Warrior solution (Staff)

[Sahne.6950]

Just now, Myror.7521 said:

@Sahne.6950 well its 100% a PvP spec yes sir xd. It just makes the warr more defensive cause of how "don't pressure me" button

It might be one of the few specs that are actually designed with PvP in mind.

[Codename T.2847]

2 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Ngl i dread when I run into a Harb, Ele, Druid/Untamed, or Engi, they always tend to be uphill battles when decent players are playing them.  Ele wise I've ran into most forms of cata(and played one myself), scary FA weavers,  Strange Condi Tempest/Snoozer Bunker healers, and the rare dueler core ele. 

I am that rare dueler core ele, fear me 😈

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Sahne.6950 well its 100% a PvP spec yes sir xd. It just makes the warr more defensive cause of how "don't pressure me" button

I have a little mental gymnastics kind of thing for you.

i want you to think about how i can get of a single overload against a spellbreaker.

I can finish a overload after roughly 8-9 seconds of being in the attunement and channeling it.

 a Staffbreaker has 3 stuns on the weapon and classkits that each have a 12 second cooldown, he has bullscharge, AND rampage as utilityskills and elite ontop.

 The spellbreaker is pressuring me, but i am tempest! master of auras! Thats my classmechanic! 

i want to defend myself with a shockaura, which is the gameplan for dealing with meele pressure on tempest! 

how would you go about it? how do i get of even a single overload?

how do i "play around" someone using FC to block me out of my overloads.?

You said its simple.... just dont hit it.    so what would you do?   How will i use my sustain, without hitting his fullcounter?

(I hope you see where i am going with this)

Spoiler

There is nothing you can do in this situation. you need to realize just how hard of a counter/brickwall spellbreaker mechanics, mainly FC, are to alot of builds.

And thats also why someone saying "its that simple... dont hit the fullcounter", feels like a slap in the face.

the majority of builds have mechanics, or certain skills, which they cant simply "stop" to avoid the fullcounter.

For some builds, the sheer existance of Fullcounter, paired with 2 other really low cooldown CC´s means: I CANT PLAY THE GAME.

Feels bad man.

 

Edited April 12 by Sahne.6950

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

I am that rare dueler core ele, fear me 😈

no

[KryTiKaL.3125]

4 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

I have a little mental gymnastics kind of thing for you.

i want you to think about how i can get of a single overload against a spellbreaker.

I can finish a overload after roughly 8-9 seconds of being in the attunement and channeling it.

 a Staffbreaker has 3 stuns on the weapon and classkits that each have a 12 second cooldown, he has bullscharge, AND rampage as utilityskills and elite ontop.

 The spellbreaker is pressuring me, but i am tempest! master of auras! Thats my classmechanic! 

i want to defend myself with a shockaura, which is the gameplan for dealing with meele pressure on tempest! 

how would you go about it? how do i get of even a single overload?

how do i "play around" someone using FC to block me out of my overloads.?

You said its simple.... just dont hit it.    so what would you do?   How will i use my sustain, without hitting his fullcounter?

(I hope you see where i am going with this)

  Hide contents

There is nothing you can do in this situation. you need to realize just how hard of a counter/brickwall spellbreaker mechanics, mainly FC, are to alot of builds.

And thats also why someone saying "its that simple... dont hit the fullcounter", feels like a slap in the face.

the majority of builds have mechanics, or certain skills, which they cant simply "stop" to avoid the fullcounter.

For some builds, the sheer existance of Fullcounter, paired with 2 other really low cooldown CC´s means: I CANT PLAY THE GAME.

Feels bad man.

 

What do you do against daze spam mirage? Also you can intentionally trigger the FC, dodge or evade the attack so they don't get their burst trait benefits. At this point in the game, with the presence of basically most other meta builds on other classes Spellbreaker really is not as oppressive as you are illustrating it to be. Not to mention a simple 3 stack of Stability would completely negate these CCs you're having issues with, alongside any Blinds or Aegis which the majority of builds often accidentally have access to at this point. Warrior has some of, if not the most, telegraphed "core" skills in the game. Their burst skills are either a very visible wind up or leap, their CC skills also have visible windups or delayed activation (such as Bull's Charge and Shield Bash) as well as absolutely everything in their kit being tied to actually needing to hit with the burst skills, not just activate them. You can hard deny any Warrior build just by negating 3 to 4 (half of which they need to build Adrenaline to even use) specific hits with basically anything ranging from Blind, Aegis, Evades, dodges, blocks, and invulns, once you know what they are and their animations you're golden.

