Deadeye needs a nerf

[Fruit.7624]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

They are taking feedback for the next balance patch in June. You might get better results for considerations posting some feedback there. Sure it might not get in, but it would feedback they might consider. 

 

Anet considering feedback for roaming???? What are you smoking please give me some

[urd.8306]

It's not only Shadow Arts, it's Daredevil and Deadeye talents too and the elephant in the room: DPS numbers (but that's not a thief only problem)

Say you put a warrior, a thief and an Ele next to each other and give them their best scaling weapons and Berserker gear. Thief will hit highest. I tried this yesterday with some friends and different weapons. And the coefficients of the weapons and skills favor thief too.
You could argue that this is fine and I'd agree with that if thief hadn't that package of stealth, mobility, cleanse and burst.

The whole weapon coefficients are pretty much broken. Some are just too low and many are too high and it favors thief because of the whole evade/stealth gameplay.

[XenesisII.1540]

3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

They are taking feedback for the next balance patch in June.

Come on grimm, you know better than that...

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Come on grimm, you know better than that...

Its reset, I am required to have hope on resets. Or that's the story I am going with. 🙂

 

[SleepyBat.9034]

I fought a deadeye the other day. 5k Skirmishing Shots and 20k Malicious Death's Judgment.

[oatsnjuices.1698]

10 hours ago, DemonSeed.3528 said:

Gib me build so I can finally win WvW 

stealth on heal, stealth on utilities, 2 stealth on elite, stealth on dodge, stealth with snipers cover. snipers cover blocks all projectiles from every direction when standing in the middle, 3 shadow retreat that covers more distance than 2 infiltrators arrow, and with macros you can make it go forward or backwards. pressing 1 hits as hard as pressing any skill that has cooldown on any other class. 

 

You don't really need a build, if you have a grasp on game mechanics it takes a few weeks to get the hang of it. After that just dodge and watch them squirm.

Edited June 1 by oatsnjuices.1698

[urd.8306]

6 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I fought a deadeye the other day. 5k Skirmishing Shots and 20k Malicious Death's Judgment.

I remember a 6,9k hit from Cloak&Dagger from a Deadeye. 🥹
 

My point is that you should hit similar hard on identical gear which is never the case.
Example from this morning.
Berserker geared Core Revenant vs. smt Marauder Deadeye
2431 Skirmisher's Shot
7462 Malicious Death's Judgement
If I however are able to hit him with the hammer
583 Hammer Bolt
2464 Phase Smash

Yeah, I know Phase Smash hits more than 1 target, but what single target skill hits similar high?
 

 

 

 

Edited June 1 by urd.8306
numbers

[DemonSeed.3528]

7 hours ago, oatsnjuices.1698 said:

stealth on heal, stealth on utilities, 2 stealth on elite, stealth on dodge, stealth with snipers cover. snipers cover blocks all projectiles from every direction when standing in the middle, 3 shadow retreat that covers more distance than 2 infiltrators arrow, and with macros you can make it go forward or backwards. pressing 1 hits as hard as pressing any skill that has cooldown on any other class. 

 

You don't really need a build, if you have a grasp on game mechanics it takes a few weeks to get the hang of it. After that just dodge and watch them squirm.

I wasn't really being serious btw but thank you in any case haha. Btw hasn't it been ages since death's retreat got changed so that it uses more initiative so you can now only do 2 in a row?  

Edit: was it deaths advance? Nm, shadow retreat on harpoon underwater wiki entry incorrect? Says harpoon gun for shadow retreat. We're talking rifle build right? Unless I misunderstood but I'm still assuming deaths retreat/deaths advance

Edited June 1 by DemonSeed.3528
Rereading wiki

[urd.8306]

"only". Let's be serious.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Lol you don't have to dramatize it

[bq pd.2148]

3 hours ago, urd.8306 said:

I remember a 6,9k hit from Cloak&Dagger from a Deadeye. 🥹
 

My point is that you should hit similar hard on identical gear which is never the case.
Example from this morning.
Berserker geared Core Revenant vs. smt Marauder Deadeye
2431 Skirmisher's Shot
7462 Malicious Death's Judgement
If I however are able to hit him with the hammer
583 Hammer Bolt
2464 Phase Smash

Yeah, I know Phase Smash hits more than 1 target, but what single target skill hits similar high?

just the stats on equipment used are not enough to compare as you have to take into account the currently active modifiers from trait choices and boons.

i have rarely hit so low with my rev running not just full berserk, often you will hit harder than that against minstrel.

