Secrets of the Obscure: Looking Back and Forward

[Pyreo.8517]

I have lots of feelings about the expansion now that it's over and.... well, I know everyone's got their own opinions and wants them noticed, but I might as well add them on here.

I'm not usually a downer on the choices anet makes, I've enjoyed the game for 11 years, and sometimes I go 'well, that wasn't really for me' and move on. But SotO has left be sorely disappointed because it doesn't have anything that pulled me into GW2 in the first place. To condense those reasons as much as possible:

1. I preferred it when the world existed and continued spinning in the background, independent of the player. That was the original ethos behind the event chains in the launch maps. The way NPCs conduct sweeping events in Harathi Hinterlands or the war going on in Dredgehaunt, the cycles in Dry Top and Verdant Brink, and then Drizzlewood also running with that vibe - there's complete focus on the events and NPCs and what they need to do. They're getting on with it, whether you want to join in, or you're passing by and exploring, it's more of an open invitation through context.

In contrast ever since EoD I think, the NPCs have been reacting to player presence before they say their lines, and in SotO, just straight up yelling at you to help them do something. Even worse, you can't go 5 steps in Nayos without some overacted weird voice in your head AND your chat window, blithering with praise for THE Wayfinder!!!!! and begging you by name to do something, and it's absolutely awful. I hate this. It feels like the game is written for toddlers with zero attention span who need jingling keys every 8 seconds, instead of just allowing me to exist and look around. I was prepared to get into SotO as a bit of a reputation reset - to go back to being a novice with these wizards and then by extension, let the Kyrptis get to know me, but that didn't happen. Everyone everywhere knows you, reacts to you as if you're the only thing that matters, and yells praise at you for existing. It's like a parody of itself at this point.

I'm not here to be the focal point of every single NPC's lives. It's unnatural and honestly... nauseating. I can't exactly believe the Commander insisting they'd selflessly 'save the farm' when the game doesn't believe in quiet satisfaction any more and thinks I care about being told how amazing and gorgeous and incredible I am for just standing there. Stop, I'm begging you, literally begging, stop praising the Commander and wasting your voiced dialogue on 'make the player feel important', it's made me never want to be in Nayos at all.

2. The only thing that got an emotional reaction out of me in the story was Zojja, and I respect what they were going for with that. She'd gone through so much that she wanted to leave behind her trauma, and I can get that, y'know? Her still calling us Commander despite having amnesia absolutely got me. And I hope we get to see her new self even more in the future, now she has a new lease on who to be.

The rest of the story was so simple it felt insulting. If I could ask a question of the writers just once, it'd have to be... did you expect people to be invested in the foregone conclusion of defeating Eparch? Because the narrative had nothing else going on. And I am absolutely baffled by this decision, because my god, Guild Wars 2 villains can be amazing. Nobody has even just 'been evil'. The elder dragons were inherently corrupting the world around them and we still sort of respected them, got mind-dominated and had to resist Mordremoth, got tempted by Jormag, or realised Kralkatorrik was in horrible turmoil just as we finally defeated him... Joko got to be evil but funny, Balthazar turned out to be having an immature tantrum  at the very end, the arch-fascist Bangar was superceded by our close friend's own son. This has been done so well through the years and now... Eparch? He's evil. Oh what else, why are we invested? Well, he's very bad.

Not only that, the hard-hitting dialogue I'm used to was gone, and I used to feel like every voiced line on the golden path was workshopped, rehearsed, and weighed for its necessity. All I remember now about SotO's tail-end updates is Kryptis talking about military strategy (that didn't matter because it's not reflected in gameplay) while I zoned out. I didn't get the feeling a single Kryptis had some kind of life outside participating in an event or story instance, although you sure did... name them all, I guess. I didn't feel like the wizard characters had anywhere to develop to after their introductions, although I suppose you can try to intuit their backstories through stuff they say in metas...? That is if you're still listening after the 5 millionth "we have to try! we CAN do this! go, now, beat them back! hurry wayfinder! we have to try!" that blends together into a soup of incoherent forced urgency.

What happened to the people who wrote Path of Fire and Season 4, I'm guessing they're just gone through turnover now... this game has reflected such nuance and talent in the past that it makes me sad, and genuinely disappointed, to see how dumbed-down it's becoming. I used to say 'even the background map dialogue tells you so much about the world and characters in it!' but that's not true any more.

