

- Projecting: Use a buzzword without knowing what it means, https://www.britannica.com/science/projection-psychology, you calling what I did a projection is a thought-terminating cliche.

- Gamebreakingly: I never used this word, and if I did it would be monumentally stupid as the visual effect has little to no effect on gameplay unless it's a fart cloud like Untamed used to have or the Hell Sister currently have. You've either read this word into my argument yourself, in which case, this is your bias, or you're deliberately lying about what I said to make me look bad, it can only be one of the two.

- Small gap: If I took a ruler to it and extrapolated the numbers and ratio the gap is objectively larger than a blade would be. If you see the realistic weapons they would easily get through that gap (minus the hammers and maces). It's only because the game has exaggerated weapon proportions on the showy weapons that moist people like to use that this gap appears small.

- Not exposed skin: What is it then? Because "not" and forms of it are words that explain nothing and seem like they do. If I say, "I'm not happy," it can mean that I'm in a lot of different moods except for happy. It's negative communication and if people are fully aware of what they want to communicate they use positive communication where they say what is, instead of, what isn't. It's my character's skin and it's exposed even if you're unwilling to differentiate it. Will you argue that none of her skin is exposed despite it objectively being so?

ANet can easily fix this by extending the forget to have the same proportional length on the female version as it has on the male version.

[Malus.2184]

13 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Meanwhile, Warbeast and Funerary light armors say hello.

Light armor is supposed to be cloth so that makes a bit more sense.

[Trejgon.9367]

8 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

- Projecting: Use a buzzword without knowing what it means, https://www.britannica.com/science/projection-psychology, you calling what I did a projection is a thought-terminating cliche.

Interesting that you concluded that I do not understand the meaning of the word. Oh and trying to call out using buzzwords while following up with buzzword, I wonder if there is a big word to call that phenomenon 😉

8 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

- Gamebreakingly: I never used this word,

Yes, I did. And I used it deliberately, because you seem really deeply upset over this tiny gap. Thought a bit of hyperbole there could help you notice scale of how are you behaving.

8 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

- Small gap: If I took a ruler to it and extrapolated the numbers and ratio the gap is objectively larger than a blade would be. If you see the realistic weapons they would easily get through that gap (minus the hammers and maces). It's only because the game has exaggerated weapon proportions on the showy weapons that moist people like to use that this gap appears small.

If you took a ruler, you'd notice a lot of armament which larger gaps, with a lot of internet keyboard warriors going "this armor sucks because you can just stab there" while completely ignoring the fact that said piece of armor has been successfully deployed over centuries, so let me ask you this - if you an just stab the weakpoint, why medieval people didn't just do that and win all the time? In case you had issue with guessing why - because in a heat of the fight, against non-conforming opponent, it is truely not easy to land a precise stab at the opening of this size. and scale of weapons in the game has nothing to do with my thought process in there, I assure you.

Interestingly that you didn't even address the elephant in the room of you stating that this gap is same level of vulnerability, as the armor set from WoW, which not only has much larger gaps in neck area, but also completely exposed head.

10 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

- Not exposed skin: What is it then? Because "not" and forms of it are words that explain nothing and seem like they do. If I say, "I'm not happy," it can mean that I'm in a lot of different moods except for happy. It's negative communication and if people are fully aware of what they want to communicate they use positive communication where they say what is, instead of, what isn't. It's my character's skin and it's exposed even if you're unwilling to differentiate it. Will you argue that none of her skin is exposed despite it objectively being so?

I did tell you how your picture of your Sylvari looks like. By choosing dark skin colour, and bright armor plate colour, you managed to camouflage the gap by making it look like a shadow (place in the armor which looks dark because light is obscured from reaching it. This camouflaging effect is further enhanced by the fact that no other element of her skin is anyhow exposed (at least within posted clip). Therefore outside observer has no way of determining the pigmentation of "flesh" under that armor. It is a commendable work at using colours to hide the flaws of model design. I have no idea how this point is eluding you for so long.

14 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

ANet can easily fix this by extending the forget to have the same proportional length on the female version as it has on the male version.

