Oh, to be a Thief main

[bethekey.8314]

 

Saving this video for posterity whenever Thieves get uppity about damage + defense. If you can be this lax about your defensive use, you might have too many. Note that this defense is paired with a 10k + 2 daze burst at the start, and I believe Larcenous Strikes hit 5k+ while stealing boons.

https://imgur.com/a/sed6Y3X

Also applies to Revenants currently.

Edited April 23 by bethekey.8314

[MilkyTea.9042]

Yeah thieves are kitten.

Sure is nice getting chunked for 75% of my hp to then get blinded when I try to react and oh look, they're also dodging annnnnnnd they're stealthed back up again. 🙄


Totally healthy game design.

[Flowki.7194]

Its kinde unfortunate but all specs in this game crutch hard on a mechanic or two, 1v1's has never been that fun to me for this reason. 

 

You know, if they had given everybody 3-5 dodges as base, and vigor by default on succesfull dodges, they could have reduced all class passive mitigations/block/invuln, stun/stab spam etc by a long way. 1v1s would have been far more fun, more skill indexed, and the few stuns that existed, mattered that much more. It is still laughable to me that cripple in this game is nion useless, as just about every spec spams passive counters to it. Imagine if cripple meant you couldnt dodge, and it wasnt so easily negated.

Edited April 23 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

Saving this video for posterity whenever Thieves get uppity about damage + defense. If you can be this lax about your defensive use, you might have too many. Note that this defense is paired with a 10k + 2 daze burst at the start, and I believe Larcenous Strikes hit 5k+ while stealing boons.

https://imgur.com/a/sed6Y3X

Also applies to Revenants currently.

💀 🍿

Shh you were supposed to wait until after stealth got nerfed to post this

Edited April 23 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

💀 🍿

Shh you were supposed to wait until after stealth got nerfed to post this

WHEN.

[Vancho.8750]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Its kinde unfortunate but all specs in this game crutch hard on a mechanic or two, 1v1's has never been that fun to me for this reason. 

 

You know, if they had given everybody 3-5 dodges as base, and vigor by default on succesfull dodges, they could have reduced all class passive mitigations/block/invuln, stun/stab spam etc by a long way. 1v1s would have been far more fun, more skill indexed, and the few stuns that existed, mattered that much more. It is still laughable to me that cripple in this game is nion useless, as just about every spec spams passive counters to it. Imagine if cripple meant you couldnt dodge, and it wasnt so easily negated.

Well criple does work, but on the slower professions/elites anything that has teleport ignores it and most probably has a way to remove it easily. Immobilize is the condi that doesn't let you dodge but again it works better on slower professions, thief has several ways out out of it , probably should have made their weakness ccs and CC conditions instead of the "damage" , before it kind of worked but generally if you had damage to kill a thief you could 2 shot everything else.

Edited April 23 by Vancho.8750

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

WHEN.

Idk when players nerf train hard enough

[JosephKatz.9375]

8 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

Saving this video for posterity whenever Thieves get uppity about damage + defense. If you can be this lax about your defensive use, you might have too many. Note that this defense is paired with a 10k + 2 daze burst at the start, and I believe Larcenous Strikes hit 5k+ while stealing boons.

https://imgur.com/a/sed6Y3X

Also applies to Revenants currently.

He used every bit of his kit and initiative exhaustion and only took you under 50% for a second before you healed up, you casually slapped your buttons and walked away scotch free per usual. Engineer nerf when??

I know you’re not playing holo in this instance, but we’ve been having 40% of the team composition be Holosmith for the last few weeks. What is going on balance team?? Bloated spec is still bloated years later. Dead game and all that I guess.

Edited April 24 by JosephKatz.9375

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Idk when players nerf train hard enough

TBH I just want the reveal applications to be pbaoes that don't need a target. That'll work.

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Shh you were supposed to wait until after stealth got nerfed to post this

I want content NOW.

To me, the best parts of this are:

- This isn't even Daredevil with an extra dodge.

- The Thief 100% has another dodge to add at the end there after Signet of Agility, putting the total evade chain to 12 at least. It equates to about 16+ seconds of fight where the Thief is in control / can't be hit by most skills. Against a worse player, I'd imagine most fights end in the first 10s after a 10k burst with 2 dazes.

- A teammate of mine could be attacking the Thief the entire time with no effect due to perma evade + Shadowstep, whereas I'd be dead instantly if +1'd.

- Thief gameplay is: steal333elite333(repeating of course), while I'm out here swapping kits, multi-blasting water fields, and timing interrupts to land big hits. I think I use 12 different abilities in the same span as the Thief uses 3.

