Worst unbalanced of all the games I've played

[Kazze.8405]

16 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

What DanAlcedo wrote can be interpreted as "Longbow Rangers being beaten by roamers is a common occurrence."

While there is a bit of snark to that post, I didn't detect any insulting undertone.

Fueki thanks for the clarification 

[Sansar.1302]

On 3/28/2024 at 10:59 AM, Kazze.8405 said:

I am 42 years old and have played several mmorpg and what I see in this game I have not seen in any. Guild wars 2 has the biggest imbalance I have seen. There are several of us that only play with archers and in this game it is a class that is useless. They even nerf it with every update. There are classes in world vs world with a thousand buffs and literally impossible to kill, stability in almost every skill. Thieves with permanent invisibility and a thousand more cheaters. Mesmer that 1 attack, 1 second, take 24mil life from you. 
No, we don't want to use a sword, mace, hammer, we like archers but in this game they don't work, confirmed, it doesn't have enough survival or sufficient attack with bow. There are classes that are god and it can't be like that.

Junk traits, such as the new carnivore and empathic link, now without stability. Either the one who makes these changes has a little mental lag and does not see the differences between classes or he has no explanation.
This game is getting worse and worse, more unbalanced and there are several of us who say that even our adventures in gw2 have arrived. Anet get your act together and do something because I see a bad future for the way you are going.

Sorry for my English, it is very bad and I use translator in some parts.

Greetings to all

Been playing Ranger from start and I never thought of it as a artcher. 

Always been playing as close quarter character. 

[Xelqypla.6817]

2 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Been playing Ranger from start and I never thought of it as a artcher. 

Always been playing as close quarter character. 

It seems some people believe that the name "ranger" comes from ranged weaponry, not land space or region.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

4 hours ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

It seems some people believe that the name "ranger" comes from ranged weaponry, not land space or region.

Alot of the community is like that unfortunately. But , to be honest that doesn't mean a ranger can still use a bow.

People don't realize that many tropes/archetype/ideas are borrowed or inspired from other sources. Not only that but who says the idea can even be expanded on depending on the world setting. Like maybe rangers will eventually get access to focus and sceptres? or perhap a pistol or rifle down the line? there have been cases were people were frustrated that we got maces for a weapon choice.

At the end of the day, player base doesn't dictate what a ranger truly is in this game, it comes down to the devs on how they want to portray it 🙂 and it elite specs.

[anduriell.6280]

Ranger used to have much more access to stability with traits, pulsing stability with rampage as one, stability in signets and pulsing stability in spirit of nature which would also follow you if traited for it. 
 

so when using core sets and skills sure it feels like ranger is missing a lot of CC defenses. Unfortunately new specs do not fill the spot of all the stability stripped away by anet balance team as they follow the rule of just adding one skill per new trait line. 

There was a time when the ranger could play with ranged weapons when the sicem soul beast was a thing on par with the d/p thieves on burst damage. They had to blow up 4 skills for that, the target would need to be afk  and  it caused a lot of whining in the forums but definitely was fun to play with. Nonetheless to say the nerfing rounds started almost immediately. 

I personally don’t find fun to lock stability access behind a weapon set as it takes away all the variety, the same as locking all the cleanses behind a trait line like WS. 

Yes I also think the balance is terrible not only from numbers perspective but also from mechanics wise point of view which makes the game extremely frustrating once you start to understand other classes.
Ranger seems to always have the short stick being any of the  good times only because  balance team errors and promptly nerfed. 
Meanwhile we get a second charge in a barrage skill (??) instead undoing the nerf to the damage previously done. 

[Assuk.2157]

14 hours ago, Xelqypla.6817 said:

It seems some people believe that the name "ranger" comes from ranged weaponry, not land space or region.

the main weapon of the ranger since gw1 is the bow, yes, he can use other weapons, but the ranger has been characterized by ranged attack with bow. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger

[Mell.4873]

On 3/28/2024 at 10:59 PM, Kazze.8405 said:

No, we don't want to use a sword, mace, hammer, we like archers but in this game they don't work, confirmed, it doesn't have enough survival or sufficient attack with bow. There are classes that are god and it can't be like that.

