Listen, Scouts.

[XenesisII.1540]

37 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

You should ask yourself why people follow the zerg instead of scouting. The answer is that there is more to gain in following the zerg than there is to gain in scouting. Ultimately for the majority of player the game is all about what they can gain and only a small minority is altruist enough to do things for "free.

From experience, typing short form of information in chat isn't necessarily well received either. Maybe it work for you but, personally, I've been told in many instances that I shouldn't type such information in the chat. Neither on the map chat (because they are "fighting/recaping, they can't see it anyway!") nor on the discord chat (because it's for "important stuff and I don't have the 'right' to write anything there"). Most players that are willing to provide these scout reports are bound to face those walls which lead them to just not be willing to make those reports.

I've never seen a complaint about short form information, unless it's not coherent and gibberish that no one uses to describe places or things going on. And there are scouts that take 5-6 sentences to describe their reports, I've even seen people "RPing" their reports. Numbers, Side, Location, that's the minimum you need for a report, it's not complicated. Reports are to inform everyone on the map not just people involved in a fight somewhere else because not everyone is in that fight. The only time I switch myself off scouting is when a clown fight guild is on the map and they're not going to defend anything anyways.

I have no sympathy for players who sit in an objective and expect to get something for practically nothing. I spent the first 6-7 years of my wvw play time in a scouting/havoc guild who use to upgrade all 3 keeps on homebl and found time to do sneak golem rushes on enemy bl's. You don't need reward hand outs if you're active, it comes to you naturally from doing activities around the map.

Quote

I comment on an answer that you give to someone that tell you that the commander giving incentive to players can motivate them to scout. Your answer to this comment was that it wasn't about how they should play as a scout (an answer that made no sense at all). My answer on another hand is that with some incentives and a bit of respect, players might make some effort to give accurate report as scouts.

I replied to a person saying I "forgot" about shared participation, I didn't forget anything, my thread isn't about how a scout plays or how they earn rewards, that's for them to figure out. My thread is about how to give a coherent reports to the rest of us. Pretty simple thing. You guys want to write up how a scout should function in wvw, feel free to do so. You don't need rewards to motivate someone to write a proper report, is wvw a school? you will only get motivated to fill in the information if you can get an A? is wvw a job? you will only get motivated to fill in the proper information if you're going to get bonus pay?

You want respect, it's earned. You want rewards, show up at the battle you're scouting, go around the map and actually defend.

You don't want to make it easier for your side with sloppy reports, that's fine, that motivates me to hit the block button (which btw I encourage people to use on me if my blunt replies offend you).

I felt like arguing today. 🤭☕

[Widebody.5071]

11 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I remember scouting in 2012/2013, I was paying for tower/keep/camp upgrade, paying for siege engine, defending alone (yeah that's the only monet I got a little something for my effort and it often ended up with getting thrown back to the rally point), warning allies...

It worked "alright" until may/june 2013 and then the bulk of WvW players called themself the "karma train", never to fight another "karma train" head on, making sure to recap the objectives once the invuln state wear down and telling the scout that they are just useless and that they are messing with their sweet karma hoarding trip.

To be received by insults and not gratitude from your allies. To invest without gains. To take on the task that other despise. You scouts are the true heros of WvW.

My man you hit the nail squarely on the head. In fact by defending and watching the home front you earn lifelong in-game distractors that'll come after you any chance they get. It's so laughable. makes you want to ask them, Who pissed in your cereal.

Edited March 17 by Widebody.5071

[splat.8169]

All salient points, but consumption of scouting is as important as providing scouting.

To be notified of enemy action AT ALL is a laudable and unexpected gift.

Intelligible, Actionable information is well... a Rare Treasure.

Having a person make note of enemy activity should be encouraged. And even more if they can follow the guidelines in the original post.

Practice helps.

Sometimes you can only note a few things while you're wildly careening about trying to drive and type at the same time.

Speed matters on emergency callouts. Clarification of information is huge though and affects reception.

