PvP Discussion: Maps

[Bazooka.3590]

Love the idea of smaller maps for 4v4, 3v3, 2v2 and 1v1 for duels.Maybe this way MM could make decent matches with low server population.If the Match Making consider too much time to wait for a 5v5 then it makes a 4v4 or a 3v3 but it makes a quality game not an unbalanced one.Bigger maps could be also awesome stuff but needs more ppl. to queue. I think if PVP will be useful one day many players will return and maybe new ones will come too.

[Hasdrim.1875]

I quite like most of the conquest maps we have right now. Paticularly like the balance between weight of secondary mechanics and point capping in the last two implemented. I find only two of them rather frustrating to play or slightly unbalanced.

• Legacy of the Foefire. Aside from some pathing issues that other people have commented already, I find the Lord mechanic not very engaging. It gives too many points for the effort it takes to kill, adding to the already snowbally nature of the map. Also promotes aiming towards an NPC rather than focusing on player interaction. I think the map would benefit from either:
  • Reducing the amount of points it gives to 100 or even 75. This way making it slightly more of a late game push mechanic.
  • Keeping the current point award but revamping the Lord itself so it’s more challenging to beat, or at least not soloable. You could straight up buff it’s health and damage or it’s assistant NPC’s… or you could even add mechanics not unlike those you used lately in PvE boss fights to make it more interesting. This may be an unpopular opinion but I think it could be worth considering.
• Temple of the Silent Storm. I find it quite frustrating that Tranquility gives such an immense advantage. Why not make it like Skyhammer? It could just uncap enemy points. To preserve map identity it maybe could pop a bubble on the points (like that of a guardian) to prevent enemy players from entering for ⅓ or half the tics it takes to capture it. This would give more opportunities for counterplay.

I really love the concept of Stronghold and the possibilities that this as a gamemode could bring to the table, it’s a bit disheartening to see it forgotten at one side, so it’s great news to hear you are thinking of reviewing it!

• Battle of Champion’s Dusk. I think the map has a great foundation, but it’s not well focused as it relies more on NPC interaction than player interaction. Here are some suggestions:
  • Merge the two supply spawns into one big pile at the center of the map, give players a reason to fight for supply as a central mechanic of the map.
  • Remove doorbreakers and archers altogether.
  • Make doors non-targetable by players or immune to player damage.
  • Give doorbreakers role to players. Once enough supply is stored in the team’s camp, a player can take an environmental weapon/bomb/mortar/whatever that can deal damage to doors. Or else, a player can channel a special action that allows him to damage the door.
  • Remove the Champion NPC’s. Instead make the player who channels become the Champion. This could be done in two ways:
  • A transformation like that of Necromancer’s lich form that lasts for a set amount of time and replaces all of the player’s skills.
  • The player who channels the Champion gains it’s aura and gets a special action skill corresponding to that Champion’s current Elite skill. Both of those effects would be lost if the player dies. The War Cry would remain the same once the channel is complete. This could also change the appearance of the player so it makes sense for them to unlock the skins. A player who carries the doorbreaker weapon/skill would lose it if it becomes the Champion.

Not much else comes to mind right now about this topic. Thanks for letting us have this conversation and keep up the good work!

[breno.5423]

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

Up

[OriOri.8724]

@Cynz.9437 said:Example of no valid path which leads to death in many cases:

Can we have maps looked at from this perspective please?This also includes coal cart at mine that is heavily abused by any half decent player: as long as you stand on it, you can't use ports nor someone can port to you so someone can push you into cart and you can't use stunbreak -> you die. There are quite few spots like this across maps and they are just being abused by anyone who knows them. I don't think classes that don't rely on ports really need that much more advantage.

I don't think this is something the PvP devs should be looking at, but the balance devs. This is a skill that isn't functioning properly, for whatever reason. Its impossible for a dev to go through and find every possible place on each map that has port problems, at best they could just do the most high profile few and then have to focus on something else. Having the skill be reworked on the engine side to be more reliable would be a better way to fix it.

[Jinks.2057]

Deathmatch map that is like the Obsidian Sanctum so we can get proper 10v10 TDM's going.

[witcher.3197]

@Xillllix.3485 said:Stronghold could be adapted to 10v10 or 15v15 gvgs with bigger maps. It was even announced as being GvG...

You have misconceptions about what GvG means.

GW1 had GvG, an 8v8 fight with 2 bases where the main objective was to kill the enemy lord and maps usually had 2-3 lanes, with the middle one having a flag stand to fight over.