3. I gotta agree with what someone else mentioned already in this thread - the way anet seems to be referring to itself as a modest indie company learning the ropes of game dev as they go. It inherently lowers my confidence in them to be making excuses like that. The game's been up nearly 12 years and has proved itself in so many ways.... so why are we learning things like basic storytelling now? I understand they just restructured their release schedule, but still. Was the story actually 'too complex' to tell in your new style, because it didn't go much further than 'this guy is bad. let's kill him'. Peitha didn't doublecross us or anything, we didn't really get to know any kryptis as people, we got zojja's little arc, but no storylines for the wizard cast (although they still seem interesting in general). Mabon just said hello and died. The level of threat felt pretty low throughout because again, winning was a foregone conclusion, and we didn't get emotional stakes through the supporting cast. But anet should know this. This should be easy calls for a game that has such a proven record.

On the whole, I don't know if going into another dimension and fighting someone else's war feels right for this game. If I got really conspiracy-minded about it, it feels like some executive saw how successful FF14 is, pointed at it, and said 'do that', because going to other dimensions and saving everyone and then going home is their thing. Heck, even right now they're doing the same 'demon dimension where they all eat each other' thing. But we just finished 10 years of raising militias against gigantic ethereal dragons. I would've preferred something truly different, something to explore more variety in the world I'm already attached to. SotO kept trying to tell me the world had changed and Tyria was somehow threatened and I just don't... really believe that. Nor do I believe I played much of a part in it aside from being targeted by Peitha and vouching for her for some reason.

 

Anyway I cannot possibly offer criticism without also trying to balance it, so here's stuff I definitely like:

Zojja's sad new place in the world, and all her letters that revealed her emotional process along the way. The fractal islands in Skywatch and the ramifications of making all those people real - especially the dwarves! especially Zinn!! Isgarren himself and his disinterest in getting involved in everyone's problems just because he's powerful is great, I want to see more of him, he makes a great foil for the Commander. R'tchikk and Gladium were a delight (as long as R'tchikk wasn't doing the unending praise thing). Exploring all the little nooks and islands in Amnytas with flying mounts was rewarding. The Wizard's Vault is a really nice way to unlock worthwhile prizes while giving people reasons to engage in the wealth of historical gameplay. Taking a break from the established cast wasn't an inherently bad choice, because I am very curious to see what might have changed with all of them when we reunite. There are still plenty of pieces that could be interesting, I just want to trust that this game is still being made for... adults. GW2 at its best has deeply affected me and I don't want to lose that.

[voltaicbore.8012]

35 minutes ago, Pyreo.8517 said:

In contrast ever since EoD I think, the NPCs have been reacting to player presence before they say their lines, and in SotO, just straight up yelling at you to help them do something. Even worse, you can't go 5 steps in Nayos without some overacted weird voice in your head AND your chat window, blithering with praise for THE Wayfinder!!!!! and begging you by name to do something, and it's absolutely awful. I hate this. It feels like the game is written for toddlers with zero attention span who need jingling keys every 8 seconds, instead of just allowing me to exist and look around. I was prepared to get into SotO as a bit of a reputation reset - to go back to being a novice with these wizards and then by extension, let the Kyrptis get to know me, but that didn't happen. Everyone everywhere knows you, reacts to you as if you're the only thing that matters, and yells praise at you for existing. It's like a parody of itself at this point.

I'm not here to be the focal point of every single NPC's lives. It's unnatural and honestly... nauseating. I can't exactly believe the Commander insisting they'd selflessly 'save the farm' when the game doesn't believe in quiet satisfaction any more and thinks I care about being told how amazing and gorgeous and incredible I am for just standing there. Stop, I'm begging you, literally begging, stop praising the Commander and wasting your voiced dialogue on 'make the player feel important', it's made me never want to be in Nayos at all.

This is one of my greatest gripes/concerns with the direction of the game, one that doesn't look to be addressed at all thus far. Core Tyria excels at making Tyria feel like a world where the NPCs actually live and have agency, but increasingly Tyria has become a hollow movie set - nothing but a paper-thin backdrop for whatever the Commander/Poobah is up to. Continued focus on managing quantity of output gives me little hope that we'll ever get this quality back.

I'll keep playing as long as GW2 retains gameplay/mechanical interest for me, but it sure would be nice to get some narrative pull back into the mix.