You can't have tried an Arrow Cart Soulbeast with two mobility pets or Untamed with double boon strip ambushes. It can devastate most small Zergs and can do pull off some good 1v1 in WvW. 

In terms of sPvP longbow and Shortbow can be built around. 

Edited March 31 by Mell.4873

[Kazze.8405]

7 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

good 1v1 in WvW.

you can teach that good 1 vs. 1

Edited March 31 by Kazze.8405

[Zyreva.1078]

17 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Ranger used to have much more access to stability with traits, pulsing stability with rampage as one, stability in signets and pulsing stability in spirit of nature which would also follow you if traited for it.

[...]Unfortunately new specs do not fill the spot of all the stability stripped away

Complete nonsense. Core ranger never had good access to stab. All ranger elite specs add more and better stab access than core and it has always been like that (stab in general was a lot less common back then).

There were times when ranger wasn't good anywhere but WvW solo roaming - it wasn't welcome in (instanced) PvE, not meta for competitive sPvP and a joke for WvW zergs. But now it is (and has been for quite a while) top tier in all those game modes/play styles. Thinking that ranger as a whole is in a bad spot is ridiculous, even more so when compared to core times.

It's the players that are bad, not the class.

17 hours ago, Assuk.2157 said:

the main weapon of the ranger since gw1 is the bow, yes, he can use other weapons, but the ranger has been characterized by ranged attack with bow. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger

Different game, different design. There has never been a "primary" weapon for ranger (or any class) in GW2. Bows are just an option among others.

[Assuk.2157]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

But now it is (and has been for quite a while) top tier in all those game modes/play styles. Thinking that ranger as a whole is in a bad spot is ridiculous, even more so when compared to core times.

It's the players that are bad, not the class.

An absurd comment. Ranger is not your main if you say these absurd comments. 
Yes it is true that you have to know how to handle the ranger, but to say that it is a higher level with a bow and that the player is the bad guy? 
I don't consider myself bad with the ranger but there are classes that are hitting a wall. There are classes that have a thousand buffs of resistance, blocking, stability and when they attack the ranger melee, as whoever attacks you has experience with his character, you are dead almost 90% of the time. The ranger when confronted lacks almost everything that the rest of the classes have. 
I repeat that if you say that it is the player's fault, you don't have a ranger as main. 
To the one who says that the ranger is at a higher level, I invite him to record a video of a session followed by at least 1 or 2 hours of wvw and show that he survives 1 v 1 fights and against people who know how to handle his character, not newbies.

[Dadnir.5038]

17 hours ago, Assuk.2157 said:

the main weapon of the ranger since gw1 is the bow, yes, he can use other weapons, but the ranger has been characterized by ranged attack with bow. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger

The professions in GW2 and GW1 have the same names but are very different.

When making a character in GW1 the main focus one should have is a focus on the primary attribute and profession's "feature". Everything else, you can get it through your secondary profession.

For ranger, the main appeal is the decrease in energy cost on many skills (unfortunately, spells weren't included), the "balanced" armor class, the few skills associated to expertise and the "not-so-great but not-to-bad" energy pool. Some of the most famous ranger builds had little to no use for a bow (ex: Ranger touch, Bunny thumper or Trapper).

Also, if you want to know I was "maining" ranger from profecy release to EotN. I've spent way to many hours on my ranger and if I look back objectively on those years, the best use I made of the bow was exploiting it's attack range to pull manageable amount of mobs toward my group. A job that would have been better done by the warrior since he was the "tank". On another hand, expertise gave me access to the most useful stances I could hope for (movement speed, dodging/blocking incoming projectile, trap CD reduction and the lovely whirling defense).

[Zyreva.1078]

34 minutes ago, Assuk.2157 said:

I repeat that if you say that it is the player's fault, you don't have a ranger as main. 
To the one who says that the ranger is at a higher level, I invite him to record a video of a session followed by at least 1 or 2 hours of wvw and show that he survives 1 v 1 fights and against people who know how to handle his character, not newbies.