The best scouting occurs from the field by players trailing the enemy group.

However, if you're sitting in fortification it's a fun past time to note every SINGLE enemy that comes into view.

Noting:

-Location

-Composition

-Number

-Direction

-Attitude/Demeanor

Also as a scout don't get bent out of shape if nothing happens and your post goes into the void. You should cultivate a nonchalance, If something happens cool, exciting even, if allied objectives get captured then it was meant to be. The best place to practice scouting is on maps where you're losing everything because there's lots of stuff to call out and probably not that many ppl to get bent of shape when you give goofy callouts. sometimes, ppl ask about stuff you've JUST described. Well, it's good that they're paying attention to the map at all.

[ArchonWing.9480]

5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

From experience, typing short form of information in chat isn't necessarily well received either. Maybe it work for you but, personally, I've been told in many instances that I shouldn't type such information in the chat. Neither on the map chat (because they are "fighting/recaping, they can't see it anyway!")

If I got told that I would tell them that their feedback has been received and will be promptly thrown in the trash.

I mean, they don't own the chat. Other pugs can see the messages.

This just sounds like an easy block.

I don't give a kitten who says what I can or can't say. If they don't like it they can block or report.

The only thing that would be a bad idea is constantly talking about a queued map in team chat but then it's team chat and nobody cares.

I think it is very important to find out who the defenders and scouts are on your server/link. This requires some.... scouting at times, but I've found almost like every link from t1-t4 NA has them if you know where to look. Now sometimes you just have a garbage link filled with nobody that plays as a team like my current link but even there it is possible. Though I suppose you could be playing during a dead timezone for the server too.

5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

nor on the discord chat (because it's for "important stuff and I don't have the 'right' to write anything there").

I mean, I'm not sure why you would be posting on Discord unless it's your own guild or server discord.  That would depend on the people that run it.

I suppose some servers may have dysfunctional discords owned by a control freak or two. I had zero respect for mine and never joined it and the trash guild that made it left anyways.  Well, I should be more specific, we had like 5-6 "server" discords and none were taken seriously.

But it's just pretty weird this gets  even brought up, though we don't have any context on the matter.

Edited March 18 by ArchonWing.9480

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

🥓🥞🧇☕

Bacon is love, bacon is life.

Well until that diner waitress forgets your order and then uses the excuse, no one needs that much bacon. Then your hopes are crushed and you go emo to the world. 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

>T3 bay Inc. 

>How many?

>Flipped.

All in 5 seconds. 

Name a better classic. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

 

 

12 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I think the issue here is that people spend too much time blaming other people and less about what they could have done better. Heck, the self aggrandizing is in this very thread.

Agree.

12 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

But sometimes you have to recognize defending is a team effort, and work with others that have a similar mindset and goals, and this is true with whatever you do.

Agree. This leads to being grumpy with others that did not help when you think you had defenses in places that others did not see as the same. You can build defenses but never assume others will use. So weigh and measure that in the resources to spend and time versus the reaction you might get to defend so you don't become bitter to lack of response. Those not included in the response have no skin the game so it comes down why would they respond is waht you have to measure.

12 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 So you have to pick your own fights and such.

This. Is the key for defenders to understand, when, where, what how. Spend what makes sense based on what you expect to be replied to and don't over do it based on how many you hope that reply. Unless you are running a paper tiger defense. If you know the other side is running a ktrain a paper tiger defense can drive them back, so again its matter of who/what when and adapt from there. Use your supply as it makes sense and drain or hold as it makes sense to the fight. 

To those that may just browse these subforums, there are lots of options and they vary, based on the what if factors. There are lots of right options depending on what if this....kind of thing.

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, TheIceman.1039 said:

You also forgot to mention Commanders who could grant participation rights to scouts. Or donate bags for good scouting.. (In case the squad is full).

But are these scouts or players not at objectives that didn't bother to ask a question of what was up since they saw min-map Xs?