[Infusion.7149]

As primarily a WvW player I spent some time thinking about this dev post. I think the contributions of the dev team to a casual WvW player's experience should not be undersold here, though for any form of organized play there leaves a lot to be changed (mostly with respect to boon removal). Hiding ally visual effects was a good change that was identified for PvE but also has a profound impact in WvW similar to prior culling revisions.

So here is what is missing from the post by Arenanet with respect to WvW:
* WvW (weekly) vendor Dugan added June 2023 (pre SotO)  Game updates/2023-06-06 - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
* August 2023 Wizards Vault introduction removed the veteran creature slayer daily from the game which is one of the best things to happen since so many people were eating up queue space afking to wait for the warg or other veterans
* Wizards Vault also added yak escort as requested numerous times in the WvW subforum
* Addition of 32 slot provision pack to outfitter
* Ability to change grandmaster mark boxes to grandmaster mark shards as of April 2024
* the presence of the keep stat reduction to make fights more even "fair" as of April 2024

Here are unintended downsides:
* The split of relics bonuses from runes punishes people without legendary runes before the update quite severely. Fortunately I had a legendary rune bound for the aquabreather but other people may need multiple relics for WvW templates now that rune of the monk is not the primary option for any firebrand or support spec
* Relic of the flock in general has been changed to apply barrier for the excess heal: this is disproportionately strong on firebrand due to the charge of the mantra heal (mantra of solace)
* November 2023/ February 2024 weapon proficiency update does not seem fully balanced for WvW to this day , most notably since power weapons were not quite available for scourges
* Minstrel boon-balling is effective due to the resurgence of scourge transfusion (especially with mercy relic), Illusion of Life, and the rallying of downstates in a slow / low spike damage environment brought about since 2020 competitive damage split : I would also seriously discuss this topic with the WvW community of whether rallying off enemy deaths should even exist
* Skills that do 5 things should always be less effective than skills that only do damage or healing, I remember in the past CMC or another balance dev stated there is a "power budget" so to speak , please attempt to stick to this ideal. A prime example of this is the new version of Serpent Siphon.
---> some of the most iconic WvW skills in the game do only one thing: "Stand your Ground" , Veil , Coalescence of Ruin (before it was gutted), temporal curtain (mesmer pull), Meteor Shower, Purge Gyro, Winds of Disenchantment, Stealth Gyro, etc. If the goal is for WvW to be more accessible for newer players and to have clear tells of what a skill does, it is in Arenanet's best interest to stick to the balance ideal of one primary function even if this seems to have gone out the window in PvE.
---> Note this concern is not well addressed in the June 25th preview which mostly focused on PvE/PvP , in fact it might make it worse since every tempest overload is providing group protection without using any trait selection
---> Minstrel blobs fighting each other is about as interesting as people beating each other with twigs while wearing full body armor. Most old time players will reminiscence of a time mobility and damage actually felt impactful (especially pre firebrand) and water fields meant something as opposed to standing still taking every form of damage.

* Defense credit is still quite hit or miss as reported numerous times since the introduction of WvW tiered scaling rewards

*  Mechanically speaking, rebuilding on structures at 50% was a horrible change overall (April 2024). There already have been numerous threads on this topic 

* Rewards-wise, putting the jumping puzzle on the weekly WvW list for the Wizard vault is just as bad as veteran creature daily

Edited June 3 by Infusion.7149

[multiwickingerhabich.9867]

What I already find shameful is the convergences when you make 100 almost that you only get the runes of the supreme storage once cheeky developer. A higher drop rate is a must.

[Ashantara.8731]

I am quite disappointed to see them repeat one of SotO's biggest mistakes: "Working toward something" rather than have it accessible on release day.

I am not going to work towards another armor set (or other cosmetic) when I don't know what the actual in-game implementation of it will look like. Obsidian Armor looked stunning in concept and awful in-game.

[Luthan.5236]

Personally I like "working towards something" though. Actually the main content in the game for me - while others like raids that I do not like. I guess as long as there is other stuff available for people that do not like the "working towards something" everyone can be happy? (And ignore the stuff they don't like just doing the stuff they like.)

[Ashantara.8731]

8 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Personally I like "working towards something" though.

 I never said I didn't. It's one of the key elements of every MMORPG after all.

What I said is that I am against working towards something unknown, something we can't inspect right away in order to learn what it will look like in-game. You are basically buying a pig in a poke (see Obsidian Armor skins).

