Thoughts about GW3 [Merged]

[ledernierrempart.6871]

4 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

Yeah, its common sense really, GW2 is successful so it has great stuff, keep the great stuff and improve or add to it.

GW2 is successfull because it does not have much competition. (and it's not a bad game)
imagine, a mmorpg with barely any vertical progression, very casual pve for anyone to enjoy, multi branching (for the core story, not dlc) story missions, no monthly subs, not korean (with everything that this imply) and without any pay to win, actually the best tab target combat there is and with the only working WvW out there (well there is somehow aion and teso but one is outdated and the other is simply worse than GW2.)
GW2 is pretty unique in the mmorpg industry.
then there is the nostalgia factor.
and that's why GW2 is still popular despite all the issue it has.
saying that everything in GW2 is great because it is successfull is blind love.

Edited April 6 by ledernierrempart.6871

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, ledernierrempart.6871 said:

having everyone as mindless dps with random aggro goes against =>

have you tried raids? you actually have a healer and a pseudo tank (in fact still a dps but with a tiny bit more armor than evreyone else. usually a guard.) and everyone else as dps. with some condi focus and some power focus.
mimicking a bit who the trinity works without embrassing it completely.

the aggro system i spoke of do not force you to have a trinity. you could still go full dps team. but this tiome, with rules that disctate how the fight will play out instead of randomness that push you to just optimise your build to squeeze out the most dps you can with disregarding everything else.
and ultimately, this aggro system (and also the trinity system, but thats not what i am talking about here.) proved to be the best through years of gaming. GW2 tried to reinvent the wheel but it failed. sometimes you better improve on what works instead of trying to change everythign and make it worse.

I raided for 10 years in WOW at 25 hours a week so yes i have raided. Raiding in GW2 is a minority activity because its not aligned with the games USP which most people play for.  A big part of that USP is hybrid builds.  when you talk about 'aggro system' this actually infers manipulating the boss targeting to allow optimisation and specialisation of roles, and specialisation is the opposite of hybridisation. 

Edited April 6 by Bladestrom.6425

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, ledernierrempart.6871 said:

GW2 is successfull because it does not have much competition. (and it's not a bad game)
imagine, a mmorpg with barely any vertical progression, very casual pve for anyone to enjoy, multi branching (for the core story, not dlc) story missions, no monthly subs, not korean (with everything that this imply) and without any pay to win, actually the best tab target combat there is and with the only working WvW out there (well there is somehow aion and teso but one is outdated and the other is simply worse than GW2.)
GW2 is pretty unique in the mmorpg industry.
then there is the nostalgia factor.
and that's why GW2 is still popular despite all the issue it has.
saying that everything in GW2 is great because it is successfull is blind love.

i didnt say it was all great, i said it had great stuff in it, which it does otherwise you wouldn't have people spending literally thousands of hours in game. I also agree with your points, not sure what you are arguing against

Edited April 6 by Bladestrom.6425

[NapalmDest.1786]

I mostly just want better performance from the game. Seems more likely that would come with GW3 than them fixing the issue with the current engine. 

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

I don't see what there is to be excited about. They're most likely ceasing development of gw2 once gw3 is released, putting all the quality of life features that GW2 should have received into gw3.  Improving the graphics of what should have been gw2 graphical improvements and putting that into gw3, and they're fixing the terrible job they did on the code which should have never been put into gw2 in the  first place.  They're doing this all at the expense of our accounts, our expensive gemstore purchases, our legendaries, our titles, our achievement points, all of which im sure won't transfer over to gw3. 

Edited April 6 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

7 hours ago, ledernierrempart.6871 said:

he posted that in the first 30 seconds i made my post

FYI:  There are time-stamps on posts.  He/she posted 2 minutes (or more) after your post. 

[ledernierrempart.6871]

5 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

I raided for 10 years in WOW at 25 hours a week so yes i have raided. Raiding in GW2 is a minority activity because its not aligned with the games USP which most people play for.  A big part of that USP is hybrid builds.  when you talk about 'aggro system' this actually infers manipulating the boss targeting to allow optimisation and specialisation of roles, and specialisation is the opposite of hybridisation. 

i see where you come from. but the current system in gw2 sucks (for the reasons already mentionned before). so whatever the best system is, it's not the current one either.

[Gehenna.3625]

14 hours ago, NapalmDest.1786 said:

I mostly just want better performance from the game. Seems more likely that would come with GW3 than them fixing the issue with the current engine. 

