Listen, Scouts.

[TheGrimm.5624]

18 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Scouting is a very important job, and also an easy job.

If you want your team to respond faster then you need 3 pieces of information.

1. HOW MANY - Use an average if it's too much to count, if it's orange swords it's 25+, in which case you can say a zerg, if it gets to 40+ it's a blob. This is the most important piece of information for your team to respond appropriately, whether we need to send some roamers to a camp, or a zerg to a tower. This cannot and should not be the last piece of information you bother to provide, you want a fast response then put the numbers first or get ignored.

2. WHO DAT- Which side? color, or server name, or guild. Some guilds or server will get faster priority, some won't due to their reputations. Commanders need to know how much time they have to respond, especially if they're tied up in combat already.

3. LOCATION - And no, posting a LINK to the objective just because it has white swords doesn't cut it, if you're not there then ask for "Eyes on objective" so someone nearby can scout it. Many players will just ignore link calls with no additional information provided.

WHAT IS GOING ON - Do they have siege up? are they just killing siege on outer? are they just farting around farming roamers? Is there golems? do we have tactics?

WHAT YOU SHOULD LEARN - Use Outer and Inner as terms for keeps and smc, use Cardinal directions if multiple walls or gates are present such as in the keeps and smc. Use cardinal directions for calling out borderland objectives, no one remembers the names of three different borderland maps that have the same locations, and it's annoying to click on a link to check the location. It's pretty easy to say NC, NEC, NET, SWT, SWC, etc. Or if you're from Mag and went to Clouding College to learn calling WK instead of Bay, EK instead of Hills, NN instead of North Camp. Garrison has a couple special names, WG for watergate, murdergate for the lower west gate, and east gate cause it's the gate in the east..... duh! Or hills has Cata wall which means it's entire outer west wall, or for bay this usually means the south outer wall.

Saying something like "blue at smc" says absolutely nothing, it could be a roamer at east wall, or 3 people at sw wall, or 30 people at north outer gate, it's a giant objective, all the outer walls can be broken, it's has two north inner gates, so be specific on your calls. Saying "30+ blue garri wg 3 golems" or "20 green nw inner smc 2 rams" or "red zerg at net killing siege", is short and gives all the info everyone needs.

STOP BEING LAZY, THANK YOU FOR SCOUTING, AND HAVE A NICE DAY.

Thank you stalker for pointing out you're confused as usual. -->

The issue with just linking a location in chat is two fold. It masks the issue of someone asking for more information and someone saying there is an issue which is two different things. In one case it's a player not at the location asking to see if someone else is around, and in the other someone distracting scouts from scouting since they implied there is trouble in which case some scouts switch from scouts to responders.  Instead if they had simply even added even just something like 'eyes?' they would have shown I am not there and have no idea versus implying I am ankles deep in enemies and can't type more which is two different stories. Xen is right this impacts tags that might responded but also others like scouts and Havocs that might break from the tag to do those kind of things. 

There is also another issue embedded here. I appreciate that Anet added shortened name plates years ago but its also made players using them a bit lazy and confused. When a scout uses a server name, if you respond asking what color is that. Don't waste their time since it means you are probably are using the short plate name, instead hit your WvW key and figure out what color that is. If the scout is nice they will add both, but don't post a question you could figure out yourself. It's also funny since it seems these days that people using the short template think they can hide around a wall or tree or rock and they are hidden. Remember folks your settings don't change what other people see and those server names extend far outside of your toon if the other person is using long. So scouts, leave them long to better to see those stacks trying to hide. 

 

[Omega.6801]

So you're saying typing "HELP!" followed by "WHY NOBODY HELP?!?!?" followed by "Y'ALL NABS!!! NOBODY HELPING!!" isn't the be all and end all of scouting?

[Chaba.5410]

3 minutes ago, Omega.6801 said:

So you're saying typing "HELP!" followed by "WHY NOBODY HELP?!?!?" followed by "Y'ALL NABS!!! NOBODY HELPING!!" isn't the be all and end all of scouting?