Edited June 5 by Ashantara.8731

[MithranArkanere.8957]

With all the different kinds of demons, demonic creatures and creatures from the mists in the GW franchise like imps, nightmares, shadow army, stygians, fleshreavers, margonites, dryders, Dhuum's undead, torment creatures, tormented souls, and the like, using only Kriptis was a mistake, specially since most of them look like someone was chewing on them for a while. 
It made all the fights and encounters too samey.  
It would have made more sense if there was a few other types of demons here and there, some working with the kryptis, some against them, some indiscriminately attacking anything in sight.
Stygians look just like necromancer minions, so bringing them back to GW2 would be pretty easy. 

Having the shadow army back for Season 4 was great, but not using them again for anything else in the Mists is a waste. 

[Kera.3982]

Content aside, I was hesitant to purchase SotO due to the bad writing in EoD. The story in EoD was enough for me to resubscribe to WoW and purchase Dragonflight. I actually thought I was going to quit GW2 for good. After hearing about the Janthir Expansion, I gave the game one last try. Till today I still appreciate the fact I do not need to pay for a subscription fee and having the ability to convert gold into gems.

So with that, I purchased SotO which was going to be my last draw for GW2. To my surprise, the writing in the first few dialogues seem to be... good? Suddenly there was a male npc dialogue saying similarly to "My partner needs rest" and only to find it even more shocking that his partner is a... woman? Is ANet ok? I smiled throughout the way, not skipping any cutscenes. There weren't any MCU dialogues or bad humors from what I've experienced in the Expansion. Somehow ANet managed to pick themselves up from the nonsense that is EoD's dialogues and story, completely wiped everything and put in a generic demon hunting story... I definitely approve.

All that said, I recently purchased Janthir Wilds along with my purchase of SotO. Please ANet, whoever wrote SotO, make them write your future Expansions.

Edited June 22 by Kera.3982

[Astralporing.1957]

31 minutes ago, Kera.3982 said:

Content aside, I was hesitant to purchase SotO due to the bad writing in EoD. The story in EoD was enough for me to resubscribe to WoW and purchase Dragonflight. I actually thought I was going to quit GW2 for good. After hearing about the Janthir Expansion, I gave the game one last try. Till today I still appreciate the fact I do not need to pay for a subscription fee and having the ability to convert gold into gems.

So with that, I purchased SotO which was going to be my last draw for GW2. To my surprise, the writing in the first few dialogues seem to be... good? Suddenly there was a male npc dialogue saying similarly to "My partner needs rest" and only to find it even more shocking that his partner is a... woman? Is ANet ok? I smiled throughout the way, not skipping any cutscenes. There weren't any MCU dialogues or bad humors from what I've experienced in the Expansion. Somehow ANet managed to pick themselves up from the nonsense that is EoD's dialogues and story, completely wiped everything and put in a generic demon hunting story... I definitely approve.

All that said, I recently purchased Janthir Wilds along with my purchase of SotO. Please ANet, whoever wrote SotO, make them write your future Expansions.

Initial SotO storywise is decent. It's in patches when the story quality plummets down. If you call it a "generic demon hunting story", you obviously didn't get to those further parts yet, so i won't be spoiling them for you by saying anything more.

[Kera.3982]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Initial SotO storywise is decent. It's in patches when the story quality plummets down. If you call it a "generic demon hunting story", you obviously didn't get to those further parts yet, so i won't be spoiling them for you by saying anything more.

I don't need you to tell me how to feel or what I should say. This entire story plot is in fact a generic demon hunting story. Nothing more, nothing less. Unless you're saying its going to be as bad as EoD then by all means tell me. I have yet to see a character I dislike within the Expansion. Both dialogues and voice acting are just way better than what was previously shown in EoD.

[The Ghost.3087]

SOTO is the epitome of how NOT to design world bosses or instanced dungeons, in my honest opinion. All the world bosses introduced during the SOTO content, except for a few like Dreadwing, Demon Knight, Nourys, Heitor, and maybe Sorrow, are a total mess. Starting with Eparch and going down to Umbriel, each one of these bosses is terribly designed for players. There are way too many mechanics that overwhelm you and overlap, making the experience 80% to 90% failure (especially Lonely Tower, which has an astounding 99% failure rate). These designs are too punishing and this includes meta and instanced content like fractals.