And since we were on the topic of reading and respecting what other people are posting, I will take this moment to point out, that on the previous page, I post the picture showing that the gap is still present, and of comparable size on male model too. it just in both cases needs to look at the preview from a particular angle, and that angle was not the frontal view that I posted first. But you took that first response, went with interpretation that male gorget is longer, and did not even bothered to read when I debunked myself on this subject. And as I stated in other post, I disagree that raising gorget would be a good fix - it would introduce alot of clipping with not only it's own helmet, but make clipping worse with all the other helmets. The better solution, would be to patch this gap with a piece of mail texture, implying presence of mail coif underneath the helmet, which was standard medieval practice to do.
 

The only issue with that version, would be to figure out exact length of coif so it works with other heavy pieces. This is still something that may not be on high priority for relevant artists, because it is very likely, that they need to move on tier 2 obsidian asap, and after that start working on armor sets for next expansion all together.

[Malus.2184]

11 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Interesting that you concluded that I do not understand the meaning of the word. Oh and trying to call out using buzzwords while following up with buzzword, I wonder if there is a big word to call that phenomenon 😉

Yes, I did. And I used it deliberately, because you seem really deeply upset over this tiny gap. Thought a bit of hyperbole there could help you notice scale of how are you behaving.

If you took a ruler, you'd notice a lot of armament which larger gaps, with a lot of internet keyboard warriors going "this armor sucks because you can just stab there" while completely ignoring the fact that said piece of armor has been successfully deployed over centuries, so let me ask you this - if you an just stab the weakpoint, why medieval people didn't just do that and win all the time? In case you had issue with guessing why - because in a heat of the fight, against non-conforming opponent, it is truely not easy to land a precise stab at the opening of this size. and scale of weapons in the game has nothing to do with my thought process in there, I assure you.

Interestingly that you didn't even address the elephant in the room of you stating that this gap is same level of vulnerability, as the armor set from WoW, which not only has much larger gaps in neck area, but also completely exposed head.

I did tell you how your picture of your Sylvari looks like. By choosing dark skin colour, and bright armor plate colour, you managed to camouflage the gap by making it look like a shadow (place in the armor which looks dark because light is obscured from reaching it. This camouflaging effect is further enhanced by the fact that no other element of her skin is anyhow exposed (at least within posted clip). Therefore outside observer has no way of determining the pigmentation of "flesh" under that armor. It is a commendable work at using colours to hide the flaws of model design. I have no idea how this point is eluding you for so long.

And since we were on the topic of reading and respecting what other people are posting, I will take this moment to point out, that on the previous page, I post the picture showing that the gap is still present, and of comparable size on male model too. it just in both cases needs to look at the preview from a particular angle, and that angle was not the frontal view that I posted first. But you took that first response, went with interpretation that male gorget is longer, and did not even bothered to read when I debunked myself on this subject. And as I stated in other post, I disagree that raising gorget would be a good fix - it would introduce alot of clipping with not only it's own helmet, but make clipping worse with all the other helmets. The better solution, would be to patch this gap with a piece of mail texture, implying presence of mail coif underneath the helmet, which was standard medieval practice to do.
 

The only issue with that version, would be to figure out exact length of coif so it works with other heavy pieces. This is still something that may not be on high priority for relevant artists, because it is very likely, that they need to move on tier 2 obsidian asap, and after that start working on armor sets for next expansion all together.

How can a thought-terminating cliche be a buzzword when I seldom hear people use it and fall for the use of one all the time? Meanwhile, I hear people use "projecting" casually without really understanding what it means. While what you're doing does have a term, it's "imagined hypocrisy" rather than "calling out projection." If you truly believed it was then you would have called me out on it rather than using this snarky attempt at belittling humour.

Something can only cast a noticeable shadow if it's noticeable. For you to think the gap was a shadow is an expression that if I had chosen a darker colour on the armor you'd have argued that you see no issue since you want to see no issue.

If adding gotget would add serious clipping issues then how do you explain and the heavy armours in the game that

The context for those armours is that they served a ceremonial role or in other ways a narrative role. For example, gladiatorial armour was open so that the audience could better see the blood since red against skin is visible.

"The standard" combat outfit for those who could afford it was padding, a mail coif, and general mail armour with some plate pieces on top. The full plates that you see all around in museums were mostly of a ceremonial nature and never saw actual battle since they would be really impractical there. There might have been some mounted knights using something that looked like it since a full-plated knight charging at you while mounted is a Code Brown for most people. It looks great in fantasy and in real-life it's rather impractical and while it offers significant protection it also comes with severe downsides.