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The scout getting a reward could possibly lead to a good scout report. The scout being respected by the zerg could possibly lead to a good scout report. It's not about how the scout should play but more about how the zerg can get scouts that want to provide good report.

lol, scouts don't care about rewards, else they wouldn't scout. This is less about scouts and more about players asking bad questions and acting like they are scouts. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Because my thread is simple about HOW to make a Scout Report in chat, not about how they should play the game as a scout or wvw in general.

Not wrong.

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

If you are good enough of a scout, you can offer scouting in exchange for participation. This is actually a somewhat common practice with some of the larger tags.

Although it should be known that any group of 5+ people can also do this, if they make a squad and at least one has a tag.

lol, if a scout is looking for a spot in a squad, they are probably not a scout but looking to leech. They need to stop afk wall running and get out to report, fight and take while they watch for activity they are around. Scouting and Havocing cross over quite a bit. I understand your point, the participation spot that was added by Anet was added during the days when people were told to stand in objectives and assigned to guard. I think most actual scouts these days move around much more than those days and multi-task more. If a scout asks for participation from a squad, they are more likely looking to AFK while still getting rewarded instead of being active while they do both activities.

Some of the times you see me reject group and squad invites is that I am multi-tasking both taking and guarding and in a group that will look more like squirrelling where as there is an order to my madness that may not be understood since I may already be in a couple of voice channels and as I get older that gets harder to do.

Not sure if you hunted with Lurk on SBI. We were off-havoing from our pug zerg. I was telling my havoc to deploy cats at two different targets other than where he was at to weaken them in case he moved that way after the target he was on, he asked, "Where are these cats being deployed? Who is this!?". Miss hit the different push to talks. So I try and limit how mnay voices are up as I get older. Was easier when younger in Warhammer and all were in TS3 and the same app could be used with different keys per channel. Or maybe, I am growing slower and slack over time, that could be fair too. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

58 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

>T3 bay Inc. 

>How many?

>Flipped.

All in 5 seconds. 

Name a better classic. 

Bay link, after flipped. lol

[TheGrimm.5624]

15 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Also INC!

Hey be nice. Inc at least implies a player is saying they aren't there but can see dots on the mini-map implying, right or wrong, that they are not there and that others should check the mini-map. 🙂 

All, I know is that I know nothing my friend. 

Edited March 18 by TheGrimm.5624
lol: nothing is known

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 hours ago, VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. said:

then please go to a NA exclusive forum or adjust your attitude. Either way is fine by me. 

But knowing that you are on NA did save me some time. Now I do not need to block you ingame. So thanks for that info.

So how is EU scouting different if I might ask? What standards do you see and are they consistent server to server?

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, splat.8169 said:

Also as a scout don't get bent out of shape if nothing happens and your post goes into the void.

lol, I will admit guilty. But that is less these days versus another server in T1 tourney days. When you would need to spend days in PvE to have gold to upgrade WvW structures to see them lost to ktrains. Yes I am old and grumpy. As my guild jokes we are also strong willed and determined, which is the same. 

Side note, did you get a chance to egg Sit? Have siege built and waiting to deploy. Let me know and mail inc.

Edited March 18 by TheGrimm.5624
Edit: In Destiny 2 the g-moto is also Stubborn Kitten.

[TheGrimm.5624]

🙂 Heya Xen, Yeah, its 4:30 AM and no coffee today. Edgar Alan Poe, WTW! I admit would have been awesome at Forum Wars 2 when peeps should be sleeping lol versus typing. Just no bacon, an early breakfast is already of interest. 

[XenesisII.1540]

27 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

If a scout asks for participation from a squad, they are more likely looking to AFK while still getting rewarded instead of being active while they do both activities.

Which is where the reputation and trust of a player comes into play, and giving proper coherent reports helps.

 

Just now, TheGrimm.5624 said:

🙂 Heya Xen, Yeah, its 4:30 AM and no coffee today. Edgar Alan Poe, WTW! I admit would have been awesome at Forum Wars 2 when peeps should be sleeping lol versus typing. Just no bacon, an early breakfast is already of interest. 

lol last post of the night.

