[POLL] Are You Ready For World Restructuring?

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I have no idea what’re even trying to say. Links or WR it’s the same players. Yeah the distribution of them is more random but total population would still be similar.

For the second part, yes that how hardcore guilds work. How many “normal” guilds exist in addition to that? If they kick you out, you where in the wrong alliance guild to begin with. And if they disband? Lol. The amount of guilds that has been created, died or reformed can probably be counted in the thousands yet WvW remains.

That's not the point of what I'm trying to explain. The point is the confrontation/competition in which all the players or fragments participate and everyone will put their game time/content to try to win this same competition. It's a server-based competition. So the comparison today is to my 2000 player team versus your 2000 player team. It doesn't matter how many fragments are inside a server. Tomorrow this will no longer be possible, because every 4 weeks we go to redo each server. First of all there is no longer a time perspective, if your server has won and wants to compare itself with other winning servers it will not be able to do so. The only thing you are guaranteed over time is your guild, so this comparison should move to a smaller guild scale. And we are in the problem I was pointing out earlier. Your guild is 500 players, my guild is 50 players. 

The second aspect is a consequence of the first. If the PvP player is deprived of the competitive aspect/confrontation at some point he will ask himself what is the reason to get involved, we are talking about purpose, a reason to participate in a group PvP game, on a dignified timeline, and better still capable of renewing himself as for example every year.

[Mabi black.1824]

What I'm writing seems quite true from what I see as a temporary result of this survey. That while representing an infinitely small part of the WVW community, if we pretend that this represents a mirror of the entire community we realize ( do we realize? ) that the reason why many (more than half) players ''play'' is related to their server and the community that that server contains.

Players put themselves to the test, to have access to an honest team confrontation prolonged over time. They want the same rules for all teams. They want ANET to guarantee similar teams (they should define a percentage threshold that must be respected for difference for players and hours of play in percentage terms beyond which you perform an extraordinary reset because the matches are outside a credible competition limit threshold) But above all, they want to be able to choose their team, participate, feel part of their team and the community they represent.

Edited May 17 by Mabi black.1824

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

And we are in the problem I was pointing out earlier. Your guild is 500 players, my guild is 50 players. 

So what is the problem? That’s not how WR works if you think that’s representative of two teams. If we “balance” these two in a bubble WR would for example fill out 450 players. Which can be a 250 man guild + another 50 man guild + a 100 man guild + 50 unguilded.

Also this ignore the fact that 500 man huge guilds “compete” with tiny 50 man guilds on a daily basis already, with the link system.

Quote

But above all, they want to be able to choose their team, participate, feel part of their team and the community they represent

Which just make the fear of WR and joining a player created community highly ironic, compared to being on a world where Anet can suddenly say “nope you don’t represent your world this month, you belong to these other people. Also, you’re now German”.

[Mabi black.1824]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

highly ironic, compared to being on a world where Anet can suddenly say “nope you don’t represent your world this month, you belong to these other people. Also, you’re now German”.

 yes, very often what players ask for is not what they get from development, it makes me smile even if maybe I should cry. 🤭

Edited May 17 by Mabi black.1824

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

none of the given options are relevant to my situation. I’m neither part of an alliance, nor am I planning to quit the game.

[XenesisII.1540]

22 minutes ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

none of the given options are relevant to my situation. I’m neither part of an alliance, nor am I planning to quit the game.

Seems I need to reword the 5th option as I guess.

 

[MedievalThings.5417]

It will look exactly like wvw looks today...except the server login name will be different.

[DeWolfe.2174]

17 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The amount of guilds that has been created, died or reformed can probably be counted in the thousands yet WvW remains.

It remains because WORLDS was and will always be far superior for building communities. When people join a World they had a right to be there and play as they wished, when they wished. That kind of agency and autonomy is why the mode has lasted for 12 years.

Giving the power over where we can play to a handful of players and devs is an incredibly bad decision. Add that to all the nerfs to defense and many are going to realize we're being setup as cannon fodder for a few rabid guild tags. Many of us will be smart enough to simply stop engaging with WvW. Or, pip farming is going to be new norm.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

7 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Seems I need to reword the 5th option as I guess.

"Don't Care - I'm solo, WR doesn't matter to me."

yeah, that's pretty much me.