[urd.8306]

That's what I meant above. The whole coefficients (and boni from talents) are badly balanced. It's still way too much damage from a class that is visible 1/3 of the time you are fighting it and hits like a truck on heavy armor. The whole kit of thieves is way over the top. And it's most obvious on Deadeye, but very similar on Daredevil.
In the above mentioned example. Even with full boons (including Fury) and making that a 5k Phase Smash (or 8k) it wouldn't have changed the outcome, because he could have either disappeared forever or hit me again while my hit was sheer luck by anticipating his position.
The game lacks a general counter to stealth and thief (and maybe Power Mesmer) are the examples where it's pretty obvious.

[bq pd.2148]

10 minutes ago, urd.8306 said:

That's what I meant above. The whole coefficients (and boni from talents) are badly balanced. It's still way too much damage from a class that is visible 1/3 of the time you are fighting it and hits like a truck on heavy armor. The whole kit of thieves is way over the top. And it's most obvious on Deadeye, but very similar on Daredevil.

deadeye's iron sight is a very strong minor specifically in 1 vs 1. most revs i run into are even tankier by running salvation (+ against more than one target), but a rev could be running without it while a deadeye always comes with iron sight. 
overall thief is quite good at surviving 1 vs 1 fights and thus if given enough time also good at winning them.

however as most fights still are group fights, often beyond 5+ people in the mode, they are still insignificant. as long as they are the only class that is just terrible in large scale fights, their kit is not over the top for WvW.
 

26 minutes ago, urd.8306 said:

In the above mentioned example. Even with full boons (including Fury) and making that a 5k Phase Smash (or 8k) it wouldn't have changed the outcome, because he could have either disappeared forever or hit me again while my hit was sheer luck by anticipating his position.

you would have a much better chance with shortbow as ranged option, even on power build.

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

"HABITS AND BEHAVIORS NEVER LIE"

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance

 

“You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.”

-"Next time someone tries to convince you that they care, look at what they do, not what they say"-

Afternoon Burn. Oh I get it. More I recommend players to expect the balance devs to be elsewhere. Rubi we will be here. But the balance devs or WvW devs, probably only after Rubi points out a topic. So classes changes, might have higher odds elsewhere, but that's just my opinion, so could be wrong.

[urd.8306]

5 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

 

you would have a much better chance with shortbow as ranged option, even on power build.

Maybe, likely, but I wasn't on a roaming build, but tried to get back to my zerg. Doesn't change the problem imho that two specs with similar to identical gear have damage difference like that when one of them comes with a much better kit.
And I don't agree on the team fight thing, because thieves aren't only good 1v1 but can be great in team fights too, not as brawler, but securing kills, taking out parts of the enemy team.
It got a lot harder, yes, because the whole meta is an throwing around boons and banes  conditions all around you, but with two coordinated thieves you almost kill anything in WvW and it's very hard to defend and no way to escape (maybe with the exception of other broken things like Cele Harb or WillBender)

[SleepyBat.9034]

57 minutes ago, urd.8306 said:

Maybe, likely, but I wasn't on a roaming build, but tried to get back to my zerg. Doesn't change the problem imho that two specs with similar to identical gear have damage difference like that when one of them comes with a much better kit.
And I don't agree on the team fight thing, because thieves aren't only good 1v1 but can be great in team fights too, not as brawler, but securing kills, taking out parts of the enemy team.
It got a lot harder, yes, because the whole meta is an throwing around boons and banes  conditions all around you, but with two coordinated thieves you almost kill anything in WvW and it's very hard to defend and no way to escape (maybe with the exception of other broken things like Cele Harb or WillBender)

Even cele harb and willbender would lose to two thieves, or even 1 skilled deadeye.

