Good job another overnerf on vindicator in pvp when you don't know what to balance 🤦

[Sahne.6950]

1 minute ago, Sereath.1428 said:

Heals every time you drop it for 709 HP.
100% more for every threshold.
Below 75% 1418
Below 50% 2127
Below 25% 2836

Was very cool and fun to use.

Thats nuts, ngl 😄

i thought this healing only affects allies, and is completly negated on you, cuz the urn is still counted as active.

Thx for educating me.

 

Then this is indeed a FAT nerf.  

yall convinced me.

[Sereath.1428]

It was very useful, for sure.
Lets see if Revenant suddenly disappears again from monthlies and such. (And nerfing Vindi is not going to make people suddenly play Herald or Renegade.)
Hard to tell because they did nerf other things as well that were very strong.
But still, very annoyed how they keep pushing it to just one playstyle, which is the same as current nerfed-Power Herald: hit and run. That's why active defences are everything.
Conquest is simply incompatible with the way GW2 was designed from the start, these problems will never go away.
Edit:
Right, Urn also drains your health, you cannot just stay in it and tank damage either. That's why you really only wanted to spam it.

Edited May 22 by Sereath.1428

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

12 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Just stinks of antifun and kneejerk nerfs

This has been the theme of Vindicator ever since the patch that allowed them to dodge twice. Their lack of foresight made vindactor brokenly op in the defense department, and they are still gutting the spec's defensive capabilities to this day.

And when you combine that with "quote pvpers unqoute" that throw a hissy fit and deem you op because you won't die in a millisecond, this is what you get. Stupid balancing that helps no one.

Doesn't help that the game is slowly entering maintenance mode. But hey, they gotta sell a few more dlcs that is far inferior compared to what we got from the likes of path of fire.

Edited May 22 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Angesombre.4630]

All thanks to our super new ultra-fun weapon, the sceptre (irony).
The perfectly balanced guardian doesn't appear in the 21 patch, that's the main thing.

With each patch I'm more and more disgusted with the revenant and GW2.

Edited May 22 by Angesombre.4630

[Shao.7236]

More meaningless nerfs that won't compensate for a broken design.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

Honesty, they just need to introduces other ways of indirectly buff and nerfing classes.

LIke couldn't anet just introduce newer sigils, relics and runes to help increase the dynamics of the current sets of profession and abilities we have?

We have something like demon queen which is a great start to sorta deal with healing in the game. Now all we need is other forms of stuff that can help deal with other problem.

Like imagine a Relic that can help reduces an enemy bonus stats, Like removing a bit of toughness on a player for short period of time?

[Flowki.7194]

This is also a completely uneccersary nerf to support vindi. I was looking forward to trying some more hybrid builds with the new amus but the urn nerf killed that off. In the two years I have played this game, I have not once seen a single complaint about urn. It wasn't actually that great on support anyway, you think Im goin to be able to camp that kitten for 10 seconds just to use twice? The team will be dead, its absolutely kitten poor game balancing.

 

I mean lets just look at it, everybody, including long time vindi mains, agreed deathdrop was too much (DAMAGE) and hammer refresh on 5, or hammer 4 was too much (DAMAGE).. wtf does that have to do with urn? Anet are a very strange company.

[Shagie.7612]

The urn nerf is a clear shot at dps vindi being able to toggle it rapidly for a lot of relatively low cost sustain while disengaging/kiting.

Everything else is collateral and I doubt they even so much as considered support builds.

e: I don't think the hammer nerfs were THAT large ultimately, though I'm not sure hammer 2 really needed it, and the changes didn't do a great job of addressing what actually makes Vindicator good and what everyone has a problem with.

We'll see what the preview brings tomorrow. You'd think with the state of Herald and Renegade and the trouble that Vindicator's given them constantly since its release, that the whole class would be lined up for some large scale changes and reworks.

Edited May 24 by Shagie.7612

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

The urn nerf is a clear shot at dps vindi being able to toggle it rapidly for a lot of relatively low cost sustain while disengaging/kiting.

Everything else is collateral and I doubt they even so much as considered support builds.

e: I don't think the hammer nerfs were THAT large ultimately, though I'm not sure hammer 2 really needed it, and the changes didn't do a great job of addressing what actually makes Vindicator good and what everyone has a problem with.

We'll see what the preview brings tomorrow. You'd think with the state of Herald and Renegade and the trouble that Vindicator's given them constantly since its release, that the whole class would be lined up for some large scale changes and reworks.