- I manage to land one of, if not the hardest hitting ability Engi has (Rocket, 20 sec cd, projectile with massive flight time) during a well-timed Larcenous interrupt, and it only barely hits for more (6.3k) than the Thief's Larcenous Strike in the beginning (5.2k, spammable, low cd, unblockable).

Good luck achieving this kind of damage + defense on any Engineer build. Engineer is one of the easiest targets in the game and has been for a long time.

Edited April 24 by bethekey.8314

[Last Crab.6054]

Well, is core s/d meta now?

BTW, I think this is an odd showcase, and I'm willing to bet you killed the thief or they logged.

Edited April 24 by Last Crab.6054

[bethekey.8314]

3 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

Well, is core s/d meta now?

BTW, I think this is an odd showcase, and I'm willing to bet you killed the thief or they logged.

I get the impression from your post that you think this is ok?

[Myror.7521]

Its s/d daredevil..... of course he has good evades...... its main mechanic 3 skill is an evade. Also he just used everything possible to get this many evades. Sooooo yea no nerfs needed Here xd

Edited April 24 by Myror.7521

[bethekey.8314]

21 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

Its s/d daredevil..... of course he has good evades...... its main mechanic 3 skill is an evade. Also he just used everything possible to get this many evades. Sooooo yea no nerfs needed Here xd

Hoping that xd means you're trolling xd 🙂 No, it's not even Daredevil, I literally point this out for you:

4 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

- This isn't even Daredevil with an extra dodge.

And it's not just "good" evades. This is 16 seconds of chained evades, back to back. I don't care if the Thief "used everything", they're still doing damage during it and being nigh un-hittable during it.

Are there any non-troll, competent Thief players on the forums?

[Myror.7521]

@bethekey.8314 whoops sry. Yea its core xd. Still its s/d xD. Its second best skill is just a dodge Skill (Sword 3) ^^

 

[Endorphin.9147]

He couldn't kill you 1v1 and had to run away to reset. So what... Hes gonna come back and lose again?

(Sorry quoting someone who recently told me thief was bad)

[Sahne.6950]

The year is 2024.

Nadescrappers are officialy crying about Corethief, ALMOST being able to kill them. 

But Luckily that pesky thief had to return, as our hero, the nade scrapper, pressed a single button and deleted 60% of the thiefs healthbar in a heartbeat.

Thief obviously is the most overpowered thing since the invention of sliced bread! i mean...  He almost killed you.    100% needs a nerf.

 

You wanna know what would have happened, if he didnt chain 11 evades?      You would´ve land a second ability, and he would have died.  

People could beat you barehanded, and you would demand a nerf to hands.

Edited April 24 by Sahne.6950

[Chyro.1462]

Here, this link is very relevant. To be a thief main is to suffer. Why else would they request buffs like that?

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

This is 16 seconds of chained evades, back to back. I don't care if the Thief "used everything", they're still doing damage during it and being nigh un-hittable during it.

Are there any non-troll, competent Thief players on the forums?

competent thief player here. 

All you needed to do, was simply delay your hits a bit.

That thief was nonstop mashing 3.   While you were also nonstop pressing skills as fast as you can.

 A good player, doesnt use things back,to back, to back, to back.  Because it makes the timing VERY predictable, which is why the thief was able to evade your things so well.  

All you needed to do, was delay your action 0,5 seconds, and simply watch him do the 3.

Then you greet him with a CC at the end of his 3.

There is a big window after the 3, where he is vulnerable, but cant yet dodge again.   

 

If hitting this window is somehow to complicated, because of various reasons like ping/brainlag/whatever, you can purposefully let yourself get hit by the 3.

It doesnt deal that much dmg, but the skill will then flip over to a second skill, that is a boonrip hit, but the thief looses his evades in return.  You can use this window to counterpressure.  (i know you were low, but the 3 doesnt hurt enough to kill you there)

He burned his 2 dodges very early, if you wouldve let yourself hit on purpose, he wouldve ran out of evades 5 seconds into the fight.     Granted, that all you needed to do was hit him once more.... you could have ended the fight after 5 seconds.

 

If you need any more tips.   just ask.     Cuz being mad at core s/d thief is defo a skillissue.   That build has a shitton of holes you can abuse.  Just gotta know them.

Edited April 24 by Sahne.6950

[Last Crab.6054]

2 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I get the impression from your post that you think this is ok?

if you beat the thief, what is the issue?

didnt beat the thief fast enough?

[bethekey.8314]

45 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

 

Nadescrappers are officialy crying about Corethief, ALMOST being able to kill them. 

But Luckily that pesky thief had to return, as our hero, the nade scrapper, pressed a single button and deleted 60% of the thiefs healthbar in a heartbeat.

Thief obviously is the most overpowered thing since the invention of sliced bread! i mean...  He almost killed you.    100% needs a nerf.