Conscribed troops where given things such as gambesons and other quilt armour, and they still had provisions from pote ting the noggin since the head is the carrier of the most important organ in the body, the brain.

Your last paragraph I can only interpret as that you think the gap is noticeable and at the same time "not noticeable"? If so, this is a case of cognitive dissonance where they same thing is effectively something contradictory and mutually exclusive and somehow both true at the same time.

You also launch into this long paragraph from what I can only assume is a subconscious desire to avoid elaborating on what your "not exposed skin" actually means as nothing of it is an answer to anything and instead just a justification for you thinking as you did. I already know, and you repeat yourself to explain the same thing to me again.

If adding a gorget would create serious clipping issues then how do you explain the Heavy armor in the game that has the simulacrum gorget and have no such issues?

[Trejgon.9367]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

How can a thought-terminating cliche be a buzzword when I seldom hear people use it and fall for the use of one all the time?

After checking up definition of word buzzword, I will admit in here, that official definition according to oxford dictionary as of date of writing is in fact different than what I thought it was. My apologies. I retract my veiled accusation of hypocrisy.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

If you truly believed it was then you would have called me out on it rather than using this snarky attempt at belittling humour.

That ... is pretty much not how it works. One can be snarky when calling out things, and still believe to be correct.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

Something can only cast a noticeable shadow if it's noticeable.

Helmets that go deep enough over the head, as to cover more than just the skull shape, has tendency to you know, cast shadow over neck? You will see such use of shadowing on the bottom of helmet in art about everywhere involving those kinds of helmets.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

For you to think the gap was a shadow is an expression that if I had chosen a darker colour on the armor you'd have argued that you see no issue since you want to see no issue.

I am unsure what do you mean with that grammatical structure. But here is a pointer if you want to showcase how the flesh is visible from under the armour, it is much easier to show with human with light tone of skin, and darker armor colour. You know in the way I did it in the pictures I posted, where is is clearly visible, and it is clear that it's flesh poking out, not just a black hole of "could bye just shadow being cast by your helmet onto your neck". Please do notice, I am not debating the gap is not there, I have aknowledged it being there, and even provided pictures presenting it being there better than yours. That whole thread of conversation was started by me pointing out, that you chose poor example to show of your issue. Rest of the dispute comes from me thinking that you are exaggerating the scope of the issue - which became blatant after you have claimed it is same size of gap as in wow armor, and then provided a link to a wiki page, with 3d model preview, which shows that there is order of magnitude difference between the two.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

If adding gotget would add serious clipping issues then how do you explain and the heavy armours in the game that

The armours that? I think half of the sentence got lost here in the process.

And yes it would create serious clipping issue within the set, especially considering that helmet already clips into the existing gorget-lite when combat stance is turned on.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

The context for those armours is that they served a ceremonial role or in other ways a narrative role. For example, gladiatorial armour was open so that the audience could better see the blood since red against skin is visible.

I was not even talking about ceremonial or gladiatorial sets of armours. There is plenty of combat armor with gaps larger than what was shown is this thread that Obsidian heavy brings. 

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

"The standard" combat outfit for those who could afford it was padding, a mail coif, and general mail armour with some plate pieces on top.

"The standard" varied from place to place and from period to period.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

The full plates that you see all around in museums were mostly of a ceremonial nature and never saw actual battle since they would be really impractical there.

I am unsure what kind of museums you were visiting, but the ones I saw were battlefield plate. High end battlefield grade that only nobles could afford to get, but battlefield grade regardless. Care to share some pictures of that "ceremonial" plate you saw in museum?

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

There might have been some mounted knights using something that looked like it since a full-plated knight charging at you while mounted is a Code Brown for most people. It looks great in fantasy and in real-life it's rather impractical and while it offers significant protection it also comes with severe downsides.