Dunno if that's how it works. The new engine might have better performance for GW2 but that's not the context. It'll be GW3 with new stuff in it that will have to be balanced with the new engine's performance. They can't just make a GW3 with GW2 graphics after all. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Dunno if that's how it works. The new engine might have better performance for GW2 but that's not the context. It'll be GW3 with new stuff in it that will have to be balanced with the new engine's performance. They can't just make a GW3 with GW2 graphics after all. 

Agree.  The new gfx engine will be designed to take advantage of threading etc but offset with greater cost of better fidelity and support for 4k etc.  At best performance will be the same, and more likely to be lower.

[Astralporing.1957]

17 hours ago, NapalmDest.1786 said:

I mostly just want better performance from the game. Seems more likely that would come with GW3 than them fixing the issue with the current engine. 

New game means better graphics. Better graphics usually means lower performance. This, and UE was not orginally made for MMO games, and while they have made alot of improvements to that end throughout the new versions, it's still not its primary direction. UE5 game would probably have even worse performance on WvW than gw2 has.

Edited April 7 by Astralporing.1957

[Axelteas.7192]

I prefer the format of new expansions like the https://guildwars2.waveofshadow.com/ announced in april fools day, rather than a brand new game.

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

I prefer the format of new expansions like the https://guildwars2.waveofshadow.com/ announced in april fools day, rather than a brand new game.

Me, too, but not with the current low resources GW2 has. The quality would never meet the expectations.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Me, too, but not with the current low resources GW2 has. The quality would never meet the expectations.

That's not an argument. It's not like Anet would suddenly grow new resources for that new game either.

[hellsmachine.4085]

On 4/7/2024 at 7:44 AM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I don't see what there is to be excited about. They're most likely ceasing development of gw2 once gw3 is released, putting all the quality of life features that GW2 should have received into gw3.  Improving the graphics of what should have been gw2 graphical improvements and putting that into gw3, and they're fixing the terrible job they did on the code which should have never been put into gw2 in the  first place.  They're doing this all at the expense of our accounts, our expensive gemstore purchases, our legendaries, our titles, our achievement points, all of which im sure won't transfer over to gw3. 

That really depends. If GW3 is a flop and most people continue playing GW2 instead of 3 they might continue releasing content for GW2. Just look at Age of Empires 2, more people play that rather than the newer AoE games and it continues to get regular new content, despite it being a 24 year old game.

[ScurvyDog.2178]

I DO NOT NEED NOR WANT GW3............... GW2 is such a friggin good game and good community.  SO much potential to grow with a continuous game. 

Unfortunately, EXECS are veryyy good at taking something that is working well and "fixing it."
Usually they leave within a couple years of their position too, with a trail of kitten-ups in their wake, while they "move up" to "fix" more of what was working before them.

[Lily.1935]

As much as I've enjoyed guild wars 1 and guild wars 2 I've been ready for something new for half a decade now. Guild Wars 2 hit its peek during season 4 and since then its had its ups and downs for me, but its never quite got there. Even during that time its never quite scratched the itch I've been looking for in an MMO. Its gotten close and no other MMO has ever come as close as guild wars 2 has. But all things eventually come to an end and Guild Wars 2 has some major flaws with its design, engine, classes and general bloat that makes it harder to get into for newer players. I started the series when I was 15. I'm 35 now. And much of the community is pushing into the 30s and 40s like myself. Its hard to pull a younger audience into an old game like Guild Wars 2 and the older gamers are pretty set in their ways and are unlikely to switch to guild wars 2 let along stick with it. Considering that the audience for GW2 can't maintain its numbers indefinitely the next logical step is to release a new game. Whether that game be an MMO or not depends, but Guild Wars 2 being the only active game means that Arena net lives or dies on the title. This isn't a lasting position to be in for a gaming company. Considering Guild Wars 2 is relatively healthy its honestly the best time to work on and release another project.

With all that said, lets say they are working on a Guild Wars 3. Would Arena net learn from the mistakes of Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2? Maybe. System bloat is something Arena net needs to address in the next title for sure and certain elements need to be more recognizable for a general audience. While experimentation and new ideas are great for the genre, and Arena net should absolutely continue to push boundaries there needs to be enough familiarity to make the transition between games smoother.

Personally, I want a Guild Wars 3. And I'll list a few things I'd like to see for the game. Your list might be different but here's what I'd like based on what I loved about Guild Wars 1&2 as well as some ideas I think should be adopted from other games or new ideas entirely.
 