Can't wait for Revenant to be forced into Core with the balance patch preview because they said they were gonna focus on underwater combat. 

They also said they were gonna look at "underused" things but that could literally mean anything. 

Praying for Staff improvements but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Edited May 24 by Yasai.3549

[Angesombre.4630]

Anyway, I'm not waiting for anything other than nerfs to change habits....

[Buran.3796]

  Advance  of changes for the upcoming "big balance patch" in June are up:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features/2024-06-25_Preview

  Some improvements for Renegade in for of lowering energy cost and buffing some traits, some touches also in Herald. I won't play any of them anyway.

[Buran.3796]

Just saw most of EU MAT; did count 4 Vindis amongst the teams, one did reach the final, but the gerenral rule was the team with less Revs did won every time.

[Kyraios.8954]

Hammer hits like a wet noodle even going full glass cannon. going from 8k crits to 6k is an insane drop in damage. If your team doesn't have other forms of damage or if the enemy has some kind of support, hammer's damage is basically negligible

[Shao.7236]

On 5/31/2024 at 10:00 PM, Kyraios.8954 said:

Hammer hits like a wet noodle even going full glass cannon. going from 8k crits to 6k is an insane drop in damage. If your team doesn't have other forms of damage or if the enemy has some kind of support, hammer's damage is basically negligible

In all the years I've used hammer, damage never was an issue but all of the sudden it is. Surely that doesn't have to do with anything else it got mixed with right?

Implications aside. FotM hits too hard, the rest was always fine. Vindi over performs with Hammer (To no one surprise.) until they fix the real problems with it.

[Jobber.6348]

3 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

In all the years I've used hammer, damage never was an issue but all of the sudden it is. Surely that doesn't have to do with anything else it got mixed with right?

Implications aside. FotM hits too hard, the rest was always fine. Vindi over performs with Hammer (To no one surprise.) until they fix the real problems with it.

I still feel that it's rather annoying that Power Revenant has no satisfying swap to fill your damage. Relying on 1 set of cooldowns for ALL your damage needs in any mode where two sets are allowed is a major disadvantage no matter how you slice it.

With GS nerfed and Swords basically a joke, Hammer is doing alot of heavy lifting atm that even a deserved nerf is strongly felt. I'll go try Power Shortbow and see how it feels but not having GS in your pocket does feel extremely naked. 

[Angesombre.4630]

14 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

In all the years I've used hammer, damage never was an issue but all of the sudden it is. Surely that doesn't have to do with anything else it got mixed with right?

Implications aside. FotM hits too hard, the rest was always fine. Vindi over performs with Hammer (To no one surprise.) until they fix the real problems with it.

At the same time, going back to a single 1200-range weapon and a 2nd ranged weapon. If players don't have SotO, the choice for a vindicator remains just the hammer option. So there's nothing surprising in playing it.

[Shao.7236]

2 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

At the same time, going back to a single 1200-range weapon and a 2nd ranged weapon. If players don't have SotO, the choice for a vindicator remains just the hammer option. So there's nothing surprising in playing it.

 

The point is that Hammer was always good enough if played well and not overpowered. Aside Aegis, "nothing" has changed in terms of sustain, in terms of damage FotM is the only thing that really upped the ante with damage. DtH? Same thing, just takes less effort to use. CoR? Same thing, just takes less effort to use.

Vindicator will always be a problem until they simply remove the evade and make it the F2 ability instead, it's quite obvious instead of making it interesting they'll probably re-nerf Death Drop and clap their hands thinking they did a good job. The evade is the sole reason why Vindi is going down the drain and it will keep going down. They'll nerf WHATEVER they think they can BUT the real issue which is the mechanic itself.

Edited June 5 by Shao.7236

[Jobber.6348]

4 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

DtH? Same thing, just takes less effort to use.

I disagree on this. The decoupling from the full animation makes DTH an excellent disengaging tool as well as a fire and forget zoning tool. 

Despite doing no damage at all in competitive, it's still a well respected CC because it does 3s (2s in wvw) knockdown. Prior to the decoupling, anim locking yourself with DTH animation opens yourself up to getting attacked because the enemy can just walk it and continue pressuring you while you're stuck in that anim. With the anim decoupling along with the much faster windup, you can counter pressure your enemy as they are still playing the "avoid DTH" game. 
 

I think the best thing that happened to hammer is actually the anim decoupling of DTH. The autos can literally still be slow as heck but the hands-free DTH is what makes new hammer much more of a threat. 