 

You wanna know what would have happened, if he didnt chain 11 evades?      You would´ve land a second ability, and he would have died.  

People could beat you barehanded, and you would demand a nerf to hands.

Hey at least this one got Core Thief right, but I guess got confused on the Nade Scrapper part. Completely ignored the Thief steal+burst taking more of my HP (>60%) alongside 2x dazes from range, while implying my timed setup was the skill-less one.

I worry about the time when I face an actual good Thief with timing that can use the 11+ evades well. It's an amazing disconnect you seem to have, where the 11+ evades are fine, the Thief is oppressed despite them, and the problem is me not timing my skill use better, not the Thief.

From all the videos I've posted of degenerate mechanics, I must say, forum Thieves seem like the most triggered and ignorant group. Idk if it's worth delving into a real discussion until you all can read or watch the video closely enough to have a meaningful opinion on balance.

 

Here's a joke:

28 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

competent thief player here. 

28 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

 

All you needed to do, was simply delay your hits a bit.

All the Thief needed to do was delay their evades a bit.

30 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

That thief was nonstop mashing 3. 

30 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

A good player, doesnt use things back,to back, to back, to back.

30 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

which is why the thief was able to evade your things so well.  

Self explanatory contradiction.

32 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

All you needed to do, was delay your action 0,5 seconds, and simply watch him do the 3.

Then you greet him with a CC at the end of his 3.

There is a big window after the 3, where he is vulnerable, but cant yet dodge again.   

Your only remotely applicable advice and reasonable take. I know and do this, using it to land the Function Gyro + Rocket in the video. This advice only applies if you can afford to eat more damage though and I was at ~5k health. The main CC is dodged not by 3 spam, but by a double dodge.

Not everyone plays with <100 ping too.

34 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

 

If you need any more tips.   just ask.     Cuz being mad at core s/d thief is defo a skillissue.   That build has a shitton of holes you can abuse.  Just gotta know them.

The "you mad" and "demand nerf to hands" insults aren't warranted here. I'm only taking issue with the ability to use 11+ evades back to back in quick succession. That's the point of the video. I don't care if it's Core Thief, Core Engi, Meta, non-Meta, your Grandma, Obama, or Jesus. If it's a degenerate mechanic and it should be changed, ideally to healthier alternatives.

I've yet to see one of you outright claim that it's healthy, good, and deserves to be in the game. Only deflections.

[bethekey.8314]

36 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

if you beat the thief, what is the issue?

didnt beat the thief fast enough?

I value the game having less degenerate mechanics in play, regardless of class, which isn't based on who wins and who loses. I understand that might be all you care about.

You don't seem to add much to the discussions you're in and that's unfortunate. I'll ask my question again and just leave it then:

Do you think the evade chain shown in the video is good for and deserves to be in the game?

[Sahne.6950]

8 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

while implying my timed setup was the skill-less one.

you mistake, was not dodging, after eating Cloack and Dagger.  

Believe it or not.  but that was the mistake that lead to the 10k burst.

[Sahne.6950]

im 100% certain you are trolling.   

That guy couldnt even kill you, and you are here crying xD

[Sahne.6950]

40 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I'm only taking issue with the ability to use 11+ evades back to back in quick succession.

Then explain to me, what other option a s/d thief has to survive, besides chaining dodges.

Explain your train of thought.  Cuz in the clip, he missed a single evade and lost 60% of his hp.    a second missed evade, and he would be dead.

What do you want anet to do here?      nerf the fk outta sword?  Cuz he didnt even abuse stealth or any bs like that.  All he did was use sword 3 and core evades.  Whats the plan?       Nerf the evade frame?  

but wouldnt that just simply delete the build?  Cuz as you can see, this build cant take ANY hits.  he HAS to evade EVERYTHING.    

you see where i am going?    he couldnt even kill you.... but you want to nerf him?  why?   

That guy had to run, altho your were almsot solely doing a defensive rotation.... and that almost killed him.....      you CANT be serious. 

Having to dodge EVERYTHING is the highest form of skilldisplay.   a single wrong step, and you are toast.      Meanwhile i can pop arcane shield on ele and just rofl into someone unloading all my dmg.....   This build hasnt got ANYTHING like that.   your whole survivability is dependant on you, hitting dodge, should something come your way.

This skillbased build meets you, being half afk.... you eat its whole burst, but still survive.... you, in panic, use a offensive skill. and instantly set him to lower %health, then you are after his "op burst"..... and so he has to retreat, cuz he cant finish the kill, and a second hit would have him flapping over dead.   

 

What exactly made you think:  "THIS IS IT! I AM GOING TO CRY IN THE FORUMS!"😠

Edited April 24 by Sahne.6950