Also INC!

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

7. But most importantly, do not ragequit

So sometimes when a objective is captured and the blame game will start. Like, don't start crying in chat about how we would have kept it if they listened to you, and you are no longer doing this because you are not appreciated or something. Come on now, nobody cares. The minimum age to play this game is at least 13, so please act appropriately.

In the grand scheme of things, losing things is not the end of the world. In fact most objectives are meant to be flipped. Just work on what to do now instead of kittening over spilled milk. .

 

This one is very important. A defender/scout that spent time and resources in a structure and gave waning might become bitter if no one responds when amply alerts were made. Looking at it from the flip side a scout should try and understand who/what is on for theirs side. Are there responders that might do so? Know your Roamers, Havocs and tags. Roamers are bit more of a wildcard since they could be anywhere, Havocs less so and tags even less that that. Is the tag is a defender if warned with good information, is it a Ktrain tag that is we will just take it back, fight tag or a gvg tag. Never assume anything on hidden tags and count them out since you will have no info on where they are at so better to assume they are off map.

Now on the other side if lose a structure, don't blame your scouts since most scouts these days are more than likely moving around versus watching a single structure. So if you ask if there are eyes and don't see any replies, go look yourself. If you want to help your scouts out say that so that they know someone else is headed there since they were checking out something else.

In either case if you find you are getting frustrated don't be stubborn, switch roles and move to the attack side of the equation for some payback.

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Here the thing OP. Players Scouting get no Participation and reward for doing the hard work of relaying info and scouting for defense. Before you antagonize those players that take up the role, how about you push Anet to reward players that do this better than nearly nothing. Anything better than nothing. 

Xen's not, Xen does a good job of passing good info, we just have a lot of players that don't. The dichotomy of it is also in its irony. Tags that tell people to get off map unless they are in squad and then offer participation for someone to stand in a structure. Most scouts don't scout for the participation, they will grab that as they move around. They do it for various reasons; they want to be where the action is, they might want their side to win, they just might not want to lose their stuff.

Course I am biased, my game rules are keep our stuff, take theirs, kill them, try and not to lose.

[TheGrimm.5624]

15 hours ago, Twilightzone.7452 said:

our copy pasta

"Your scouting request has been denied because all you did was ping an objective which isn't very useful.  Please follow the proper format (location, enemy color, enemy numbers, enemy siege.)"

Only for our server "Scouts" to argue more about that then spending another 5 seconds to scout =(

Saw this, will throw an egg at you later.

Splat if you get there first, do me favor and I will send you some guild siege.

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, Sugar Min.5834 said:

WAIT... scouts still exist in WvW ??!!!

We were doing it with no or very little participation rewards and yet when things went wrong, the tags/squads are always fast to point fingers at you. Never their fault.

Bleh.

You know there are scouts on a map every time that people ask others to leave it so that they can fit more of their own.

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I remember scouting in 2012/2013, I was paying for tower/keep/camp upgrade, paying for siege engine, defending alone (yeah that's the only monet I got a little something for my effort and it often ended up with getting thrown back to the rally point), warning allies...

It worked "alright" until may/june 2013 and then the bulk of WvW players called themself the "karma train", never to fight another "karma train" head on, making sure to recap the objectives once the invuln state wear down and telling the scout that they are just useless and that they are messing with their sweet karma hoarding trip.

To be received by insults and not gratitude from your allies. To invest without gains. To take on the task that other despise. You scouts are the true heros of WvW.

This is where whenever we get posts asking to go back to the old system that makes me shake my head. It just tells me that player probably didn't spend all that gold and time upgrading a keep. When I use bitter that's where it comes from. What was even worse about the old system is you had to waste time in PvE to make the gold to upgrade the structure and then to have a ktrain come thru and your ktrain's response was we will just take it back, let us know where they are going so we can avoid them. Granted the GvG ones replies of the similar, let us know when they are out so we can fight them out here wasn't any better. Old system just built resentment between guilds.

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

But you never said that in the OP.

Just like a bad scouting report then.