Ranger main since almost 10 years. You can check out this where you can see me fight not one but multiple players at once. And while those are obviously not the best opponents, i can 1vs1 everyone just fine. If i die 1vs1 - which very rarely happens - it's because i messed up.

Fact is, the vast majority of players in WvW are bad and this is especially true for rangers. Probably because the class is very easy to get into and often recommended for new players, but it also gives players the impression that they are better than they really are due to it's effectiveness at very low skill levels. That "easy effectiveness" quicky diminishes against better players, which doesn't mean ranger can't be effective still, but it just needs to be build and played properly, and that's where the majority fails.

Edited March 31 by Zyreva.1078

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Complete nonsense. Core ranger never had good access to stab. All ranger elite specs add more and better stab access than core and it has always been like that (stab in general was a lot less common back then).

Man now we gotta go into the wayback machine when I used to click my rez skills, was petrified of 1v2's I could probably actually win, and struggled with mesmer clones but still was pretty adept at roaming:

The important part here is look at RaO--it was legit like SIX seconds of stab that very few classes could strip (maybe just necro) and turned a ton of fights.  The pet also was responsive (thief kiting behind a wall from the bird lol), did damage, and despite swords backward #2 it was a menace.   Was probably the last time I used torch too as it's still stuck in 2014...but yeah.  

Anyway, it's not that the players are bad, as a lot of us have been here since the start--it's legit because the class is a shell of what it was.  You posted it yourself, all that's left is bunker Druid that only fights outnumbered because it's a cele bunker.  Try outnumbered on something with little to no stealth and non-cele--do we still blame the players for being bad / dying?

Ranger is useable, sure.  It's just not fun at the moment.  To make it fun or to be like the old way above, you have to be super skilled now as everything else is literally super powered. 

It's not even debatable for me--I could (and may) make a roaming video showing people losing to something like maces in WvW, but that doesn't mean they're good, and it doesn't mean we blame the players for being bad tower rangers that only afk double barrage; it just means some of us have played ranger way too long and still enjoy it / able to make most out of nothing, despite a lot of things being entirely non-functional now (i.e. the pet).  

In the end though, I kinda want to remake that old outfit now--it is fashion wars afterall, and maybe simple and black is what is needed to describe the current state of ranger 😂.

[Mell.4873]

8 hours ago, Kazze.8405 said:

you can teach that good 1 vs. 1

You play it like Deadeye chain 3 for repositioning and use either the mobility pets on Soulbeast or Super speed on Untamed. 

Honestly reading more of your posts you should just play Guardian since they have more access to stab and have a Longbow. Ranger does not inherently mean ranged any more. 

Edited March 31 by Mell.4873

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The important part here is look at RaO--it was legit like SIX seconds of stab that very few classes could strip (maybe just necro) and turned a ton of fights.

On 2 minutes of cd and with 1s of cast time and if you happen to run into a terrormancer they could pretty much perma fear you with corrupts alone if you dare to use that skill. And for a long time that was the only source of stab that saw any use in a somewhat viable build.

Still gives decent amount of stab, but now on much shorter cd, just doesn't pulse anymore which is only relevant vs strips and those keep getting nerfed anyway.

Compared to something like dolyak stance it's nothing.

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Anyway, it's not that the players are bad, as a lot of us have been here since the start--it's legit because the class is a shell of what it was.  You posted it yourself, all that's left is bunker Druid that only fights outnumbered because it's a cele bunker.  Try outnumbered on something with little to no stealth and non-cele--do we still blame the players for being bad / dying?

But that applies to pretty much every class. It's cele or gtfo. Unless you are blowing up a bunch of afk squishies, or dueling power only or something like that, which ranger can do just fine too.

Most players ARE bad, even if they have been arround for years (i have run into a few of the forum rangers here that are constantly crying about how weak the class is, and guess what, all of them were bad).

(Pets being broken is my only class specific issue with ranger right now, but despite that the class is still in a very strong state).

Edited March 31 by Zyreva.1078

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Compared to something like dolyak stance it's nothing.

Dolyak is literally the most overloaded skill Ranger has, so of course 'it's nothing' lol.