Now, granted, within the space of Conquest as a game mode FC and Rampage have always been stronger than they actually are purely because the size of capture points is abysmally small for a game with this kind of combat mechanics and the movement allowed so it has created an environment of heavy AoE which functions as area denial since most AoE radius take up most of, if not all or more, of the capture point space as well as just simply rotating away from a capture point if a matchup is "unfavorable" for a particular class.

Like I said in another post, any time Warrior seems to have just "a thing" in any capacity people cannot deal with it. And I am not referring to things like Defense Bladesworn or Defense Condizerker, or anything in the past like any time it has had bloated sustain (Shoutsworn) that absolutely needed to get toned down because apparently ANet can't figure what to do with the class. The amount of CC you are talking about on Spellbreaker is quite literally not new to the game. Not even when using Hammer with Staff. Hammer with Dagger/Shield has been a thing, or Greatsword Hammer. Hammer with Dagger/Shield has the same amount of CC as Hammer Staff Spellbreaker. Including a block. Does it have healing paired with these things? Yeah, but with the amount of burst I see the very class you are playing do, not to mention many other classes doing the very same, I really don't view it as being a problem. Ignoring the presence of Cele stats, though...that makes problems everywhere with everything which is why it got removed in sPvP.

[Flowki.7194]

9 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

--> HI <--

 

Not trynna kitten talk, pls dont understand it like that.

But if you are struggling against a ele, you are getting outskilled.   HARD.     or you are playing Ranger.

Ele can work in a vacuum. Infact its pretty okay for duelling in the FFA.  But it crumbles in a real conquest match, where mobility/ holding nodes/ outnumbering/ and snowballing come into the picture.     Alot of eles properties simply havent aged well or got completly shafted thanks to the sceptre rework.

Just take FAWeaver for example: its main defense used to be Superspeed kiting.   But nowadays you have less superspeed than berserker.....   You are getting outsped by guardians!  Whats the advantage here?   good damage?   My plasmabeam hits less than warrior sword4,..... so.. why play FAweaver?    Why the hassle?

Because its fun!  but thats where it stops sadly.

(i think we should stop derailing. Thread isnt rly about ele) x)

Thats basically ele in a nutshell now. There is not a single spec that is worth the effort for reward anymore, as there is an easier, more consistant alternative in another classes spec. Ele is like an old classic car, harder to drive, slower, completely impractical to use day to day, you just take it out for a spin every now and then to show off that fact you own one.

Edited April 12 by Flowki.7194

[Lucentfir.7430]

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Have they seriously never done this before?

Never. Whenever they make changes to weapons it's only ever been across the board for every spec and never just for a singular spec when slotted, as far as I can recall. 

 

7 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

I am that rare dueler core ele, fear me 😈

If they add celestial amulet back, maybe. 😆

Edited April 12 by Lucentfir.7430

[Yerlock.4678]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:46 AM, Myror.7521 said:

So since i now know what most peops struggle on this specific weapon. Please nerf staffs Burst skills dmg (core not zerker cause that one got nerfed too heavy) "Path to Victory" from 1.5 Power scaling to 1.0?

Sure that could get a small nerf, maybe bring some of the healing down with the healing coefficients going up to allow support stat builds to still be effective .

[Aaron.1294]

Increase cooldown on staff 4 ,remove healing entirely from Staff 2 maaaybe increase it's damage slightly, reduce healing on staff 5 but increase heal stacks with blocked hits, remove ad weakness on staff F1 and fix it because it is a movement skill for no reason,  increase cast time to 3/4 sec, decrease healing 

Boom, balanced weapon

[Myror.7521]

@Aaron.1294 well the weakness is coming from a traitline... no? So it would apply weakness even without it beeing part of the skill itself! Also big no to more cast time to its burst skill (more cast times will always make stuff clunky). Remove healing from staff 2 would kill the weapon for PvE content so maybe just nerf it to idk 0.001 so its still a heal but only for 45 max PvP/WvW only xd.

The Rest i would be okay with 😉

Edited April 13 by Myror.7521

[Flowki.7194]

16 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

Increase cooldown on staff 4 ,remove healing entirely from Staff 2 maaaybe increase it's damage slightly, reduce healing on staff 5 but increase heal stacks with blocked hits, remove ad weakness on staff F1 and fix it because it is a movement skill for no reason,  increase cast time to 3/4 sec, decrease healing 

Boom, balanced weapon

What even is the point of staff like this? Its just a dps stick then. I thought the whole point of staff was to make banner support specs more viable, with some group CC for added efficacy etc. It has achieved none of that, and simply makes warrior even more annoying in the 1 role it was already annoying in.