Normal DPS in Fractals, Strikes, and other modes for casual players is around 23-24k, with very few exceptions reaching up to 30k, often requiring full legendary gear, sigils, accessories, etc and following a specific combo to the teeth to pull out, all that damage. Most casual players don’t focus on legendary items and usually have ascended gear, which doesn't allow for easy stat swapping that provides high damage. They also often lack infusions, which boost stats and agony resistance, and karmas that provide extra DPS. Developers need to understand that while veteran players are highly skilled, they rarely engage with content like Fractals. ANet should cater to the casual public for NM modes, with CMs being a tier above that, and LCMs for veteran players and hardcore gamers. Mixing these modes, as done with Lonely Tower, Eparch meta event, Convergence, etc., hurts the game and community by placing too much weight on casual players. Teapot, Mukluk, and other veteran players have mentioned this frequently, yet ANet seems to ignore their feedback.

The Obsidian Armour farm is way too demanding. The requirement for the first essence is 3,000, which is excessive. Reducing it to 1,500 or even 2,000 would still take time but wouldn’t become boring too quickly or make players feel overwhelmed and drained. The current requirement is 54,000 essence for all gear types combined, and you get about 10 essence per rift even with Mastery, which is another disappointment. Mastery should be more rewarding, around the amount earned with Motivation, instead of needing to buy or craft expensive items. While the expensive items should remain as possibility for more essence, they should give double the amount of the mastery, aka around 100 essence for the red one. I am certain you can use the same system for the other two essences, as well following the same scheme. Adding essence drops from meta events, open world events, etc., would make the process more manageable. Do note that it shouldn't be a reward you can pick but it should be standard one instead of a choice, like the 3 Rare Unidentified Gear drops which are rewarded for each meta daily within Horn of Maguna's maps. It’s shocking that Convergence, which is all about essence and rifts, doesn’t drop essence for gear after killing Kryptis but it is more like a meta reward at the end which is actually normal amount, a plus there after you unlock the mastery for more essence. Given the required amount, this should be the norm set by ANet.

However, I applaud the idea of obtaining armor through the open world. It was an excellent idea and much needed. If the armor design was as great as the raids, it would be even better. Hopefully, the new legendary spear is obtainable through the open world too, as it's the most enjoyable part of the game for many players.

I look forward to the day when Legendary Trinkets are obtainable in the same way, either through a new tier or alternative ways to obtain the necessary gifts/materials. The current system, locking trinkets behind raid content, shuts out many new players because raid groups often exclude them. ANet should offer alternative ways to make or obtain trinkets, similar to how they handled the Horn of Maguna (SOTO). This approach should apply to all legendary equipment, not just armor and weapons.

The Gift of Battle is another major item needing an alternative acquisition method. Why not make it obtainable through new open world meta events or public raids? Alternatively, making it tradeable on the market could work, provided it doesn’t cost 100+ gold. These changes would significantly improve the player experience.

Edited June 23 by The Ghost.3087

[multiwickingerhabich.9867]

How difficult? The PvE player doesn't need to do WWW or PvP. Anet should give it all to you, the PvE players who don't play WWW. I think it's fair that Anet sets it so high since you only do PvE permanently anyway.

Edited Tuesday at 04:38 PM by multiwickingerhabich.9867

[Vayne.8563]

On 6/23/2024 at 3:56 PM, The Ghost.3087 said:

SOTO is the epitome of how NOT to design world bosses or instanced dungeons, in my honest opinion. All the world bosses introduced during the SOTO content, except for a few like Dreadwing, Demon Knight, Nourys, Heitor, and maybe Sorrow, are a total mess. Starting with Eparch and going down to Umbriel, each one of these bosses is terribly designed for players. There are way too many mechanics that overwhelm you and overlap, making the experience 80% to 90% failure (especially Lonely Tower, which has an astounding 99% failure rate). These designs are too punishing and this includes meta and instanced content like fractals.

Normal DPS in Fractals, Strikes, and other modes for casual players is around 23-24k, with very few exceptions reaching up to 30k, often requiring full legendary gear, sigils, accessories, etc and following a specific combo to the teeth to pull out, all that damage. Most casual players don’t focus on legendary items and usually have ascended gear, which doesn't allow for easy stat swapping that provides high damage. They also often lack infusions, which boost stats and agony resistance, and karmas that provide extra DPS. Developers need to understand that while veteran players are highly skilled, they rarely engage with content like Fractals. ANet should cater to the casual public for NM modes, with CMs being a tier above that, and LCMs for veteran players and hardcore gamers. Mixing these modes, as done with Lonely Tower, Eparch meta event, Convergence, etc., hurts the game and community by placing too much weight on casual players. Teapot, Mukluk, and other veteran players have mentioned this frequently, yet ANet seems to ignore their feedback.