[Dawdler.8521]

43 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said:

It remains because WORLDS was and will always be far superior for building communities. When people join a World they had a right to be there and play as they wished, when they wished. That kind of agency and autonomy is why the mode has lasted for 12 years.

Yet some of the main complaints over all these years is bandwagoning (which is seen as a negative, not a positive) and dead worlds due to low population. How odd.

Even for unguilded players their “community” in so many cases is no doubt centered around the familiar top commanders and whatever discord they link to, not the world. We see the cries for commanders every day. You know, the same commanders that bandwagon.

55 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said:

Many of us will be smart enough to simply stop engaging with WvW.

Only heard that after every other patch. WvW is neglected, poorly balanced, bugged with low rewards. I thought we kept playing it because none of us are smart.

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Seems I need to reword the 5th option as I guess.

 

lol, you need a leaf on the wind option my friend. Doing the same to see what the sort logic and initial placement does to try and provide feedback since I am mental. 

When my friends run me over, just remember: 

“Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio: a fellow
of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath
borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how
abhorred in my imagination it is! my gorge rims at
it. Here hung those lips that I have kissed I know
not how oft. Where be your gibes now? your
gambols? your songs? your flashes of merriment,
that were wont to set the table on a roar? Not one
now, to mock your own grinning? quite chap-fallen?”

lol, ok I admit too far, just be ready for me to joke you back. 🙂 All welcome on Forum Wars 2!

[Dagger.2035]

I've been waiting for this moment for years, but I'm afraid it's too little too late.  The game is for boon balls and karma trainers, if you like to play the game differently this game isn't for you.

[multiwickingerhabich.9867]

Anet destroys the community I will look for another game after all these years if Anet does that because WVW has always been my favorite but now everything is being destroyed thanks Anet.

[Glissando.6093]

I have played MMO's a long time. If there is one thing you can ALWAYS rely on in these games it's Guild Drama, and Anet wants to dump Servers communities for Guild created communities??? It's like they never saw a Guild collapse with some officer becoming a megalomaniac over night and taking over, or another officer running off with the Guild bank, or another officer kicking everyone out but his besties mid season/campaign/link or another officer running off with the Guild Leaders wife in RL and the Guild Leader shutting the whole guild scorched earth style.

I have seen all of the above and much more that makes it clear Guilds are not a reliable place to leave the formation of WvW teams to, its literally a kittening insane choice

[Dawdler.8521]

13 minutes ago, Glissando.6093 said:

I have played MMO's a long time. If there is one thing you can ALWAYS rely on in these games it's Guild Drama, and Anet wants to dump Servers communities for Guild created communities??? It's like they never saw a Guild collapse with some officer becoming a megalomaniac over night and taking over, or another officer running off with the Guild bank, or another officer kicking everyone out but his besties mid season/campaign/link or another officer running off with the Guild Leaders wife in RL and the Guild Leader shutting the whole guild scorched earth style.

I have seen all of the above and much more that makes it clear Guilds are not a reliable place to leave the formation of WvW teams to, its literally a kittening insane choice

Yet what people fear isn’t this, it’s that mega stacked super guilds of only the very best hardcore players exist. The typical stable kind of guilds.

Kind of funny, isn’t it?

[Glissando.6093]

Replying to me claiming that nothing i said is actually a valid point when i have played and seen Guild drama for years and GW2 problems for years and specifically WvW issues for years, is poor forum etiquette and honestly rude, you are not the only person with accurate takes. And I am not alone in this opinion anyway.

- All of the examples i mentioned came from large old 'STABLE' guilds of several years, all of them disbanded, I was in an old large Guild in GW2 that moved server without letting anyone know not that long ago, it collapsed 3 months later. Your point may be valid in terms of good players sticking together and causing one sided fights, but Guild drama collapsing a thinly held together alliance compared to the absolute stability of a server community, is an issue, both can be right.

 

What a lovely forum, people jumping down your neck with passive agressive comments seconds after you post a reply, nice welcome.

[DivineDreaming.7206]

5 hours ago, Glissando.6093 said:

What a lovely forum, people jumping down your neck with passive agressive comments seconds after you post a reply, nice welcome.

still way better than the classic wow b net forums, that place is awful. 