All my snarky friends. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

People still care for PPT?

🙂 Keep your stuff, take theirs. Sure its also PPT, but its your stuff, they just don't know that their stuff is also your stuff that is overdue to be returned. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

Xen, I think you posted this to try and encourage me to cut back on coffee, not sure how I feel about that, you calling me cranky? But admit, I am now awake.

Edited March 17 by TheGrimm.5624

[XenesisII.1540]

18 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Xen, I think you posted this to try and encourage me to cut back on coffee, not sure how I feel about that, you calling me cranky? But admit, I am now awake.

🥓🥞🧇☕

[XenesisII.1540]

7 hours ago, Grave.5683 said:

Forgot the "Ask for shared participation" part.

Because my thread is simple about HOW to make a Scout Report in chat, not about how they should play the game as a scout or wvw in general.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

This one is very important. A defender/scout that spent time and resources in a structure and gave waning might become bitter if no one responds when amply alerts were made. Looking at it from the flip side a scout should try and understand who/what is on for theirs side. Are there responders that might do so? Know your Roamers, Havocs and tags. Roamers are bit more of a wildcard since they could be anywhere, Havocs less so and tags even less that that. Is the tag is a defender if warned with good information, is it a Ktrain tag that is we will just take it back, fight tag or a gvg tag. Never assume anything on hidden tags and count them out since you will have no info on where they are at so better to assume they are off map.

Now on the other side if lose a structure, don't blame your scouts since most scouts these days are more than likely moving around versus watching a single structure. So if you ask if there are eyes and don't see any replies, go look yourself. If you want to help your scouts out say that so that they know someone else is headed there since they were checking out something else.

In either case if you find you are getting frustrated don't be stubborn, switch roles and move to the attack side of the equation for some payback.

I think the issue here is that people spend too much time blaming other people and less about what they could have done better. Heck, the self aggrandizing is in this very thread.

If one truly thinks they have made no mistakes and can't improve, that's fine. Sometimes your server is garbage and there is nothing you can do. But in those cases this thread isn't exactly for them-- it's for people that want to learn so leave the emotional baggage out of here.

But sometimes you have to recognize defending is a team effort, and work with others that have a similar mindset and goals, and this is true with whatever you do.

Like yesterday I passed through our Anzalis and found someone working on the tower and draining supply. As our keep was under attack, and this tower was being trebbed, normally I would just let it flip. But since people were working on it I decided to humor it a bit and build ballista in a spot where the third server would definitely find some opportunistic groups to take the tower. And I also built 2 trebs to cow people running near the tower, because who the hell does that these days?

If I was solo defending the tower, I would not be able to hold it vs a large group, because you physically cannot repair the wall fast enough while doing other things. So you have to pick your own fights and such.

  

8 hours ago, Grave.5683 said:

And then there is the fact that the scout may not have the time to write it down due to holding off the attack solo and all he can do is  a ping.

This is why I wrote in some cases it's better to simply die and just take the time to explain things to people while dead. Or at least go towards lord when you are out of combat. In a lot of cases it's not worth Ramboing a sufficiently large group and this is about risk management too. If you die and there is literally nobody in the objective left, then it is not worth it.

Yes, you have to be alive to pull levers and such and throw disables. But in most cases, getting people to come to the keep is more important  especially if you know you have backup and if it is really that bad, then there's no problem with pulling EWP early. (Later is far worse)

If things are that marginal so that literally every second counts, then chances are you're losing that objective anyways. Good scouting is about prevention, not wrangling it out of last second warnings. And yes, this is a failure of the team as a whole as opposed to any one individual.

One of our best scouts simply moves around between strategic locations and sometimes just parks where the enemy may go. In fact, we know where the enemy zerg is when we notice he's dead in squad and I guarantee you he is a better scout than most even though he is dead most of the time without saying much. 😆

Edited March 17 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheIceman.1039]

20 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Scouting is a very important job, and also an easy job.

If you want your team to respond faster then you need 3 pieces of information.