If you enjoy cele bunker because you don't die and can do 3v1's vs other ranger that's great.  At least you are having fun.

Doesn't mean the class isn't a fraction of what it was though.  From mobile burst class to cele bunker is just, boring.  Extremely, utterly, boring.    

[Zyreva.1078]

4 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 From mobile burst class to cele bunker is just, boring.  Extremely, utterly, boring.    

Again, that's nothing specific to ranger, all classes suffer in this cele meta unless you take advantage of it.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Again, that's nothing specific to ranger, all classes suffer in this cele meta unless you take advantage of it.

WB cele power + burning burst, DD cele condi burst, Chrono power burst, Ele Fresh Air roamers, Shiro Burst, Nade Engi bursts (cele Mech, Scrapper)....

I've ran into or played with all of these in the past two days.  

They are all actual bursts though, as in you die in 2-3 seconds if you don't mitigate, cleanse, or dodge.  

Ranger has none of this--we have cele druid bunker with bleeds / poisons, maybe a few random burns (kite for 20 min and hope they die) or SLB power that are sustain / bunker as the burst has been nerfed out of OWP and the like.  Untamed is also power bunker now, just less effective than soulbeast at that role (think I've ran into one in three months).    

So based on that, I have to disagree that it's the cele meta doing this--they specifically are balancing ranger around melee bunker now.  We're essentially warriors with pets with all the drawbacks that come with it (practically melee only, CC's with no damage, slow telegraphed attacks).  

[AIex.4105]

I agree, I dont know why Anet hates rangers with bows and they want to make it a mele class with mele weapons is a worse version of the warrrior.

[Mystiz.8795]

On 3/30/2024 at 12:27 AM, Kazze.8405 said:

In my opinion, I give the example of a guardian, that not even 10 kill him, and I see that every day in wvw, same case a ranger, tell me if you survive the same, me and all the rangers I've talked to, they attack you in melee and more than 70% of the time you are dead.  Yesterday for example, trying to escape, they drag you, to the ground, to the ground, they drag you and you are dead. Another example that you all have seen in wvw with the thieves, 1 thief and between 5/10 behind him and he escapes and on the way he is killing. Balance is when all classes can do more or less the same. Now in Vabbi, there is a pair of guardian and thief at the exit hunting everyone who comes out, and there is no one who can with them. There were almost 10 of us and they have killed us all. No, there is no balance, there are classes that are gods, too many escape options, a thousand buffs that when you see it even scares and high attack.

In the past half a year or so, I've never lost to any power wb 1v1 on cele druid. I either win or they end up running away when low (of course I can't catch them then). As for cele wb, I've had one or two neverending fights, the rest I won. You need to predict the wb's burst and chain dodges/evade skills then. For power WBs, they open with a port in, burst with their F1, whirling light, sword skills, then swap to greatsword and so on. You do not want to trade damage with them during the initial burst. Just chain dodges and evades. If you get hit by sword 5 immob, lightning reflexes as they'll for sure burst. In fact, don't be afraid to use Lightning Reflexes or Protect Me even when you are not CC-ed, because power WBs don't have hard CCs. Once they're done with their initial burst, you can counter damage them. They cannot outsustain you, and once their elite has been used, they will die or run away. 

Willbenders are a noob stompers, but there are lots of builds that deals with it. Everyone always underestimates its initial burst, which also does decent AOE. So when one ports into the midst of three inexperienced players, they think they have the upperhand, try to trade damage, and get farmed. That is how you get those wb 1v5 montages. 

Edited April 1 by Mystiz.8795

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, AIex.4105 said:

worse version of the warrrior.

I actually think that Ranger is more effective and far less clunky in melee than Warrior is, even if it is less fun to me.

Edited April 1 by Fueki.4753

[Zyreva.1078]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

WB cele power + burning burst, DD cele condi burst, Chrono power burst, Ele Fresh Air roamers, Shiro Burst, Nade Engi bursts (cele Mech, Scrapper)....

I've ran into or played with all of these in the past two days. 