They kind of tried to recreate this but it simply wouldn't work in a game with as much cheese as GW2 so they tried to tie some roles to NPCs, which is where everything went wrong.

It was never advertised as a zerg clash in an open field.

[Ashgar.3024]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:Can we do something about foefire. It's inline layout is really bad to play on, particularly for low mobility class, it's points are far to easy to bunker, and the mechanic ridiculously favors teams with mesmers.We've talked about potential changes to Foefire before, but people got a little mad about. Reducing the size of mid to specially reduce bunkering was on our list of potential changes.We do have to be careful with changes to it, as in it's current state, it's one of the most popular maps. Even if I think it could be improved.

That change was mentioned around the same time as the Scourge's release though, if the 12/12 update makes them not as toxic to play again'st on smaller nodes i think it should still be considered.

[MakubeC.3026]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:General question about map thematics and design.

With the success of Colosseum do you feel there's a place in the game thematically that you as a team haven't explored and want to be it from lore or as an original concept new to GW2 ?

The new conquest map will be using desert assets. Is there a theme you'd really like to see?

Well, we are missing the Sylvari themed arena. And maybe also a more Charr based one.

[Namless.4028]

For Stronghold I see two "best" strategies:1: you rush with most of your team through the enemy base and mostly ignore defending2: you dont rush at all and just roam through the map, kill everything you see and wait for the timer to run out.

I dont think that the gamemode is intended to support either of these playstiles. To change that in my opinion the middle pit should be more valuable to control.the easiest way to achieve this would be to make doorbreakers easier to kill by players (maybe even onehit), the make a more tank stile doorbreaker, that needs 2 ressources to be cast (still a onehit by guards)

maybe add buffs on random points of the map that when interacted buff the movementspeed of your npcs, and/or decrase the movementspeed of the enemy npcs

Another Idea would be to create a true defensive champion that spawns in your own lordroom and helps defending, or spawns in the part between the first and second door (you can use tybalt and turai ossa for that also)

Maybe add a way to repair broken doors or to revive your guards (maybe using tons of supplies)

Overall I like Stronghold as a more casual pvp mode and I dont need it to be tweaked to be as competitive as conquest.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

We've talked about it a bit. Some of our current concerns are:

• Jumping up and down continually as a tactic
• The ease of accidentally using one

Any suggestions on how you think they should work?

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

@Ben K.6238 said:Stronghold might work a little better if the lanes crossed over, or if all lanes were both offensive and defensive like a standard MOBA.

Adjusting the lanes is certainly something we're talking about for a Stronghold revision.

[Morwath.9817]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

We've talked about it a bit. Some of our current concerns are:

• Jumping up and down continually as a tactic
• The ease of accidentally using one

Any suggestions on how you think they should work?

They could be like Bouncing Mushrooms, something you have to jump on, so you won't walk on them accidently.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

@"Cynz.9437" said:Example of no valid path which leads to death in many cases:

Can we have maps looked at from this perspective please?This also includes coal cart at mine that is heavily abused by any half decent player: as long as you stand on it, you can't use ports nor someone can port to you so someone can push you into cart and you can't use stunbreak -> you die. There are quite few spots like this across maps and they are just being abused by anyone who knows them. I don't think classes that don't rely on ports really need that much more advantage.

I'll have our map artist look at this. And hopefully, all maps again.

[Sihmm.9236]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

We've talked about it a bit. Some of our current concerns are:

• Jumping up and down continually as a tactic
• The ease of accidentally using one

Any suggestions on how you think they should work?

Someone suggested having to press the interact key to use them; perhaps also adding a short cooldown to the function would make each bounce more 'tactical' - so you can't just jump up, jump down, and jump up again.

[mixxed.5862]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

We've talked about it a bit. Some of our current concerns are:

• Jumping up and down continually as a tactic
• The ease of accidentally using one

Any suggestions on how you think they should work?

How about they only launch you when jumping on them. Would solve accidentally being flipped off. Mushrooms work the same way in hot maps if I'm not mistaken.

[Orpheal.8263]

hmm, I guess, i should better have read this thread before, soem of the other ones..Nice to see, that actually stronghold isnt't just trashed right after implementation and that you have not instantly forgotten it ...

[Darek.1836]

@mixxed.5862 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

We've talked about it a bit. Some of our current concerns are:

• Jumping up and down continually as a tactic
• The ease of accidentally using one

Any suggestions on how you think they should work?

How about they only launch you when jumping on them. Would solve accidentally being flipped off. Mushrooms work the same way in hot maps if I'm not mistaken.

Or have it interaction based (pressing F). Could easily put a 10s icd on it.

[Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.32]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

We've talked about it a bit. Some of our current concerns are:

• Jumping up and down continually as a tactic
• The ease of accidentally using one

Any suggestions on how you think they should work?

To add to that list of concerns, it cancelling channeled casts, (i.e., Guard Elite) is really really annoying

[TexZero.7910]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

We've talked about it a bit. Some of our current concerns are:

• Jumping up and down continually as a tactic
• The ease of accidentally using one

Any suggestions on how you think they should work?

They could be like Bouncing Mushrooms, something you have to jump on, so you won't walk on them accidently.

I would refrain from making them something you have to scale like BM. That tends to end up with places for players to get stuck in collision.

I'd leave it a pad, but force an interact key to be used. That allows you to place a cooldown on the pads / interaction as well.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Miles Smiles.8951 said:any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

We've talked about it a bit. Some of our current concerns are:

• Jumping up and down continually as a tactic
• The ease of accidentally using one

Any suggestions on how you think they should work?

Maybe make it so it doesn't bring its own mechanic at all and doesn't lock you in the jumping animation. E.g. make it so it just teleports you but has a cooldown, exactly like the pink portal to skyhammer booth (maybe with bigger cooldown or make them active only when skyham is active).

[Tiborb.1453]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:General question about map thematics and design.

With the success of Colosseum do you feel there's a place in the game thematically that you as a team haven't explored and want to be it from lore or as an original concept new to GW2 ?

The new conquest map will be using desert assets. Is there a theme you'd really like to see?

For main races: a sylvari themed map.We don't have any at the moment.

Then a Underworld themed one.

[Obindo.6802]

Fix please

[Cal Cohen.3527]

@"Obindo.6802" said:Fix please

ok

[Exedore.6320]

Stronghold Feedback

I'm not a huge fan of the mode, but if it can be improved to have more player interaction, I wouldn't mind playing it casually.

Problems

1. Lack of Player Interaction The best strategy is to ignore players as much as possible. CC them off NPCs while healing them (offense) or killing NPCs and running away from players (defense). For supply and heroes, you can use a pulsing or longer duration stability and grab them without worry about players; necros are your only concern.
2. Archers are pointless Doorbreakers are much faster at killing gates. Archers are barely more survivable than DBs. Players can dispatch guards quickly (the supposed main advantage of archers). Archers are distracted far too easily by players running near them. This makes supply pointless once both doors are down.
3. Gameplay Snowballs If you get behind, it's too easy for opponents to just keep up offensive pressure. When you're behind and your team wins a defensive fight, by the time you spawn NPCs, you have to go back and defend again. The NPCs take a good time to get to the other, so you have to win a second defensive fight to gain any advantage. Mist Heroes similarly take too long to realize any potential benefit.

Suggestions

1. Doorbreakers die/despawn after 1 attack Gate damage would be increased to compensate (25% of gate each) This accomplishes a few things: you can't break two gates with the initial supply; killing a single DB is more meaningful; defensive guards no longer need to one-shot DBs and players don't need to focus them as heavily (compared to players). This means players need to go and get supply and fight each other for that supply.
2. Damage breaks channels Adjust channel times accordingly. Instead of just popping stability and grabbing supply or mist essence, you now have to win a fight or control of the area. Supply piles will probably need separated a bit.
3. Buff Archers Allow them to continue moving between attacks. Force them to no longer chase off their path unless they're in the enemy lord room. They deal a bit more damage to gates. Archers are the "slow and steady" option compared to "fast but risky" with DBs.
4. Buff Heroes / Mist Essence Heroes move faster and use their elite on gates to deal a large chunk of damage to it. Capturing mist essence heals your lord by a large chunk or gives it temporary invulnerability. Make it worth it for the losing team to grab it. Consider reducing the power of their auras (only affect other NPCs?).
5. Change Trebuchet It should never have stripped full stacks of vulnerability - that was a gut reaction to stopping channels which didn't work. Remove the automatic resapwn (no longer needed since killing an attacker in your base makes them drop supply). In fact, consider removing it altogether. Removing it would keep players more focused.

[Cyczer.7834]

Here are my suggestions :

Legacy: Players being able to solo lords should change imo.Khylo: Mid node just favors any range dps/aoe class to nuke it from pretty much wherever they want, hard to counterplay against, area itself is waaaaaay too small.Forest: The buff should be better imo.Skyhammer: Increase the zone for the hammer .Capricorn: Increase the the zone for the bell.

Overall, due to mass use of aoe's in the game, melee dps is nearly unexistent except for specific classes, either increase node radius or lower the aoe radius of specific classes.