[Lighter.5631]

for what

staff warrior is completely fine within all the meta builds

also dedicated side noder is kitten in current ranked meta

Edited April 13 by Lighter.5631

[Flowki.7194]

16 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

for what

staff warrior is completely fine within all the meta builds

also dedicated side noder is kitten in current ranked meta

I don't think an easy spec that forces a 2v1 to kill in any reasonable time frame is healthy gameplay. In-fact I would also argue a hard spec in the right hands vs similar level players that forces a 2v1 is also unhealthy gameplay. The only specs that should be holding out 2v1 are full supports, being the trade off for doing next to no damage. At that, with the presense of a full support, you may be able to hold out 2v3, depending on situation. This game is kinde echo chambered to fk, and people are desensitised to how overeached and crept many dps specs are in almost all ways.

Edited April 13 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

What even is the point of staff like this? Its just a dps stick then. I thought the whole point of staff was to make banner support specs more viable, with some group CC for added efficacy etc. It has achieved none of that, and simply makes warrior even more annoying in the 1 role it was already annoying in.

See, the bolded I agree with. 

It is indeed strange how the dps sticks get less and less usable and the weapons that get introduced make existing roles more obnoxious, but this is a pattern. Bladesworn did this, condi zerker did this, and longbow spellbreaker did this, all alongside weird usability rollbacks for the stuff that doesnt easily work or buffs that don't effectively target the glassy options. 

The subtext is noteworthy though. Usable dps sticks are important.

Edited April 13 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

34 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

See, the bolded I agree with. 

It is indeed strange how the dps sticks get less and less usable and the weapons that get introduced make existing roles more obnoxious, but this is a pattern. Bladesworn did this, condi zerker did this, and longbow spellbreaker did this, all alongside weird usability rollbacks for the stuff that doesnt easily work or buffs that don't effectively target the glassy options. 

The subtext is noteworthy though. Usable dps sticks are important.

But this is too difficult to balance around. Look at ele staff tempest, you really want that weapon pumping out good DPS+utility/support? A dps staff sure, a support staff sure, but not both, it sounds great in concept but way too difficult to balance properly, while it also creates demi god celestial type specs that oppress full support or full dps specs.

 

Also, if a staff is not support oriented, it makes 0 sense for it to be doing predominantly physical damage, thats what swords etc are for. Staff tempest and herald staff are like this, absolutely laughable/none existant unique magic/condi damage, just lazy slapped on power co's, essentially making them a bow/2 hander mace with a staff skin.

Edited April 13 by Flowki.7194

[Aaron.1294]

@Flowki.7194big AoE cc, block that HEALS staff 3 that HEALS ,gives unblockable and F1 that HEALS and GIVES REGEN 

I don't rly get how healing reduction would benefit it being more annoying (warrior already has waay too much healing if you spec into support-what it doesn't have is something that can provide other ways of supporting which are greatly overshadowed by other classes - hence why support warr is either broken or bad)

@Myror.7521it rly doesn't need healing on top of it especially in gw2. And no - f1 does apply weakness by itself just like regen healing and damage. With trait we can get 6 sec of weakness 

 

Edited April 14 by Aaron.1294

[Myror.7521]

@Aaron.1294 well as said you need the healing of the weapon for PvE mainly (since it works there like druid with high burst healing but less access to boons like stability and Aegis). Also yea i noticed it today it does apply weakness even without the traitline ^^

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 4/12/2024 at 8:01 PM, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

What do you do against daze spam mirage?

Literally kill them, they're full glass with no cleanse. In WvW they're twice as effective as they are in PvP and even there they're far from a problem, no matter how much more powerful they get (much more interrupts because a lot more endurance due to food + perma vigor + sigil of energy giving a whole dodge instead of half; celestial gear; sigil of draining bumping up their damage to asinine levels). But you know very well yours is a troll take; there's a reason staff spellbreaker is played at any level and daze spam mirage is not.

On 4/12/2024 at 8:01 PM, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

any Blinds or Aegis which the majority of builds often accidentally have access to at this point. Warrior has some of, if not the most, telegraphed "core" skills in the game.