That is beginning to sound like one of those AI articles of why wearing medieval plate armor was worse than wearing nothing at all, with arguments of "it had weakspots you could stab dagger into!" 🙂

Now I will give you some interesting factoid: there was a period in medieval history, where knights in plate armor were such a vital piece of army that people entered battles thinking they are sure to win, based just on the fact they had more of the heavy cavalry.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

Conscribed troops where given things such as gambesons and other quilt armour, and they still had provisions from pote ting the noggin since the head is the carrier of the most important organ in the body, the brain.

That once again varied from place to place and from period to period. But in general, yes the protection of head and chest were taken as priority.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

Your last paragraph I can only interpret as that you think the gap is noticeable and at the same time "not noticeable"? If so, this is a case of cognitive dissonance where they same thing is effectively something contradictory and mutually exclusive and somehow both true at the same time.

The gap can not be seen from the direct front view of the preview. As you definitely did notice looking at the pictures of my guardian, from the top, and then concluding it is not there.

The gap is visible, when you rotate the preview to just perfect angle, which I only did on my guardian, after you pointing out that it definitely is there on female version, and I took a look, and from the front I did not see it there. This prompted me to start rotating the preview which is when I found it on the female model, which then prompted me to check on male guardian again now that I knew what I am looking for. There is no contradiction there, it is basic physics that on 3d models, some features can be visible at certain viewing angles and not visible at other angles.

Maybe I should at this point take a note from your book and throw a fit over how you are still failing to read my posts. How disrespectful!

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

You also launch into this long paragraph from what I can only assume is a subconscious desire to avoid elaborating on what your "not exposed skin" actually means as nothing of it is an answer to anything and instead just a justification for you thinking as you did. I already know, and you repeat yourself to explain the same thing to me again.

Thank you for confirming that you have no ability to read and understand basic english, and that you assume what I wrote and what my intentions were.

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

If adding a gorget would create serious clipping issues then how do you explain the Heavy armor in the game that has the simulacrum gorget and have no such issues?

Oh, here is our lost second part of the sentence. That is very simple - show me the armor piece in GW2 with the gorget higher than obsidian armor has, and I will show you the bad clipping issues. If I am feeling bored after work today I may even show you the clipping Obsidian heavy helmet already has with it's own chestpiece 🙂

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Meanwhile, Warbeast and Funerary light armors say hello.

Nobody really expect light armor (something that mages wear) to be anything else than high quality travel/everyday/luxury wear. Any defensive qualities such clothes might have is likely coming from magic. Preferably through the expedience of obliterating enemies before they get close.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 3/1/2024 at 4:47 PM, Malus.2184 said:

It looks great

   https://i.imgur.com/NeYcMOQ.jpeg

Edited March 5 by Ashantara.8731

[Teknomancer.4895]

10 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

Light armor is supposed to be cloth so that makes a bit more sense.

The issue you've been going on and on and on about is the existence of a gap in the armor. I showed you armor with far larger gaps -- in fact fully exposed chests where any weapon would have plenty of target area to choose from.

So according to you a small gap in one kind of armor is a horror, but a fully exposed chest in another type is no problem.

Makes perfect sense, and is absolutely consistent.

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nobody really expect light armor (something that mages wear) to be anything else than high quality travel/everyday/luxury wear. Any defensive qualities such clothes might have is likely coming from magic. Preferably through the expedience of obliterating enemies before they get close.

Allow me to introduce the Gambeson; historic cloth armor that most certainly didn't have a fully exposed chest area.

 

Both of you are full of it.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Allow me to introduce the Gambeson; historic cloth armor that most certainly didn't have a fully exposed chest area.

Thanks. Notice how Gambeson would more fit the medium category, though.

[Ashen.2907]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Thanks. Notice how Gambeson would more fit the medium category, though.

Not really. Keep in mind that a gambeson would often be worn under heavier armor. It is cloth, lighter than the typical medium armors in games (including this one) and so on.

[Malus.2184]

22 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

I am unsure what do you mean with that grammatical structure. But here is a pointer if you want to showcase how the flesh is visible from under the armour, it is much easier to show with human with light tone of skin, and darker armor colour. You know in the way I did it in the pictures I posted, where is is clearly visible, and it is clear that it's flesh poking out, not just a black hole of "could bye just shadow being cast by your helmet onto your neck". Please do notice, I am not debating the gap is not there, I have aknowledged it being there, and even provided pictures presenting it being there better than yours. That whole thread of conversation was started by me pointing out, that you chose poor example to show of your issue. Rest of the dispute comes from me thinking that you are exaggerating the scope of the issue - which became blatant after you have claimed it is same size of gap as in wow armor, and then provided a link to a wiki page, with 3d model preview, which shows that there is order of magnitude difference between the two.