[Dawdler.8521]

5 hours ago, Glissando.6093 said:

Replying to me claiming that nothing i said is actually a valid point when i have played and seen Guild drama for years and GW2 problems for years and specifically WvW issues for years, is poor forum etiquette and honestly rude, you are not the only person with accurate takes. And I am not alone in this opinion anyway.

- All of the examples i mentioned came from large old 'STABLE' guilds of several years, all of them disbanded, I was in an old large Guild in GW2 that moved server without letting anyone know not that long ago, it collapsed 3 months later. Your point may be valid in terms of good players sticking together and causing one sided fights, but Guild drama collapsing a thinly held together alliance compared to the absolute stability of a server community, is an issue, both can be right.

 

What a lovely forum, people jumping down your neck with passive agressive comments seconds after you post a reply, nice welcome.

Sorry I guess the sarcasm wasn’t clear. Quite the contrary, you are correct. But that’s not what other people keep ranting about when it comes to WR - they are afraid that suddenly these drama llama guilds are going to become super stable stacked hardcore 500 man guilds with 50 man raids on every border at the same time.

And that is what’s funny. I agree with someone for once and it’s instantly seen as an attack, sigh.

[Ronin.4501]

On 5/16/2024 at 6:38 PM, Teleoceras.1298 said:

    On June 14th, I'll say goodbye to my beloved Fort Aspenwood which I have been with since beta and stay PvE. Without my server to fight for, WvW is dead to me.

Server pride died years ago. Even if you stayed, how many from your original community remained? I stuck with SBI for 10 years, through the mass exoduses, through the good times and bad, but when I eventually left all that remained were a handful of friends and far more strangers. The servers we remember are not the same servers we play on today, even if we're still on the same server we were on at launch.

I don't think WR is going to change a kitten thing. The same guilds will still stack with the same guilds. It will still be the "blob-haves" vs "the blob-have-nots", but in the end, I'm still playing with my friends. That's really all that matters. The rest of the game-mode has gone to kitten, and I think the majority here would agree with that sentiment. Doesn't really matter what server/shard you're on.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Sorry I guess the sarcasm wasn’t clear. Quite the contrary, you are correct. But that’s not what other people keep ranting about when it comes to WR - they are afraid that suddenly these drama llama guilds are going to become super stable stacked hardcore 500 man guilds with 50 man raids on every border at the same time.

And that is what’s funny. I agree with someone for once and it’s instantly seen as an attack, sigh.

And you wonder why I call you one of my snarky friends. Sometimes we have non-active posters that will miss the underlining point, which is when I try and poke you and other snarky friends. Forum Wars 2 open to all, but mind the audience as well, yes? Though I still owe you a, are you new here lol. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

Server pride died years ago. Even if you stayed, how many from your original community remained? I stuck with SBI for 10 years, through the mass exoduses, through the good times and bad, but when I eventually left all that remained were a handful of friends and far more strangers. The servers we remember are not the same servers we play on today, even if we're still on the same server we were on at launch.

I think that experience varies from person to person. Some servers have maintained their communities better than others and you and I know SBI was never exactly a good example of that, or well, anything.  But granted as Anet has neither cared about fostering communities either with guild or server, people have been left to fend for themselves.

That being said, if people really feel strong community ties to their server, then surely it would have been worth making a community guild as many have done over the years in preparation for this day. If they're not willing to do click a few buttons and pay 1g  then well...  were they that important?

I suppose there's an argument that said alliance could suffer a hostile takeover or something (though this already happens with servers these days), however that tends to be solved like subreddits work and just branch off. I suppose the guild system should need work.

I also suppose some will argue that this is all due to the fact Anet has made the game reach this state of dead servers and communities, and now they're really just outsourcing the responsibility to the Community and not actually willing to fix anything, so they'll just keep it like that until the game dies or something. But the game's already been out for 12 years-- there's not going to be any radical improvements so just take it for what it's worth. Or not.

What will be funny is watching alliances fall apart though. People that play together because they just want to win and not because they enjoy playing with each other is probably the biggest mistake of any guild/alliance. But at the end of the day, regardless of what happens, people need to find those with similar goals and preferences. 