☕ pretend it's hot chocolate. 🤭

[TheGrimm.5624]

Just now, XenesisII.1540 said:

lol last post of the night.

☕ pretend it's hot chocolate. 🤭

Yum, that would be tasty too. But then I would have to walk dogs and all the rest. Good resting when you seek it.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Which is where the reputation and trust of a player comes into play, and giving proper coherent reports helps.

Agree a scout giving good info is less interested in being in a squad more that they help in creating a fight at an objective. In my book that is also about keeping your stuff, taking theirs. Scouts next role, is reporting and taking theirs. So info on weakened points is also helpful to tags looking to bring numbers to bear against the other sides objectives. Report where, what you have built and numbers so your side can use this to take.  Its the same coin but the flip side. Don't report early to avoid trapping your side but advice if they are moving that way and you have opened points they can use. The more you can help them, the better your server will do. Even while currently winning means nothing. You are just better prepared if later it does again. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

lol, guildmates ask why I enjoy Forum Wars 2 so much, its all the peeps that make me laugh. Good hunting and bags to you all. Downside to us all, yuck, its Monday. See you on the other side. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

Luranni does an awesome job in motivating to win and hold what you have, love that.

This does the same, take and hold!

 

[Gop.8713]

On 3/16/2024 at 5:09 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

Many players will just ignore calls

lol scouts ; p

This one thing rings true tho ; )

Scouting was already in decline but the death knell was links. Once we all got thrown in with a bunch of strangers no one knew who to listen to, who was worth calling, etc. Then anet nerfed defenses so there's not really much point to try to hold on to things anyway. Was an amusing read tho . . .

4 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

>T3 bay Inc. 

>How many?

>Flipped.

All in 5 seconds. 

Name a better classic. 

> Outnumbered home, Green OJ up in swc . . .

> They on bay outer now with catas . . .

> Outer down, garri uncontested, ewp available, pulling when inner hits 50% . . .

> Inner fifty, <links ewp>

> Inner down . . .

> On lord . . .

> Flipped . . .

> WTF WHY WAS THERE NO CALL FOR HOME BAY !?@@@!1??

[DanAlcedo.3281]

56 minutes ago, Gop.8713 said:

lol scouts ; p

This one thing rings true tho ; )

Scouting was already in decline but the death knell was links. Once we all got thrown in with a bunch of strangers no one knew who to listen to, who was worth calling, etc. Then anet nerfed defenses so there's not really much point to try to hold on to things anyway. Was an amusing read tho . . .

> Outnumbered home, Green OJ up in swc . . .

> They on bay outer now with catas . . .

> Outer down, garri uncontested, ewp available, pulling when inner hits 50% . . .

> Inner fifty, <links ewp>

> Inner down . . .

> On lord . . .

> Flipped . . .

> WTF WHY WAS THERE NO CALL FOR HOME BAY !?@@@!1??

> WHY DIDN'T YOU PULL EWP????????? 

[misterman.1530]

I scout almost exclusively: Roam and Scout are my preferred.

Sometimes we are paired with a server filled with people who whine about scouting reports. I'll say "We're outnumbered in our BL" and within seconds will have "Well, I only care about EBG" or "You are posting too much".

Then when I say "Fire keep has swords. OMW to check" I immediately get "How many? Who is it? Is it a guild group? Where are they? We need this info." Or some such tirade.

This is why, and it totally depends on who we are paired with, I slack off on scouting reports in Team chat. The worst culprit was....well...I won't say a server name but it rhymes with Blagguma.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

5 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So how is EU scouting different if I might ask? What standards do you see and are they consistent server to server?

I do not see it differently. OP did.

The real difference is language barriers. That's it. And that is what I talked about in my first post in this thread. Which caused OP to go all aggressive, dismissive and overall disrespectful.