I've ran into all of those builds plenty of times too and they don't do anything vs a somewhat decently played cele build. Same as power ranger. And against squishies ranger (slb especially) still has plenty of burst with many ways of killing someone in 2-3 seconds. Doesn't even need OWP for that, so those nerfs aren't even that relevant.

WB is probably the only class that is actually better than ranger on power builds (and i'm confident a decently played power ranger can still win, so not an impossible matchup), the other's are about even or worse.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

I've ran into all of those builds plenty of times too and they don't do anything vs a somewhat decently played cele build.

But your lynchpin is 'somewhat decently played cele build' because cele stats are overtuned, way, way overtuned.  

I don't know how to say this, but I think cele may be carrying you to the point to where you think Ranger is somehow the best class in the game.  That's not to say you are a bad player mind, just that the stat set is so skewed its making Ranger look way better to you than it is.  

Anyway, if I say something like post up a roaming video of power ranger, you'll say you won't because its cele meta.  If I say show some sPvP footage, guessing you may say you 'don't play sPvP because its toxic'?

Regardless, it's super easy to find thief, wb, or mesmer roaming videos, bursting people down--even in a cele meta.  The only 'roaming videos' we get from ranger are cele bunker--because that's all that's left.  

[Zyreva.1078]

7 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

But your lynchpin is 'somewhat decently played cele build' because cele stats are overtuned, way, way overtuned. 

Wasn't too long ago that you disagreed even on that part, but well, guess we made at least some progress ...

7 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I don't know how to say this, but I think cele may be carrying you to the point to where you think Ranger is somehow the best class in the game.

Oh, i'm absolutely getting carried by cele. But it's not like i'm the only one playing cele, and i never have to face other cele builds and in cele vs cele it's hardly cele that is the carry factor. I also don't know how you come to the conclusion that i think "ranger is the best class in the game". I said it's good, because it can abuse cele quite well, better than some, but certainly not all other classes. Combined with the access to stealth and mobility that makes it a decent roamer.

And when it comes to burst, yt is full of videos of (mainly) slb blowing up people and while most of them might be older, OWP was never a neccessity for big numbers and that's the only thing that has been nerfed (and more than compensated for with sword buffs). So big burst is still absolutely there, among stealth and mobility, which are crucial for a "burst roamer" and something that many classes lack.

Ranger might not be at the top of the food chain in every single aspect, but it might be the most versatile roamer that can be adapted to pretty much any sort of playstyle, from cele bunker 1vX to full glass ganker, or a more "sustainy" power build for duels - all very much viable options. Other classes like ele or necro might excel with cele, but are weaker with a power setup for example, while thief might not be as good at abusing cele and spamming aoe for outnumbered fights, but ofc has the advantage of stealth spam and mobility to pick of weak targets one by one.

So as long cele is meta, ranger can abuse it well, and if cele ever gets nerfed, i'm confident that ranger would be fine too (in it's current state anyway).

 

Edited April 1 by Zyreva.1078

[Gotejjeken.1267]

13 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Wasn't too long ago that you disagreed even on that part, but well, guess we made at least some progress ...

True, but that was in July 23' (I remember one of my roaming videos having a cele harb that I fought / stalemated but didn't think it was too much at that point); now we don't have the ranger burst anymore, lot of patches since then to buff various classes (like WB), etc.  In current April 2024 meta, I think cele is carrying too much, yes.

13 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

So as long cele is meta, ranger can abuse it well, and if cele ever gets nerfed, i'm confident that ranger would be fine too (in it's current state anyway).

Partially agree, because I don't think ranger needs cele like other classes do.  You run your cele druid I run my trailblazer / apoc druid, both come out to condi bunkers in various facets--and both perform fine.  

Only disagreement I have is when we say ranger is 'fine' after numerous nerfs to it over the past 3-4 years.  There's not a ton of point to the class anymore really comparatively to others, and there are reasons people come for rangers first, even if they know the player is decent.  

It's probably an argument of preference though.  Ranger sits somewhere between thief and warrior--either bursty and mobile or tanky and mobile.  For me, it does neither particularly well comparatively, so I'm unsure where they balance from here.