Also agree on the dodge mechanic for Vindi. I'm sick of that one "feature" of the espec holding 4 traits hostage with its entirely 1 dimensional button nature. It's literally just extra button to press while being a Vindicator. No finesse, no strategy. Just press Evade. If it's too powerful, nerfed, then all your power is gone because too many eggs put into the evade basket during design.

I've always felt that Vindi should not have the evade attack on dodge but on Legend Swap/Alliance Swap instead. It's just thematically and functionally more interesting to give Revenants an Evade Attack when they swap Legends/Alliances, as if their current Legend left the field and the new one enters with an explosive entrance. Then rebalance it by reducing the Dodge Endurance of Vindicators by 1 since they can functionally "dodge" every 10s. 

[Buran.3796]

16 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I've always felt that Vindi should not have the evade attack on dodge but on Legend Swap/Alliance Swap instead. It's just thematically and functionally more interesting to give Revenants an Evade Attack when they swap Legends/Alliances, as if their current Legend left the field and the new one enters with an explosive entrance. Then rebalance it by reducing the Dodge Endurance of Vindicators by 1 since they can functionally "dodge" every 10s. 

  In betas Vindi had boons on evade, barrier + regen on evade or damage on evade; we had those choices. Once SotO was running  the damage on dodge was greatly nerfed, then barrier + heal trait was nerfed to nothingness and finally the boon trait was nerfed. At the end the heal/barrier and boon traits ended being so bad that no none uses them (outside OW PvE), so people came back to the damage trait and other players realized "omg Vindi is doing damage again, plz nerf!". 

  We have seen vigor gone from Vindi's traits, plus might and fury procs; boons of course last 0 seconds in PvP yet they also nerfed endurance adquisition in Vindi's traitline so you need to go Retribution to get it (which of course no one does since lasts 1 sec in PvP) so everyone is running 3 energy sigils (which is not a problem because most of sigils already do nothing in PvP). ANet also nerfed the whole mid pillar of Vindi's traits effectively erasing Song of Arboreum from PvP matches (again, doesn't matter since people got endurance from sigils).

  I don't known how you could further reduce dodge endurance in Vindicator since since currently the main source is outside the spec and profession, unless you revert the spec to a single evade (max 50 endurance) at which point I would just stop playing the game. 

   Some people dislike how Vindi interacts with dodges, I dislike how some classes interacts with stealth; just deal with it. Instead of butchering what works suggest developers to rework Herald and Renegade since both are entirely outdated in the modern GW2 PvP landscape.

[Shao.7236]

20 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I disagree on this. The decoupling from the full animation makes DTH an excellent disengaging tool as well as a fire and forget zoning tool. 

I would use it the same way switching from Shiro/Jalis + PT with Quickness or Stability because I could either or both at the same time use it faster without being interrupted. Likewise, sure it's got more going for it now without the need of anything which is why I mean it's less effort but then again I never agree'd that it was completely useless before unlike many, I found it's uses that worked for me. I think it's bigger change has to do with CoR reset which allows for more damage altogether.

It flows better, it's the most I can say, because I say it's less effort doesn't mean it's a bad thing tho, it's just the way it is.

 

[Jobber.6348]

3 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

I don't known how you could further reduce dodge endurance in Vindicator since since currently the main source is outside the spec and profession, unless you revert the spec to a single evade (max 50 endurance) at which point I would just stop playing the game. 

If you bothered reading my post at all you realize what I said (not even suggested) was pretty much a Vindicator reimagining which functionally changes how the class is played at all, so idk why you bothered replying to me at all with a whole essay on Vindicator's problems. I know the problems, it's just unrelated to how I feel Vindicator should have been designed.

But yes, buff Herald thanks. Either Buff Herald or revert Incensed Response. Or buff Incensed Response. You know what, I feel extremely discriminated against that we keep having Core traitlines and Legends nerfed due to Especs. Since the Espec was already nerfed, I want to see reverts and power put back into Core traitlines and Legends. 

 

 

[Buran.3796]

19 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

If you bothered reading my post at all you realize what I said (not even suggested) was pretty much a Vindicator reimagining which functionally 

  I'm afraid of touching things that work.

  Currently Vindi works in PvP, Herald and Renegade doesn't. If Vindi is remade it can work or not, but last time they made significative changes in Herald (pre  EoD release, Feb 2022) it fell from MATs for the next two years and half.  Dismantling Vindi has plenty of chances of removing it from PvP with no warranty of Herald or Renegade becoming side replacements. 