Personally I would describe servers as neighborhoods. I mean yes, surely, each neighborhood has a flavor, but it's still defined by the people occupying them at the time you observe this. The neighborhood in itself doesn't mean anything as as you noted, can change much because after a few years it may not be the same people. So any loyalty is to the community itself, not the neighborhood itself.

A big criticism of the game is that it often feels like it's a lot of players playing solo than it is a multiplayer game. We'll see if this changes.

Edited May 19 by ArchonWing.9480

[MedievalThings.5417]

I'm not holding my breath for a positive change when they make things more "guild centered".  I mean, we already have people vomiting nonstop in team chat what should be in guild chat, just because they have a need for attention (or whatever their excuse is).  So, team chat is just drama, fake drama, or the weird simp-fest that keeps happening in ours.  Or, the same 2 people always shitting on or cursing at everyone in chat for not playing the way they want them to.  Or the people that spend all their time trying to justify their kitten online behavior is not that they are assholes, they are just RP'ing as one (which is the same thing).  Who am I kidding.  F... it, nuke the servers.  

[Mabi black.1824]

5 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

The rest of the game-mode has gone to kitten, and I think the majority here would agree with that sentiment. Doesn't really matter what server/shard you're on.

with a bit of irony. Don't think. you just need to read it here. This is a poll and apparently more than half of the players play in reference to their server/team. surprising? Are you sure you're surprised by this, in a team/server based game?

[ArchonWing.9480]

8 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

with a bit of irony. Don't think. you just need to read it here. This is a poll and apparently more than half of the players play in reference to their server/team. surprising? Are you sure you're surprised by this, in a team/server based game?

None of these things are mutually exclusive with what they said though, except for the "majority here" bit because one can never be too certain about that. But it's still not an unreasonable guess. And TBH I didn't know how the poll would turn out either.. It's a very slim majority and the poll itself had some issues with wording choices which left people out.

But let me explain the sentiment a bit more on why a person would think that.

At the very least the linkings dilluted the concepts a lot. To many, a lot of the smaller servers already ceased to exist in practice-- their home BL was no longer their home, but whatever their host's name was. When the enemy saw you, you were just your host server invader.  That in itself, wasn't the killing blow of course because maybe your server could recover enough to be a host.

Early in the game's development when they made megaservers, WvWers and others begged Anet to keep at least major cities server bound still so people would still have a hub, but as always it fell on deaf ears. They eventually released an out  of WvW hub behind a paywall....

But to be fair, that's still not enough to kill off things.

However, once monthly linkings happened, a lot of server links did indeed just become a revolving door where people would just transfer to cheap servers and by doing that they could indeed play with a variety of players just by being on a link. So to those players it really didn't matter what your server was anymore. Now when your server became big enough again to be a host it's because bandwagon #337 came aboard but they're just here to deplete what's left.

Add in to the fact with the utter joke of monthly link creation Anet did (or sometimes forgot entirely), which amounted little more than throwing darts so that servers were placed in matchups way out of their league and 1 month did not give any time to adjust (so hey, your server's doing well, but it's time for relinks so too bad!) and then it all become rather meaningless for a lot of players.

I think people who pushed for monthly linkings did so with the best of intentions and honestly in a healthier state of the game this should have worked. However, asking Anet to care about WvW at least once a month was just too much of an insurmountable task since they needed all those resources to reskin another skin to sell on the gem store.

So it is no surprise that Ronin here thinks the game mode has gone to kitten and a lot of the times it does not feel like the server matters. For those of you with strong enough communities that have survived to this point, I really do think it's unfortunate but most of you will be able to adapt. But this was only a matter of time and yes I pin about 90% of the responsibility on the devs for allowing things to get to this point.

And to be fair, I don't necessarily think guild run alliances are going to be any better because it's not like they've ever worked on the guild aspect of Gw2 that much either. But who knows, maybe they'll prove me wrong.

edit: But then again, I don't think server identity  completely died. So many people froth at the mouth even seeing the name Maguuma or Blackgate to this day, lol.

Edited May 19 by ArchonWing.9480

[TexZero.7910]

considering this changes absolutely nothing, yeah...i'm ready.

people gonna bandwagon anyway just like they already have been doing for 12 years only this time it's actively endorsed as opposed to frowned upon by so called "fight guilds".