1. HOW MANY - Use an average if it's too much to count, if it's orange swords it's 25+, in which case you can say a zerg, if it gets to 40+ it's a blob. This is the most important piece of information for your team to respond appropriately, whether we need to send some roamers to a camp, or a zerg to a tower. This cannot and should not be the last piece of information you bother to provide, you want a fast response then put the numbers first or get ignored.

2. WHO DAT- Which side? color, or server name, or guild. Some guilds or server will get faster priority, some won't due to their reputations. Commanders need to know how much time they have to respond, especially if they're tied up in combat already.

3. LOCATION - And no, posting a LINK to the objective just because it has white swords doesn't cut it, if you're not there then ask for "Eyes on objective" so someone nearby can scout it. Many players will just ignore link calls with no additional information provided.

WHAT IS GOING ON - Do they have siege up? are they just killing siege on outer? are they just farting around farming roamers? Is there golems? do we have tactics?

WHAT YOU SHOULD LEARN - Use Outer and Inner as terms for keeps and smc, use Cardinal directions if multiple walls or gates are present such as in the keeps and smc. Use cardinal directions for calling out borderland objectives, no one remembers the names of three different borderland maps that have the same locations, and it's annoying to click on a link to check the location. It's pretty easy to say NC, NEC, NET, SWT, SWC, etc. Or if you're from Mag and went to Clouding College to learn calling WK instead of Bay, EK instead of Hills, NN instead of North Camp. Garrison has a couple special names, WG for watergate, murdergate for the lower west gate, and east gate cause it's the gate in the east..... duh! Or hills has Cata wall which means it's entire outer west wall, or for bay this usually means the south outer wall.

Saying something like "blue at smc" says absolutely nothing, it could be a roamer at east wall, or 3 people at sw wall, or 30 people at north outer gate, it's a giant objective, all the outer walls can be broken, it's has two north inner gates, so be specific on your calls. Saying "30+ blue garri wg 3 golems" or "20 green nw inner smc 2 rams" or "red zerg at net killing siege", is short and gives all the info everyone needs.

STOP BEING LAZY, THANK YOU FOR SCOUTING, AND HAVE A NICE DAY.

Thank you stalker for pointing out you're confused as usual. -->

You also forgot to mention Commanders who could grant participation rights to scouts. Or donate bags for good scouting.. (In case the squad is full).

[XenesisII.1540]

Just now, TheIceman.1039 said:

You also forgot to mention Commanders who could grant participation rights to scouts. Or donate bags for good scouting.. (In case the squad is full).

Because my thread is simple about HOW to make a Scout Report in chat, not about how they should play the game as a scout or wvw in general.

[Dadnir.5038]

Just now, XenesisII.1540 said:

Because my thread is simple about HOW to make a Scout Report in chat, not about how they should play the game as a scout or wvw in general.

The scout getting a reward could possibly lead to a good scout report. The scout being respected by the zerg could possibly lead to a good scout report. It's not about how the scout should play but more about how the zerg can get scouts that want to provide good report.

[ArchonWing.9480]

5 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Because my thread is simple about HOW to make a Scout Report in chat, not about how they should play the game as a scout or wvw in general.

If you are good enough of a scout, you can offer scouting in exchange for participation. This is actually a somewhat common practice with some of the larger tags.

Although it should be known that any group of 5+ people can also do this, if they make a squad and at least one has a tag.

Edited March 17 by ArchonWing.9480

[CutesySylveon.8290]

2 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

They're useful, but disablers can be denied by some random dude with Aegis that got hit by it.

Which is not hard to pop. You're more likely to be denied by Bubbles of some kind, but that's no reason to not throw them if the enemy isn't holding Rev bubbles or Shield Gens up. Smart groups spread out catas to prevent that but getting 2/3 is better than letting them all yeet for free.

[XenesisII.1540]

40 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The scout getting a reward could possibly lead to a good scout report. The scout being respected by the zerg could possibly lead to a good scout report. It's not about how the scout should play but more about how the zerg can get scouts that want to provide good report.