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, urd.8306 said:

Maybe, likely, but I wasn't on a roaming build, but tried to get back to my zerg. Doesn't change the problem imho that two specs with similar to identical gear have damage difference like that when one of them comes with a much better kit.
And I don't agree on the team fight thing, because thieves aren't only good 1v1 but can be great in team fights too, not as brawler, but securing kills, taking out parts of the enemy team.
It got a lot harder, yes, because the whole meta is an throwing around boons and banes  conditions all around you, but with two coordinated thieves you almost kill anything in WvW and it's very hard to defend and no way to escape (maybe with the exception of other broken things like Cele Harb or WillBender)

when i said thief is terrible in larger scales, the same can be said for your core rev, cele harb or willbender.

however any class except thief does have at least one serviceable option for larger scales.
ele: support tempest - not meta but can do the job.
mesmer: support chrono and against less sweaty opponents dps mirage
necro: support scourge and lately more reapers again
ranger: heal druid - people do prefer heal vindi/scrapper but druid will still do.
engi: heal scrapper and overheat main
thief: -
rev: heal vindi, support renegade,  dps vindi is not quite meta but good enough
warrior: berserker for dps/stomp banner, potentially spellbreaker for less damage to add some more strips
guard: firebrand support  and potentially some DH if one has enough firebrands.

 

42 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Even cele harb and willbender would lose to two thieves, or even 1 skilled deadeye.

for 1 vs 1:
cele harb i find easier on axe thief due to more strips and higher burst than deadeye, but yes the fight should end either in the thief winning or a stalemate.
willbender should not kill any thief with regular stealth access as they do need to hit their target for all their virtue effects, so deadeye or axe bound thief should beat willbender or at least make them run away.

[oatsnjuices.1698]

10 hours ago, DemonSeed.3528 said:

I wasn't really being serious btw but thank you in any case haha. Btw hasn't it been ages since death's retreat got changed so that it uses more initiative so you can now only do 2 in a row?  

Edit: was it deaths advance? Nm, shadow retreat on harpoon underwater wiki entry incorrect? Says harpoon gun for shadow retreat. We're talking rifle build right? Unless I misunderstood but I'm still assuming deaths retreat/deaths advance

No i was speaking of deaths retreat. It can have a macro set where it about faces and moves the player forward. But yea, deaths advance is op with that 7th stealth added to the equation. The smokescreen is already too op, stand in the middle and never get ranged from any direction, and it stealths. De is overtuned, it can kill 3 competent thieves casually. Providing they arent sa bound with some tank to them.

Edited June 1 by oatsnjuices.1698

[oatsnjuices.1698]

if you want to see how balanced deadeye is, just watch twitch. Theres deadeyes there that dont die to 10 people, even when revealed. they are faster than anything in the game and have more evades than a daredevil. revealed doesnt beat them.

Edited June 2 by oatsnjuices.1698

[XenesisII.1540]

On 6/1/2024 at 11:53 PM, oatsnjuices.1698 said:

if you want to see how balanced deadeye is, just watch twitch. Theres deadeyes there that dont die to 10 people, even when revealed. they are faster than anything in the game and have more evades than a daredevil. revealed doesnt beat them.

Here you go one of the best.

https://www.twitch.tv/pnoyshinobi

[ChrisWhitey.9076]

I have never seen deadeye in boon ball which is the current meta. If anything deadeye needs a buff to do more damage.

[Codename T.2847]

3 hours ago, ChrisWhitey.9076 said:

I have never seen deadeye in boon ball which is the current meta. If anything deadeye needs a buff to do more damage.

Give a f*ck about boonball, thief having no place in zerg doesn't mean it needs buffs xD

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

ever since the latest reset, a deadeye has been trying to kill me with zero success. Barely any damage and not very tanky so all he do is run away once I fight back and yet, last time a logged in, I saw him farming people at the spawn =:/

maybe it's just a l2p issue?

[SleepyBat.9034]

7 hours ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

maybe it's just a l2p issue?

It's not.

[kash.9213]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:53 PM, oatsnjuices.1698 said:

if you want to see how balanced deadeye is, just watch twitch. Theres deadeyes there that dont die to 10 people, even when revealed. they are faster than anything in the game and have more evades than a daredevil. revealed doesnt beat them.

I haven't played DE much in a long time but it was Death's Retreat that made it's movement like you're describing clutch. That doesn't have evade though, it's just really fluid movement that can land you naturally where you want if you can deselect target or can play in Action Cam. It can also bounce or double bounce twice pretty quickly and then even a basic amount of movement or evades after that is still ready to roll. Death's Retreat didn't feel op on its own but with Silent Scope stealth to mask your intention to use it, it felt dirty.