Dagger burst is unblockable, fc is unblockable, staff3 makes 3 skills unblockable. I never rely on blocks against spellbreakers. Nor on blinds, as wars get resistance on dodge and their cleanse is excellent anyway. SOMETIMES blind does work, but it's definitely not something I rely on, spellbreakers have plenty of ways around it.

On 4/12/2024 at 8:01 PM, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

You can hard deny any Warrior build just by negating 3 to 4 (half of which they need to build Adrenaline to even use) specific hits

Half a bar of adrenaline every 5s just by weapon swapping. A burst skill is 8s seconds cooldown. You get to use your burst skills just by weapon swapping even if you hit nothing but air; if you land them there's more, but you can't starve a spellbreaker out of adrenaline, they WILL get what they need anyway.

I'm not going to comment about negating dagger3 with 0.15s cast time.

You could outrange spellbreakers, but it's not trivial because for some reason they also have the best movement in the game right now and they will catch up to you (even without counting magebane tether). With mirage I've been able to outrun daredevils, willbenders and heralds but NOT spellbreakers. It's the strongest duelist and it also outruns any dedicated roamer, I have no clue how you warriors can defend this abomination.

Edited April 15 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Lighter.5631]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:15 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

I don't think an easy spec that forces a 2v1 to kill in any reasonable time frame is healthy gameplay. In-fact I would also argue a hard spec in the right hands vs similar level players that forces a 2v1 is also unhealthy gameplay. The only specs that should be holding out 2v1 are full supports, being the trade off for doing next to no damage. At that, with the presense of a full support, you may be able to hold out 2v3, depending on situation. This game is kinde echo chambered to fk, and people are desensitised to how overeached and crept many dps specs are in almost all ways.

get over it dude, nothing is healthier in this game than this.

stealth/teleport/instant cast/aoe/range spam

zapping around the map like it's 1 node map

is way more toxic than this.

people are just too dumb to play around a dedicated side noder now because they think their build can do anything so they just have their brain turns off.

you don't even need to 2v1 it just ignore it, play other 2 points and force it to team fight, get the other side node..but that's too much brain power needed for ranked nowadays

Edited April 15 by Lighter.5631

[Flowki.7194]

54 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

get over it dude, nothing is healthier in this game than this.

stealth/teleport/instant cast/aoe/range spam

zapping around the map like it's 1 node map

is way more toxic than this.

people are just too dumb to play around a dedicated side noder now because they think their build can do anything so they just have their brain turns off.

you don't even need to 2v1 it just ignore it, play other 2 points and force it to team fight, get the other side node..but that's too much brain power needed for ranked nowadays

LOL.

 

Your grand defense is that people should just play around an easy spec that denies area with minimal effort. To hell with skill based encounters.... just avoid side node PVP becuase warrior/druid. I'd sooner fight high mobile specs, becuase you can push them off, and keep them off the point with enough skill,  ONTOP OF being able to punish them hard if they make just moderate mistakes, everything side node warrior isnt. Tell me buddy, what does a SPB warrior have to do (bar AFK) to make a huge unrecoverable mistake? Forget to equip a second weapon maybe?

 

<ROCK, PAPER, WARRIOR> Thrilling gameplay.

Edited April 15 by Flowki.7194

[WingSwipe.3084]

By Grenth, Warriors get a month in the sun and the forums burn down.

[arazoth.7290]

6 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

By Grenth, Warriors get a month in the sun and the forums burn down.

This helps => EltaMD UV Clear Facial Sunscreen SPF 46

[Myror.7521]

What should i say ....... I eather duel and kill the spellbreaker myself or let someone hold him only to apear plus kill and go my way after some Seconds xd

But also im playing power zerker xD. Think everyone else would say "you counter a warr build with a warr build"

Edited April 16 by Myror.7521

[Sahne.6950]

Its kind of shocking that some people are okay with   "You can not beat this build no matter what! Just go elsewhere you dmbfk"

What kind of skillbased game is this, where the simple application of a memebattle.com build makes me autowin pretty much every 1v1?

Edited April 16 by Sahne.6950

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

"Just go elsewhere you dmbfk"

I can do that against slow and letargic duelists. Works against condi berserkers, hammer catalysts, fire weavers, druids, all various iterations of the same base formula "sit on node and kitten pulsing AoE". But good luck outrotating a staff spellbreaker, they're as fast as willbenders.

Edited April 16 by Terrorhuz.4695