Energy and Adrenaline return

Energy and Adrenaline are interesting mechanics and should return as universal mechanics. This makes it easier to design armor, weapons and upgrades. that can function for any class as well as being used to balance certain skills. With energy and Adrenaline we can also more easily balance support builds and healers around it without them just spamming their best things off cooldown making the gameplay more thoughtful.

Anyone can wear Any Armor Tier

In Guild Wars 1 the difference between a warrior armor and a mesmer armor was significant. Warriors was around 30-50% damage reduction over the mesmers while in Guild Wars 2 the difference between light and heavy in terms of damage reduction is something like 5%? I don't remember the exact value but it isn't noticeable. For the next game I'd like to see the tier of armor to really have a major impact on your character. With High energy light armor and low defense while Medium is moderate in energy and defense and heavy is high defenses low energy. That alone doesn't make the system worth including so I have other ideas included in the next part.

Each Armor Tier has its own set bonuses

Guild Wars 2 decided to take the idea of set items found in games like Diablo or other ARPGs and created the Rune system so didn't have to hunt down specific armor pieces. But the rune system really didn't live up to what set items did and their impact although pretty important in guild wars 2 doesn't compare. So my idea was to make it so each armor tier has a small selection of sets in that tier that offer unique bonuses anyone can benefit from and wearing a full set offers more incentive to pick a specific armor tier beyond just its armor or energy levels. My thought is there would be 3 sets per tier at launch which capture the identity of that tier. So I'll use heavy as the example. Sentinel: Increase adrenaline gain when taking damage. Knights: Taking damage increases outgoing damage(stacking). Crusader: Taking damage gives a small bit of energy back. Each of them might have a bonus like that and later bonuses that relate to its overall theme. While not all armor sets are about taking damage heavy would be more prepared to take a hit. Medium might have bonuses which increase endurance regeneration and grant bonuses on dodge or could extend the duration of boons you apply to yourself or allies.

These are all just baseline ideas, nothing solid. But it could create situations were a class who normally wouldn't want to wear light armor suddenly does for its unique properties or take medium to be more nimble or give better party buffs to themselves or allies.

Skills and Traits Care about what weapon or armor tier you're using.

Guild wars 1 and 2 both do this for weapons but not for armor as it was never really a thing. But this is a thing in a more traditional game like Dungeons and Dragons and I think its something worth bringing into this sort of system. Although I think weapons shouldn't have skills on them innately, I think you should be able to equip skills to weapons that could use them. Like a Staff or scepter could have spells on them but you should be able to customize that load out more. Giving you a selection of Auto attacks and follow up skills based on your weapon choice. Shared skills would be nice as well. So say you're wielding a Dagger or a sword you might have access to a thrust attack you couldn't do with an axe. Or maybe there's common skills like Whirlwind strike which is just your spin to win skill that works on any blade weapon on your warrior.

With skills that care about armor this could get interesting. One skill I think would be a really cool build around would be one inspired by Barbarian Rage from D&D. A character buff that doesn't work in heavy armor but boosts offense and defense. This could be really fun to use with a Medium or light armor warrior, taking advantage of the rage on a high energy set of armor. Other skills like this could also care about your armor. Like perhaps you're an elementalist in heavy armor and getting struck while causes you to build up kinetic charges to release some form of static discharge.

Even more stuff

I'm going to stop here because I have so much I'd like to see but I don't want to break this down into multiple parts. A few more, Climbing, more dungeons, an actual threat and agro system, proper raiding, Energy burn, housing, improved crafting system, a bestiary, in game information as opposed to tabbing out to the wiki, reworked boon and condition system, improved hybrid action tab targeting system, better party finder, alliances, player run tournaments(PvP, racing, mini games), better pet AI and more pets, so on and so on....

Anyway not an exhaustive list but some ideas that have been floating around in my head. I've mostly been focused on how Armor and energy could be changed and improved since I find both GW1 and GW2's systems seriously lacking with positives and negatives for each.

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, ScurvyDog.2178 said:

I DO NOT NEED NOR WANT GW3............... GW2 is such a friggin good game and good community.  SO much potential to grow with a continuous game. 

Unfortunately, EXECS are veryyy good at taking something that is working well and "fixing it."
Usually they leave within a couple years of their position too, with a trail of kitten-ups in their wake, while they "move up" to "fix" more of what was working before them.