[Shao.7236]

20 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  I'm afraid of touching things that work.

  Currently Vindi works in PvP, Herald and Renegade doesn't. If Vindi is remade it can work or not, but last time they made significative changes in Herald (pre  EoD release, Feb 2022) it fell from MATs for the next two years and half.  Dismantling Vindi has plenty of chances of removing it from PvP with no warranty of Herald or Renegade becoming side replacements. 

Changing Tenacious Ruin to F2 is hardly reimagining. It certainly does change how annoying it is to fight in big way and would mean that it doesn't have to be so gutted.

This is all made obvious by how many nerfs Vindi has gotten and yet still is played by a majority, Anet has been beating around the bush, as matter of fact as it is.

Having something that can constantly deal damage with it's most basic sustain utility is terrible balance. People could think it's not a problem for Daredevil but at least Bound is a leap, there's other uses for something that deals damage without being mega damage, IE removing Aegis or Blind.

Vindi is straight up just damage, as everything else has been nerfed and nerfing that damage would make it's gimmick worthless hence why it belongs somewhere else that way it can be strong again, besides gimmicks for any elites have always been in the F keys utility, it's a balanced tradition that proves itself to work and at least in this case with Revenant shouldn't be strayed away from.

[Buran.3796]

  I just purchase Aurene's Weight for 2180 gold coins.

  I was guessing betwen crafting Sharur and Aurene's Weight; on one hand I don't love Sharur skin (plenty of nornal hammers and gem ones look better, IMO) but has the very rare property of casting mini-Sharurs with ranged attacks and those minis self project light around the environment which is a quite unique and cool feature that almost no other weapon does. On the other hand I liked some of the skins from the Jormag dragon and Aurene's was the  previous step.

   The thing is that I was a bit bored of farming G2 skins (I lready have The Shinning Blade, Astralaria and Eureka) and if at any time I do craft a focus, long bow or pistol the G2 would be my choices, so this time was slanted towards G3 for the hammer. The thing is: I would have to complete 2 of the maps (some hidden points of interest) and get 7 extra mastery points just to craft Aurene, and then  omplete a jumping puzzle which proved to be everything but fun in the past, so instead of crafting the hammer for 1.5k gold I said "f**k that crap" and just ordered directly.

   Currently I onl¡y use hammer in Rev in a PvP Vindi build which isn't my fav (even before the nerfs), bu so far this completes my legendary Revenant arsenal (on ground). Time will tell if the incoming spear has any use or becames another meme.

   Anyway, since there's not that much footage of Aurene's Weight in a Vindi build this is a short sample; I like the visuals overall but still prefer Jormag (but won't craf it anytime soon):

 

 

[arazoth.7290]

59 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  I just purchase Aurene's Weight for 2180 gold coins.

  I was guessing betwen crafting Sharur and Aurene's Weight; on one hand I don't love Sharur skin (plenty of nornal hammers and gem ones look better, IMO) but has the very rare property of casting mini-Sharurs with ranged attacks and those minis self project light around the environment which is a quite unique and cool feature that almost no other weapon does. On the other hand I liked some of the skins from the Jormag dragon and Aurene's was the  previous step.

   The thing is that I was a bit bored of farming G2 skins (I lready have The Shinning Blade, Astralaria and Eureka) and if at any time I do craft a focus, long bow or pistol the G2 would be my choices, so this time was slanted towards G3 for the hammer. The thing is: I would have to complete 2 of the maps (some hidden points of interest) and get 7 extra mastery points just to craft Aurene, and then  omplete a jumping puzzle which proved to be everything but fun in the past, so instead of crafting the hammer for 1.5k gold I said "f**k that crap" and just ordered directly.

   Currently I onl¡y use hammer in Rev in a PvP Vindi build which isn't my fav (even before the nerfs), bu so far this completes my legendary Revenant arsenal (on ground). Time will tell if the incoming spear has any use or becames another meme.

   Anyway, since there's not that much footage of Aurene's Weight in a Vindi build this is a short sample; I like the visuals overall but still prefer Jormag (but won't craf it anytime soon):

 

 

you don't need mastery points to craft it to get the place in EOD. At the beach is a place too for the vendor once you have this weapo' aquired. 

No need to waste time on these MP traitline

 

nvm it's late, I read it wrong. Thought you were talking to giving aurene a special colour of the options

Edited June 9 by arazoth.7290