The Obsidian Armour farm is way too demanding. The requirement for the first essence is 3,000, which is excessive. Reducing it to 1,500 or even 2,000 would still take time but wouldn’t become boring too quickly or make players feel overwhelmed and drained. The current requirement is 54,000 essence for all gear types combined, and you get about 10 essence per rift even with Mastery, which is another disappointment. Mastery should be more rewarding, around the amount earned with Motivation, instead of needing to buy or craft expensive items. While the expensive items should remain as possibility for more essence, they should give double the amount of the mastery, aka around 100 essence for the red one. I am certain you can use the same system for the other two essences, as well following the same scheme. Adding essence drops from meta events, open world events, etc., would make the process more manageable. Do note that it shouldn't be a reward you can pick but it should be standard one instead of a choice, like the 3 Rare Unidentified Gear drops which are rewarded for each meta daily within Horn of Maguna's maps. It’s shocking that Convergence, which is all about essence and rifts, doesn’t drop essence for gear after killing Kryptis but it is more like a meta reward at the end which is actually normal amount, a plus there after you unlock the mastery for more essence. Given the required amount, this should be the norm set by ANet.

However, I applaud the idea of obtaining armor through the open world. It was an excellent idea and much needed. If the armor design was as great as the raids, it would be even better. Hopefully, the new legendary spear is obtainable through the open world too, as it's the most enjoyable part of the game for many players.

I look forward to the day when Legendary Trinkets are obtainable in the same way, either through a new tier or alternative ways to obtain the necessary gifts/materials. The current system, locking trinkets behind raid content, shuts out many new players because raid groups often exclude them. ANet should offer alternative ways to make or obtain trinkets, similar to how they handled the Horn of Maguna (SOTO). This approach should apply to all legendary equipment, not just armor and weapons.

The Gift of Battle is another major item needing an alternative acquisition method. Why not make it obtainable through new open world meta events or public raids? Alternatively, making it tradeable on the market could work, provided it doesn’t cost 100+ gold. These changes would significantly improve the player experience.

The lonely tower doesn't have a 99% failure rate, or if you can prove it does, I'd love to see some evidence. I've done it exactly six times and succeeded exactly six times. My wife has only failed it a couple of times but she's done it more than I have. DE failed more times than the Lonely Tower does and might still to this day, I suspect.

Complaining is fine. Making up stats, not so much.

[The Ghost.3087]

15 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The lonely tower doesn't have a 99% failure rate, or if you can prove it does, I'd love to see some evidence. I've done it exactly six times and succeeded exactly six times. My wife has only failed it a couple of times but she's done it more than I have. DE failed more times than the Lonely Tower does and might still to this day, I suspect.

Complaining is fine. Making up stats, not so much.

By exploring bugs, sure. You can call it 100% success why not. People speak louder than stats. And from what I can see, most of the groups always put (-100) when they are looking for group when it is a daily. That itself is 99% failure on the fractal part. Denying to do the fractal itself is a 100% failure. However, you look at it. And now if you come and tell me that is not truth, I would honestly ask are we playing the same game? 

Edited Friday at 05:52 PM by The Ghost.3087

[Vayne.8563]

4 hours ago, The Ghost.3087 said:

By exploring bugs, sure. You can call it 100% success why not. People speak louder than stats. And from what I can see, most of the groups always put (-100) when they are looking for group when it is a daily. That itself is 99% failure on the fractal part. Denying to do the fractal itself is a 100% failure. However, you look at it. And now if you come and tell me that is not truth, I would honestly ask are we playing the same game? 

I wish people would read more carefully. 

I'm not saying it's a great fractal. A fractal can be overtuned, which means that it's too hard, and still not be a bad fractal. It needs a little adjustment. Hyperbole doesn't help anyone. Not the people for it and not the people against it. Because when people make up numbers, it's just that, people making up numbers. When you say something has a 99% failure rate, I assume you're talking about pugs, and even then you've have to have tried it hundreds of times before you can to that conclusion to get enough data points. You don't have the failure rate, and thus, you don't have any idea what the actual percentage is.

Are you defending making up numbers?

If you had said, I don't like the fractal and I believe the vast majority of people find it too hard and think it takes to long, I wouldn't have responded. Those are, on the balance of probability true statements. But I'd prefer to traffic in fact and opinion than made up statistics.