Due to the skeleton of the base model, individual bugs. and informed decisions armor models show differently on different models. For example, I would be unable to show that the right medium armor shoulders (the thin ones) clip through the female model's shoulder since that visual bug only exists on Sylvari. I'm unable to use a female Norn to showcase how the lower legs on females are massively broken and to a much lesser degree on Sylvari since the female Norn model has functional lower legs. Etc, etc. 

14 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

The issue you've been going on and on and on about is the existence of a gap in the armor. I showed you armor with far larger gaps -- in fact fully exposed chests where any weapon would have plenty of target area to choose from.

So according to you a small gap in one kind of armor is a horror, but a fully exposed chest in another type is no problem.

Makes perfect sense, and is absolutely consistent.

Allow me to introduce the Gambeson; historic cloth armor that most certainly didn't have a fully exposed chest area.

 

Both of you are full of it.

Context is important. Does Light armor often have insanely big gaps? They're cloth and similar so, of course, they do. Light armor is mostly only worn for modesty. For cloth to give any real protection, outside of game mechanics, it would have to be loose, oiled, and thick.

Water and gasoline are both wet, yet, only one of them can be safely drunk by humans. Context matters, and when you make an argument without context you just look silly.

[Trejgon.9367]

14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Thanks. Notice how Gambeson would more fit the medium category, though.

We actually have it in game, in medium armors.

4 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Not really. Keep in mind that a gambeson would often be worn under heavier armor. It is cloth, lighter than the typical medium armors in games (including this one) and so on.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/c2/Studded_armor_human_female_front.jpg/146px-Studded_armor_human_female_front.jpg that looks fairly like gameson to me. And is medium armor. Considering how GW2 classification goes, I would put gambeson into medium cathegory, as "light" is mostly just clothing. Additionally, gambeson is not just cloth, it's multiplelayers of cloth layers stitched together.

That being said this part of threat is also going sideways, if we really wanted to apply whataboutism to OP's issue with the gap in obsidian heavy (however I still think he is claiming it to be much bigger issue than it is) there is plenty of heavy armor sets with big gaps in protection.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/0/02/Scale_armor_human_male_front.jpg/107px-Scale_armor_human_male_front.jpg has much more exposed neck, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/8/80/Barbaric_armor_human_male_front.jpg/114px-Barbaric_armor_human_male_front.jpg has half a chest exposed, and does not share excuse for it of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/5/5f/Gladiator_armor_human_male_front.jpg/110px-Gladiator_armor_human_male_front.jpg being supposedely for gladiatorial combat so different priorities, then, this is admitedly heavy armor: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/2/24/Elonian_armor_(heavy)_human_male_front.jpg/102px-Elonian_armor_(heavy)_human_male_front.jpg, and then female mistshard also have tactical death cutouts to it. Speaking of female armor, this is in the game since vanilla: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/2/28/Grasping_Dead_armor_human_female_front.jpg/120px-Grasping_Dead_armor_human_female_front.jpg since I mentioned mist shard: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/e/ea/Mist_Shard_armor_(heavy)_human_female_front.jpg/93px-Mist_Shard_armor_(heavy)_human_female_front.jpg Priory seems to want to invite injury for their female knights: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/1/14/Priory's_Historical_armor_(heavy)_human_female_front.jpg/96px-Priory's_Historical_armor_(heavy)_human_female_front.jpg, and order of whispers, seems to be bound on exposing skin in very dangerous areas: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/f/fd/Whisper's_Secret_armor_(heavy)_human_female_front.jpg/96px-Whisper's_Secret_armor_(heavy)_human_female_front.jpg And vigil, has heartly exposure even worse, while also exposing quite a vital artery: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/d/d0/Vigil's_Honor_armor_(heavy)_human_female_front.jpg/97px-Vigil's_Honor_armor_(heavy)_human_female_front.jpg

That being said pointing out other armors being worse, does not really address issues obsidian armor may or may not have now, does it?