Oh so now to get someone to type a number in chat they need to get a reward? Ridiculous.

You want to get people to respect you as a scout, then give proper and accurate reports.

I give scout reports all the time, I'm never in any squad, I even track enemy zergs sometimes if I'm bored, and I ask for nothing in return, I don't expect a reward or praise, this isn't a "job". You're typing short form information into a chat, not curing kitten. However you go about your wvw game play and get your rewards of bags or participation is none of my business or my problem, whether you roam or zerg or sit around in objectives waiting for enemies, that's entirely up to the player alone, I'm not going to tell you how to play or how to perform a role in wvw, because I play however the kitten I want in wvw.

You ask for a reward? well here's one, when you give a proper report about an enemy, your side can respond in haste with appropriate numbers, they can come crush those enemies in which you can help tag or kill enemies and get rewards for their kills and maybe even the defense credit for more rewards. When you ping a location without any other context don't expect anyone else to take it seriously, don't expect anyone to be on time, and don't blame others for losing something because you couldn't be bothered to type a 1-2 digit number.

That's the problem with games these days, people play it like a job expect a reward for every little thing they do, I suppose that's the fault of the developer and games like this mentally conditioning players by dripping garbage quality rewards and fluff achievements for every little dumb thing they can think of.

This point is for commanders that like to mention "well that was a late call",  to cover up their 5mins delay to get to a fight, sometimes a scout gets there late so their report comes up as they get there, or "where were the scouts" when they're leading a map blob on them, if you want a permanent scout with early calls at a specific location then offer a participation slot. There we all happy now?

Lastly I'm ranting to keep the thread up top, insert your confused emotes now! -->

[Chaba.5410]

In one of my guilds we don't often bother with "scouts".  We have 1-2 players of our own guild doing the scouting for us while we are rallied.  We know who is reliable and makes good call outs and knows how to roam and not sit in a tower "scouting".  Often we know before pug scouts make call outs what's happening across a map.

Edited March 17 by Chaba.5410

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

16 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I'm on NA therefore my post is directed to NA, I have no business with EU.

I have no idea on the unwritten scouting rules for EU.

You guys like to tell us NA to stop commenting on EU stuff like link problems if we're not in EU.

So I don't comment on EU stuff.

Feel free to make your own thread about EU scouting.

Thanks for being confused about a simple discussion. -->

then please go to a NA exclusive forum or adjust your attitude. Either way is fine by me. 

But knowing that you are on NA did save me some time. Now I do not need to block you ingame. So thanks for that info.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Oh so now to get someone to type a number in chat they need to get a reward? Ridiculous.

You should ask yourself why people follow the zerg instead of scouting. The answer is that there is more to gain in following the zerg than there is to gain in scouting. Ultimately for the majority of player the game is all about what they can gain and only a small minority is altruist enough to do things for "free.

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

You're typing short form information into a chat, not curing kitten.

From experience, typing short form of information in chat isn't necessarily well received either. Maybe it work for you but, personally, I've been told in many instances that I shouldn't type such information in the chat. Neither on the map chat (because they are "fighting/recaping, they can't see it anyway!") nor on the discord chat (because it's for "important stuff and I don't have the 'right' to write anything there"). Most players that are willing to provide these scout reports are bound to face those walls which lead them to just not be willing to make those reports.

I comment on an answer that you give to someone that tell you that the commander giving incentive to players can motivate them to scout. Your answer to this comment was that it wasn't about how they should play as a scout (an answer that made no sense at all). My answer on another hand is that with some incentives and a bit of respect, players might make some effort to give accurate report as scouts.

[Wolfofdivinity.6251]

I just roam, I don't call out. I want all the lootbags for myself. To heck with ppt gimmie fresh souls!

[XenesisII.1540]

1 hour ago, VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. said:

then please go to a NA exclusive forum or adjust your attitude. Either way is fine by me. 

But knowing that you are on NA did save me some time. Now I do not need to block you ingame. So thanks for that info.

Go ahead and go to a EU exclusive forums too then.

You're welcome.