The problem is that as time goes on and the player base gets richer and get all the items attractive to them less and less gems are bought.  With no sub as well this is the ultimate death-knell of GW2 and this is why we need GW3.  

Edited April 8 by Bladestrom.6425

[Bladestrom.6425]

not sure what's so confusing about that, its not rocket science, but as an example I want to spend money on GW2, i would love to, but there is nothing left to buy.  I have:

- All the armor, pet/mount skins I want, all the utilities, full shared slots/templates etc etc.

- As a result of the vault I now have several thousand gold and 2 further legendries for selling on the way - and nothing to spend the gold on either!

- Even Black lion chest are pointless, see above.

I wont  be the only vet in this position that's for sure as I only play casually.

As long as they implement Hall of monuments in GW2 to recognise and carry on my achievements into GW3 then im sold and more than happy to put my money into a new GW world.

 

 

Edited April 8 by Bladestrom.6425

[Astralporing.1957]

51 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

The problem is that as time goes on and the player base gets richer and get all the items attractive to them less and less gems are bought.  With no sub as well this is the ultimate death-knell of GW2 and this is why we need GW3.  

The quarterly income statements from GW2 that NCSoft was releasing do not seem to support that theory.

[Bladestrom.6425]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The quarterly income statements from GW2 that NCSoft was releasing do not seem to support that theory.

Its safe to say they will be projecting forward 5-10 years because of the lead time.  If they are developing GW3 its because they evidently do see that the profits will be bigger and conversely obviously they don't see the profits in GW2 (since GW3 will push it into maintenance mode)

Edited April 8 by Bladestrom.6425

[Astralporing.1957]

31 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

Its safe to say they will be projecting forward 5-10 years because of the lead time.  If they are developing GW3 its because they evidently do see that the profits will be bigger and conversely obviously they don't see the profits in GW2 (since GW3 will push it into maintenance mode)

Ah, yes, so they are making GW3, because they believe GW2 will stop giving profits after GW3 will sideline it and push it into maintenance mode. Yes, that's a logical conclusion, obviously we do need GW3 out well before GW3 will kill GW2 [/s]

[Bladestrom.6425]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Ah, yes, so they are making GW3, because they believe GW2 will stop giving profits after GW3 will sideline it and push it into maintenance mode. Yes, that's a logical conclusion, obviously we do need GW3 out well before GW3 will kill GW2 [/s]

i haven't a clue what you just said, but if Anet are developing GW3 then Ipso facto right.

[Gehenna.3625]

9 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Ah, yes, so they are making GW3, because they believe GW2 will stop giving profits after GW3 will sideline it and push it into maintenance mode. Yes, that's a logical conclusion, obviously we do need GW3 out well before GW3 will kill GW2 [/s]

Well, I think that making another game to get profit with is a smart idea. Especially when your studio's income is entirely dependent on one game that's been out for over 10 years. So making GW3 is a new game that can take over (though I still think they might want to do something else entirely as well but ok). And I do believe that GW2 sales will go down over time. The game gets older and older and there are new games coming out that might take players away. And for an old game to attract new players is a lot harder afaik.

I do expect there will be a moment in time where GW2 will not be profitable enough anymore to make more expansions. When that will be depends on various things but if interest goes down in GW2, which I believe it naturally will (as with other games), they might decide to make expansions even smaller or not at all. They might say, ok, this is the last expansion we do for GW2 but in 2 years we'll release GW3, for example.

Point is, we can't really say anything definite about what the future brings for GW2 with regards to expansions or when they will stop doing them etc. But I would be very surprised if GW2 will still garner enough level of interest from the player base once GW3 is out to warrant making more expansions for GW2. Time, as usual, will tell.

 

[Linken.6345]

6 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

The problem is that as time goes on and the player base gets richer and get all the items attractive to them less and less gems are bought.  With no sub as well this is the ultimate death-knell of GW2 and this is why we need GW3.  

You do know for people to use their in game riches on gems someone have to buy it for irl cash and sell it for gold right?

So it do not matter how rich the in game population is if noone buys gems and trade them in noone can buy anything for ingame gold to gem exchange.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You do know for people to use their in game riches on gems someone have to buy it for irl cash and sell it for gold right?

So it do not matter how rich the in game population is if noone buys gems and trade them in noone can buy anything for ingame gold to gem exchange.

Precisely. That's an ingenious system that lets Anet profit even from those that farm for gems ingame via the gold to gems exchange.